A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? - Page 3

MegaMustaine · 12-05-2009, 03:31 PM

No. The case was deemed to be in the federal jurisdiction and not the state.

RuskiSnajper. · 12-05-2009, 06:29 PM

There is still no trace of it ... Im searching

Found Something

Seem that you need a PACER account to access

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/cou...ase_id-346565/

fast-1 · 12-05-2009, 09:13 PM

Unreal ed is the engine which makes lots of games.

Nearly everyone

I've tried making maps with Unreal Ed ( Unreal 2004 SDK) , it's tough to use.
Add and Subtract, So you change the raw data with games like DNF. Where can I get good help with mapping. I always mess up.

Going off topic for a bit

Rapture_Rising · 12-05-2009, 11:39 PM

I found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_disponendi

Quote:

specially, in the law relating to sales of goods, where it is often a question whether the vendor of goods has the intention of reserving to himself the jus disponendi; i. e., of preventing the ownership from passing to the purchaser, notwithstanding that he (the vendor) has parted with the possession of the goods

DerricktheW · 12-05-2009, 11:59 PM

So... 3DRealms is basically winning. Is gonna keep the IP.

Greeeeeeaaaaat. What would this even mean? 12 more years?

Yatta · 12-06-2009, 12:16 AM

http://www.shapirosher.com/news/Remo...deralCourt.htm

Crosma · 12-06-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerricktheW

Is gonna keep the IP.

Take Two have no rights to the property and aren't fighting for it. They're fighting for damages.

Also, it doesn't mean that anyone's winning so far.

Conan of Cooma · 12-06-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosma

Take Two have no rights to the property and aren't fighting for it. They're fighting for damages.

Also, it doesn't mean that anyone's winning so far.

True, but if T2 win damages, how is 3DR going to pay, especially when they couldn't even finish DNF and had to lay off the team?

Duke IP would be worth if for them. And if 3DR has no cash, they may no choice...

MegaMustaine · 12-06-2009, 11:57 PM

Thing is, there is no case if Duke is being worked on and close to being finished as 3DR seems to be hinting at. Continual work on DNF when the game has to be out by Oct. 2012 means that T2 has no case. The only way they have something is if they can prove that the game won't be out before that 2012 deadline, and I have seen many a budget game finished in a year or less. T2 really has no case at this point, IMO.

SlickSTi · 12-07-2009, 01:35 AM

Hey guys. Yes I'm new here. I've been lurking the forums for years though I just never had anything of interest to post until now.

I've been looking around to see if I can find any info about "D-Day". Along the way I did notice some things.

D-Day appears to be the original name of DN4. I didn't remember that but if you look on IGN there is a listing for it with all of the old screenshots on the old engine.

http://ps2.ign.com/objects/015/015547.html

Looking at this I also notice that N-Space is listed as the developer and respectively 3D Realms is listed as a co-developer. I had never heard of them before. Obviously they're not as big as THQ or some of the other names being thrown around but maybe they took over development of DN4 and renamed it.

The other possibility that crossed my mind is maybe they have been continuing development on the old engine, hence the old name. This would explain George's comment "you may get your wishes" regarding a game going back to Duke's roots.

Kristian Joensen · 12-07-2009, 02:32 AM

SlickSTi, D-Day was not another name for DNF it was a separate game developed, as you have noticed, by N-Space. It was to take place in WW2. N-Space was the dev studio behind Duke Nukem Time To Kill and Land Of The Babes.

Monkey Butler · 12-07-2009, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

T2 really has no case at this point, IMO.

Why, because 3DR says so? Of course that's going to be their defence (not that they need one, burden of proof lies with T2) and T2 has to prove otherwise. Beyond that, we don't know anything, and statements like "T2 has no case" is just fanwanking.

SlickSTi · 12-07-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

SlickSTi, D-Day was not another name for DNF it was a separate game developed, as you have noticed, by N-Space. It was to take place in WW2. N-Space was the dev studio behind Duke Nukem Time To Kill and Land Of The Babes.

That explains why I didn't remember that. I guess IGN's page is just inaccurate. Still. Why use the name D-Day? Coincidence or totally unrelated? What about George's comment?

ReadOnly · 12-07-2009, 09:15 AM

Because they have it trademarked?

Micki! · 12-07-2009, 10:20 AM

Pretty much, it's a name they still own, and it was for a game that never saw the light of day... It's not impossible to resurrect an old name and use it for something new afterall...

Conan of Cooma · 12-07-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micki!

Pretty much, it's a name they still own, and it was for a game that never saw the light of day... It's not impossible to resurrect an old name and use it for something new afterall...

Hmmm. CoD + Duke?

Dubious.

