What you think it will happen in court ?

[WoodenSword]

Ok, the question is simple! According to you what do you think that it will happen with the complaint of Take Two against 3d realms?

[Arexx]

I think it will go to court. I can't see any restraining order place on the game though, not when T2 only had publishing rights and nothing more, especially given there was never a completion date set (except for perhaps since 2008).

3DRealms could easily win this, but I could also see Take 2 winning a small amount, anywhere from $400K to a few million if the courts feel the game isn't going to be finished and that 3DRealms owes them something. And legally, they do owe them a game, the question is, how much is 3DRealms liable for? The initial amount paid, or ?

[Babe]

3D Realms will most probably have to pay a fine to Take 2 and will keep the IP with themselves.

As for the fine amount, the minimum amount will most probably be 3 million ( 2.5 mill taken from Take 2 directly and 400,000 taken from GTI ) or higher if the court decides to fine 3DR for 13 years of slackness. I belive after the fine is paid, 3DR will most probably be free to walk away from the publishing deal since they arleady paid a fine and will be in a position to take a new publisher.

That is what my commonsense says.

[Kelshir]

Originally Posted by Arexx

I think it will go to court. I can't see any restraining order place on the game though, not when T2 only had publishing rights and nothing more, especially given there was never a completion date set (except for perhaps since 2008).

3DRealms could easily win this, but I could also see Take 2 winning a small amount, anywhere from $400K to a few million if the courts feel the game isn't going to be finished and that 3DRealms owes them something. And legally, they do owe them a game, the question is, how much is 3DRealms liable for? The initial amount paid, or ?

In theory (depending on what the contract says) 3DRealms could be liable for the full amount Take2 could prove they could have earned.

If they can prove (based on sales, figures, etc, whatever) that DNF would have sold 1,000,000 copies at $50 per copy for $50,000,000 and their take is half, then they can sue (depending on contracts) for $25,000,000.

That is what people need to be careful of. You can be sued for both actual damages and/or the loss of possible future gains (monetary or otherwise).

[Phayzon]

Not to try and soud bias, but I really cant see 3DR losing this case.

[prophecy holder]

Suprised someone hasn't sued 3DR for emotional and psychological damage. There is also someone crazy enough to do it lol.

[Jiminator]

#7 gay marriage ban overturned

[Scotty]

#8: Who gives a rats' ass?

[GOK]

Where's the "None of the above" and "All of the above" choices?

[vcatkiller]

#9 3DR and Take 2 will break down and cry outside the court. Apologies, hugs and tears will be had all round, then everybody will go off for ice cream.

[lordlonelobo]

Originally Posted by GOK

Where's the "None of the above" and "All of the above" choices?

Take 2 and 3DR both win and lose the case, the injunction is both granted and dismissed, they settle out of court and the case gets dismissed?

It would be a very unusual case.

[dukeMadness]

Originally Posted by vcatkiller

#9 3dr and take 2 will break down and cry outside the court. Apologies, hugs and tears will be had all round, then everybody will go off for ice cream.

lol!!!

[trucedAnimal]

Originally Posted by GOK

Where's the "None of the above" and "All of the above" choices?

"All of the above" would have to be above "None of the above". Else it would not make sense.

[shiranui]

#10 3DRs' lawyer tells the oppositions' lawyer to STFU!

[jaimie10]

Originally Posted by Phayzon

Not to try and soud bias, but I really cant see 3DR losing this case.

Of course 3DR will win. When T2 decided to sue 3DR it was done on a whim. They just decided to sue them because they were bored and wanted some fun. They pay their lawyers bucket loads of cash to advise them on various legal matters and despite T2 being advised not to sue, they went ahead and decided to anyway. Just because they felt like it. Yes they will incur significant costs taking 3DR to court, but hell you only live once right.

[Crosma]

Originally Posted by jaimie10

Of course 3DR will win. When T2 decided to sue 3DR it was done on a whim.

Tee-hee.

Unless you've read the contracts, you're not in a position to guess with any accuracy. There's little point.

[Ordinary]

The thread title should be "What do you wish..."

Originally Posted by GOK

Where's the "None of the above" and "All of the above" choices?

lol. Those options should be in any democratic poll.

