DEATHWALK nonsense!!!

[sgt Boundford]

Why are people under the illusion that the deathwalk makes the game easier?? If you end up having to do the deathwalk then your crap, the game IS too hard for you! WHY? because you just been killed you plebs!!

[George Broussard]

Yeah, it's really a nonsense argument.

You can achieve the same results with lots of quick saves, even during a boss fight. If you quick save every 10 seconds, you will never lose progress in a game.

There is a massive audience of gamers out there that haven't played FPS games for 10 years. It's about time we started thinking about them.

All DeathWalk does is keep you from losing progress. It does make the bosses a little easier, but then again, most people are frustrated by really hard or complex bosses.

[Orochi Avlis]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

You can achieve the same results with lots of quick saves, even during a boss fight. If you quick save every 10 seconds, you will never lose progress in a game.

That's a good point.
I guess people resist change.

[George Broussard]

Well, Prey was designed to be approachable to more than just core FPS players. That's why it has dynamic difficulty and DeathWalk. In hindsight, we should have allowed a slider to core players could make the dynamic difficulty system harder. That was an oversight.

But still, the goal was to have everyone be able to finish the game. The worst thing you can do is make a game and people stop 50% through it. I'd rather more people finish, than not, and error on being too easy, than too hard.

[ishak540m]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

In hindsight, we should have allowed a slider to core players could make the dynamic difficulty system harder. That was an oversight.

Patch, maybe? I have like 3 or four games that I want to play before I get to pick up Prey. They've been sitting on my shelf forever. I just don't have much time anymore. George, you can probably relate. Anyway, by I'll probably get to it by the time a patch comes out.

[0marTheZealot]

If yer quick saving every 10 seconds, you don't deserve to play FPS games. A good autosave system won't let you lose more than 5 minutes of playtime and also makes dying a penalty.

The problem with deathwalking, especially on Cherokee, is that you can die without repurcussions and not only that, but death becomes an advantage. Your enemies don't know your back for 2-3 seconds and you can have more than half health when you return. It removes a lot of the challenge and epicness of the game.

[sgt Boundford]

Its just so ironic and stupid that the only people who say the games too easy because of deathwalk are the only people who have been killed on the game.
surely if the game was that easy then they'd hardly ever die and no one would ever get to use the deathwalk!

[sgt Boundford]

I think actually fighting for your continue is alot more entertaining than just pressing the continue button, and thats all the difference is really, it seems to me that people actually want to stare at loading screens instead of continuosly being involved in the game!

[d3ad connection]

Deathwalk 3 was very challenging for me, because I kept losing my health and spirit energy! I have been playing FPSs for years, and yet I've almost always used god mode with them. With Prey, however, I don't have to worry about busting my keyboard anymore, because I don't get pissed off xD So I am pro-Deathwalk.

[George Broussard]

Originally Posted by 0marTheZealot

The problem with deathwalking, especially on Cherokee, is that you can die without repurcussions and not only that, but death becomes an advantage. Your enemies don't know your back for 2-3 seconds and you can have more than half health when you return. It removes a lot of the challenge and epicness of the game.

Only from the most hardcore of core players. Your average player will enjoy and appreciate the feature.

I do agree with you, but I just think it only affects a small portion of the overall audience. Most people play games to see and do cool things, and not be challenged at a very high level, by combat.

[9Nails]

I think Death Walk is brilliant. When other games start to use it, it will be described as having a feature "like Prey." Which really sets this game a part from the other designs.

Now if they just had this feature for Multiprey, where if you're playing a "CS-like" game based on "timed rounds" you can continue to play in the death walk world. Maybe earn a health bonus for next round, or something.

[d3ad connection]

I would like to see a Deathwalk-themed map

[0marTheZealot]

Originally Posted by sgt Boundford

Its just so ironic and stupid that the only people who say the games too easy because of deathwalk are the only people who have been killed on the game.
surely if the game was that easy then they'd hardly ever die and no one would ever get to use the deathwalk!

FWIW, I only died two times on normal, once to the first boss, and once because I wasn't paying attention to the enemies and got a grenade tossed in my face. The fact that I know deathwalk is there is all I need to know.

[DavoX]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

Only from the most hardcore of core players. Your average player will enjoy and appreciate the feature.

I do agree with you, but I just think it only affects a small portion of the overall audience. Most people play games to see and do cool things, and not be challenged at a very high level, by combat.

George, by all means please try not no include something like spirit walking in DNF...

[Aegeri]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

Well, Prey was designed to be approachable to more than just core FPS players. That's why it has dynamic difficulty and DeathWalk. In hindsight, we should have allowed a slider to core players could make the dynamic difficulty system harder. That was an oversight.

But still, the goal was to have everyone be able to finish the game. The worst thing you can do is make a game and people stop 50% through it. I'd rather more people finish, than not, and error on being too easy, than too hard.

