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Old 04-17-2008, 06:29 PM   #1

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What system of health???
What health system do you want to use?

The good old 100% system, with health/med kits everywhere arround....

or

The newer System where the screen pulses red when duke is hit, and if he doesnt hide he dies....if he hides the full health would be there in about 5 seconds.
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My additional idea: if duke gets hit deadly, there would be some kind of eliminator mode, known from CoD 4/modern warfare multiplayer....
he fires all rounds of ammo out of his pistol or other one handed weapon towards his enemys before he dies. would love to see that!!!
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Old 04-17-2008, 06:41 PM   #2
Re: What system of health???
I remember hearing it will be like Manhattan Projects system of using "Ego" for health.
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Old 04-17-2008, 06:44 PM   #3

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Re: What system of health???
have not played anhatten project...what do you mean with system of using "ego" for health?
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:01 PM   #4

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha-One View Post
The newer System where the screen pulses red when duke is hit, and if he doesnt hide he dies....if he hides the full health would be there in about 5 seconds.
That system is utter bollocks. The fact that you can overcome half a dozen bullets to the head just by resting in a corner for five seconds is laughable, even in computer games (it's only forgiveable in Portal because it's not supposed to be a shoot-'em-up). There's nothing at all wrong with a health meter.

Health versus ego, though... They're mostly the same thing, except you gain ego when you kill an enemy (at least, you do in Manhattan Project).

Nah, let's go with good old health. Ego can be an aside (high ego lets you charm the special weapon off the stripper, or something). Because if you're talking about lotsa guns, your sense of self isn't really appropriate.

Let's have armour, too. Nothing wrong with a bit of kevlar round the extremely muscular torso.
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:03 PM   #5

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Re: What system of health???
I prefer a health meter with criticals, getting shot in the head is almost always a one hit kill, getting shot in the chest without body armor is 2-5 shots with hand guns and 1-3 with higher caliber, with body armor it's 10-15 for hand guns and 2-5 with higher caliber weapons. getting shot in the legs is 3-5 shots.
Getting shot with an rpg is 1 hit kill, period.

It might seem impossible but I'm sure a "I still suck my thumbs" difficulty setting would satisfy those unable. ^_^

Although I wouldn't mind an ego meter, if thats what 3d realms is pursuing. If that is the case, I'm more curious in how well an ego meter will match with ambient music.. Ego meter just screams arcade shoot em up.
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:46 PM   #6
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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruno View Post
That system is utter bollocks. The fact that you can overcome half a dozen bullets to the head just by resting in a corner for five seconds is laughable, even in computer games (it's only forgiveable in Portal because it's not supposed to be a shoot-'em-up).
You're gonna say it's not "real", eh?

Don't forget, this isn't reality - it's a videogame.
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Old 04-17-2008, 08:47 PM   #7

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Re: What system of health???
It's almost as real as recovering lethal wounds by using a med-kit. Both health systems are fine for me. It's 3DR's choice. That or including a new one...
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:15 PM   #8
Re: What system of health???
I dislike the regeneration system. Unless they mix things up a bit and make it less mind-numbingly simple (like Halo's horrible health system), then it'll mess up the experience for me. Though I'm sure if they do go down that route they'll mix it up. At least something like segmenting the bar (when you go below a point, you can only regenerate to that point unless you pick up a medkit) would make it fine. Health regeneration takes away things like health item management and makes it very unfair in multiplayer that you can be beaten within an inch of your life and yet as long as you destroy your opponent, you'll always be at full health once they manage to find you again.
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:59 PM   #9

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Re: What system of health???
The focus in a game like this should be less concerned with how you regain health and, ultimately, much more concerned with what manner in which you'll lose it

Regen systems are fine. You can complain about how they aren't realistic, but then, have you actually played a realistic game lately? Tell you what -- pop in Rainbow Six Vegas 2, set it to "realistic" mode, and pretend your Duke Not fun.

The Regen system of Halo (and of course, at this point, most FPS games these days) do two very important things at once: 1) they obfuscate number crunching by removing a GUI element from the screen, and 2) they naturalize the reactions players should have in terms of dealing with on-screen damage. I like both of those aspects, and I find that not having to worry about a number in the bottom left of my screen makes what's currently going ON in the screen more involving.

