Earth No More

[alexgk]

Eeeaammm...guys, this article has screenies of the game.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by alexgk

Is 3DR hosting ENM Official forums as with Max Payne?

It's way way WAY too early to be talking about that. I'm sure there will eventually be something like that, but not anything that can even remotely be counted as "soon".

Originally Posted by Simon Charles

3D Realms (and for example, Valve with Turtle Rock's Left 4 Dead) have started walking that fine line between a pure publisher and co-designer.

"started"? We've been doing this for years. This is nothing new, really.

Originally Posted by alexgk

Eeeaammm...guys, this article has screenies of the game.

Look closer at what is actually in the article.

[alexgk]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Look closer at what is actually in the article.

Earth No More will be produced for the PC, the Xbox 360, and the Playstation 3 and is currently slated for 2009 according to the article. There's plenty of info in this piece about Earth No More, including text, a few screenshots, and interviews with Samuli Syvahuoko from Recoil, as well as Scott Miller & Raphael Von Lierop from 3D Realms.

This is why I said what I said. If I'm not getting something please tell me .

[Marty]

only interested if it has great single player

[Joe Siegler]

alex, what I mean is look at what's in the printed article, not the copy I wrote for the website.

[hell-angel]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

This kind of thing is not new. We'd been getting credit as the authors of Wolfenstein 3D for 15 years now. Things never change.

But we don't take credit where we didn't do the work in this regard. We've always been honest (that I can recall) about these issues. Never hid behind a game claiming we did it when we didn't.

Doesn't take away the fact that when 3DR's name is under it, it usually is a game that is fun to play and very well done. That can't be a coincidence

Personally, I can't wait to read and see more.

[alexgk]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

alex, what I mean is look at what's in the printed article, not the copy I wrote for the website.

Ok, no problem . I see now, they can be concept art or anything else.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Marty

only interested if it has great single player

Same goes for me

[Foxy]

What is it with 3DR and aliens?

DFWT needs to get in here, stat!

[Kristian Joensen]

It seems there is already a Earth No More wikipedia article.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by hell-angel

Doesn't take away the fact that when 3DR's name is under it, it usually is a game that is fun to play and very well done. That can't be a coincidence

Personally, I can't wait to read and see more.

I didn't say anything about that. I was speaking ONLY about the perception issue folks have with us and credit and creation of games.

[naddie]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

I didn't say anything about that. I was speaking ONLY about the perception issue folks have with us and credit and creation of games.

You are correct, sir. Giving you guys the credit for the perception people have with your games in these forums are a bit misleading.

Prey's perception of being a great game was over exaggerated. I thought it was just okay. Fun for the time being. Multiplayer was fun for the first few weeks. Wasn't a fan of Max Payne, either.

Honestly, the only game I can really attach a long lasting "fun" label on is Duke Nukem 3D.

Max Payne and Prey only watered down my interest in Duke Nukem Forever. So please forgive me for saying that Earth no More makes me feel...uncomfortable.

[Kristian Joensen]

People complain when they say WID and people complain when they give out a release date(or heck in this case a YEAR).

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by ADM

Was kind of suprised that the team 3DR were working with was Recoil, but very cool indeed.

Really? When Joe mentioned these guys I was already assuming an announcement was coming. I mean ex-remedy guys with nothing to do? Of course 3DRealms would be interested

[Kristian Joensen]

When did Joe mention them ?

[naddie]

Well, you know what they say about idle hands...

[ADM]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

I count four ex-Remedy guys amongst those in those profile pages.

Actually it's 3. Samuli S, Samuli V and Aki Raula.

[Spyd]

Perhaps a little soon to announce? Not that I don't like the information, but if its way off to even have a forum for ENM, why the announcement?

[Altered Reality]

This is a wild guess, but could it be because someone "discovered" their new IP on the USPTO site and started making wild guesses on a gaming forum?

[Kristian Joensen]

No people have done that before(Like with Prey). They wouldn't announce games for random less than rational reasons. I am sure they have their reason(s) to announce early, like this quote in the OP hints at: "Recoil and 3d Realms know they are talking about the game a little early,but it's all part of the plan."

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

When did Joe mention them ?

Oops, wait I'm thinking of Big Rooster. For some reason I thought they joined this group. My mistake.

[Altered Reality]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Recoil and 3d Realms know they are talking about the game a little early,but it's all part of the plan.

[chicken_little]
At this point, I got a terrible thought. I'm afraid that the "plan" may turn out to be "talk about the game way too early, hype it to the max for a couple of years then let it rot in development hell".
[/chicken_little]
Or things may actually go according to plan.

