Continued Development of DNF Confirmed

[SpinX]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

SpinX, what about a story driven duke FPS that is not called Duke Nukem Forever? Is the name "Duke Nukem Forever" magical? Is the particular setting of Las Vegas magical? Would you not buy a great AAA next gen Duke game for your preferred platform with great graphics, great gameplay and a great story if it was not DNF?

No the duke nukem forever name isn't needed at all... but with all the hype around that name, I think this MUST come out, if only to redeem duke and 3drealms...

I just want a AAA duke FPS with all the elements that made duke 3D cool... Don't get me wrong, i liked Manhatten project... but it wasn't that much duke as a FPS could be...

Also I think 3drealms should disband the name 3drealms and go back under the quality seal name that is Apogee, and release Duke nukem forever under that name...

[X-Vector]

I wouldn't either.

[BloodWolf806]

Always bet on Duke.

[Rockn-Roll]

It's all hype. If 3DRealms had money then they wouldn't have let anyone go...they would have used DNF resources to make another game while DNF sat in court.

In my opinion 3DRealms does not have any money left to buy a pencil eraser. Yeah, at one time they had income and revenue and lucrative contracts. But, now it doesn't look like they are working on anything...there's just existing contracts which are just to port and distribute existing games to the mobile market and that's all. And, all that money is probably going to fund the court battle for DNF.

Again I must point out that George Broussard has not said anything on his twitter http://twitter.com/GeorgeB3DR about DNF...it's all about the current mobile marketing of D3D which seems to support my belief that 3DRealms isn't doing anything other than porting their existing games. 3DRealms failed when they decided to develop Prey instead of DNF...they have not been able to recover...and now may never recover unless they get a very generous court decision.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by Rockn-Roll

3DRealms failed when they decided to develop Prey instead of DNF

While I agree with your post overall, 3DR didn't develop Prey. It was only when they realized that they couldn't & got somebody else that it actually got done.

[Kristian Joensen]

"If 3DRealms had money then they wouldn't have let anyone go"

This is wrong, 3D Realms might well have let the dev team go so as to not end up in a situation with no money.

"3DR didn't develop Prey. It was only when they realized that they couldn't & got somebody else that it actually got done."

True enough, but they did have significant creative say over it and more importantly for this discussion they funded a significant part of its development. After Prey's release they decided to pursue a strategy of having several third party games in development at the same time. Maybe that is part of the reason they let their DNF dev team go back in May?

[pirateguy]

So DNF development continues?

I wonder how the ex-employees feels after working for 12 years, with the promise of incentives from DNF sales in exchange for working with lower wages?

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Maybe that is part of the reason they let their DNF dev team go back in May?

Sorry, but that still makes no sense at all to me.

[Kristian Joensen]

Look if you have a company and are bringing in $600,000 in cash on a monthly basis while spending $900,000 you will eventually run out of money, how long that will take depends on how much you have in the bank. It is understandable if you in such a situation cancel a project that is costing you $300,000/month in order to fill the gap.

Edit:

Blah, I was responding to the wrong thing.

What I was getting at there was that maybe all these 3rd party projects were draining 3DR for cash and they had to let the DNF dev team go to avoid running out of cash.

[zwieback]

dnf is developed by gearbox now. count 1+1.

[Altered Reality]

Originally Posted by BloodWolf806

Always bet on Duke.

Never bet on George.

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

Sorry, but that still makes no sense at all to me.

It does to me. George realized that his company is absolutely incapable of developing a game, but delivers as a producer (see Max Payne 1 and 2, DNMP, Prey). So, why keep a (useless) development team around when you work exclusively as a producer?

[crunchy superman]

Look, if you're letting the team go for lack of funds, how are you getting it developed 3rd party? They gotta pay their employees with something too, you know.

[Kristian Joensen]

I agree with you crunchy the only way that could happen would be if the 3rd party itself provided the funding or if a 4th party did(probably the least likely scenario). However the only thing 3DR said in its press release was that the dev the dev was let go for financial reasons, they didn't actually say that those financial reasons were lack of funds. Even though that is probably the most likely cause. Technically they could call letting their dev team go because they figured going 3rd party was more cost effective a financial reason. I HIGHLY doubt that is actually the case, but technically it is possible since that would be a financial reason.

Edit:

Also I would like to add that the dev team that they let go back in May hardly can be described as being useless as that was a bunch of high calibre, hard working guys. It is not fair to their efforts to call them useless.

[crunchy superman]

While that's certainly possible, if they were concerned about being cost effective, they likely should have stopped working about 7 years earlier. Besides, how is it more efficient to keep hiring & training developers until you're making progress, only to lay them all off & go with an external group that knows nothing about the game at all? And for what other "financial reason" would you lay off the staff? Due to an excess of funds?

[WoodenSword]

Scott's statement means nothing new.