MegaMustaine · 12-07-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

Why, because 3DR says so? Of course that's going to be their defence (not that they need one, burden of proof lies with T2) and T2 has to prove otherwise. Beyond that, we don't know anything, and statements like "T2 has no case" is just fanwanking.

My point is that the contractual date set is way too far in the future IMO for T2 to take 3DR to court and win. The whole case rests upon the game being developed and released before Oct. 2012, and that date is a long ways off.

SlickSTi · 12-07-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

My point is that the contractual date set is way too far in the future IMO for T2 to take 3DR to court and win. The whole case rests upon the game being developed and released before Oct. 2012, and that date is a long ways off.

I would laugh if they release what they have right now as "D-Day" and then release an addon\expansion called "Forever" in 2012 which they give Take Two their publishing rights for.

Monkey Butler · 12-08-2009, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

My point is that the contractual date set is way too far in the future IMO for T2 to take 3DR to court and win. The whole case rests upon the game being developed and released before Oct. 2012, and that date is a long ways off.

Yes it's a long way off, but we are privy to exactly zero information regarding 3DR's finances or production schedule. Obviously, T2 have some information that has persuaded them that 3DR won't be able to finish the game in time. Obviously, 3DR aim to prove them wrong. Beyond that, we don't know jack.

Crosma · 12-09-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

The whole case rests upon the game being developed and released before Oct. 2012, and that date is a long ways off.

Do you "reasonably" believe that 3D Realms will finish Duke Nukem Forever by October 2012?

This is a civil court, so that's the only question that matters. Everything else hinges off the answer to this question.

Let's look at it this way: 3D Realms began development in 1997, and claimed that they'd release it in 1998, then in 1999, then in 2000, then in 2001, then in 2003 (before Unreal 2), then in 2004 (before Doom 3), then they fired the development staff in 2009 after over five years of basically saying nothing about the game to anyone.

So, do you "reasonably" believe that someone who has promised you a product on countless occasions over 12 years without delivering could be "reasonably" expected to deliver it if given an extra few years? Even though they told you that you'd have it over ten years ago? After being 14 years late in total?

It's 3D Realms that will need to convince the court that they have a plan, because the figures are way out of their favour.

RuskiSnajper. · 12-10-2009, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosma

Do you "reasonably" believe that 3D Realms will finish Duke Nukem Forever by October 2012?
It's 3D Realms that will need to convince the court that they have a plan, because the figures are way out of their favour.

It's their game, their IP , their company , they can do whatever and however long they want , regardless of Take Two publishing rights nor the current lawsuit. Take Two just doesn't want to lose money , that 12 million T2 paid to GT interactive for the publishing rights tells me nothing more than a "bad investment" for T2 , so T2 just needs to stfu imo. Always bet on Duke.

Monkey Butler · 12-10-2009, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuskiSnajper.

It's their game, their IP , their company , they can do whatever and however long they want , regardless of Take Two publishing rights nor the current lawsuit

They could do whatever they wanted right up until they signed a contract stating that they'd perform certain duties. It's really not that hard to understand.

Conan of Cooma · 12-10-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

They could do whatever they wanted right up until they signed a contract stating that they'd perform certain duties. It's really not that hard to understand.

How true. The statement "Legally Binding Contract" springs to mind.

Looking about the forums, it seems that 3DR has STFU, IMO.

MegaMustaine · 12-10-2009, 07:01 PM

No, they don't. They have until Oct 2012 to finish the game, period. T2 really doesn't have anything unless they can get a federal court to agree that 3DR cannot finish the game in that amount of time. Getting a judge to agree to that is highly unlikely, especially if work continues on the game in one form or another as has been hinted at.

Conan of Cooma · 12-10-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

No, they don't. They have until Oct 2012 to finish the game, period. T2 really doesn't have anything unless they can get a federal court to agree that 3DR cannot finish the game in that amount of time. Getting a judge to agree to that is highly unlikely, especially if work continues on the game in one form or another as has been hinted at.

You must have inside information that Take 2 doesn't have access to. Letting off the dev team because they can't afford to continue developing DNF is a pretty good indicator that the game won't be going very far any time soon.

You know the million monkeys and their type writers? Well, take away the type writers, the ink, the paper and the monkeys. How far is the game gonna get without them?

What? You think one gambling monkey can do it?

---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Sorry former DNF developers, you are not monkeys.

I mutilated that analogy. But someone had to do it.

zwieback · 12-11-2009, 04:11 AM

you are so wrong for so many reasons. if this would be the only gamestudio out there and if there would be absolutly no interest in duke nukem forever at all, i would agree.

Duke's New Chainsaw · 12-11-2009, 05:15 PM

Duke Nukem is Forever !!

StrikerMan780 · 12-12-2009, 12:33 PM

It seemed DNF was going fine, on the right track, and cruising along in development the last year or so before ******* Take 2 pulled the rug out from underneath them through the means of a shitty business deal. Do you seriously think 3DR had a choice but to lay off their employees after that?