[mysteryperfecta]

What I don't understand from the early synopsis is that Scott talks about the "good guys" and the "bad guys". If mankind is responsible for these spores and "red vines", because of pollution, aren't WE the bad guys? Certainly we wouldn't kill these innocent red vines from the bosom of Mother Nature in Her attempt to protect Herself, would we? Are the "good guys" environmentalists who fight the spread of these spores by taking on Big Business, with their smokestacks and waste disposal? Is the "teaming up" aspect of this game involve environmentalists riding on the backs of said vines on a crusade to the evil Corporate HQ?

[Altered Reality]

Or maybe the "bad guys" are just people who have been infected by the red vines and started mutating.

[ShadeEX]

Originally Posted by alexgk

Is 3DR hosting ENM Official forums as with Max Payne?

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

It's way way WAY too early to be talking about that. I'm sure there will eventually be something like that, but not anything that can even remotely be counted as "soon".

Well if that happens I'll be ready to update the 3DR forum plugin.. and pass it on to ADM for him to upload (Since only he can upload new updates to firefox)..

It need's an update anyway since some forums have changed names ("Classic Apogee/3D Realms" got renamed to "Other Apogee/3D Realms Games"), and some are removed (General Messages)..

Actually I should fix that now, now that I think about it..

[Simon Charles]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

"started"? We've been doing this for years. This is nothing new, really.

I only meant to say it's a newer business model, that's all.

[peoplessi]

Not that much "newer" that I would call it even that Over ten years isn't that new.

[Jokke_r]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Really? When Joe mentioned these guys I was already assuming an announcement was coming. I mean ex-remedy guys with nothing to do? Of course 3DRealms would be interested

It's not like these ex-remedy guys were sitting on their ass and then 3Drealms contacted them with this new idea, you got it completely backwards afaik.
Recoil started development etc then THEY most likely contacted 3Drealms.

[Micki!]

Originally Posted by Jokke_r

It's not like these ex-remedy guys were sitting on their ass and then 3Drealms contacted them with this new idea, you got it completely backwards afaik.
Recoil started development etc then THEY most likely contacted 3Drealms.

If it's IP from 3DR, and they contacted 3DR while they started development, what did they start to develop before they contacted them then..? shouldn't they get the IP from 3DR before starting on anything...?! (or maybe i'm missing some point here )

It's like starting movie filming without a script, and then later, getitng a script for the film...

But maybe you didn't mean ACTUAL development..? In which case it would make sense

[Kristian Joensen]

Originally Posted by Jokke_r

It's not like these ex-remedy guys were sitting on their ass and then 3Drealms contacted them with this new idea, you got it completely backwards afaik.
Recoil started development etc then THEY most likely contacted 3Drealms.

Maybe maybe not. In the recent interview Raphael said the following that certainly pertains to this discussion:

3DR works with external developers, but isn't a publisher, and many times uses external companies to shape its own IP. Are the ideas coming from 3DR or from the developer?

It's really a very collaborative approach. There are multiple internal concepts at 3D Realms, as well as concepts that come to us from developers. Some of these concepts may have a great core, but lack really strong hooks. If we feel that the ideas have potential, we'll work with them to make their ideas stronger.

Other times a developer might come to us with an idea, and after we look it over we may feel that it is not in line with our goals. At that time we might approach them with one of our internal concepts, and see if they might be interested in handling that instead. We don't hand down directives from 'on high' on how games should be created. Our strength comes from that relationship so that the studio feels empowered, and they feel that this really is their game.

They see a large degree of financial reward, and from that relationship seems to grow an added passion and dedication. This doesn't happen when working with a publisher really, with the creation of an IP that you don't really own. Original IP is so important. I don't believe that there is any real hard evidence to back up that licenses from outside the industry are a viable long term strategy.

The only data we have in the case of ENM is the fact that Recoil was founded in December 2006, 3D Realms applied for the ENM trademark on February 6th and the press release on Recoil's founding is from March 28th, 2007. So no matter who initiated it they didn't work in it for long before contacting the other party.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

But btw on the issue we discussed earlier, if the fact that Remedy initiated MP means that is not a 3DR game then by that token Prey is not a Human Head game since 3DR initiated it. But it is quite obvious that Prey is a Human Head game. IMO the only way you can treat both MP and Prey consistently is if you say that MP is BOTH a Remedy game AND a 3DR game and Prey is BOTH a HH game AND a 3DR game

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

IMO the only way you can treat both MP and Prey consistently is if you say that MP is BOTH a Remedy game AND a 3DR game and Prey is BOTH a HH game AND a 3DR game

A game is credited to the company that developed it. Even if 3DR did create Prey's concept, they didn't develop it... therefore it's not their game, it's HH's game.

