Take Two Sues 3D Realms

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by RuskiSnajper.

i didn't read the quoted quote

What the end of it then , your overreacting stuff , saying that they threw people out cause they were drained from fresh ideas last 8 years is really weird.

And look I'm 19, that's low in our way of life here , ... thus i don't remotely have any idea about these laws of donations or what the heck it is. I never heard of it here. Never anywhere else. If that's true there , no offence, but i have to say that's one really stupid law. Just makes good for the government and their plans. There are dumb laws, the worst part of it people don't resist it. That's why government can say pretty much everything and people will obey, thus dumb law from my view point.

One of the dumbest laws is weapon legalization.

I never said they threw anyone out, in 2006 a number of devs left, why would anyone leave unless they were going to loose their job or if someone was demanding something they couldnt do. Its weird, but if you cant get what you need from an employee you let them go or they leave

It might sound retarded to you and I, but if companies could get donations then they wouldnt sell stock

[Altered Reality]

Originally Posted by Thriller

I still hope take2 will be ruled to stfu.

Instead, I hope Take2 will be ruled to strip 3DRealms of every possible right about Duke Nukem. Only then DNF will be able to come out.

[SplatterHappy]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

Instead, I hope Take2 will be ruled to strip 3DRealms of every possible right about Duke Nukem. Only then DNF will be able to come out.

Yeah, as if Take Two wouldn't do a Uwe Boll job on it and ruin DNF completely.

[Thriller]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

Instead, I hope Take2 will be ruled to strip 3DRealms of every possible right about Duke Nukem. Only then DNF will be able to come out.

I dont get that. The whole point was that its a GB/3DR-game. Sure, Duke is a really nice character, but neither he nor the game mechanics are unique enough to wait for a game for 12 years.

If Take2 would release a Duke-game its pretty much "ok cool a new fps, I´ll check it out". They might not even share the same basic vision; insane interactivity.

[5ththrax]

I don't get why anyone is feeling bad for 3DR.

I only joined 4 years ago and i feel so violated, i can't imagine how the people who joined in the late 90's feel.

Honestly, i hope the gaming community responds to this like how Metallica fans responded after the nasper incident.

[Altered Reality]

Originally Posted by SplatterHappy

Yeah, as if Take Two wouldn't do a Uwe Boll job on it and ruin DNF completely.

Take2 is not Uwe Boll, they respect franchises. The day a GTA game with no free roaming comes out, I'll share your fear.
It's 3DRealms that pulled an Uwe Boll: they could've released DNF in 1998, Duke 5 in 2003, Duke 6 in 2007, be on their way with Duke 7 and gained a shitload of money, instead they didn't deliver a first-party game in 12 years and they are broke.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by SplatterHappy

Yeah, as if Take Two wouldn't do a Uwe Boll job on it and ruin DNF completely.

LOL, just the name of Uwe Boll gives me goosebumps! He makes german movie makers look really stupid at the moment.

Well, anyway, I think it's pretty pathetic to say Take 2 should get DNF. Or even Duke completely.
Those nutjobs at Take 2 don't give a damn if a game sets new standards or has well balenced gameplay. In todays world most companies develop under high presure one stupid title after another, to stay in the competition.
We're talking about mainstream games.
I don't think Take 2 will sit infront of the DNF pieces and put them with good care together, or even polish the game! If something doesn't fit right, or doesn't run stable, they will probably just remove the feature and its code completely.

I'm certainly not installing UWE BOLL SH*T ON MY MACHINE!

[Altered Reality]

Those nutjobs at Take 2 don't give a damn if a game sets new standards or has well balenced gameplay.

On the contrary, they do, because a bad game means insufficient sales, which mean loss instead of profit. If you don't like modern games (do you prefer 2D SNES lameness? Crapanese 2D RPGs?) maybe you are the problem, not Take2.

[Exitus]

This is looking more and more like Thief and the Cobbler. I never thought that any company would actually take DNF from Scott and George and fill in the gaps with crap.

