'Arcadiness' ?

[froggerdonkey]

Apologies if this has been covered already!
I can't help but think that half the reason I still find D3d so fun is because it has a slight arcade style to it - more specifically, summaries at the end of levels, and things like the lack of 'super lifelike recoil' which, for me at least, tends to ruin the fast-paced fun of some modern shooters; and most of all, MUSIC!!! having a rockin soundtrack makes so much more difference to the fun of a game than having the latest graphics - does anyone remember playing the first few levels of quake2 for the first time? it was ok.. but the music made it awesome. Obviously the whole arcade thing could go too far, I like my 'proper' FPS games as much as anyone.
So what are your thoughts on the subject?

[evanazzo]

Originally Posted by froggerdonkey

Apologies if this has been covered already!
I can't help but think that half the reason I still find D3d so fun is because it has a slight arcade style to it - more specifically, summaries at the end of levels, and things like the lack of 'super lifelike recoil' which, for me at least, tends to ruin the fast-paced fun of some modern shooters; and most of all, MUSIC!!! having a rockin soundtrack makes so much more difference to the fun of a game than having the latest graphics - does anyone remember playing the first few levels of quake2 for the first time? it was ok.. but the music made it awesome. Obviously the whole arcade thing could go too far, I like my 'proper' FPS games as much as anyone.
So what are your thoughts on the subject?

Yeah soundtrack. Talk to Sonic Mayhem about music. They did Quake II and a lot of other games. =)

and the end level stats keep them in. i love them.

[crunchy superman]

I agree completely about music - far, far too few games these days have decent ambient level music. Seems like everybody is trying to create a movie and forgets to have their game be a game.

Unfortunately, if GB holds to what he said ages ago, there will be little or no ambient music in DNF.

[froggerdonkey]

Really? Thats a real shame. I always thought it was a very 'duke' thing.

[vcatkiller]

I remember playing Q2 for the first time. The soundtrack really made that game. When Q4 came out with the largely forgettable cinematic style soundtrack, it was one of the first disappointments I had with it. Actually, add to that Prey, where the only music I can remember is the dukebox at the start. The rest of the music was largely forgettable.

I say bring back the days of a thumping memorable soundtrack. The sort of music where you play the game and have the music stuck in your head all day.

[DeadMG]

I fully agree. Some examples of great music have to be Total Annihilation and D3D. DNF really, really should have some really, really kickass music. Even horror games like System Shock 2 benefitted from some upbeat music (and from not so upbeat music too)

[crunchy superman]

Well, who knows, guys. The last comment he made on this subject was about two versions and probably 20+ employees ago. For all we know, he may have done a complete reversal on this.

[evanazzo]

http://www.sonicmayhem.com/ they did quake 2 soudtrack

[Echo Black]

I still hum some Duke 3D tracks from time to time. Most of the first Episode's tunes actually (Red Light District rules), and Grabbag of course.

These epic movie scores are pretty forgettable for the most part. I'd rather have something more melodic and characteristic than LOTR-style stuff.

[AdamCommando]

I kinda like what they did with Half-Life 2, where it either had a moody silence or the occasional techno music during key scenes.

Even though I like some of the music in Duke 3d, I think having stretches of silence gives games a more immersive feel.

[Danule]

Originally Posted by AdamCommando

I kinda like what they did with Half-Life 2, where it either had a moody silence or the occasional techno music during key scenes.

Even though I like some of the music in Duke 3d, I think having stretches of silence gives games a more immersive feel.

i agree with this man! it would be sweet if during the "intense" parts some loud rocking music would come on, but its nice during quiet times when you are searching the area for it to be quiet so you can hear enemy footsteps and what not.

[evanazzo]

Halo did that.

dont yell at me for mentioning halo

[Antikorper]

musics could have alot of funny referrations.

[vcatkiller]

Originally Posted by Danule

i agree with this man! it would be sweet if during the "intense" parts some loud rocking music would come on, but its nice during quiet times when you are searching the area for it to be quiet so you can hear enemy footsteps and what not.

Silence is ok, if it's accompanied by decent ambient noise. Interestingly enough, I think Doom 3 did this pretty well, where the sounds of the machinery in the background kind of overlapped and became almost musical anyways.

Still, I'd rather have music and then the occasional silence, rather than silence and the occasional music.