Anyhow, since the economy has recovered a little, and is slowly getting better, things might look up in some cases on the financial side of things. You also got to consider that 3DR has never lost a court case before, amongst the many they have faced in their history as a company. They may even be cunning enough to turn Take 2's case against them. Another thing worth noting, some 3DR Employees very much enjoyed working on the game(And IIRC, I've read someone saying they'd even be willing to work on DNF without pay, just for fun. Can't remember exactly where I saw this.)... so it wouldn't surprise me if there is someone contributing something here and there behind the scenes, not as an actual employee.

3DR has been one hell of an unpredictable company throughout it's history, so who knows what they have up their sleeves/ass/whatever.

Conan of Cooma · 12-14-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrikerMan780

It seemed DNF was going fine, on the right track, and cruising along in development the last year or so before ******* Take 2 pulled the rug out from underneath them through the means of a shitty business deal. Do you seriously think 3DR had a choice but to lay off their employees after that?

No rug was pulled by Take 2. Extra funding was DENIED by Take 2.

After 12 years, I would say that is fair enough.

Rapture_Rising · 12-14-2009, 10:24 PM

Why does everyone hate T2 at the moment?

It was 3DR's fault that development took so long that everyone had to be fired and nearly brought 3DR to the point of bankruptcy (although they didnt admit this).

Nowhere official, have i read that T2 is trying to take the Duke Nukem IP, they are trying to take over development to get DNF finished and out the door and IMHO T2 are trying harder then 3DR to get DNF finished.

Teasing is all fun and games for about the first 2 weeks but anything after that just starts to piss people off, Either tell us what you have planned or stop teasing.

Rockn-Roll · 12-14-2009, 11:12 PM

If there was even a glimmer of hope then you would hear it first from George Broussard at http://twitter.com/GeorgeB3DR
But, his twitter has slacked off lately...he's not even playing cards...at least not mentioning it. There is nothing happening on the DNF horizon at all. I'll check back in a year.

prophecy holder · 12-15-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapture_Rising

Why does everyone hate T2 at the moment?

It was 3DR's fault that development took so long that everyone had to be fired and nearly brought 3DR to the point of bankruptcy (although they didnt admit this).

Nowhere official, have i read that T2 is trying to take the Duke Nukem IP, they are trying to take over development to get DNF finished and out the door and IMHO T2 are trying harder then 3DR to get DNF finished.

Teasing is all fun and games for about the first 2 weeks but anything after that just starts to piss people off, Either tell us what you have planned or stop teasing.

Just the few fanboys left who feel it's thier job/duty to defend 3D Realms at all cost.

Conan of Cooma · 12-15-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophecy holder

Just the few fanboys left who feel it's thier job/duty to defend 3D Realms at all cost.

The fandom is deserved, they have produced some awesome games. The devotion...

Well...

It's not reciprocated.

punk_guy182 · 12-19-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockn-Roll

If there was even a glimmer of hope then you would hear it first from George Broussard at http://twitter.com/GeorgeB3DR
But, his twitter has slacked off lately...he's not even playing cards...at least not mentioning it. There is nothing happening on the DNF horizon at all. I'll check back in a year.

LOL That's a very good idea

12-05-2009, 03:31 PM	#81
MegaMustaine	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? No. The case was deemed to be in the federal jurisdiction and not the state. __________________ This signature is a 77/100!

12-05-2009, 06:29 PM	#82
RuskiSnajper.	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? There is still no trace of it ... Im searching Found Something Seem that you need a PACER account to access http://dockets.justia.com/docket/cou...ase_id-346565/ __________________ Duke Nukem Lives Forever! Last edited by RuskiSnajper.; 12-05-2009 at 07:10 PM.

12-05-2009, 09:13 PM	#83
fast-1	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? Unreal ed is the engine which makes lots of games. Nearly everyone I've tried making maps with Unreal Ed ( Unreal 2004 SDK) , it's tough to use. Add and Subtract, So you change the raw data with games like DNF. Where can I get good help with mapping. I always mess up. Going off topic for a bit __________________ Ha what a day.:D

12-05-2009, 11:59 PM	#85
DerricktheW	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? So... 3DRealms is basically winning. Is gonna keep the IP. Greeeeeeaaaaat. What would this even mean? 12 more years?

12-06-2009, 12:16 AM	#86
Yatta	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? http://www.shapirosher.com/news/Remo...deralCourt.htm __________________ Visit Duke4.net - The largest Duke Nukem fan community on the net!

12-06-2009, 11:57 PM	#89
MegaMustaine	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? Thing is, there is no case if Duke is being worked on and close to being finished as 3DR seems to be hinting at. Continual work on DNF when the game has to be out by Oct. 2012 means that T2 has no case. The only way they have something is if they can prove that the game won't be out before that 2012 deadline, and I have seen many a budget game finished in a year or less. T2 really has no case at this point, IMO. __________________ This signature is a 77/100!