If/when DNF is released, I suspect we will see most of what 3DRealms put in, and even a casual gamer could probably tell the difference between the actual 3DRealms content and the filler that Take Two puts in.

Like Thief and the Cobbler, I hope *coughs* someone *coughs* leaks LameDNF before Take Two shits it up.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

On the contrary, they do, because a bad game means insufficient sales, which mean loss instead of profit. If you don't like modern games (do you prefer 2D SNES lameness? Crapanese 2D RPGs?) maybe you are the problem, not Take2.

I never said I didn't like modern games, Chuck...
I was basicly addressing the profit greed that seems to control many developers, thus questionable products land in our stores.

[theton]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

I posted on that one as well ive had 12 years of many games, its not like ive been waiting 12/13 years for the only game in the world to come out

exactly, but most ppl in this forum give the impression that they have only been waiting for 12 years for this game, and now that its cancelled the whole gaming industry is screwed up. I mean WTF??? are they that fanatical? that blind? And that no other game comes close to DNF??? of course not, no game can compete the "perfect game that you dream of". There are way to many incredible games out there to bitch about one being canceled.

And when I was talking about loyalty, I did not mean I was loyal to a company because I bought their games. I meant that a company can not ask for more loyalty from a gamer than to buy original games, you get my point?

[3rdmillhouse]

Originally Posted by Alexander

Those nutjobs at Take 2 don't give a damn if a game sets new standards or has well balenced gameplay.

I'm certainly not installing UWE BOLL SH*T ON MY MACHINE!

Are BULLSHITING us? Since when T2 is known for releasing crap disguised as games? What about Bioshock, GTA4, GTA Chinatown Wars, Lost and Damned? All products of Take 2.

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

and they are broke.

source?

[Altered Reality]

Originally Posted by Swetsenegger

source?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8037688.stm

[3rdmillhouse]

Originally Posted by Swetsenegger

source?

Whaddya mean "source"? Where have you been for the last 10 days? Pluto?

[Altered Reality]

Originally Posted by 3rdmillhouse

Whaddya mean "source"? Where have you been for the last 10 days? Pluto?

No, he must be one of those who believe it's all a marketing ploy.

[Thriller]

I doubt GB+Scott are broke. Thats the wierdest part of everything.

Hopefully we get some answers as to what the hell really happened.

[3rdmillhouse]

Originally Posted by Thriller

I doubt GB+Scott are broke. Thats the wierdest part of everything.

Hopefully we get some answers as to what the hell really happened.

Surely they're not broke, if we're talking about the technical term. What happened is that 3dRealms went out of cash in a way that became impossible for them to maintain their employees, the developing of new games and the maintenance of their offices. They surely have some income and money, but not enough to resume the development of DNF or to hire a team of artists and programers to work on the game.

[SplatterHappy]

Originally Posted by 3rdmillhouse

Are BULLSHITING us? Since when T2 is known for releasing crap disguised as games? What about Bioshock, GTA4, GTA Chinatown Wars, Lost and Damned? All products of Take 2.

Bioshock is a prime example IMO. Was it a good game? Sure.. But it could have been a GREAT game had the gameplay been polished a bit more. As it was, I did play through it twice just to see both endings, but I played through Duke3D at least 30 times before I started to get tired of it. I'm not going to go into specifically what I felt was off about Bioshock's gameplay. Quite frankly, if you can't see the weak points yourself then there's no point in arguing about it.

Personally, I'm getting tired of games that are merely adequate. I was hoping that DNF would bring back the fun factor that, in my opinion, has been missing from lots of releases over the past several years.

IMO, if any other outfit (not just Take Two) gets their hands on the assets and finishes the game off, it won't be anywhere near as good as it would if 3DR got to finish it.. the filler material will suck, things will be excised from the game, and the suckage will ensue.

Edit: BTW, Take Two also published 'Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer', 'Army Men: Sarge's War' and lets not forget 'Aquaman' (Xbox only). Anyone want to coat those clouds with a silver lining?

