Take Two Sues 3D Realms

[bobthefish]

take 2 is a moronic company. stupid idiots. how can they feel good about that? they could have jsut given 3DR the money they needed to finish it and this never would have been a problem.

[IHerman]

Originally Posted by bobthefish

take 2 is a moronic company. stupid idiots. how can they feel good about that? they could have jsut given 3DR the money they needed to finish it and this never would have been a problem.

3DR doesn't deliver in 12 years. Do you think it's wise to invest millions in such an epic failure?

Take-Two is suing and I can't honestly say I can blame them. 3DR screwed up badly, nobody can deny that.

I really really hope this all works out and we see DNF in the stores someday. The current stuff you can find all over the net looks good.

There's still a part of me that wishes this is all a huge viral campaign but I think it does 3DR more damage than good by now.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by Candyman

For God's shake we do not even know if the game will be released or not some day. All i want to hear is something like "DnF is dead!" or "DnF will continue developing" from him.
That's all... It has nothing to do with release dates or anything. I want to know this simple thing. Am i asking so much?

Fair enough. We certainly are in limbo over the whole thing and while things don't look good now, obviously it's kept us in the dark as to what comes next (if anything). But as I said in the post before the last, I doubt that his decision not to make a statement is one out of disdain for the fans. Again, given that he is now facing legal proceedings with T2, the future is even more uncertain than it was a week ago. Maybe he just really doesn't know.

Think of it this way:

1) He still has a product he wants to sell

2) He no longer has a developing firm or a distributor

3) He does have people who would pay a fortune (like 20 mil +) for the developing rights to DNF

4) He's now looking down the barrel of a civil action which suspends any further work or release of DNF related media

With those four things in mind, anything is possible. Who knows, maybe his lawyers have now advised not to make any comment? I don't know. But, given everything i've just discussed, if any of the silence has amounted to a form of disrespect amongst the fanbase, I doubt he's getting any joy out of it. As a businessman, his hands are tied and he's shit scared. That's enough to make anyone crawl beneath a rock.

Originally Posted by Caine

how did he respect the fans? with some tidbits, silence and just big talk? no product in 12 years?

See the last couple of posts of mine above. Sure, this can result in a perception of disrespect to the fanbase, but George's secrecy on the project stems from what he felt was a viable business move more than a lust to give his following the middle finger. Whether or not this was a viable business move is another discussion...but if you want my opinion: no, over the course of 12 years, something has to give and as a result, the ultimate price has been paid and may continue to be.

[Mountain Man]

Originally Posted by Drazula

Since I have no clue who you are talking about or what happened with Hellgate...

It's a long story, but the short version is that Bill Roper claimed that Hellgate: London was going to be the spiritual successor of Diablo II and then released a beta quality product that was broken, poorly supported, and almost entirely failed to live up to any of the hype he had spent the previous couple of years generating. The company folded and the North American servers were taken offline less than 12-months after their debut title was released. Oh, but not before collecting thousands of dollars in monthly subscriptions for products and services that never materialized.

(More here if you're interested.)

People thought Bill Roper was finished and that he'd never work on another game again, but that wasn't the case.

You might be right that the failure of Duke Nukem Forever is a bigger deal, but you don't get much more high-profile than Bill Roper whose name is attached to some of the most successful games in the industry including WarCraft 1, 2 and 3, Diablo 1 and 2, and StarCraft. The biggest difference between Roper and GB is that GB didn't rip off thousands of fans around the world before closing up shop.

[X-Vector]

I'd say the biggest difference is in the "whose name is attached to some of the most successful games in the industry" bit.

[Ayfel]

Hi, I´m not exactly new, I´ve posted before and checked the forums for a long time but lost my account data. Anyway. What about this?

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/fe...p/68924/?biz=1

So he was offered $80mill and now he was willing to sell the IP for only $30 , that sounds weird to me....

[ash678]

george showed take 2 the game earlier in the year. maybe take 2 was pissed with how it wasnt finished ?

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by IHerman

3DR doesn't deliver in 12 years. Do you think it's wise to invest millions in such an epic failure?

Take-Two is suing and I can't honestly say I can blame them. 3DR screwed up badly, nobody can deny that.

I really really hope this all works out and we see DNF in the stores someday. The current stuff you can find all over the net looks good.

There's still a part of me that wishes this is all a huge viral campaign but I think it does 3DR more damage than good by now.