[trackit]

for me soundtrack/music during gameplay is not important, it kinda ruins immersion for me. Let there be music in Las Vegas stripclubs etc but i am not fan of that "tam tadam tadam" background music. i usually turn it off in games.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by trackit

for me soundtrack/music during gameplay is not important, it kinda ruins immersion for me. Let there be music in Las Vegas stripclubs etc but i am not fan of that "tam tadam tadam" background music. i usually turn it off in games.

I liked it back in the day but like yourself I just turn it off now

[Malgon]

I remember George saying that there won't be continous level music in DNF. Although it absolutely rocked back in DN3D.

As far as 3DRealms has something which is suitable for the themes of a Duke game, I'd be cool with it.

[vcatkiller]

In that case, it'd be nice to have the music there and the ability to turn it off for those who don't like it. I personally wouldn't, but I guess it boils down to taste.

[Evil_C]

Originally Posted by Malgon

I remember George saying that there won't be continous level music in DNF. Although it absolutely rocked back in DN3D.

Given the incredible amount of interactivity purported to be in the game, it's not out of the question that Duke could find an Ipod or something in game which would play mp3's that are found on the user's hard drive. You would then have a choice of listening to the game environment's ambient sounds/music/whatever or your own favorite tunes (or both) as you blast your way through the game.

[helious]

Originally Posted by evanazzo

Halo did that.

dont yell at me for mentioning halo

Halo did it great.
And why yell at You?

Halo are some of the best games ever made, both according to reviews, and fans.

But please, no arcadiness game (Ie Serious Sam etc). It would ruin DNF. You have to follow the trends.

DNF, which plays from the Half Life 2 / Riddick model. Thath would be nice : )

[Skiffer]

Painkiller had a good blend between ambient/battle-music, but I'm not sure if it's the style they're going for in DNF. I think intro-tracks + ambient sounds is the way to go; meaning, an introductory music piece to set the mood at the start of a chapter/level/whatever and the rest can be heard on speaker systems / radios / in bars in the actual game.

[colmtourque]

Originally Posted by froggerdonkey

Apologies if this has been covered already!
I can't help but think that half the reason I still find D3d so fun is because it has a slight arcade style to it - more specifically, summaries at the end of levels, and things like the lack of 'super lifelike recoil' which, for me at least, tends to ruin the fast-paced fun of some modern shooters; and most of all, MUSIC!!! having a rockin soundtrack makes so much more difference to the fun of a game than having the latest graphics - does anyone remember playing the first few levels of quake2 for the first time? it was ok.. but the music made it awesome. Obviously the whole arcade thing could go too far, I like my 'proper' FPS games as much as anyone.
So what are your thoughts on the subject?

I honestly loved that and miss it it in most games but I'm a nerd.

[Reaper]

I remember (this was quite some time ago) that they said there would be "dynamic music." Now I have no idea what that means, but maybe that can give you an idea of what it'll be like.

I wouldn't mind a cinematic soundtrack. I also think it will be one, given that Jeremy Soule is working on this.

Also, end level stats are a thing of the past. Get with the times, man.

[Zombie_Boy]

I agree with vcatkiller that the ambient sound is key, regardless if there is music present or not. As he mentioned, Doom3 did it pretty well (I'd say they did it to perfection, beating out the classic System Shock 2).. and along with the monster sounds created one very atmospheric game.

If DNF does go without music, then you can beat your ass that it'll have the best ambient sounds seen in other great games.

[Malgon]

Originally Posted by Evil_C

Given the incredible amount of interactivity purported to be in the game, it's not out of the question that Duke could find an Ipod or something in game which would play mp3's that are found on the user's hard drive. You would then have a choice of listening to the game environment's ambient sounds/music/whatever or your own favorite tunes (or both) as you blast your way through the game.

Sounds similar to GTA:SA where it could play your songs while driving around. I'd still listen to what 3DRealms has provided though, since I don't feel my own music would match the game, as it wouldn't properly setup the mood and have me immersed either. Everyone has their preference, and for me it doesn't work to listen to something that isn't a part of the game.