Fair enough. But the difficulty is severely disappointing and I really question if the dynamic difficulty does anything at all. It certainly doesn't seem to do a thing regardless of if it is turned off or turned on or not. The game is just as straightforward.

Other than that it's really my sole complaint about the game. So I would say Prey is doing fairly well as things go.

But please ask about a patch for a difficulty slider, ala Sin: Episodes or something. I would very much like to be able to play the game with aliens that have a bit more bite than they do now.

[elsenator]

I am a great fan of deathwalking. The way other fps games are designed(by having to reload) is like reading a book, and when you get to a certain place on a page, you are forced to go back and read the page all over again. It just doesn't make sense, and it tears the flow of the games apart.

[George Broussard]

Ultimately I think a lot of people will come to appreciate DeathWalk once they play Prey, then play their next FPS without it. I went from Prey to Sin Episodes and I loved Sin, but missed the DeathWalk I kept forgetting to quicksave and lost a fair bit of progress.

[Aegeri]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

Ultimately I think a lot of people will come to appreciate DeathWalk once they play Prey, then play their next FPS without it. I went from Prey to Sin Episodes and I loved Sin, but missed the DeathWalk I kept forgetting to quicksave and lost a fair bit of progress.

I only play that on hardcorps mode now You die once and you die forever.

Takes a real effort to finish that without dying. Especially getting the last secret and not dying [Eh Damien eh? Hehe].

[Draco]

Why are people under the illusion that the deathwalk makes the game easier??

Being in a God mode tends to make the game easier. That's really what Deathwalk is. At first, I tried to play the game properly, but a quarter of the way through, I realized I could act like the AI and just run headlong into any situation. After all, I'll just go to the Deathwalk Land - doesn't matter if you even shoot the demons, since health is irrelevent anyways - and return where you are.

There's an easy fix to this. Areas the player can't Deathwalk in. That, or have the player return a slight distance away from where he died.

I think actually fighting for your continue

You don't have to fight for your continue. You jump in the hole, appear in the exact place you died, and fire repeatedly. If your health goes down to zero, and repeat the process.

[brock2621]

I agree with george. I actually like deathwalk. I don't have to reload all the time. And deathwalk in itself gets more intense and difficult. I am getting sucked back to reality with less health because of all the obstructions. I also like to see how long i can last jumping back and forth over the hole

[George Broussard]

Draco,

DeathWalk is not God mode at all. It's simply a persistant quick save. You don't lose progress. You still have some time penalty for dying (10 seconds or so - more if you try to shoot Wraiths to get full spirit or health).

But it is personal preference and I suspect will be a topic for spirited debate!

[Razzuel]

Yeah I really enjoy Deathwalk, because before I got Prey I was playing Quake 4 (since I had not completed it yet), and Quake 4 is rediculous. Quake 4 isn't that bad of a game but as I was playing I was like WTF when is this game going to end and whenever I died I had to see if I had saved earlier. If I didn't save earlier I'd get pissed off real quick, but if I did save I would think oh great I have to try and get past this crap again. So Deathwalk then became something very useful. It kept the flow of the game and allowed me to really enjoy Prey. I mean now I don't have to hit Esc and quicksave before I go through each door like I did with Quake 4 which was a pain in the ass.

[Denz]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

Ultimately I think a lot of people will come to appreciate DeathWalk once they play Prey, then play their next FPS without it. I went from Prey to Sin Episodes and I loved Sin, but missed the DeathWalk I kept forgetting to quicksave and lost a fair bit of progress.

Why not a quicksave systeme that quick saves every time you go below X amount of health? But not dunring a firefight. After it if the player is still alive. I hardly see deathwalk in a game like DNF.

[George Broussard]

Originally Posted by Denz

Why not a quicksave systeme that quick saves every time you go below X amount of health? But not dunring a firefight. After it if the player is still alive.

Beyond everything else, I like DeathWalk becuase it keeps you in the game and in the game's world and fiction. You aren't jerked out of it by 'dying'. That leads to a consistent experience when you are playing the game.

[Draco]

DeathWalk is not God mode at all

My character can't die. That's God Mode. Or, let's call it 'Nameless One mode'. Although, that game had many sections where he could die...

You still have some time penalty for dying (01 seconds or so, since you only have to jump in the whole and you're at half-health again

Fixed.

I think I should be clear that I don't actively hate Deathwalk. It's an interesting way of preventing frustration. However, in it's current incarnation, it saps any sort of challenge out of the game - you can't die.

[CosmicD]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

Only from the most hardcore of core players. Your average player will enjoy and appreciate the feature.

I do agree with you, but I just think it only affects a small portion of the overall audience. Most people play games to see and do cool things, and not be challenged at a very high level, by combat.