You could argue that the fact that you need to sit down and "hide" for a few seconds to regenerate is too gamey, but I've never actually felt that. Certainly no more or less gamey than the idea of health packs on your person that you invoke with the press of a button -- and that's discounting their almost always ridiculous placement throughout levels (Oh jesus, thank GOD someone left a health pack here in the urinal!).

By and large, you'll find that health packs are an old school concept that don't really apply to most new games. If you want to pull out the conservative "but it's Duke, and Duke 3D was like..." nonsense, you can, but I don't think it changes the fact that one of DNF's main struggles will be to appeal to the current "hardcore" gamer; and those hardcore gamers are playing games where the idea of health is a fuzzy red along the outter edges of your screen; not a big bar at the bottom with a number in it :|

With all that said, I'm not actually "dissing" the old school methodology here; I'm just suggesting that it doesn't fit with current titles of the same genre, and I don't quite like it as much.
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:49 PM   #10

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
You're gonna say it's not "real", eh?

Don't forget, this isn't reality - it's a videogame.

but wouldnt that type of health system slow down the game if i have to wait/hide in the corner all the time? Remeber, Duke dont hide or sneak, dont use armour or sniper scope Thats what George said
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:57 PM   #11

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackit View Post
but wouldnt that type of health system slow down the game if i have to wait/hide in the corner all the time? Remeber, Duke dont hide or sneak, dont use armour or sniper scope Thats what George said
lol, yeah, in fact, Duke is so badass he doesn't even need health packs; all he has to do is avoid taking fire for 4 seconds and he's back!

Seriously, lets not take George's comments out of context and apply them to game mechanics
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:48 AM   #12
Re: What system of health???
I think the health system should be a mixture of both.

You get health as a percentage and the health packs keep you from bleeding out and activate your 'healing ability'. Only difference is this healing ability takes several months and requires physical training at the end.

Now thats innovative.
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:06 AM   #13
 
Re: What system of health???
We just need some adhesives to stop the bleeding, the rest'll work itself out.
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Old 04-18-2008, 02:46 AM   #14

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Re: What system of health???
i just hope atomic health and gaining health/ego when urinating is in the game again.
fast food for health is ok too.

but what happens when you die? restart of the level? last checkpoint? Will there be autosaves? Quicksaves?

What i really want so see is wounds on duke. and bandages after picking up a med kit.
and when you are wounded and go to a babe she would rip off some cloth off her shirt and use it on you as a bandage.
now that would f#cking rock!
its a classic action movie scene and is already parodied in Hot Shots 2.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:07 AM   #15

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Re: What system of health???
Yeah i would like to se damage appearing on dukes arms etc, kindof like they did with the space marine's face in Doom 1&2, and more recently, like they're doing with Far Cry 2, -their 'self healing' system looks AWESOME - duke sould be ripping bullets out himself with a knife too!
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:32 AM   #16

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Re: What system of health???
Medkits are awesome.
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:53 AM   #17

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackit View Post
but wouldnt that type of health system slow down the game if i have to wait/hide in the corner all the time? Remeber, Duke dont hide or sneak, dont use armour or sniper scope Thats what George said
No it does not, if you are on low health with the old health system it´s very likely that you get killed and have to reload, while with the Halo system you can just stay away for a couple of seconds to be ready again. The breach in the flow of gameplay is a lot smaller with the regeneration system.
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Old 04-18-2008, 06:34 AM   #18

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Re: What system of health???
The regenerating health would be bad keeping eye on MP. Since, that would make atleast DM modes rather silly.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:20 AM   #19

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
The regenerating health would be bad keeping eye on MP. Since, that would make atleast DM modes rather silly.
I'm not actually disagreeing with you (yet) on this, but what exactly do you mean? Plenty of games that use regen health systems for their SP modes use it in the MP components, and never does it seem silly, per say. It's just a mechanic; in my mind, it's less natural to keep track of a number on the screen than it is a visual indicator you can instantly interpret.

You have games like Halo where, admittedly, you actually have a lot of health, and the regen system is quickly paced. And then there's games like Rainbow Six Vegas where the regen system is barely noticable (you're likely to die if you get hit anyway!)