1) They are not saying anything new than their press release in May.

2) There is a court going on. They can't say DNF is not in development anymore, now CAN THEY???? On the contrary!

[KaiserSoze]

My 2010 post was in regards to hopefully getting the DNF
legal issues resolved and possibly getting some good news
next year. Nothing more.

[Baboy]

Originally Posted by WoodenSword

Scott's statement means nothing new.

1) They are not saying anything new than their press release in May.

2) There is a court going on. They can't say DNF is not in development anymore, now CAN THEY???? On the contrary!

That's what I hate the most in this situation. They keep pushing questions away, even whether the game is coming out because the lawsuit is going on. "Now" they release a new screen, they start talking again, but they still won't say anything precise. So, you're talking again: is the lawsuit over? If so, what are the results? If it isn't over, why are you talking now and not before? And if you're talking, why don't you say something precise?

We don't even know if the game is actually being developed. As I pointed out earlier, George changing a line of code each day still constitutes as developing, and maybe they don't even have a team working on the game.

Oh, and 99% of the Duke fans are not interested in bullshit casual games - well, many people would play them, but only because they're craving for new Duke Nukem stuff. In reality everyone wants DNF, or at least Begins. If the plan is creating a new fanbase by making casual games, then that's just crazy, because the 13 years development of the only internal game you've been making caused the near disappearing of the big old fanbase.

What I hope is that all the casual games are just needed for a quick cash-in, so they can hire a team, finish the game in a few months and finally release it.

[Kristian Joensen]

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

While that's certainly possible, if they were concerned about being cost effective, they likely should have stopped working about 7 years earlier. Besides, how is it more efficient to keep hiring & training developers until you're making progress, only to lay them all off & go with an external group that knows nothing about the game at all? And for what other "financial reason" would you lay off the staff? Due to an excess of funds?

Hey, I said that was most likely NOT the case

[apt.pupil]

well for me- i would be happy to see a Duke game hit either the PC or PS3(latter is preferred for online play), even if it isn't DNF.

why? i have waited 12 years without saying anything for DNF. i can certainly wait that extra time for it to mature.
lets just hope Duke doesn't play the game in a walker assist tool as a result of such a long development period

[dlink]

George will be great grand father when DNF is done.

[Sharpie]

We all know that 3D Realms is tied into a lawsuit from its publishers Take 2. This is "supposedly" placing them into a binding agreement of silence when it comes to the subject matter of the case which just so happns to be Duke Nukem Forever.

Silence is fine when it comes to DNF as it puts us fans at ease and ends hopeless speculation on the title which is still considered to be in development. In fact at this stage and due to the legal dilemma I feel this is the best possible thing.

So George and Scott I ask you this...

If you are legally not allowed to talk about DNF why the hell are we still getting teased on the project!? Many fans are just sick of it and you even come on here on the forums telling us to move on to other games until Duke's eventual return.

Well we are all fine with that but this teasing bullshit has got to stop. It is not just Duke's Facebook that is the problem, it has been happening for the past 12 years. Don't tease if you have nothing to deliver.

You want your fans respect? Give back what you want to receive. Return to the media blackout or if you want to show something make sure it actually contains or involves something substantial.

We will go and play other games in the meantime and I know I have been happily for years. I'll always be interested in Duke so I will still be following any possible news but just make sure it actually contains substance. I can't believe 3D Realms has failed at being completely silent even when legally ordered by from a court.

With inconsistant silences and teases that lead to nowhere you have turned an already terrible mess into an atrocious one.

I know you owe us nothing but without us you are nothing.

/pointless rant.

[Sabarasa]

Well lawsuit or not...they can't leave the little hype left to die....

[DerricktheW]

Originally Posted by Sabarasa

Well lawsuit or not...they can't leave the little hype left to die....

Trust me, they don't need to tease to keep the hype.

They can go dead silent for another few years and then release a single thumbnail and everyone will shit themselves in anticipation once again.

[Duke's New Chainsaw]

You speak The Truth.

Congratulations!

[JobivanHiob]

Originally Posted by sharpie

we all know that 3d realms is tied into a lawsuit from its publishers take 2. This is "supposedly" placing them into a binding agreement of silence when it comes to the subject matter of the case which just so happns to be duke nukem forever.

Silence is fine when it comes to dnf as it puts us fans at ease and ends hopeless speculation on the title which is still considered to be in development. In fact at this stage and due to the legal dilemma i feel this is the best possible thing.

So george and scott i ask you this...

If you are legally not allowed to talk about dnf why the hell are we still getting teased on the project!? Many fans are just sick of it and you even come on here on the forums telling us to move on to other games until duke's eventual return.

Well we are all fine with that but this teasing bullshit has got to stop. It is not just duke's facebook that is the problem, it has been happening for the past 12 years. Don't tease if you have nothing to deliver.

