Take-Two's profits down-blame Max Payne

[Scream]

Take Two had lower than expected earnings, and cite both the slip of Mafia for the consoles to 2nd quarter, and lower than expected earnings for Max Payne 2 as the major reasons.

Story...

[Mariamus]

I cant believe it! this had me rolling around with laughter!

[Mongorian]

uhh...have something against Max payne? Seriously, you can laugh now, but take two could decide to end the series right now if they want to.

[London_Midge]

I just read this, and I don't get it. I understand the game might not have sold in the same quanitities expected, but whose fault is that? Take Two doesn't come out and say it, but we're led to believe that the game didn't sell well because it was just a disappointing game. That simply isn't the case in the eyes of the reviewers or most of the people who have played it (save the complaints on length, which are justifiable). This is from the Gamespot page about MP2:

11-21-2003 Avault 5 / 5
10-27-2003 Game Rankings 97 / 100
10-24-2003 Game Zone 9.6 / 10
10-24-2003 Gaming Age 17 / 20
10-23-2003 Game Revolution 17 / 20
10-20-2003 Gamespy 5 / 5
10-17-2003 Games Domain 4.5 / 5
10-16-2003 IGN 9.4 / 10

The game reviewed through the roof, and even the length issues should have been suspected, considering the game was the same length as its predecessor. So shouldn't the blame lie with Take Two? Either they chose the wrong game to support, or didn't support it enough. If the devs made a good game, and the reviewers liked it, the gamers liked it, and it didn't sell, it's because not enough people knew about it, or the idea behind the game had outlived its prime. Both of those issues are the responsibility of the publisher, not the dev team.

*Shrug* My two cents.

[Mariamus]

I agree with Midge

And Mongorian, I don't have anything against Max Payne, quite the contrary, it's my very utmost favorite game ever

[Damien_Azreal]

The game reviewed through the roof, and even the length issues should have been suspected, considering the game was the same length as its predecessor. So shouldn't the blame lie with Take Two? Either they chose the wrong game to support, or didn't support it enough. If the devs made a good game, and the reviewers liked it, the gamers liked it, and it didn't sell, it's because not enough people knew about it, or the idea behind the game had outlived its prime. Both of those issues are the responsibility of the publisher, not the dev team.

*Shrug* My two cents.

A valid statement. Take-Two should have been trying to market the game to a wider crowd. Which they tried to do by releasing it on 4 platforms.

Mainly the people who were waiting for the game got it... the first Max Payne sold about as well as the sequal did. Take-Two just needs to take the blame that they didn't market such a great game properly.

[Mongorian]

I don't have anything against Max Payne, quite the contrary, it's my very utmost favorite game ever

Then I wouldn't laugh about this. If max payne isn't selling like take two wants it to, they won't make any more max payne games. As far as I know, they have that power since they own the franchise rights to max payne.

[Mariamus]

Well I don't want it to end but to blame their losses on the game is just idiotic. the game is great, it's their marketing of it that has sucked bad..

[Wamplet]

The "Fall" of Max Payne.

[0marTheZealot]

not really

The biggest fault with Max Payne 2 is that it's not really worth 50 dollars. I sure as hell didn't think so (which is why I bought it used-.-). Take 2 did a fine job marketing I thought, I saw commericals, magazine ads, even a billboard. The fact is that most people who didn't think 2 hours of repetetive gameplay was worth 50 bucks, myself included. Don't get me wrong, MP2 is a great game, it's simply not worth 50 bucks. That's what hurt the sales, IMO at least.

If you skip all the cutscenes and GN, the total gameplay is only a few hours at the most

[NetDisruptor]

They should have made it longer!
People waited for the reviews this time and didn't bother with it.

[Aegeri]

The game reviewed through the roof, and even the length issues should have been suspected, considering the game was the same length as its predecessor.

I read: Too short and didn't buy it.

Unreal 2 flopped for the same reason really.

Reviews don't seem to make success anymore, crap like Dues Ex 2 got good reviews, but has failed miserably sales wise (Console AND PC, TAKE THAT ION!). While some games didn't do very well review wise and have sold through the roof (Manhunt, which had average reviews, but has sold tons when I last looked).

I have two ideas for this: Reviewers are losing touch with how gamers are today buying games (IE why nobody is buying Dues Ex 2, even though reviewers like it), or they just don't really have a clue what makes good games today.

Any ideas? I haven't played Max Payne 2, I'd guess it would be fun, but the fact that is too short meant my $100 NZ won't be going near it.

