ROTT source code

I was just wondering... I heard a rumor that 3D Realms had finally found the source code to ROTT, and they were considering releasing it. Is this true? If so, I'd like to say on behalf of many of my fellow tweakers, PLEASE RELEASE IT! The Doom community thrives on the released source. And hey, let's face it, your a superior company. *grins*(hey, brown-nosing never hurt anybody)

[Dukefan]

Joe has the long-lost source code now, but he's stated that they don't plan on releasing it.

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-Dukefan
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[Goomba]

"Not gonna happen"

*gasps for air*
Any word as to why? I mean, it has little or no market value, they wouldn't be losing anything on it, and it would improve public relations. From what I'm seeing, it would be a win/win situation if they release it. The ONLY thing that would be usable in a sequel would be any code having to do with the storyline--and even THAT would be pushing it.
I would urge Joe to re-consider his decision. Please think of the many fans of ROTT who would love to be able to make mods for it. I, myself, was beginning to consider making a TC for Quake III that would play somewhat like ROTT, but it wouldn't be the same.
I would like to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to read over this simple plea. It isn't any great thing that we ask of the company we have all come to respect. I wish you luck in the days ahead, and may fortune smile upon your name. With gratitude,
Andrew Jones

[Delphi Dude]

1. It's not Joe's decision. Such decisions are made by management (ie Scott and George).

2. Their stance is "we're not interested in doing that".

3. That's the only answer you'll ever get. Joe will tell you the same thing.

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[X-human]

Actually... It's not so simple as tossing it out in a zip file.

Much of the code would need cleaning up. John Carmack spent MUCH time on the Wolf3D, DOOM & Quake source codes when he was going to release them. 3D Realms used code from Wolf3D, and would have to consult id Software about releasing the code. They would also have to have someone spend time working on the code again, making sure it includes all the shit you need and so on and so forth. They are making DNF right now. They don't have the time to release something like this. Plus, I don't know if they even have anyone still there who worked on the code, someone would have the learn the entire engine all over again to do this. It's just not praticle to spend all this time and energy on it. The have meatier fish to fry.

If they released the ROTT source code as is, I don't think it'd even compile if you have the right compiler. After DNF is released the programers will be patching it up for awhile, then they'd work on playing with engines for the next game. There just isn't time. Face it, John Carmack has no life and is a master code wizard. Companies' groups of programers can't compete with his new engines, none-the-less his goofing around with source-codes and platforms.

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"Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the world, I can't help but cry. I mean I'd love to be skinny like that, but not withall those flies and death and stuff." - Mariah Carey

I think you over-estimate just how much they would haved to retouch the code. Getting permission from Id Software would be easy, due to the fact that they've already released Wolf3D's source. Besides, if time's the issue, here's what we could do:
E-mail me a copy. I have plenty of time on my hands, I'll touch it up for you... for FREE. Now, Is there any LOGICAL reason to refuse somebody willing to work for you for free, on a project that isn't time-sensitive at all?

[Crosma]

The code shouldn't need to be changed at all. As long as it still compiles. If it doesn't compile then it's not the original source.

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[Matteus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crosma:
The code shouldn't need to be changed at all. As long as it still compiles. If it doesn't compile then it's not the original source.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not totally true.

Do you have Watcom 8.5? (or whatever was used to compile ROTT)

No. Then you can't compile it either.

And since Watcom is no longer distributed, and the particular version you'd need to compile hasn't been available for 5 years or so, almost nobody would be able to compile.

In fact, it's likely that even 3D Realms doesn't still have a copy of all the tools needed to compile the source.



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Matt Saettler
-The Last Person on Earth who can compile Duke(TM)

He's gotcha on that one =)
However, if the code was even CLOSE to resembling ANSI C++, then it wouldn't be too hard to port. The only thing I'd have to work on would be the sound, network, and graphics display (which I was going to port to OpenGL anyway once they released it =).
Now, let's say I port it over to, say, DJGPP. The Allegro library includes support for all of those things. Or even Visual C++, you could use DirectX. Trust me, if you wanted to find somebody willing to work on ONLY the port, you could probably pick anybody with some experience in programming on these boards, and they would jump at the chance. I know I would. Heck, I'd accept a position at 3DR to only work on that project for pennies per hour =)
Another thing you could do, though, is just release the source code as is. Loyal fans of the game would port it for you. Anybody who would be willing to wade through the code to make some mod would also be willing to convert it over to whatever compiler they were using.

