What do you want in a port?

Java the Hutt · 01-04-2003, 02:20 AM

Simple question. What do you want?

A ROTT program that runs under Win32?

A ROTT program that suports hi-res graphic modes?

TCP/IP networking support for ROOT?

Full 3-D OpenGL or Direct3D graphics version of ROTT?

From past non-game experience, I would vote for a phased-in approach of any advanced features.

I will gladly donate my limited time to see a Win32 port of ROTT (sorry Linux dudes, but Win32 pays the bills, even for Java the Hut!).

The problem is that eventually the Linux and Win32 port will split to separate paths because of the dificulty of supporting two operating systems. Believe me I have done this with multiple Unix vendors in the past, and it is not pretty. #ifdefs are nice until the code looks like total crap, and nobody can maintain it. If I had my way, the ROTT code would evolve into an object oriented C++ codebase, and the OS versions would become simple subclasses of the base (i.e.: abstract) classes. However, I can foresee a total "swordfight" over the direction of a project like this, and I do not have the time to swing my "sword" for every dingle-berry who just learned to program last week. I just want to see a portable version of ROTT that offers advanced features over the original DOS version.

Let us programming gurus know what you want. If it is not unreasonable, you might just get what you asked for. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Mr_Diffrence · 01-04-2003, 02:54 AM

I haven't played ROTT in a while, so I'm unsure if the game already has some of these things:

Core:
LOOK UP AND DOWN (FREELOOK MOUSE): Mouselook toggle, Mouselook sensitivity, Invert mouse for mouselook
32 PLAYERS: Multiplayer COMM-BAT!
CONSOLE + KEY BINDINGS: For advanced commands
MULTIPLAYER MENU: change things like characters / name
SPLIT-SCREEN MODE: two players on one system
DEATHMATCH RANKINGS: to see scores in game
ROTT SERVERS: join a game which is already started.
CROSSHAIR: Choose between a cross, an angle, or a point.
Enhanced weapon switching : player chooses its preferred weapon order. Doesn't switch weapon when picking up/walking over a weapon when you don't want to use it directly.
Death messages
TCP/IP Internet play
Support all extended VESA2 linear frame buffer modes.Full support SVGA : can switch to any VESA2 mode with the good aspect ratio, can switch video mode in the menu, save video mode in default config

Graphical:
VIDEO OPTIONS MENU: Change res. in game
ROCKET TRAILS
3DFX / OPENGL

Devil Master · 01-04-2003, 03:08 AM

Everything Mr.Difference said, plus 3D objects and enemies.

Kev_Hectic · 01-04-2003, 03:25 AM

^Agreed^

Mouse wheel suport would be nice for switching weapons too, just to throw that in there.

I need to place an order for this game sometime from 3DR.

theoddone33 · 01-04-2003, 04:41 AM

Just FYI...

The icculus.org version of ROTT will most likely always stay cross-platform (Linux, Win32, OSX) as it is now. However we also will probably not enhance the gameplay any, other than a few tweaks here and there. For instance, we've gotten high resolution working in various local builds. We may add this and a few other things, but we don't plan to enhance the game radically.

If anyone wants to work from our base, it'd be cool to see what you can make from it. Just be aware that the core icculus.org project will probably always stay pretty close to the original game. Oh, and if you start from our work please give us credit. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Crezzy_man · 01-04-2003, 07:16 PM

I think there should be an option to disable/enable the use of 3d objects or 2d sprites. With these kind of ports, some people actually prefer sprites (unless you got REALLY good models)

TeamKill · 01-04-2003, 11:24 PM

I agree. I think there should be options for turning the new features on and off. Not only for preferences of different people, but also for performance issues. Hate to say it, but I'm stuck with this GeForce 2 Go for a while, and I'm sure others are in simular/worse situations. When I turn the models on in jDoom, for example, I can notice a 5-10fps drop, moreso in the high resolutions.