[Kristian Joensen]

Can anyone that has seen the article say if the article confirms that the game uses UE3 or not ?

Spoiler:

show spoiler

First of all, the part in spoiler tag was only really meant for Jokke_r. Second there is a difference between "a 3D Realms game" and a "a game developed by 3D Realms". I only claimed the former for Prey not the latter, Jokke_r conceded that point for Prey in his first post on this matter, but he didn't for Max Payne, the reason he gave would exclude calling Prey a HH game, that obviously is a wrong standard. That was my argument.

[ADM]

Yes it says and I quote "Earth No More will run on Unreal Engine 3"

[Kristian Joensen]

Cool, thanks for the confirmation. How did you get the issue ?

[Phait]

Sooo here:
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27263

You say it's a 3DR game, when in fact it's a "Recoil Gamers" game? Why doesn't 3DR do it themselves (don't say DNF and make me laugh).

[TerminX]

Originally Posted by Phait

Sooo here:
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27263

You say it's a 3DR game, when in fact it's a "Recoil Gamers" game? Why doesn't 3DR do it themselves (don't say DNF and make me laugh).

3DR is overseeing production, much like the development of Prey. Would you say that Prey isn't a 3DR game, even though 3DR came up with the concepts and had control over development?

I'm really not sure I see the point of posting nitpicky comments like that. 3DR's role in the game is pretty obvious... if you want to go and dissect the wording of the thread like that, maybe you should find something better to do.

[Jokke_r]

Unlike with prey were 3DR did come up with the concept, i am quite sure that in this case Recoil were the one that came up with the concept and initiated development and then contacted 3DR who are now financing and overseeing development. The difference here is that 3DR came up with the whole idea of Prey while they didn't for Max Payne nor most likely ENM.

Ultimately i guess the problem for me is kinda like how DMA designs created GTA and GTA2, then i'm not sure but i guess they were bought by Rockstar and DMA designs became Rockstar North. And now anytime people talk about GTA it's "Rockstars" game which it sort of is but still. The situation isn't really similar but Rockstar North is clearly a different entity than "Rockstar" and it's not "Rockstar" who are developing it (nor originally created the IP afaik) it's Rockstar North (previously DMA designs).
Obviously it's different since Rockstar owns Rockstar North and Recoil are not owned by 3DRealms (well in a strange way since they're financing it).
ANYWAY, my point is that it's the originator of the idea/concept of the game who should be able to claim the game as theirs, 3Drealms role in this case is most likely much more of a Producer role than anything with development. blah

[Kristian Joensen]

But using that standard then Prey isn't a HH game. Why should it be either or, why not both and ?

Also how do you know anyway that Recoil came up with this ? Because 3DR didn't try to make the franchise internally previously like with Prey ?

The thing is that Scott Miller and Raphael Van Lierop do nothing BUT come up with ideas for games/IP as well work with 3rd party developers and both those ideas and ideas that those developers have come up with(and in the case of Scott some "minor" bussines matters like the negotiation of contracts) .

For instance Scott mentioned in 2005 them(3DR) coming up with a game concept for 3rd party development they wanted to waith with pursuing until after DNF:

After Duke is released, we already have designs on a new IP, that we believe can be very successful. Our model is based on the idea that we can team up with quality third-party studios -- studios who don't have the clout and financial means we have -- and create original games that help both studios achieve our goals.

- Scott Miller, May 27nd, 2005.

For all we know that could have been Earth No More or one of the other 8 game concepts they are about to em bark upon.

Recoil was founded in December 2006 and 3D Realms applied for the Earth No More trademark on February 6th, 2007. But don't assume that 3DR applies for a trademark the instance they have a name to trademark.

But no matter who initiated it, 3DR or Recoil both companies have been involved right (almost, atleast) from the beginning.

Also don't dismiss 3DR's role in taking an already established concept and helping fleshing it out and adding hooks in order to make it successful and stuff like that.

[Antosa]

Screenshot, Screenshot and Screenshot and trailer pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[ADM]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Cool, thanks for the confirmation. How did you get the issue ?

I haven't got it. A user at the alan wake forums had it and posted that bit questioning some stuff.