Take Two Sues 3D Realms

[Duke's New Chainsaw]

I see words in your post.

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Rösti

I don't even know where to begin...

You guys don't get it, mr. Broussard is obviously raking in poker cash to fund the resurrection of 3DR and the DNF project.

Give 'em hell, George!

Always bet on Duke!

[prophecy holder]

You know a good way for georgy boy to get some money? Have him and another person stand outside at a booth. The sign on the booth reads:

"Kick George in the ass for screwing up DNF. $15 kick fee and $5 for a big steel toe boot".

Everyone can kick him as many times as they want as long as they got the money for it. That will rake in millions.

[Suppressor1]

Come on George, I would take a flight for 10 x kicking your...

[PsychoGoatee]

So... has there been any more movement on this, any more info?

I'm hoping 3D Realms retains the Duke rights, of course.

[Conan of Cooma]

Yeah, any updates on the progress of the case? Come on you US based legal sleuths, give us the low down!

[vincentdante]

I think the trial begins next year sometime, but not sure when.

[alex d]

Yeah, from the initial news reports about the case it sounded as if Take Two were expecting it to reach court "within 12 months" from when it was announced. Given the all the stuff that came to light over repayment deadlines for the loan T2 gave 3DR, Duke Begins falling through and potential release windows for DNF, it really does give the impression of T2 basically going:

"Hey, 3DR, we're taking you to court, but we don't really have a foot to stand on in the court case right now. We'll just tie you up in red tape for a year or so, effectively stopping you from even trying to finish the project until we can legitimately claim breach of contract for not finishing the project."

[SpinX]

yeah? isn't there a courtdate? anybody?

[Monkey Butler]

Originally Posted by alex d

but we don't really have a foot to stand on in the court case right now

I'd say that I'd be surprised if it makes it to court, but that would be forgetting the stubbornness of a bloke who'll work on vapourware for 13 years.

[Firstperson]

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

I'd say that I'd be surprised if it makes it to court, but that would be forgetting the stubbornness of a bloke who'll work on vapourware for 13 years.

For the sake of aquiring the IP for DN, I bet Take 2 WOULD take it to court.

On a side note, I bet it would be a slap to the face to EVERYBODY if Take 2 did aquire the IP through the law suit and then just shelved it all.

[alex d]

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

I'd say that I'd be surprised if it makes it to court, but that would be forgetting the stubbornness of a bloke who'll work on vapourware for 13 years.

But since when is that a breach of contract? If it went to court now it would be laughed out of court because, quite simply, the deadlines for the contracts to be satisfied are still far away. You can't take someone to court for breaching a contract due to lack of delivery of a product by a deadline when the deadline has not passed and expect to win.

When the game's not out in a year or so's time when it has passed then yeah, they'll have a very strong case, but that's the point, no?

[Monkey Butler]

3DR have no money and no staff, so there's absolutely no way that they're gonna be able to finish the game before the deadline. That's called the doctrine of frustration, and it means T2 are entitled to nullify the contract before the deadline.

[alex d]

Not being able to fund an internal development team is hardly factual evidence that it could not possibly be finished in time, as is the general definition of contractual frustration. Given how often 3DR has collaberated with external development teams for projects such as Prey, Max Payne, Earth No More and such, it's not a stretch to imagine the next step would have been to have an external studio carry on the work.

If it was 6 months until it had to be released in order to fullfil the contracts then fair enough, there's reasonable doubt regarding it's potential completion but as the dates being thrown around concerning the deadlines were like 2010/2011 there was plenty of time left to sort it out. I would say there's no grounds for frustration as there were still options available for work to continue and plenty enough time to get it out the door.

The question is, though, does the fact T2 took injunctions out against 3DR from doing anything with the game at all give T2 grounds for frustration that it can not be finished in time? A bit of a chicken and the egg situation there.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by alex d

Not being able to fund an internal development team is hardly factual evidence that it could not possibly be finished in time, as is the general definition of contractual frustration. Given how often 3DR has collaberated with external development teams for projects such as Prey, Max Payne, Earth No More and such, it's not a stretch to imagine the next step would have been to have an external studio carry on the work.

If they had the money to hire an external development team, they wouldn't have laid off the one they already had.

[MegaMustaine]

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

If they had the money to hire an external development team, they wouldn't have laid off the one they already had.

Maybe another company was willing to pitch doe at the product if it was finished through an external team. Maybe there was an external team, say for example Gearbox, that was willing to take on the rest of the development and they had the money to fund it themselves. There are many scenarios where an external dev team could take over the rest of development. It was the solution that 3DR least wanted to go to as they wanted to take care of the game in house, but now the option totally makes sense and is about the only option to finish the game.