I don't think it would impact MP that much; other than, again, the player being able to concentrate more on what's happening on screen -- and not micromanaging their health with health packs, etc.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:34 AM   #20

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
The regenerating health would be bad keeping eye on MP. Since, that would make atleast DM modes rather silly.
regenerating health does not equal immortality. you could still die. you just dont need to pick up med kits. those are still less realistic than some sci-fi healing thing like nanorobots or nanosuit.
or there could be a pixie that follows Duke and heals him with her Pixie Dust(TM). But I don't think that would be the best choice for a Duke game

something futuristic would fit him better. Nanobots would be cool IMHO.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:47 AM   #21

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Re: What system of health???
This discussion has already proved my point, since spooger brought examples from consoles. With pad controlling you are deemed for a slowerpace, that meaning you can't really manage nothing much anything.

Halo had packs and regenerating health, but for Deathmatch, it will get silly when one guy is running away just to get full health after few secs. I have never really been a fan of that type of healthsystem.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:47 AM   #22

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Re: What system of health???
Who cares, as long as it is fun. It is not reality I'm looking for. It's art.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:06 AM   #23

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
This discussion has already proved my point, since spooger brought examples from consoles. With pad controlling you are deemed for a slowerpace, that meaning you can't really manage nothing much anything.
Wait, I'm not sure I get what you're saying here? Pace is pretty much dictated by I guess what I'd call a gameplay target. Halo is arguably a fast-paced game (despite molasses jumping), and Rainbow Six Vegas is slow as nails in terms of movement speed; both games, though, typically require lightening quick reflexes to succeed at in Multiplayer. Without a doubt, those are just examples of games with pace that follow the target experience. Halo MP is suitably arcadey, much as I expect DNF's to be.

There are plenty of PC games that utilize the Halo-esque regen systems, and, conversly, plenty of console games that utilize the more traditional numerical approach. Regardless, declaring that DNF should utilize the latter because you can't manage anything in MP...

Well, have we forgotten that DNF is headed to consoles? Mostly undeniable at this point. What does that suggest to you in terms of a health system? I imagine they'll adopt gameplay systems to best suit both platforms. I think Regen systems work fine on both.

Anyway, Regen systems aren't some static mechanic; they very between games; more realistic games won't let you regen quickly at all, and you're dead in a split second if you're getting hit, others (such as Halo) allow powerups, and generally have very quick regen time. It's a system of variables and will most likely be dictated by the general flow of the game, and, for that matter, may be different in multiplayer.

It's much more dynamic I'd say than dealing with numbers on the screen, for the reasons I mentioned in above posts.

But yeah, main point: I wouldn't drag consoles into a discussion about DNF, since you can bet it's headed in that direction as well.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:29 AM   #24
Re: What system of health???
i think any health-system - for SP-gameplay - has the following functions:

- it should give a feedback on player actions / skills by penalizing bad behavior and rewarding good.
- it should be integrated well into the gameplay, so it wont kill the fun by constantly killing you (e.g. regen (halo) or adaptive difficulty (max payne))
- it should aid immersiveness, e.g. give you a feeling of belonging into the world the game shows you (e.g. the boob-meter from Trespasser )

So if the game offers you healthpacks lying around why not also go with the healthmeter. If the gameplay isnt based on getting "packs" but playing strategically and using your environment well, why not go with regeneration.

For duke i would love, if he gets his health or some boost from cool kills and random acts of senseless violence to show that he lives on his own testosterone / his über-coolness
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Old 04-18-2008, 02:24 PM   #25

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Re: What system of health???
Medkits are for pussies.. Real men use Duct tape ..Yeah.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:12 AM   #26
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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
You're gonna say it's not "real", eh?

Don't forget, this isn't reality - it's a videogame.
NO... IT'S LIES... IT CAN'T BE...

DUKE NUKEM IS REAL - HE IS MY GOD... MY RELIGION - NUKEMOLOGY...



Just kidding... I know that... I think the health bar is the way to go... good old health. Though i think it would be cool though if he was very low on health, the screen should go a little fuzzy - like Rainbow Six Vegas and maybe a little darker to simulate his failing health.
 