12-07-2009, 01:35 AM	#90
SlickSTi	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? Hey guys. Yes I'm new here. I've been lurking the forums for years though I just never had anything of interest to post until now. I've been looking around to see if I can find any info about "D-Day". Along the way I did notice some things. D-Day appears to be the original name of DN4. I didn't remember that but if you look on IGN there is a listing for it with all of the old screenshots on the old engine. http://ps2.ign.com/objects/015/015547.html Looking at this I also notice that N-Space is listed as the developer and respectively 3D Realms is listed as a co-developer. I had never heard of them before. Obviously they're not as big as THQ or some of the other names being thrown around but maybe they took over development of DN4 and renamed it. The other possibility that crossed my mind is maybe they have been continuing development on the old engine, hence the old name. This would explain George's comment "you may get your wishes" regarding a game going back to Duke's roots.

12-07-2009, 02:32 AM	#91
Kristian Joensen	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? SlickSTi, D-Day was not another name for DNF it was a separate game developed, as you have noticed, by N-Space. It was to take place in WW2. N-Space was the dev studio behind Duke Nukem Time To Kill and Land Of The Babes. __________________ The Philosophy Of Liberty, Chaos Theory Tachyons, Time Travel, and Divine Omniscience A Refutation of Moral Relativism(Transcript)

12-07-2009, 09:15 AM	#94
ReadOnly	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? Because they have it trademarked?

12-07-2009, 10:20 AM	#95
Micki!	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? Pretty much, it's a name they still own, and it was for a game that never saw the light of day... It's not impossible to resurrect an old name and use it for something new afterall... __________________ A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'

12-10-2009, 07:01 PM	#104
MegaMustaine	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? No, they don't. They have until Oct 2012 to finish the game, period. T2 really doesn't have anything unless they can get a federal court to agree that 3DR cannot finish the game in that amount of time. Getting a judge to agree to that is highly unlikely, especially if work continues on the game in one form or another as has been hinted at. __________________ This signature is a 77/100!

12-11-2009, 04:11 AM	#106
zwieback	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? you are so wrong for so many reasons. if this would be the only gamestudio out there and if there would be absolutly no interest in duke nukem forever at all, i would agree. __________________ They Live - "Brother, life's a b*tch, and she's back in heat!" <- put that in forever.. please :)

12-11-2009, 05:15 PM	#107
Duke's New Chainsaw	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? Duke Nukem is Forever !! __________________ The Great Communicator!

12-12-2009, 12:33 PM	#108
StrikerMan780	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? It seemed DNF was going fine, on the right track, and cruising along in development the last year or so before ******* Take 2 pulled the rug out from underneath them through the means of a shitty business deal. Do you seriously think 3DR had a choice but to lay off their employees after that? Anyhow, since the economy has recovered a little, and is slowly getting better, things might look up in some cases on the financial side of things. You also got to consider that 3DR has never lost a court case before, amongst the many they have faced in their history as a company. They may even be cunning enough to turn Take 2's case against them. Another thing worth noting, some 3DR Employees very much enjoyed working on the game(And IIRC, I've read someone saying they'd even be willing to work on DNF without pay, just for fun. Can't remember exactly where I saw this.)... so it wouldn't surprise me if there is someone contributing something here and there behind the scenes, not as an actual employee. 3DR has been one hell of an unpredictable company throughout it's history, so who knows what they have up their sleeves/ass/whatever. Last edited by StrikerMan780; 12-12-2009 at 12:39 PM.

12-14-2009, 10:24 PM	#110
Rapture_Rising	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? Why does everyone hate T2 at the moment? It was 3DR's fault that development took so long that everyone had to be fired and nearly brought 3DR to the point of bankruptcy (although they didnt admit this). Nowhere official, have i read that T2 is trying to take the Duke Nukem IP, they are trying to take over development to get DNF finished and out the door and IMHO T2 are trying harder then 3DR to get DNF finished. Teasing is all fun and games for about the first 2 weeks but anything after that just starts to piss people off, Either tell us what you have planned or stop teasing. __________________ Here we go folks... The rarest creature in nature... The Duketard. I will now approach him very quitely and... Jam my thumb in his butt hole. That should REALLY piss him off!.

12-14-2009, 11:12 PM	#111
Rockn-Roll	Re: A glimmer of hope - DNF back on track? If there was even a glimmer of hope then you would hear it first from George Broussard at http://twitter.com/GeorgeB3DR But, his twitter has slacked off lately...he's not even playing cards...at least not mentioning it. There is nothing happening on the DNF horizon at all. I'll check back in a year.