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

Originally Posted by alex d

The question is, though, does the fact T2 took injunctions out against 3DR from doing anything with the game at all give T2 grounds for frustration that it can not be finished in time? A bit of a chicken and the egg situation there.

With the injunction not being held up, 3DR is free to do whatever they like with the game until they actually go to court. Even then they are free to do as they wish until a judge says different.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

Maybe another company was willing to pitch doe at the product if it was finished through an external team. Maybe there was an external team, say for example Gearbox, that was willing to take on the rest of the development and they had the money to fund it themselves. There are many scenarios where an external dev team could take over the rest of development. It was the solution that 3DR least wanted to go to as they wanted to take care of the game in house, but now the option totally makes sense and is about the only option to finish the game.

Very few developers have the money to do something like that. Aside from Blizzard, Valve or Epic, pretty much all developers are totally at the mercy of their deals with publishers. Since TT has the legal right to publish DNF, the chances of development money coming from another publisher is pretty much zero.

Sure, there are probably things going on in all this mess that none of us are privy to, so who knows. But to say "there are many scenarios" might be grasping at straws at bit.

[Duke's Acolyte]

I'm sure it's been said before but I'm going to say it again. I don't know if anything will come of the Take Two v 3drealms lawsuit but if TT can get the copyright to DFN and find somebody else to finish it, even if it takes another 3-4 years then so be it. I say let it be so.

[Wamplet]

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

Maybe another company was willing to pitch doe at the product if it was finished through an external team. Maybe there was an external team, say for example Gearbox, that was willing to take on the rest of the development and they had the money to fund it themselves. There are many scenarios where an external dev team could take over the rest of development. It was the solution that 3DR least wanted to go to as they wanted to take care of the game in house, but now the option totally makes sense and is about the only option to finish the game.[COLOR="Silver"]

Unless they managed to outsource the game development to 10 year olds in South Korea or Guam, the cost will be a lot more than doing it in-house, unless it's done as i stated above from overseas or in a sweatshop which is nearly the same thing. Good luck on QA and a game that would be playable or even fun. Gothic 3 expansion, I am looking at you.

[Kristian Joensen]

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

Very few developers have the money to do something like that. Aside from Blizzard, Valve or Epic, pretty much all developers are totally at the mercy of their deals with publishers. Since TT has the legal right to publish DNF, the chances of development money coming from another publisher is pretty much zero.

Sure, there are probably things going on in all this mess that none of us are privy to, so who knows. But to say "there are many scenarios" might be grasping at straws at bit.

In the final analysis I agree with you in that I don't think a 3rd party finising DNF is particulary likely, but I just wanted to comment on something.

"Since TT has the legal right to publish DNF, the chances of development money coming from another publisher is pretty much zero."

Another publisher and/or developer could get part of 3DR's cut(Like the way advances work in the industry) and a deal to finish DNF might be tied into another deal, like a publishing deal for some 3rd party game, a license to do one or more Duke games, stuff like that.

Edit:
"Unless they managed to outsource the game development to 10 year olds in South Korea or Guam, the cost will be a lot more than doing it in-house,"

Wamplet, under MegaMustaine's scenario 3DR would not be the one paying for the cost.

Edit2:

What I am saying that there are many different deals that could be done, that while not likely have a probablity quite a bit over 0, like WBIE agreeing to handle and fund the finishing of DNF in exchange for:

1. All of 3DR's DNF cut upto a certain amount of units sold.
2. X% of 3DR's cut after that.
3. WB getting the rights to a Duke movie
4. WBIE getting the rights to do(IE develop and not just publish) a game based on 3.
5. The publishing rights for Earth No More.

[Monkey Butler]

Look, these are all certainly [ridiculously minute] possibilities, but legally, they're unreasonable. The development team ran out of money and sacked pretty much the entire staff. It's possible that the entire DNF fan community could chip in to work on the game for free and get the game out before the contracted date, but it's not reasonable to believe that that would happen, and reasonableness is the legal test. T2 have to give evidence that the contract is frustrated, they do that by providing evidence of the lack of money/staff. It then falls to 3DR to prove that they can in fact conclude their part of the contract. Collateral contracts or terms relating to Duke Begins may change things, but we know next to nothing about that so it's pointless to speculate.

[scubagear]

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=75

[wayskobfssae]

Originally Posted by scubagear

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=75

... link to that actual page?