[London_Midge]

Do you really think it's because the game is too short? This surprises me, as I have had this argument here before (where I swore I would never buy another game that was 10 hours or shorter in length, and have stuck to it so far), and was adamantly opposed by many of the forum members. To me, that is an hugely valid reason to not purchase a game, but from what I can tell (MP2 being the exception), I am in the minority with this viewpoint. All I hear is "Yeah, but it was 10 good hours. I'd rather have 10 good hours than 20 mediocre hours".

My response was usually "How about 25 good hours, like NOLF and DX gave us?", but that was generally ignored.

That said, it still doesn't change my point. MP2 was the same length as MP1, and if I knew that going into it, Take Two had to have known that as well. If they didn't, or they didn't see it as being a factor, then that would make the situation their own doing, at least in my opinion. Anyway, I cordially request you reread my subject heading.

[Aegeri]

Oh I did, but I think you're still right, sometimes the ravings of mad men are indeed true! A lot of people seemed to complain that the game was too short and not worth buying (including me, I don't know if you participated in that).

It would seem that gamers are sick of short, replayless games. They wants the MORE GAMEPLAY!!!1111

Heck, when even X-Box owners are complaining about the length of Dues Ex 2 for example, this is starting to become rather universal IMO.

[SpaceCow]

MP2 is just not as high quality a game as MP. MP was grand, but I grow weary of it even now, after only playing it twice, so having pretty much more of the same from MP2 is not too interesting to me as a person who has to smack down 100 bucks for this game.

Here's some flaws i could pick up from the demo and the movies of the game: That narrator in MP2 sounds weary and flat, the in game cutscenes are innefective, and in general, the game sort of fails to deliver anything new or interesting besides what's already there when it comes to the playing expirience.

Also, reviewers are idiots and most people still buy games based on word of mouth rather then what they read on www.gamesinmyshitass.com .

I dunno, I didn't play the whole game, and maybe the demo really doesn't show the game in the best light, but even if the demo shows the absolutely worst point in the game, there's no way that it would rise high enough above that for me to care.

I'm confused here! Did the PC version of Max Payne sell poorly or the console version sold poorly? Or is Take Two looking at Max Payne in one view point(for all platforms)?

[Hudson]

I told you! They changed the face and the outlook of the main character!

/me hides

Seriously though, We went from a 20-something smartass on-the-edge badass with a thirst for blood to some old geezer with watered down attitude and a taste for bad suits.

Think about it once

[Kalki]

Max Payne 2 was what I wanted MP 1 to be. They fixed everything. The self-parody was a bit overdone and the novelty had worn off since the first one but it was an awesome game. Maybe it was the console versions that didn't sell.

Well atleast they decided to stfu and not bring up Duke Nukem Forever. Phew!

[DLT]

uhh...have something against Max payne? Seriously, you can laugh now, but take two could decide to end the series right now if they want to.

Good I dont want anymore max games lets just let the franchise go out on a high and not be butched like the tomb raider games.

[Scream]

I was interested to see what people would say about this. Personally, from the reviews I read on Max Payne 2, there didn't seem to be enough to distinguish it from the original. While I thought the first one was a "good" (i.e. not "great") game, I guess there wasn't enough gas in it to make me want to pay for more of the same.

I am not saying that was the opinion of most gamers. The game could be selling less than expected for any number of reasons (maybe the whole "film noir love story" box art killed it, who knows?). This is simply the reason I didn't bother with it. I may pick it up once the price drops to half of what it was released at.

[Drazula]

Guys,

It's all about sales, not how good a game is. By itself, MP2 is a great game. However side-by-side with the original there was not too much that was new. It was something that was seen before.

And I think the biggest reason it had sales problems is the "fool me once" too-damn-short problem. People can overlook a game that is too short, if it is something they haven't seen before. But that will not work with gameplay everyone has seen before, even if it is more polished.

Remedy should have learned from the first time. They didn't.

[mysteryperfecta]

I'm going to blame it on the game's length as well (and no multiplayer). Despite a favorable opinion of the MP, many felt burned by the game's length. When reviews of MP2 told of the sequel's similiar length (or shorter, as was my experience) for more-of-the-same gameplay, they decided to pass.

The length of MP2 is even more important in respect to the consoles. If you rented a game and was able to complete it over the weekend, why would you go buy it? Especially with no multiplayer?

[Kronx]

As a die-hard casual gamer I probably represent a good segment of the target gaming population. The original MP just didn't appeal to me. I'd pick up the box from time to time, but I never bought it until I found it in the bargain bin.

When I fired up MP, I found the graphic novel style interesting for about 10 seconds. Then I just felt blah about it. The whole dark, anti-hero vibe just doesn't do it for me anymore.