What I would like to see are primative angled walls. I think I posted info on how to do this earlier on the "Rise of the Source Code" thread. I also would like to see the engine limits reduced, as I also discussed on that previous thread.

Other than that, what if we add some sort of backwards compatability with Wolf3d, converting the tiles/objects to Rott objects? Or add support for Ogg Vorbis, Mp3, MOD (and sub-formats), and maybe even stuff like AVI (DivX 4) support between levels?

MrEricSir · 01-05-2003, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Diffrence:
LOOK UP AND DOWN (FREELOOK MOUSE)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ROTT has keys to look up and down (Page up and Page down by default, I believe) but no mouselook as far as I remember. It wouldn't be impossible to implement, but since ROTT -- like Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM, and BUILD games -- isn't really 3D, looking up and down distorts the view. Therefore, adding mouselook might be kind of trippy and/or headache inducing.

01-05-2003, 03:39 AM

Win32 - To resolve the sound issues on newer machines / Not needing to try to get sb16 emulation working.

Console - Weird bindings / Alias a string of commands

Just that much and I'd be happy. But the ability to play OGGs would be really cool. Supposedly the guys at Xiph are very helpful with getting stuff like that working.

Also, wouldn't netplay use up not as much bandwith as a modern FPS? 150 player Comm-Bat for huge, Delta Force style slaughterfests!

[ 01-05-2003, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Person ]

MrWho · 01-05-2003, 06:52 PM

For me, the most important thing is just to get ROTT up and running on all intended platforms (Win32, linux and possibly others) 100% like the original (gfx, sfx and music). That should be, IMHO, the 1.0 release of the port.

After that (and only after that) should the developers start making modifications in order to improve the original experience.

All that should be made was already mentioned before, but to me the most important thing to do is to implement a quake-style control scheme (full customization of the controls, including mouse-wheel and all the other bells and whistles).

This is an opinion of someone who never actually played the original version of ROTT - and is dying to! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

01-05-2003, 03:39 AM	#9
Mr. Person Guest	Re: What do you want in a port? Win32 - To resolve the sound issues on newer machines / Not needing to try to get sb16 emulation working. Console - Weird bindings / Alias a string of commands Just that much and I'd be happy. But the ability to play OGGs would be really cool. Supposedly the guys at Xiph are very helpful with getting stuff like that working. Also, wouldn't netplay use up not as much bandwith as a modern FPS? 150 player Comm-Bat for huge, Delta Force style slaughterfests! [ 01-05-2003, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Person ]

01-04-2003, 02:20 AM	#1
Java the Hutt	What do you want in a port? Simple question. What do you want? A ROTT program that runs under Win32? A ROTT program that suports hi-res graphic modes? TCP/IP networking support for ROOT? Full 3-D OpenGL or Direct3D graphics version of ROTT? From past non-game experience, I would vote for a phased-in approach of any advanced features. I will gladly donate my limited time to see a Win32 port of ROTT (sorry Linux dudes, but Win32 pays the bills, even for Java the Hut!). The problem is that eventually the Linux and Win32 port will split to separate paths because of the dificulty of supporting two operating systems. Believe me I have done this with multiple Unix vendors in the past, and it is not pretty. #ifdefs are nice until the code looks like total crap, and nobody can maintain it. If I had my way, the ROTT code would evolve into an object oriented C++ codebase, and the OS versions would become simple subclasses of the base (i.e.: abstract) classes. However, I can foresee a total "swordfight" over the direction of a project like this, and I do not have the time to swing my "sword" for every dingle-berry who just learned to program last week. I just want to see a portable version of ROTT that offers advanced features over the original DOS version. Let us programming gurus know what you want. If it is not unreasonable, you might just get what you asked for. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

