Would it be possible to "port" Doom to RoTT?

[Darkman 4]

Over at Doomworld, someone posted an interesting port of Doom to a modified Wolf3D engine. It got me thinking if RoTT could be used to make a Doom "port".

So my question is; could it be possible to "port" Doom to the RoTT engine like the mod I linked to does? I'm sure that work with the source code would be required, but that's pretty obvious. I think it would go pretty smoothly except for making the inventory system work like Doom's and making Doom-style ammo pickups. What do you guys think?

[jbailey]

It's probably possible, but it would be a *LOT* of work....

[MrFlibble]

Originally Posted by Darkman 4

I think it would go pretty smoothly except for making the inventory system work like Doom's and making Doom-style ammo pickups. What do you guys think?

What exactly would be the reason for doing that? The weapon/inventory system that is different from that of Doom is one of the major things that makes ROTT stand out in the crowd of "Doom clones". The engine, on the other hand, has certain limitations that make it less flexible than id Tech 1.

[Player Lin]

What? Just make a ROTT TC with DooM engine is enough I guess...

Wait, someone already did...

[MrFlibble]

Originally Posted by Player Lin

What? Just make a ROTT TC with DooM engine is enough I guess...

Wait, someone already did...

Isn't this exactly the opposite of what the OP suggested?

[MrBlackCat]

I came back to re-read the OP as the above link had me a bit cOmFuSeD...

While the link provided by Player Lin to the port of ROTT to DooM is pretty amazing, it does seem to be the opposite of what is desired by the OP.

I guess it wouldn't be the internet if someone wasn't smug over something they are wrong about.

MrBlackCat

[MrFlibble]

Going back to the OP, in fact, I have absolutely nothing against "demake"-ish ports to less advanced engines (remember that unauthorized Sega Genesis port of Duke Nukem 3D?), it's that ROTT and Doom feel very different despite being generally in the same genre category. While using the Doom engine for a ROTT remake is obviously advantageous (as proved by Return of the Triad), doing the opposite seems a wee bit strange to me, although come to think of it, if you imagine a game with Doom monsters and ROTT gameplay, that could have been really awesome

[MrBlackCat]

I constantly watch for an inexpensive copy of that Duke 3D Genesis. Actually, that is the only version of Duke Nukem I am aware of, that I don't own. Some day.

Rise of the Triad and DooM are indeed very different, at least in my mind relative to First Person Shooters.
This makes me think of those Wolfenstein secret levels in DooM II? As someone who was greatly inspired by Wolfenstein 3D, that was an over-the-top experience for me finding those in the middle of DooM II!

I would not try to discourage people from trying anything like that... but many ideas which seem "good", only seem that way because they are not thought out.

I would agree that mixing the two, as with many games, might be of interest.

I still would like to have seen a hidden level in DooM 3 be a trip backward into DooM for instance. But immediately, most will realize this "would not fit" as DooM 3 was too "serious" for a break like that... at least compared to DooM and Wolfenstein 3D.

The concept of Retro-Levels would have fit into Duke Nukem Forever I think...
"WTF? Another Time machine... and its activated... and its set to 1995!" The POOF! Back E1M1 of Duke Nukem 3D with another portal that kicks you back at the end... Duke Nukem Forever can't be accused of taking itself too seriously I think.

MrBlackCat

[MrFlibble]

Heh, actually, I've never realized I have some quite peculiar associations with particular games, but turns out my mind does go as follows:

Doom mod for Wolfenstein 3-D? Cool.
ROTT remake on the Doom engine? Cool.
Doom mod for ROTT? Weird.

But of course, somewhere deep in my mind there's also a thought that you could do any of the above games using the Build engine

On another note (speaking of the secret Wolf 3-D levels in Doom II, I've always thought that it could've been quite nice for Duke Nukem 3D to have secret levels that are tribute to either ROTT or Blake Stone. I'm sure a Blake Stone level recreation with Pig Cops instead of "Rent-a-Cop" security guards wouldn't be out of place

Oh, and I also would like to stress that even though I've used the phrase "less advanced engine" in a previous post when referring to a possible Doom to ROTT TC, I do not actually view the ROTT engine as less advanced, it's just different, and because of that some things that you can do with id Tech 1 cannot be replicated in ROTT. For example, levels that have both indoor and outdoor areas, although indoor areas can be "simulated" on an outdoor map with either very high walls so that the ceiling (or rather, its absence) is never in the player's view, or with the catwalks, although I think they also have some placement limitations (I don't remember catwalks that would be more than one tile wide, although I'm not 100% sure on this).

BTW, another random thought: do you know if the engine used in ShadowCaster is the same thing as the ROTT engine, or is it different? I remember there's stuff like underwater areas with a similar principle as in Duke Nukem 3D, and it generally feels pretty advanced for its time.

[X-Vector]

http://www.ravensoft.com/games/ShadowCaster/view-game/

[MrFlibble]

It only says there that

It utilized a hybrid engine that was created by Id Software's John Carmack as a successor of the Wolfenstein 3-D technology and the predecessor of the Doom engine.

In fact, more info can be found at Wikipedia:

Technology

The ShadowCaster game engine, a successor of the Wolfenstein 3D and a predecessor of the Doom technology,[1] was written by id Software's John Carmack and licensed to Raven Software.[2] Carmack wrote the ShadowCaster 3D engine during his technology research after id completed Wolfenstein 3D.[2][3] The engine features diminished lighting, texture mapped floors and ceilings, walls with variable heights and sloped floors.[2] The engine was "about half as fast as that of Wolfenstein"[2] but fit the exploration of ShadowCaster rather than the fast paced action of Doom.

Yet still I'm at loss about whether the two versions of the original Wolf 3-D engine are separate branches or are based one upon another. Also, the Blake Stone version of the engine also fits somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by MrFlibble

For example, levels that have both indoor and outdoor areas, although indoor areas can be "simulated" on an outdoor map with either very high walls so that the ceiling (or rather, its absence) is never in the player's view, or with the catwalks, although I think they also have some placement limitations (I don't remember catwalks that would be more than one tile wide, although I'm not 100% sure on this).

I just realized the obvious: you can use GADs to create ceilings and generally ROR environments of any desired size

[Player Lin]

Well, I guess I misunderstand something when posted that, silly me.

I think it still possible to made DooM textures/sprites and others to RoTT engine but the maps? Maybe, but it will very hard...
(I won't say impossible but...I don't know.)

ShadowCaster is more like a DooM-like engine, and Blake Stone is more like a Wolf3D/RoTT-like engine for me...
I don't knows others but, porting the maps from DooM map format to Wolf/RoTT one is just weird for some reasons...

[MrFlibble]

Well, since id Tech 1 is not a true 3D engine, one could more or less straightforwardly recreate the maps in, say, the Wolf 3-D engine if the height differences were neglected. This would, of course, also mean much simplified geometry because of fixed tile size and the 90-degree walls limitation. The ROTT engine allows for height differences thanks to several workarounds, but it has also introduced features that contribute to a rather different set of level design principles.

However, if the goal of recreating original levels was put aside, I think it would be possible to combine ROTT gameplay mechanics with the atmosphere of Doom, perhaps with more open-area levels with lots of monsters (think Serious Sam or Will Rock).