[prophecy holder]

#31; The judge tells George to stfu and to remind him that he is not Duke nukem. Then he tells him to release DNF by the end of the year or he'll be beaten up by three midgets in clown suits.

[jet jaguar 2.0]

George takes the stand in his own defense and for 4 hours spends time stepping into and out of the witness stand while he cross examines himself. Soaked in sweat and other bodily fluids he breathlessly asks the judge for a recess so he can refill on beer and burritos. After recess he re-enters the courtroom dressed only in a t-shirt and black knee high socks and continues his self-cross examination as if nothing was out of the ordinary.

[WoodenSword]

Originally Posted by GOK

Where's the "None of the above" and "All of the above" choices?

Well i am pretty sure that "all of the above" is not necessary...

I don't know about the none of the above, i thought that i had covered any possible outcome in general terms. What other possible outcome do you think it is missing??????

Originally Posted by Ordinary

The thread title should be "What do you wish..."
lol. Those options should be in any democratic poll.

Yes, it seems so ....Deciding at the hearing to settle the complaint out of court is a possible scenario though.

[JamesCassidy]

Take Two and 3DR has no direct contract other than publishing rights which has nothing to do with the development. Take Two lost nothing from this while 3DR lost almost everything.

That is the truth. You guys have to look at where the money was exchanged to and from. If Take two gave Apogee money and was distributed to MANY other projects not just DNF, then that is the downfall of Take two.

Take into example the profits they got from other things that money went to. That's mean that money was given was in several exchanged hands and thus everyone is equally at fault.

Making video games for this generation are expensive....very expensive. A mere $2.5 million can't make one game let alone several unless the game made was very simple.

[Drazula]

#666 GB's recent a$$hole transplant rejects him, and walks out the door. Everyone sees GB is back to normal and ready to complete DNF.

[WoodenSword]

It would be nice to hear the opinion of a lawyer (or a judge! )....

[Jiminator]

opinions are worth the toilet paper that they are wiped on.
they can't tell you anything without seeing the contracts between the two parties.

[WoodenSword]

Originally Posted by Jiminator

opinions are worth the toilet paper that they are wiped on.
they can't tell you anything without seeing the contracts between the two parties.

Yes i agree, but they can tell you how likely is the case to be dismissed from the hearing, if negotiating out of court is a very possible scenario and so on...

[lordlonelobo]

Originally Posted by WoodenSword

Yes i agree, but they can tell you how likely is the case to be dismissed from the hearing, if negotiating out of court is a very possible scenario and so on...

Opinions don't determine these things. The likelihood of it going to court is down to the Judge and whether the law would consider it a frivolous case, not his opinion. He could be the biggest Duke fan alive, but if Take 2 has a case, he would be forced to allow it to continue to court.

Edit - I wonder why Take 2 sued in Manhattan? I realize that's probably where they're located, but usually you need to sue in the district of the defendant, which would be Garland, or somewhere nearby.

[Derfernet]

Originally Posted by lordlonelobo

Opinions don't determine these things. The likelihood of it going to court is down to the Judge and whether the law would consider it a frivolous case, not his opinion. He could be the biggest Duke fan alive, but if Take 2 has a case, he would be forced to allow it to continue to court.

Edit - I wonder why Take 2 sued in Manhattan? I realize that's probably where they're located, but usually you need to sue in the district of the defendant, which would be Garland, or somewhere nearby.

And won't George and/or Scott have to pay for tickets to there as well? Doesn't exactly seem fair.

[lordlonelobo]

not necessarily. A lawyer can represent you without you being present, I believe.

[CoR]

The remaining executives at Duke Nukem Forever developer 3D Realms have responded to the charges levied against them by DNF publisher Take-Two, stating that 3DR never received funds from Take-Two for DNF until a payment in 2008.

"Take-Two never paid 3DR advances or any signing bonus or any other funds related to DNF, up until July 2008, at which time they paid $2.5m in connection with another agreement for an unannounced game," added the company. "This is the sum total Take-Two has paid 3DR in connection with DNF."

hmm?! Not enough information to determine what's going to happen, this 2008 agreement seems to be the deal breaker. (Need details.)

At the May 2001 E3, 3D Realms released a second video that showed a couple of minutes of in-game footage,[8] which notably showed the player moving in a what appears to be Las Vegas and a certain level of interactivity (the player buys a sandwich from a vending machine and pushing the keypads). In August, Gathering of Developers shut down its offices and Take-Two Interactive took over the publishing rights for DNF.