[3dwizzard]

Originally Posted by SplatterHappy

Bioshock is a prime example IMO. Was it a good game? Sure.. But it could have been a GREAT game had the gameplay been polished a bit more. As it was, I did play through it twice just to see both endings, but I played through Duke3D at least 30 times before I started to get tired of it. I'm not going to go into specifically what I felt was off about Bioshock's gameplay. Quite frankly, if you can't see the weak points yourself then there's no point in arguing about it.

Personally, I'm getting tired of games that are merely adequate. I was hoping that DNF would bring back the fun factor that, in my opinion, has been missing from lots of releases over the past several years.

IMO, if any other outfit (not just Take Two) gets their hands on the assets and finishes the game off, it won't be anywhere near as good as it would if 3DR got to finish it.. the filler material will suck, things will be excised from the game, and the suckage will ensue.

This man speaks the truth!

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by 3dwizzard

This man speaks the truth!

Ah, so true
AND.. before I forget, Bioshock wasn't made by Take2 at all. The company Irrational Games developed it and Take 2 bought the company
with it's games in 2006

[ShXIII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNONHpblaNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaFXlxN_mrc

Hahahaha

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by ShXIII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNONHpblaNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaFXlxN_mrc

Hahahaha

Crude but true. DNF is dead, move along there is nothing to see here.

[Candyman]

The guy in the first video he is a bit upset though, but he's speaking the truth...

[prophecy holder]

He looks like he is gonna snap at any moment .

[Candyman]

Originally Posted by prophecy holder

He looks like he is gonna snap at any moment .

lol, you got that right!
But seriously... i guess he feels like most of us do: deceived.

[Heil Duke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSnNY...eature=related

[Lutzifer]

since when are the opinions of pimply-faced youths and angry bald guys from youtube the word of wisdom?

[Delicieuxz]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

Instead, I hope Take2 will be ruled to strip 3DRealms of every possible right about Duke Nukem. Only then DNF will be able to come out.

I can't imagine how a person can care more about a release of the game DNF than the studio and people who created the character and series, and who are responsible for making it a desirable game in the first place. It appears both stupid and incredibly self-centered. You be happy that a person loses their creation and only hope for success as well as their company just so you can play their game? There is more than just a hint of sociopathy in that statement.

And on to that the fact that the game will take longer to come out if Take-Two is at all successful in their attempt to freeze progress of DNF until the end of the suit, and you've got one big package of foolishness.

[Candyman]

Well... if anyone still would like to wait for DNF release date at E3 show this year, be my guest!

[gungriffon geona]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

(do you prefer 2D SNES lameness? Crapanese 2D RPGs?)

Philistines like these are the reason good games don't exist anymore. You don't WANT to be a philistine, do you?

[Alhexx]

Did those two guys say anything that hasn't already been said multiple times on these forums?

[prophecy holder]

I don't see why this forums needs to continue. It is slowly turning into dreck with people blindly defending or blindly attacking anyone and anything. It's best to forget the DNF/3DR fiasco and just get on with your lifes.

[Reynols]

Originally Posted by 3dwizzard

This man speaks the truth!

I disagree.

As long as companies keep pushing for eleet graphics and that takes most of the dev time, something must stay behind, and that is gameplay.
Since gaming has gone mainstream long ago, it's 100% about money, and to supply the sheeple...erm consumers with the next new hit. Who cares about quality if the hype is just big enough?

About DNF, I think they just quite didn't get the transition from DOS/sprites to this shiny stuff with hi-poly models. It's easy to make a realistic game with those new engines, but Duke was always more cartoony. Hard to accomplish that with realistic state-of-the-art gfx without looking ridiculous.

Look at the Quake2 engine trailer: the guns look like Duke is holding turds, the monsters look and move laughably. Totally devoid of any character that made D3d so awesome.
And while having nice gfx, the latest "leaked" footage is not much better, it looks like another generic fps, and the boss fights seem pretty boring (you have to shoot a boss several times, then climb up on him, remove a screw, then rinse and repeat?? Wow...)