3DR screwed up? How? Because theyve been making a product for awhile?

Without seeing the final product, we dont know if they FAILED or screwed up. They made a promise to which I havent seen the result, imo, they havent failed

[SplatterHappy]

A wild thought just occurred to me: What if 3DR closed the doors because they'd already been contacted by Take Two's lawyers prior to the lawsuit being filed. Perhaps that law firm sought a settlement (involving the game assets and/or IP rights) prior to ever filing the lawsuit?

It would explain the sudden closure. Food for thought anyway.

[Derfernet]

Originally Posted by SplatterHappy

A wild thought just occurred to me: What if 3DR closed the doors because they'd already been contacted by Take Two's lawyers prior to the lawsuit being filed. Perhaps that law firm sought a settlement (involving the game assets and/or IP rights) prior to ever filing the lawsuit?

It would explain the sudden closure. Food for thought anyway.

It's been posited before and imo it seems probable: it would also mean "no more funds" would fit in too seeing as they probably couldn't afford a lawsuit.

[Altered Reality]

It's funny that George could keep going to work and living the life for 12 years without delivering anything. I have a lot of admiration for him actually.

You are admiring a man who ran a fine company right into the fux0ring ground. Thanks to whom many people are now unemployed.

[Rösti]

Was it the 4th of June that judicial procedure in Manhattan court was going to be?

[Mikko Sandt]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

3DR screwed up? How? Because theyve been making a product for awhile?

Ah, the power of denial.

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by Mikko Sandt

Ah, the power of denial.

Its not denial dude, Hybrid motors were actually available in the 90s, about 15 years later we can actually buy them

If a company wants to take its time making something thats their business, thats their money

Why do you think you have any right to tell them to hurry up

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

You are admiring a man who ran a fine company right into the fux0ring ground. Thanks to whom many people are now unemployed.

WTF

Again, it was THEIR OWN MONEY

He can do whatever he wants

We saw examples of the work, it was great so there was plenty going on

[Mikko Sandt]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

Its not denial dude, Hybrid motors were actually available in the 90s, about 15 years later we can actually buy them

If a company wants to take its time making something thats their business, thats their money

It is my bet 3DR never intended to go bust but to make a lot of money with DNF. They failed.

In every sense of the word they failed.

Why do you think you have any right to tell them to hurry up

?

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

Its not denial dude, Hybrid motors were actually available in the 90s, about 15 years later we can actually buy them

If a company wants to take its time making something thats their business, thats their money

Why do you think you have any right to tell them to hurry up

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------



WTF

Again, it was THEIR OWN MONEY

He can do whatever he wants

We saw examples of the work, it was great so there was plenty going on

The reason the hybrids were not available was because Oil companies felt threatened by them and started bribing politicians to either get rid of them or slow down production anyway they can. Walk in front of a judge and tell him it's your own money and you can do whatever when your charged with possesion of cocaine, I beleive he will call you an idiot and put you in the jail where the rapes are 10 times a day for each inmate.

[Jiminator]

lol, imagine if AMD announced that they were going to make the most awesome processor ever, and they kept designing for 12 years, but produced no actual product....

[Blue Lightning]

I wish George would come out and make a statment here on the forums. I know he reads the forums, I would like to see what he says about all of this. He hasnt said anyting at all in his own defense.

George, give me a quicky interview!

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by Mikko Sandt

It is my bet 3DR never intended to go bust but to make a lot of money with DNF. They failed.

In every sense of the word they failed.



?

This is a literal statment, not being able to afford staff isnt going bust, the United States has lost millions of jobs in the last year, do you consider your country a failure? Until 3drealms SHUTS down, lights out, no physical office location, they are not bust

---------- Post added at 02:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:38 PM ----------

Originally Posted by prophecy holder

The reason the hybrids were not available was because Oil companies felt threatened by them and started bribing politicians to either get rid of them or slow down production anyway they can. Walk in front of a judge and tell him it's your own money and you can do whatever when your charged with possesion of cocaine, I beleive he will call you an idiot and put you in the jail where the rapes are 10 times a day for each inmate.

Hybrids didnt come out for a number of reason, some posted above, others come down to needing money as well, a hybrid doesnt burn through parts as bad as a gasoline motor.