You want your fans respect? Give back what you want to receive. Return to the media blackout or if you want to show something make sure it actually contains or involves something substantial.

We will go and play other games in the meantime and i know i have been happily for years. I'll always be interested in duke so i will still be following any possible news but just make sure it actually contains substance. I can't believe 3d realms has failed at being completely silent even when legally ordered by from a court.

With inconsistant silences and teases that lead to nowhere you have turned an already terrible mess into an atrocious one.

I know you owe us nothing but without us you are nothing.

/pointless rant.

the truth!

[SpinX]

Originally Posted by Sharpie

We all know that 3D Realms is tied into a lawsuit from its publishers Take 2. This is "supposedly" placing them into a binding agreement of silence when it comes to the subject matter of the case which just so happns to be Duke Nukem Forever.

Silence is fine when it comes to DNF as it puts us fans at ease and ends hopeless speculation on the title which is still considered to be in development. In fact at this stage and due to the legal dilemma I feel this is the best possible thing.

So George and Scott I ask you this...

If you are legally not allowed to talk about DNF why the hell are we still getting teased on the project!? Many fans are just sick of it and you even come on here on the forums telling us to move on to other games until Duke's eventual return.

Well we are all fine with that but this teasing bullshit has got to stop. It is not just Duke's Facebook that is the problem, it has been happening for the past 12 years. Don't tease if you have nothing to deliver.

You want your fans respect? Give back what you want to receive. Return to the media blackout or if you want to show something make sure it actually contains or involves something substantial.

We will go and play other games in the meantime and I know I have been happily for years. I'll always be interested in Duke so I will still be following any possible news but just make sure it actually contains substance. I can't believe 3D Realms has failed at being completely silent even when legally ordered by from a court.

With inconsistant silences and teases that lead to nowhere you have turned an already terrible mess into an atrocious one.

I know you owe us nothing but without us you are nothing.

/pointless rant.

Agreed!

[8IronBob]

Damn straight...there's plenty of us who've been following DNF news ever since Atomic Edition was released. They played games with us over the years (guess that's a two-way street for us playing THEIR games since the early '90s), siding with Carmack's famed technology was the first wave, they turned id down a couple of times, then they went to Epic and CliffyB towards their tech, boy, it's a never ending cat and mouse game, the way I've seen it.

[Dukefan24]

In my opinion, the engine switches were the worst mistakes of their (3DR, Id) past. The reason? The engine used to create a game on, is nothing more than the tech. The quality of the actual game depends on the creativity of the developers. Of course the Unreal Engine did more than the Quake2 engine, and probably neither of them had the interactivity of the Build engine, but I'm sure 3DR could have created a succesfull DNF game with their original 1998 tech with gameplay and interactivity recognized by any gamer and Duke fan. Also, the first Unreal Engine wasn't very stable at that time.

[8IronBob]

Precisely...they shouldn't have to keep playing "delay of game" with us just so they can go do a pointless engine tech switch every two or three years like that. Just stick with one technology, mod it and tweak it to its limits, then let its course settle in with other stuff. There was a lot more potential in the Quake 2 tech than George realized, imo. After all, look at Valve with the original Quake tech, modding it to a point where Valve switched it and gave it the Source engine makeover. I mean, if it worked for Valve, why in the hell couldn't 3DR do something quite similar?

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by DerricktheW

Trust me, they don't need to tease to keep the hype.

They can go dead silent for another few years and then release a single thumbnail and everyone will shit themselves in anticipation once again.

Then question the thumbnail and say "That's it?".

[8IronBob]

I dunno, I just wish that Gabe Newell would've given a few pointers to George about how to take an old engine technology and making it dazzle with more modern upkeep and tweaks in both the graphical and physical standpoint. That's how Source came to be off the Quake technology, same could happen with 3DR's rendition of their given engine tech with the right know how and resources. Doesn't matter whether Quake based or Unreal based engine tech, you can easily update the graphical and physical aspects, and it'll look almost as good, if not better than a game based on a more modern engine tech, if you put the right efforts into it.

[Dukefan24]

Indeed. The Source engine is a good example of a still widely used engine for various types of games, and of course the largest modding communities. And yet it's still just the tech, nothing more than a 'developement kit' that brings this wonderfull creativity from expert game developers and starting modders, to a final product of succes!

Also keep in mind that 3DRealms has (had) the potential of creating an engine, the Portal Engine. The idea came from creativity, and tech had to be made to make it happen. I'm unaware of why this was halted, but I'm sure that 3DR could have done a great job on Prey. Human Head did it pretty quick, and the yet slightly modified Doom3 engine didn't realized all ideas that were originaly intended to be in the Prey project, but the majority of critics found the final product more than alright, even quite a revolution somehow..