The beginning was pretty cool. I thought it was well done and the eventual nightmarish revisits are well done as well. These parts really shined.

I enjoyed the game for a while, but eventually I got bored. Though the gameplay was pretty decent, I found the steady stream of gunfire to get tiresome. I think I switched into god mode on the parking deck.

I'm not knocking the original MP. It had some pretty cool moments. However when MP2 came out, I felt no urge to play it. I don' t think it changed enough from the original to peak my interest.

[MikePatton]

when i saw this thread first thing that came at my mind was: WHO PHUCKING CARES?

[Superczar]

I'll add *THE* quote (sorry I forgot who originated it!):

"Take Two needs to STFU in my opinion", f***'em, they get no pity from me... unless they actually were in the red or will be in the red at the end of their fiscal year (hey that's business, it happens to our family business as well), then they will probably still make a few million AT LEAST... and probably already have...

[Hudson]

when i saw this thread first thing that came at my mind was: WHO PHUCKING CARES?

Take-Two apparently

[Hudson]

I'll add *THE* quote (sorry I forgot who originated it!):

"Take Two needs to STFU in my opinion", f***'em, they get no pity from me... unless they actually were in the red or will be in the red at the end of their fiscal year (hey that's business, it happens to our family business as well), then they will probably still make a few million AT LEAST... and probably already have...

I believe *THE* quote came from the very huggable George B.

[Superczar]

Haha, yeah I think that's right now that you mention it Hudson...

[X-Vector]

Well atleast they decided to stfu and not bring up Duke Nukem Forever.

There is no reason to bring up an unreleased game when you're discussing sales figures, "STFU-ing" has nothing to do with it.

Contrary to what is suggested in this thread, I don't see T2 putting blame on Remedy and/or 3DR.
They simply provided a number of reasons for less-than-stellar financial results, of which the apparantly disappointing sell-through of MP2 is one; where is the mud-slinging?

As for MP2, I agree with the general argument that Scream and Drazula have put forward - in my view the game is simply too objectionally MOTS to be interesting.
The original was a nice game that offered some exciting moments, but the MP2 demo just left me cold.

[KaiserSoze]

/me grabs popcorn.


i sense a disturbance in the force.

new beginnings i possibly see.

[Ivan]

The "Fall" of Max Payne.

ROFLMAO! I bet it was all planned. The title with this problem. Remedy you should release the bones, this way you will make more money! I think that, that is temporairy.

[Hudson]

ROFLMAO! I bet it was all planned. The title with this problem. Remedy you should release the bones, this way you will make more money! I think that, that is temporairy.

Hmm.. possible. Just look at Duke Nukem Forever...

Heh, sorry guys! Had to!!

/me ducks

[FireFly]

Perhaps it also had something to do with the fact MP2 was marketed as a more sophisticated, adult game, instead of just another 'mainstream' blast fest.

Just how many gamers were actually interested in this new "love story" dimension?

[Beelze]

^ I dunno how many - I like it though.

[Claws]

Well, no surprise here. MP2 felt like a rushed sequel, absolutely nothing innovative about it and the novelty of bullet time had worn off a loong time ago. I even posted on the MP forum a couple of times during its development warning Remedy, telling them about needing new features to replace the novelty of bullet time... Of course they won't listen, I'm just one potential customer, who cares right?

[Simon Charles]

Max Payne 2 is an excellent game; every bit as good as the first one. It didn't sell as much as exepcted? Ask the gamers why they didn't buy it. More specifically, ask why those who knew about MP2 and were planning to buy it didn't.

My personnal answer: too expensive. The price tag here is still 80$ CDN. I'm not going to pay that much for a game with 10-15 hours of gameplay. If this is becoming the norm, then I'm afraid my gaming days will come to an end.

[Ivan]

I think it didn't sell a lot, cause P2P are becomming too popular and same thing as warez sites.. and you can get it free from there. I payed $70CDN my copy and the other day my friend had just took it down from kazaa.. I wanted to kick his ass so hard! Anyway I was happy of my purchase!

[Nessus]

Part of the reason was a failure to generate hype and buzz right before release. With the exception of this site I didnt see any info on Max2 in the media until it was just about out.

[DLT]

I think it didn't sell a lot, cause P2P are becomming too popular and same thing as warez sites.. and you can get it free from there. I payed $70CDN my copy and the other day my friend had just took it down from kazaa.. I wanted to kick his ass so hard! Anyway I was happy of my purchase!

If that was the case how come other games sell millions of copys surely they can be downloaded as well.

[Ivan]

If that was the case how come other games sell millions of copys surely they can be downloaded as well.

Cause they are unbrakable.. and you can't burn them?