In regards to my comment about the drugs and hookers, ill change that

If I woke up each day and spent my pay checks gambling it away KNOWING i was a total unlucky bastard, thats my loss, but its mine, my money my loss, can I come to your home and tell you that you cannot pay for the internet anymore

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Jiminator

lol, imagine if AMD announced that they were going to make the most awesome processor ever, and they kept designing for 12 years, but produced no actual product....

No isntead theyve brought out how many shitty CPUs that cant even compete with the intel procs? Hoping the old amd fans would buy amd knowing they were ******* them over even at the dollar to performance ratio

---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Blue Lightning

I wish George would come out and make a statment here on the forums. I know he reads the forums, I would like to see what he says about all of this. He hasnt said anyting at all in his own defense.

George, give me a quicky interview!

They will be making a statement, just wait for it. Now not only do they have to comment on the layoffs, they need to comment on what happend, and the court shit

[ryche]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

Until 3drealms SHUTS down, lights out, no physical office location, they are not bust[

Isn't that what happened?

[Mikko Sandt]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

This is a literal statment, not being able to afford staff isnt going bust, the United States has lost millions of jobs in the last year, do you consider your country a failure? Until 3drealms SHUTS down, lights out, no physical office location, they are not bust

Ooh, nitpicking!

With the kind of relativism you're throwing around, you might as well argue that war is peace.

Edit: By your logic an individual who ends up being a bum hasn't actually failed since he was only using his own resources the way he saw fit. You may argue that he intended to become a bum but I doubt 3DR intended to be where they're now.

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by ryche

Isn't that what happened?

Nope, because George, Scott and the office manager are still there

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Mikko Sandt

Ooh, nitpicking!

With the kind of relativism you're throwing around, you might as well argue that war is peace.

Edit: By your logic an individual who ends up being a bum hasn't actually failed since he was only using his own resources the way he saw fit. You may argue that he intended to become a bum but I doubt 3DR intended to be where they're now.

To say a business failed you cannot base it on a product not getting delivered.

1.) They will have an income
2.) Last I checked there are still three employees of the company
3.) Still maintain a physical office location

BTW, microsoft laid 5k off, to me 20/27 people vs 5000, then by your logic microsoft has failed

Also, any company to have only spent 7.5 MILLION in 10 years in dev costs of a product in my book is consdered a well managed and well balanced company

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by Mikko Sandt

With the kind of relativism you're throwing around, you might as well argue that war is peace.

Grandpa simpson: I cleaned up all my best war stories for her. I was just telling her how we chased the teddy bears into their cuddle bunkers, then had to tickle them out with machine hugs and fun throwers! They say the more soldiers you tickle, the easier it gets. Well, sir, it doesn't.

[Derfernet]

Originally Posted by Rösti

Was it the 4th of June that judicial procedure in Manhattan court was going to be?

Ya, you can look it up on http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASMain

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webc...ate=06/04/2009

[Mikko Sandt]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

To say a business failed you cannot base it on a product not getting delivered.

You initially argued that it cannot be argued that 3DR "screwed up". Now you're nitpicking about the exact definition of a business failure.

BTW, microsoft laid 5k off, to me 20/27 people vs 5000, then by your logic microsoft has failed

A good comparison, considering how Microsoft and 3DR are of similar size and all.

[ryche]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

Nope, because George, Scott and the office manager are still there

Oh ok, yeah that so makes a difference

[SplatterHappy]

Originally Posted by SplatterHappy

A wild thought just occurred to me: What if 3DR closed the doors because they'd already been contacted by Take Two's lawyers prior to the lawsuit being filed. Perhaps that law firm sought a settlement (involving the game assets and/or IP rights) prior to ever filing the lawsuit?

It would explain the sudden closure. Food for thought anyway.

Originally Posted by Derfernet

It's been posited before and imo it seems probable: it would also mean "no more funds" would fit in too seeing as they probably couldn't afford a lawsuit.

Or perhaps couldn't afford to keep operating and still have the funds to fight this lawsuit (which, by everything I've read, is asking for nothing less than copies of all the assets to the game to be delivered into Take Two's hands even BEFORE the case is deliberated for "safekeeping").

[Evil Angel]

Man you guys love bitching about technicalites. Bottom line. They are a game developer that hasn't internally developed a game to it's conclusion for 13 years. But they have been involved in and seen other projects through with Prey, Max Payne the licensing of Apogee and D3D for XBOX Live etc.

Success, failure. It's all relative.