01-04-2003, 02:54 AM	#2
Mr_Diffrence	Re: What do you want in a port? I haven't played ROTT in a while, so I'm unsure if the game already has some of these things: Core: LOOK UP AND DOWN (FREELOOK MOUSE): Mouselook toggle, Mouselook sensitivity, Invert mouse for mouselook 32 PLAYERS: Multiplayer COMM-BAT! CONSOLE + KEY BINDINGS: For advanced commands MULTIPLAYER MENU: change things like characters / name SPLIT-SCREEN MODE: two players on one system DEATHMATCH RANKINGS: to see scores in game ROTT SERVERS: join a game which is already started. CROSSHAIR: Choose between a cross, an angle, or a point. Enhanced weapon switching : player chooses its preferred weapon order. Doesn't switch weapon when picking up/walking over a weapon when you don't want to use it directly. Death messages TCP/IP Internet play Support all extended VESA2 linear frame buffer modes.Full support SVGA : can switch to any VESA2 mode with the good aspect ratio, can switch video mode in the menu, save video mode in default config Graphical: VIDEO OPTIONS MENU: Change res. in game ROCKET TRAILS 3DFX / OPENGL

01-04-2003, 03:08 AM	#3
Devil Master	Re: What do you want in a port? Everything Mr.Difference said, plus 3D objects and enemies.

01-04-2003, 03:25 AM	#4
Kev_Hectic	Re: What do you want in a port? ^Agreed^ Mouse wheel suport would be nice for switching weapons too, just to throw that in there. I need to place an order for this game sometime from 3DR. __________________ RIP: 3D REALMS 1987 - 2009, you're still dead to me

01-04-2003, 04:41 AM	#5
theoddone33	Re: What do you want in a port? Just FYI... The icculus.org version of ROTT will most likely always stay cross-platform (Linux, Win32, OSX) as it is now. However we also will probably not enhance the gameplay any, other than a few tweaks here and there. For instance, we've gotten high resolution working in various local builds. We may add this and a few other things, but we don't plan to enhance the game radically. If anyone wants to work from our base, it'd be cool to see what you can make from it. Just be aware that the core icculus.org project will probably always stay pretty close to the original game. Oh, and if you start from our work please give us credit. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

01-04-2003, 07:16 PM	#6
Crezzy_man	Re: What do you want in a port? I think there should be an option to disable/enable the use of 3d objects or 2d sprites. With these kind of ports, some people actually prefer sprites (unless you got REALLY good models) __________________ And then the blind man saw, and the deaf man heard, and the man with no legs got up and walked away I kick arse for the lord! - Priest on Dead Alive

01-04-2003, 11:24 PM	#7
TeamKill	Re: What do you want in a port? I agree. I think there should be options for turning the new features on and off. Not only for preferences of different people, but also for performance issues. Hate to say it, but I'm stuck with this GeForce 2 Go for a while, and I'm sure others are in simular/worse situations. When I turn the models on in jDoom, for example, I can notice a 5-10fps drop, moreso in the high resolutions. What I would like to see are primative angled walls. I think I posted info on how to do this earlier on the "Rise of the Source Code" thread. I also would like to see the engine limits reduced, as I also discussed on that previous thread. Other than that, what if we add some sort of backwards compatability with Wolf3d, converting the tiles/objects to Rott objects? Or add support for Ogg Vorbis, Mp3, MOD (and sub-formats), and maybe even stuff like AVI (DivX 4) support between levels?

01-05-2003, 06:52 PM	#10
MrWho	Re: What do you want in a port? For me, the most important thing is just to get ROTT up and running on all intended platforms (Win32, linux and possibly others) 100% like the original (gfx, sfx and music). That should be, IMHO, the 1.0 release of the port. After that (and only after that) should the developers start making modifications in order to improve the original experience. All that should be made was already mentioned before, but to me the most important thing to do is to implement a quake-style control scheme (full customization of the controls, including mouse-wheel and all the other bells and whistles). This is an opinion of someone who never actually played the original version of ROTT - and is dying to! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]