If T2 wants to pay 12 million dollars to another company,(infogrames*) for a $400,000 publishing contract, with a when it's done release date, that's their risky investment. Then they wait 7 or so years, and strike a contract directly with the company 3DR, that has not yet delivered DNF. Then turn around and take them to court..


I highly doubt 3DR agreed to any launch date for $2.5m. As far as I know the game is done when it's done regardless of another company's expectations. T2 has already waited this long, and struck other deals with the company. T2 knows how this company operates, and on paper accepts it. The production of DNF could be argued as on hold.

Again we need more details but from the public information we have thus far, I think 3DR has this unless a judge would actually consider this a contractual breach, after knowing the whole story. I feel bad for 3DR, and the people that are or were employed there. They "self funded" a game shit happened. They didn't invest 20+ million dollars into this game, and purposely jerk us around, and put the company on the chopping block.

I hope the game is done, and 3DR just wanted to get 5mill out of T2, but only time will tell.

EDIT: The $400,000 was a signing bonus.

Take-Two claims that they paid $12m to GT Interactive/Infogrames to acquire the publishing rights for the DNF game. To be clear, 3DR was not a party to that transaction and did not receive any money from it. When the DNF game was originally signed with GT Interactive in 1998, GT paid 3DR a $400,000 signing bonus. Up until July 2008, this was the only publisher money we received for the DNF game. Meanwhile, 3DR put over $20m into the production of DNF.

So basically T2 gets publishing rights, in return 3DR got shit.

[3rdmillhouse]

The restraining order was never aproved in the first place. I think the latest press release on Shacknews already clarifies that.

[WoodenSword]

Originally Posted by 3rdmillhouse

The restraining order was never aproved in the first place. I think the latest press release on Shacknews already clarifies that.

oh god not again...

see wieder's relevant comment at shacknews

http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19959166

[crunchy superman]

What you think it will happen in court ?

It doesn't matter, at least as far as DNF is concerned.

[SplatterHappy]

Originally Posted by 3rdmillhouse

The restraining order was never aproved in the first place. I think the latest press release on Shacknews already clarifies that.

Originally Posted by WoodenSword

oh god not again...

see wieder's relevant comment at shacknews

http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19959166

Mr Wieder is indeed correct. The order was denied with an "oral argument directed" stamped and initialed by the judge.

The hearing on June 4th is for Take Two's lawyers to make their argument as to why the injunction should be granted, and for 3DR's lawyers to make a counter argument. That's all it's for, and the outcome of this will decide if anything whatsoever can be done with all the DNF code or if it's to be essentially frozen until the outcome of the case.

Nothing else about the case will be argued on the 4th.. the court documents make that abundantly clear.

If our fellow forumites can't keep this tiny fact straight, I shudder to think what will happen when the case gets underway..

[Tualmasok]

I can't see Take 2 winning against 3DR in the normal sense, although whatever happens will probably be financially "acceptable" to Take 2.

Even if 3D Realms only cops a fine and gets away with the DNF source and IP, how the hell are they going to fund the development?

Isn't that the snag they have already hit?!?

[jaimie10]

This is a hoax. DNF will appear at E3.

[Kelshir]

Originally Posted by jaimie10

This is a hoax. DNF will appear at E3.

Denial, what a wonderful thing.

And once it is not there this year, you will believe it to be there next year.

[jaimie10]

Originally Posted by Kelshir

Denial, what a wonderful thing.

And once it is not there this year, you will believe it to be there next year.

Nope. If it's not a hoax then DNF is finished.

[Monkey Butler]

How do we keep getting back to the same old misinformation and outright ignorance of how the law works?

[edithegodfather]

Don't forget that dnf's been in developement for over 12 years.
And what happens if the judge is a serious sam fan ?

[Later]

But considering 3d realms would sue take 2 the fact that they had the game like 99,9% finished and take 2 just stopped financig them and started holding dnf for themselves wouldn't be a pretty strong argument against the bastards? :-/

[3rdmillhouse]

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

How do we keep getting back to the same old misinformation and outright ignorance of how the law works?

Give me a break, I'm not american, so I have no idea how your judicial system works.