[Candyman]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

Its not denial dude, Hybrid motors were actually available in the 90s, about 15 years later we can actually buy them

If a company wants to take its time making something thats their business, thats their money

Why do you think you have any right to tell them to hurry up

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------



WTF

Again, it was THEIR OWN MONEY

He can do whatever he wants

We saw examples of the work, it was great so there was plenty going on

So i guess even if it takes a million years to produce DNF, you are okay with it?
I mean first the civilization will seize to exist, and after that, DNF will be released!

We've been waiting for thirteen f****g years! So i think you can stop giving free advice to all of us here. We 're big boys now!

Oh man.....

[Altered Reality]

Again, it was THEIR OWN MONEY

He can do whatever he wants

Would you use those words to defend Uwe Boll?

[Caine]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

3DR screwed up? How? Because theyve been making a product for awhile?

Without seeing the final product, we dont know if they FAILED or screwed up. They made a promise to which I havent seen the result, imo, they havent failed

you really seem to be a fanboy who cannot admit any mistakes of his so beloved gamecompany, it's the fact man, they fu**ed it all up, no one else, they had 12 years for development and dont come to me with 2-3 years, the whole time matters nothing else.

[Commando Nukem]

Originally Posted by Caine

you really seem to be a fanboy who cannot admit any mistakes of his so beloved gamecompany, it's the fact man, they fu**ed it all up, no one else, they had 12 years for development and dont come to me with 2-3 years, the whole time matters nothing else.

No. The product you would have played would have been produced a quarter of the time.

[Candyman]

Well.. what i see is that every time someone refers to DNF says "Should", "would", "had", etc.

Does this help??? The fact is that DNF has not been released, and will NOT be released for a reasonable amount of time. So, for most of us... phrases like "well DNF would have been a great game if it was released a couple of years ago!" it is just a stab in the heart. Sorry guys but this doesn't feel like mature way of thinking! I mean.. come on!!!!!!!

The facts are:
1. DNF has NOT been released yet
2. Nobody knows if the game is still under development or not, but Take 2 has sued 3DRealms anyway and until the issue has been resolved, it seems DNF cannot continue developing.
3. 10 days after 3D Realms closure there is still no official statement, except some random posts in forums by people related to the company (like Scott Miller and Joe Siegler).
4. George Broussard who used to give all kind of (empty as it seems) promises and beeing so talkative in the past now he is nowehere to be seen. Has anyone has come in contact with him the last 10 days?

Where are the answers from 3drealms? I guess.. answer is coming.. "When it's done"!!!!!!!

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by bobthefish

take 2 is a moronic company. stupid idiots. how can they feel good about that? they could have jsut given 3DR the money they needed to finish it and this never would have been a problem.

Yes, absolutely correct. They saw the progress of the game, no need to go all
Jason Voorhees over 3DR.

[Caine]

Originally Posted by Commando Nukem

No. The product you would have played would have been produced a quarter of the time.

yeah forget the rest of the time, only excuses....... laughable.

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

Would you use those words to defend Uwe Boll?

That almost made me laugh out my seat.

To caine, I like your avatar. Is that from Stargate movie by chance?

[The Count]

Originally Posted by Alexander

Yes, absolutely correct. They saw the progress of the game, no need to go all
Jason Voorhees over 3DR.

Like many others you're obviously assuming that DNF was almost done when Broussard flew to Take Two to show it.
We don't know for sure to which extent the current build was actually done.
If DNF would have been set for a release date in the very near future I simply cannot imagine Take Two - after waiting for so long - deciding to crush the developer instead. Makes no sense at all to me.

[TonyPessimist]

Originally Posted by Alexander

Yes, absolutely correct. They saw the progress of the game, no need to go all
Jason Voorhees over 3DR.

progress?

[Tang Lung]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58681

So it seems that T2's claims are bullshit.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by The Count

Makes no sense at all to me.

Oh, sure it does... Let me try .
As we know, T2 & 3DR havn't been the best of friends over the years.
When it became officialy clear that George needed money to save 3DR, they instantly took advantage of the situation
to gain control over the project.
Now if this game would still be in baby shoes, why should they even bother?
They could still sue of cource and try to get the Duke IP and start a new game from scratch.
But in this case T2 sued pretty fast, so I believe there is more on their table to choose from. Only if they win of cource.

So in short. Why support a project from someone else, if you have a chance to crush them and take it all for yourself?