Plus I remember reading GB stated the success of Duke was always a mystery to him; figures they failed to recapture it.
Also I wonder how long the fans have to wait for an official statement. Sure, there might go on alot of legal stuff behind the scenes now, but is it too much asked for 1-2 lines of text? Nah, I guess just locking/deleting threads is more convenient....

[Thewho]

Originally Posted by Crosma

The initial contract is bound to have some set of deliverables associated with the advance. It's difficult to comment without seeing the contract, but not delivering anything probably is an infringement. At the very least, 3DR would have to pay the advance back (how much that was hasn't been made public, but from what Scott has said, it was significantly less than $12,000,000).

Iirc Infogrames (or gt interactive or whoever it was back then) paid $800K for the publishing rights.

[palan]

One thing is certain; we will not get any answers from 3dr till they resolve the legal issue with t2.
I believe that this lawsuit is ridiculous and all that 3dr need are some good lawyers, and there is extremely good chance this thing does not go into trail unless the judge turns out to be idiot.

Jesus Christ T2 is suing 3dr for their (t2s) bad business decision, or elaborating a little: of buying company that bought company that made PR deal with 3DR.

From all leaked information we assume that there was not clause that prohibits transferring the PR to another company, but was there a clause that allows it?


Who knows this may end up good at the end, the worst what would happen is 3dr just paying the initial amount that was given to them by first publisher.
Where they will get PR rights back, and then choose publisher with resources that will provide all what is necessary to finish the damn game.

[dinwitty]

I think that we still don't know whats going on. If 3Dr is a hub of Apogee, they can't be out of funds. If there is a lawsuit, don't delay it 1-2 years, that suit has to be resolved ASAP or an out of court agreement made. More delays on the game just make it delay more and the suit doesnt help. What I hope is GB and SM take the DNF and det it done in some other way, pull the existing talent to the side and PSST work over here instead. If it gets done if soon or already there is no suit, just get the game done and everybody's happy. Just keep working the game somehow. The back of my brain is telling me that its probably actually done and the crew released and 3Drealms as a businees is done and closed...but I have no clue, just another theory, so the controversy embroils...

[Mountain Man]

Frankly, I can't sympathize with 3D Realms. They had 12 freakin' years to release the damn game, and I don't blame Take 2 one bit for wanting to get something out of this fiasco.

[Drazula]

A few things:

1. Some are posting that 3DR didn't get $12 million. As I said, it doesn't matter if it was paid to them or to Infogrames.

The order of things is:
a. Infogrames pays 3DR for the rights to DNF.
b. Infogrames sells the DNF rights to Take 2 for $12 million.

Think of it like a mortgage, with the only difference is that 3DR pays them with a game instead of money. Infogrames can sell the mortgage to someone else like Take 2. And then the game is paid to Take 2 instead. 3DR essentially walked away from the mortgage. Sounds like what's wrong with this country doesn't it?

I am not sure why people are pissed at Take 2. If you paid $12 million for nothing you would be angry too.

2. I cannot even see how Apogee can stay in business. There is such anger across the net over this that people will boycott anything with the name Apogee plastered on it. 3DR/Apogee is a pariah. They may have to re-invent themselves under a new name.

3. With that, I can't see George B showing his face in gaming again. I can't believe I am saying this, but he is more despised than John Romero. I can't see anyway he can change that. The more quiet GB remains, the angrier people are getting. Will Scott distance himself from George to salvage something out of this mess? It is not outside the realm of possibilities.

[Note: I am not angry at 3DR or George. It is simply what I observed on the net.]

[Caine]

yeah all these people here adoring 3drealms should see the facts and live outside their dreambubbles, lies lies lies etc. nothing more, feeling sorry for 3drealms? why? didnt release a game in 12 years, just made cooperations etc. but not a real game. sure duke is the biggest joke, 12 years of development (you cannot say it's just about 3 years in development just of reboots, what logic is this?).