Old 04-19-2008, 03:48 AM   #27

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lutzifer View Post
For duke i would love, if he gets his health or some boost from cool kills and random acts of senseless violence to show that he lives on his own testosterone / his über-coolness
That's pretty much the ego system used in Manhattan Project and apparently Land of the Babes as well. I think it fits Duke rather well since it makes sense that any thing that makes Duke feel better would increase his health such as eating a snack, drinking a bear, getting a lap dance, taking a piss or simply blowing an aliens head of.
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Old 04-19-2008, 06:32 AM   #28
Re: What system of health???
w00ps. Never really got into playing manhattan, because the 2d-ishness turned me off at the time. Could have saved me at least one line of post above there. Actually two, considering this reply
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:00 PM   #29

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Re: What system of health???
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Originally Posted by Spooger View Post
I don't think it would impact MP that much; other than, again, the player being able to concentrate more on what's happening on screen -- and not micromanaging their health with health packs, etc.
Yes, exactly. It's for people with less attention span. It sucks, dynamically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
Halo had packs and regenerating health, but for Deathmatch, it will get silly when one guy is running away just to get full health after few secs. I have never really been a fan of that type of healthsystem.
Yeah, that's a cheap flaw in the regenerative health system and I've never been a fan of [the whole concept] either.
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Old 04-20-2008, 12:51 AM   #30

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper View Post
Yes, exactly. It's for people with less attention span. It sucks, dynamically.
You heard it here, first: DNF will be a game made for people with no attention span!
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Old 04-20-2008, 01:10 AM   #31

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Re: What system of health???
Whatever 3DRealms deem appropriate I'm sure I'll be fine with, since I'm a fan of both methods of health systems.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:02 AM   #32

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Re: What system of health???
Medpacks are OLD SCHOOL and much better ! most health regain games are too easy and noobish ! healthpacks gives you more adrenaline, no wonder why shooters arent so cool like in the past !
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:46 AM   #33

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Re: What system of health???
As has been mentioned, the ego system tends to be Dukes over all system. I particularly liked the Land of the babes method, where you killed for ego, based on the weapon you'd get a certain amount of ego (kicking someones ass old school gives you more then using an RPG for instance), and then you also had standard health kits and other misc items for boosting the ego (Your portable medkit being Dukes Biography! ).
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:12 AM   #34
Re: What system of health???
A system where your health regenerates based on your actions sounds very cool. That'd be so much better than a system where you hide like a coward and gain health automatically. A Halo-type system wouldn't make sense with Duke anyway since cowering away behind cover shouldn't boost ego.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:34 AM   #35
 
Re: What system of health???
How about gaining health when shot, because of the release of adrenaline? :backwards:
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:53 AM   #36
Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiffer View Post
How about gaining health when shot, because of the release of adrenaline? :backwards:
the only situation where duke should get a benefit from being shot, should be when overwhelmed with enemies, as a rampage / berserk option at low health (or based on map-location / level-design).
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:54 AM   #37

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Re: What system of health???
c'mon don't make duke to an arcade consolish kids game with combos, health regenerator moves etc. just stay for the old medpacks !
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Old 04-20-2008, 06:49 PM   #38

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Re: What system of health???
I demand permanent God mode.
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Old 04-20-2008, 07:54 PM   #39

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commando Nukem View Post
As has been mentioned, the ego system tends to be Dukes over all system. I particularly liked the Land of the babes method, where you killed for ego, based on the weapon you'd get a certain amount of ego (kicking someones ass old school gives you more then using an RPG for instance), and then you also had standard health kits and other misc items for boosting the ego (Your portable medkit being Dukes Biography! ).
Yeah, ego sounds alright [as a health system]. Shouldn't RPG = more gibs = higher ego, though?
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Old 04-21-2008, 09:02 AM   #40

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Re: What system of health???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper View Post
Yeah, ego sounds alright [as a health system]. Shouldn't RPG = more gibs = higher ego, though?
You'd think, I guess its just supposed to act as a counter-balance and such. Keeps you from laming one large weapon, and it also benefits you if all you have is lower fire powering (meaning you might take more damage in a firefight and thusly need more health to keep from dying...etc)
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