[KaiserSoze]

It's one of two possible things.

The lawsuit has been settled or it's because the case was moved to Texas.

[Duke's New Chainsaw]

Or it moved from the Supreme Court to the Federal Court.

I really think we would have heard something about it by now if it was settled.

[wayskobfssae]

Originally Posted by KaiserSoze

It's one of two possible things.

The lawsuit has been settled or it's because the case was moved to Texas.

Where the loser gets punished with the electric chair.

[Rapture_Rising]

Originally Posted by wayskobfssae

Where the loser gets punished with the electric chair.

thats the last thing we want to see, Duke being strapped into Ol' Sparky

[Duke's New Chainsaw]

He survived it before.

[Rapture_Rising]

Ah... Touché. i forgot about that.

[Dukefan24]

First time I played Duke3D, the man didn't survive in the chair lol.

[Conan of Cooma]

Originally Posted by Dukefan24

First time I played Duke3D, the man didn't survive in the chair lol.

You make a poor Duke.

[SpinX]

anybody know the court date already?

[Edli]

Originally Posted by SpinX

anybody know the court date already?

When it's time.

[UglyNacho]

Originally Posted by Edli

When it's time.

lol, was thinking the same exact thing.

[Suppressor1]

So, what´s going on here? The trial isn´t over (george is still afraid of the weasle lawyers), and the 3d realms employees don´t know what´s comming next. Nobody knows anyway... And as long as the trial isn´t over, we won´t get any new info. That´s all. There are two possibilities: 1. We won´t get any info, and in the end, 3d realms is pissed off. 2 We won´t get any new info, and 3d realms is able to finish the game. Both times, we won´t get any new info, because 3d realms must not talk about the trial.

I don´t expect any new info. The main point is, that the future of Duke Nukem and 3D Realms depends on lawyers, and George and Scott can´t do anything but wasting time.

This is very simple, and i don´t understand people expecting new media, release dates and all that stuff.

3D realms is fighting and imho it is a "make-or-break" situation. And it shows a tendency towards a "break" situation, because 3d realms had to fire the development team. So, the development of the game can´t go much further. And graphics are getting old again, and the game is not finsihed yet...

[SpinX]

Originally Posted by Suppressor1

So, what´s going on here? The trial isn´t over (george is still afraid of the weasle lawyers), and the 3d realms employees don´t know what´s comming next. Nobody knows anyway... And as long as the trial isn´t over, we won´t get any new info. That´s all. There are two possibilities: 1. We won´t get any info, and in the end, 3d realms is pissed off. 2 We won´t get any new info, and 3d realms is able to finish the game. Both times, we won´t get any new info, because 3d realms must not talk about the trial.

I don´t expect any new info. The main point is, that the future of Duke Nukem and 3D Realms depends on lawyers, and George and Scott can´t do anything but wasting time.

This is very simple, and i don´t understand people expecting new media, release dates and all that stuff.

3D realms is fighting and imho it is a "make-or-break" situation. And it shows a tendency towards a "break" situation, because 3d realms had to fire the development team. So, the development of the game can´t go much further. And graphics are getting old again, and the game is not finsihed yet...

But I always thought that if duke nukem forever is still in developpment and nearing completion (at gearbox or human head or whatever), the whole lawsuit is unnecessary... But we don't know jack shit... not even something simple like a F-ing date!

[Suppressor1]

I am sorry, but your view is too idealistic. Lawyers don´t care about opinions, Duke Nukem, a good game, fun and other emotions etc... Lawyers only think about laws, agreements entered into, money and time. That´s all folks. I think, 3D realms won´t develop big games in future anyway, as Scott said before, it was a waste of time trying to develop DNF alone... And 3D realms was not big anyway. And it is much smaller now. And even if somebody else finishes DNF, it does not mean that 3D Realms will have a bright future.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Suppressor1

I am sorry, but your view is too idealistic. Lawyers don´t care about opinions, Duke Nukem, a good game, fun and other emotions etc... Lawyers only think about laws, agreements entered into, money and time. That´s all folks. I think, 3D realms won´t develop big games in future anyway, as Scott said before, it was a waste of time trying to develop DNF alone... And 3D realms was not big anyway. And it is much smaller now. And even if somebody else finishes DNF, it does not mean that 3D Realms will have a bright future.

Seems that we share the same POV

[TBZ]

There's more than one of you? That scares me.

[Biotech45]

look at this:http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASSearch
does this mean the case is over i searched it do not serach county search index number: 601457/2009