[Caine]

i think each game should also have its own music, gta is an exception !
but duke should have METAL songs like lee jackson did in the past, i still doubt jeremy soule can do it, he mostly did this cheesy orchestra stuff which really gets on my nerves cause most games feature this crap of music you forget after some days.......
ask gamers which music they have in their mind and thats mostly old school stuff, old c&c series, quake (old titles), duke 3d, descent, unreal etc. why? cause they are catchy and not the cinema music feeling which feels boring and forgettable.
in the movie theme it's nearly the same, most people know star wars (1 tune), knight rider, ghostbusters, rambo, rocky etc. but the new ones? well not really so catchy....

i dont want to say orchestra stuff is total crap it fits for worldwar games or something like that, but 3d action games need heart pounding music mostly !

painkiller, unreal tournament 3 or half life (sometimes !) showed us that there is still hope.

[froggerdonkey]

I wonder if the good Mr. Siegler can shed any light on the issue.......nudge wink

[Loke]

Originally Posted by vcatkiller

Still, I'd rather have music and then the occasional silence, rather than silence and the occasional music.

I liked the way the first Unreal game did with the music.
For the most part there's a track playing in the background as you play the game - occasionally you'd enter a new area and the track would come to a complete stop resulting in total silence (except for ambient sounds) in which a enemy/enemies would appear and a upbeat track would begin to play and do so until you finish the level or kill all the enemies.

This is most obvious when you encounter the Skaarj enemy for the first time (complete silence, trapped in a narrow hallway while the lights go out one by one...).

[vcatkiller]

I agree, that was pretty clever. The music in that game managed to set the mood pretty nicely. I remember playing that map the first time and the music just dropping out, accompanied by the *thump* *thump* sound of the overhead lights going out one by one. You're in the silent dark for a second or two, thinking "wtf!" Then you hear the first Skaarj growl and dim red lights kick in, (? from memory?) accompanied by a thumping soundtrack.

Actually there are a number of memorable moments in that game. For some reason the early parts of the game (after you escape the ship onto the planet surface) reminded me eerily of Shadow of the Beast. Not sure why.

[Malgon]

There seems to be a bit of contention regarding music in games. Some people prefer ambience, some want metal, others don't like orchestra and so forth. It's going to be a tough battle for 3DRealms to please people. As long as they can capture that Duke essence, then they're half way there at least imo.

[Caine]

Originally Posted by Malgon

There seems to be a bit of contention regarding music in games. Some people prefer ambience, some want metal, others don't like orchestra and so forth. It's going to be a tough battle for 3DRealms to please people. As long as they can capture that Duke essence, then they're half way there at least imo.

i DON'T think it's hard !!!!

you know if you listen to the old midis and dukes character etc. you should imagine that there should be always action in it. i prefer harder music for duke there were also some orchestrated stuff in duke3d but with so catchy melodies + combination of rock/metal that every tune did made duke3d one of the best soundtracks !
they just need perhaps this potion 75-90 % rock/metal, 5-20 % orchestrated stuff but no boring shit and 5-10 % electronic stuff too ! if i would knew lee jackson would do it again i would be sure this soundtrack will rock with jeremy soule i have high doubts because most of his music doesnt fit to serious action games.

if somebody dont like music he should just turn it off...

[ReadOnly]

Oh, please not the HL2-type soundtrack. Maybe ambient music was not bad(though, it's better to have LOTS of ambient sounds than music in background. Especially in FPS genre), but the battle one... Terrible. Either have NO music during battles or have something epic/emotional when the battle is significant. These techno-beat music during battles just crap.
Thank goodness, you could turn off battle music in Painkiller and leave wonderful ambient one, which was also great to listen during hordes of enemies coming your way.
Personally, I would prefer either no music at all or approach similar to Doom3.

[froggerdonkey]

I have to agree with the 'techno' thing, that was pretty gay. But I find the epic, cinematic music almost embarassing, I mean, I'm playing A GAME. It should be fun. With a hard rockin meaty soundtrack of paaaaaain!!!

[ReadOnly]

Originally Posted by froggerdonkey

I have to agree with the 'techno' thing, that was pretty gay. But I find the epic, cinematic music almost embarassing, I mean, I'm playing A GAME. It should be fun. With a hard rockin meaty soundtrack of paaaaaain!!!

It depends on the game. Recently I've played Halo: Combat Evolved. Epic music there was appropriate.

Btw, DNF 2001 trailer had epic feel and epic music. As I said, it depends.
Nevertheless, epic music(or even music in general) shouldn't be overused. It's really good at certain moments or game.

[evanazzo]

Originally Posted by ReadOnly

It depends on the game. Recently I've played Halo: Combat Evolved. Epic music there was appropriate.

I loved how Halo did its music. I also like how they did Multiplayer. But the music (for me) is where it shined