Now of course this portal tech is most famous to the puzzle game Portal, a Source Engine game by Valve. They basically took the idea of having 'dynamic' portals as they were supposed to be in Prey. And that's what I meant with 3DRealms and 'potential' in that matter, they already had the idea of creating a world with these 'dynamic doors', but somehow didn't finish the job, whether for tech reasons or not.. Valve proved that the idea was programmable into their existing Source Engine, which is an excelent example!

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by Dukefan24

Also keep in mind that 3DRealms has (had) the potential of creating an engine, the Portal Engine. The idea came from creativity, and tech had to be made to make it happen. I'm unaware of why this was halted, but I'm sure that 3DR could have done a great job on Prey. Human Head did it pretty quick, and the yet slightly modified Doom3 engine didn't realized all ideas that were originaly intended to be in the Prey project, but the majority of critics found the final product more than alright, even quite a revolution somehow..

Now of course this portal tech is most famous to the puzzle game Portal, a Source Engine game by Valve. They basically took the idea of having 'dynamic' portals as they were supposed to be in Prey. And that's what I meant with 3DRealms and 'potential' in that matter, they already had the idea of creating a world with these 'dynamic doors', but somehow didn't finish the job, whether for tech reasons or not.. Valve proved that the idea was programmable into their existing Source Engine, which is an excelent example!

Big difference between adding teleporter tricks to an existing engine and using portals as an engine design paradigm. What they were trying with old Prey was pretty complicated.

[0marTheZealot]

How can you tell Scott Miller is lying?

His lips are moving :P

[marioman360]

"We are definitely looking to bring Duke into casual gaming spaces"
DUKE NUKEM!? the hardest of the hardcore, the baddest of the bad, CASUAL!?

This is a grim day, my friends.

[EvanQuinn]

you guys are ******* sour pusses. Duke Nukem Wii is going to kick so much ass. It's gonna be like pac man and battletoads mixed with dig dug. Think about it. Shooting pig cops with the wii mote, touching tits with a wii mote, using the actual hand motion duke does. having to hold the wiimote near your wang to pee in the WIIHD remake of hollywould holocaust. I'm ******* pumped. I can't sleep.

[Dukefan24]

Yeah, the Wii/DS platforms surely miss out the tits, and Duke's coming to bring the touch. lol

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Sharpie

We all know that 3D Realms is tied into a lawsuit from its publishers Take 2. This is "supposedly" placing them into a binding agreement of silence when it comes to the subject matter of the case which just so happns to be Duke Nukem Forever.

Silence is fine when it comes to DNF as it puts us fans at ease and ends hopeless speculation on the title which is still considered to be in development. In fact at this stage and due to the legal dilemma I feel this is the best possible thing.

So George and Scott I ask you this...

If you are legally not allowed to talk about DNF why the hell are we still getting teased on the project!? Many fans are just sick of it and you even come on here on the forums telling us to move on to other games until Duke's eventual return.

Well we are all fine with that but this teasing bullshit has got to stop. It is not just Duke's Facebook that is the problem, it has been happening for the past 12 years. Don't tease if you have nothing to deliver.

You want your fans respect? Give back what you want to receive. Return to the media blackout or if you want to show something make sure it actually contains or involves something substantial.

We will go and play other games in the meantime and I know I have been happily for years. I'll always be interested in Duke so I will still be following any possible news but just make sure it actually contains substance. I can't believe 3D Realms has failed at being completely silent even when legally ordered by from a court.

With inconsistant silences and teases that lead to nowhere you have turned an already terrible mess into an atrocious one.

I know you owe us nothing but without us you are nothing.

/pointless rant.

No one has EVER, I repeat EVER said that the stuff being teased on Duke's Facebook page are DNF related. You are being teased, yes, but not being teased DNF but something unrelated for all we know.

People here have a tendency to assume one thing even if it isn't the most plausible conclusion for it. What you are all doing is just blind leaps of faith grasping to anything you can get a hold on and calling it fact. Since the lawsuit we have seen nor been told anything new, Scott saying that is still in-development is true, it was never canceled in the first place.

We can't just assume we must be thrown a bone now that everything is all screwed up no matter how long we waited it just seems like we should since we waited so long. No one asked us to, we did it of our own freewill.

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Nacho

Since the lawsuit we have seen nor been told anything new, Scott saying that is still in-development is true, it was never canceled in the first place.

Not cancelled is not necessarily the same thing as in development.

As for the teasing, that's just Scott Miller acting like a second-hand car salesman, which is the reason people are speculating about DNF - because it's the only big Duke project since '96 and positive news concerning its current status would be unexpected (posting a screenshot that closely resembles a scene from the leaked media doesn't help either).

Basically, it's the same chain yanking shit 3DR has pulled off for years, remember the "2001" in the E3 trailer - it's not a release year, it's just the way the game looks in 2001!

[zwieback]

some things will never change: people and days left until dnf comes out.