[Goomba]

Again, it's not gonna happen. period. Move on.

I believe that it can be replicated and/or hacked from a single copy of ROTT.

[edit]Better yet, a similar source code could be written from scratch![/edit]

[This message has been edited by Commander Khaine (edited 08-22-2000).]

Korihor said:
Another thing you could do, though, is just release the source code as is. Loyal fans of the game would port it for you. Anybody who would be willing to wade through the code to make some mod would also be willing to convert it over to whatever compiler they were using.

I would be ready, willing and able to tidy up the source as required.

Tony

[Volte]

Why don't you guys drop this? Joe has repeatedly said that their not releasing it.

[TerminX]

Yeah, Mark Dochtermann is really cool about source code.


-TX
::Goes off and compiles Duke3D setup::

3dR didn't found the code, it was much more comfortable for them the situation of the code missing. I raised som dust by asking Mark Dochterman (ROTT's lead programmer) about it, and he came with the missing code, 3dR didn't like that news at all.
I don't really know what use releasing the code will bring, but I surly know that 3dR will not release it, for 1 reason, and that is that they don't have a source code release policy. simple as that. You have one company that release source code, and that's Id. 3dR never released anything, and will not start doing it now. It's not a question of what will we do with it (ppl have no problem with DOOM or the much older Wolf3d), or about whoever will "clean" it (Mark Dochterman said he'd do it). It's a question of what will 3dR do with their property. and releasing it is not what they do.

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"It wasn't supposed to turn out like this.." (Sebastian "Doyle" Krist)
ROTT2: Return Of The Triad

Our wines leave you nothing to hope for (misunderstandabilationist)

*sighs* well, if that's the case, guess I'll have to hack up quake's source to something similiar =) Too bad, too... ROTT really was fun. To answer the question posted before:

With the source code, we would no longer be restrained to making nothing more than graphical changes to the game. We could truly personalize it to how we liked it.

[TerminX]

You wouldn't really have to modify the Quake source at all to recreate ROTT in it, I believe that Quake C is enough.

-TX

true, you COULD just do a graphics swap thing, but wouldn't it be a LOT better if you could actually load up the old files in quake? I'm working on it right now... it'll involve a lot of changing around, and going to using the quake's source for nothing more than a husk =)

I'd be very surprised if you could use the Quake source to any great effectiveness with the old ROTT RTL/WAD files. They just aren't compatible at all really.

A better approach might be to write a utility to convert old ROTT levels to Quake levels. This is something I looked at when looking into my own ROTT2 engine, but I was looking at converting ROTT levels into Doom levels which is a much easier task.

Tony

What I was thinking of doing was instead of Quake's engine loading up polygons, it would load a set of tiles. These tiles would be placed into the .pak files for quake. That sounded weird, lemme try an example:

Quake finds the map file, and loads in the header information. It then loads in the 3 2d maps of tiles. It checks the .wad file for the tiles called for, and places them on the map accordingly.

Of course, I'd have to convert all of the graphics into 3d objects. *sighs* time to tidy up on my modeling and skinning skills =)

The BUILD engine would probably be best for recreating ROTT.

[Draco]

Wouldn't it be hillarious if someone did have Watcom 8.5 or whatever?

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The poster of this message cannot be liable for any individuals acting irrational over the words presented in the above post nor can he be held accountable for those who act irrational due to the poster himself. The poster wishes personally wish to apologize for them, and forgive them for their weaknesses.
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"I've noticed that Draco isnt the one who starts flames but the general UBB populous jumping on him for having an opinion seperate from yours." - Logic Bomb

[X-human]

The BUILD source that was released is even older than the ROTT code. DOOM portation is much more praticle.

Some 3D stuff has been implemented in BUILD though, it's lookin' pretty good.

You really don't need Watcom 8.5, if you're good. You can convert.

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X-human.net, GZNews, EdgeGaming.com, 3D Realms Bulletin Board Fan Site Chick of the Week (Anna Kournikova), Dopefish Cult, BJ's Hideout and Black Death

"Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the world, I can't help but cry. I mean I'd love to be skinny like that, but not withall those flies and death and stuff." - Mariah Carey

[TerminX]

The build source that was released was updated up until the release. Its very current.


-TX

[Theseus314]

"Wouldn't it be hillarious if someone did have Watcom 8.5 or whatever?"

I do, ages ago some people learned it at my school. A while ago old coputer parts were auctioned. I bought lots of 512mb HD's, a few had Watcom on. I have a copy saved, but don't use it.