Uhuh, indeed, if mario had real hard bosses it would be boring me very soon. it's the depth of gameplay and interactive encounters that make a game more interesting I think. Ofcourse with a little difficulty, but if joe average has to start a level over 200 times than theres a problem I think.

tough games are like you would build a house where only alpinists could get to the frontdoor , we don't want that...

[Denz]

Yes but in a game like prey where it can make a sense, deathwalk is a nice thing. But i hardly see the death walk on any other game. So for other games it needs a new quick save systeme where the player don't have to think of pressing Fkeys. Simply because they forget to.

[Aegeri]

My character can't die. That's God Mode. Or, let's call it 'Nameless One mode'. Although, that game had many sections where he could die...

And the other fellows you had around you could drop dead as well if you weren't watching.

Incidentally: I don't use quick saves in games myself because I view incessant quick saving as cheating and removing the challenge from the game. Deathwalk is like quick-saving that the developer has basically forced on me with no consequence for abusing it. At least in Sin if you quick save a lot you're going to pay for it towards the end.

[Komb.at]

For the guys who don't like it: what's stopping you from just reloading the last savegame when you die/enter deathwalk? nothing eh? problem solved...

[Draco]

For the guys who don't like it: what's stopping you from just reloading the last savegame when you die/enter deathwalk? nothing eh? problem solved...

What's the point of reloading when you can just jump in the hole and be back where you were? It's a case of "why am I bothering to try and play well when I can play like crap and be assured I'll survive".

[Aegeri]

Originally Posted by Komb.at

For the guys who don't like it: what's stopping you from just reloading the last savegame when you die/enter deathwalk? nothing eh? problem solved...

Well for one thing, I only ever use it like 1-2 during a play through. Believe it or not, it's almost impossible to die anyway unless you fail to pay attention to a crawler on your bottom or you jump down a pit for amusement [I like pits <3]. Secondly, deathwalk itself doesn't require you to actually do anything. You can just stand there and nothing in particular happens until you get sucked back in. There isn't any particular consequence to dying.

I could technically reload if I felt like it, but the fact is that the games challenge never bothers me to begin with and if it was fixed, the deathwalk would still make the game far too easy unless it came with some sort of consequence.

[Komb.at]

If there would be no deathwalk you'd reload as well. Soooo, if you don't like it, but still use it, i suppose you have no will to ignore this feature. If it'd bother you so much you'd just not use it and reload the game. But i suppose you're to lazy to reload and replay the part from the last savegame. In which case i also imply that it doesn't bother you THAT much anyway.

[Nessus]

I didn't mind it at all. there's nothing worse than realizing you forgot to save and have to do a whole section of a game over, sometimes when that happens to me I shut down the game and come back and play it another time.

[Aegeri]

Originally Posted by Komb.at

If there would be no deathwalk you'd reload as well.

Yes, but I'd start back from whatever checkpoints or similar the developers stuck in there. That's quite a difference.

As I said. I don't quicksave at all either. There is a distinct reason for why I do that as I've already outlined.

Soooo, if you don't like it, but still use it, i suppose you have no will to ignore this feature.

You didn't actually read my post did you? The fact that the game is so non-difficult to begin with means deathwalk is almost irrelevant anyway. In the rare case that you die there isn't any particular point in reloading, particularly as the load times are around 40 seconds for some of the complex later levels and it's not as if you're making the game more challenging.

That's the point btw. To make the game more challenging and to encourage the use of more varied tactics to stay alive.

If it'd bother you so much you'd just not use it and reload the game. But i suppose you're to lazy to reload and replay the part from the last savegame. In which case i also imply that it doesn't bother you THAT much anyway.

[SuicideRUN]

If there wasn't deathwalk, then there would be people whining that they have to redo half the level everytime they die.

[Aegeri]

Originally Posted by SuicideRUN

If there wasn't deathwalk, then there would be people whining that they have to redo half the level everytime they die.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

The solution is called quicksave.

[d3ad connection]

Not everyone is an FPS master - I've been kicked into deathwalk tons of times, mostly from grenades or I am stuck with low health. I'm glad it was there, because I don't like having to goto the menu(which on PC takes a looonnng time to show) and waiting for my saved game to load.

[Aegeri]

I think I had deathwalk twice tops in the whole game from actual combat. Nearly every other time was me stuffing around looking for easter eggs or trying to get into ridiculous spots/places. After the first time it was used I never saw it again really. I see the point of it, but the game is too easy as it is to begin with. If someone gives me the option of ultra hard difficulty and beefs up the HP/Accuracy/Grenade and special ability spam of monsters in the game I could see the point of it. Then it becomes an equalising mechanic rather than just something that replaces the function of quicksave.

[Nukkus]

deathwalk really kicks butt. anyone who complains about it needs to stfu imo.

[d3ad connection]

Originally Posted by Aegeri

I think I had deathwalk twice tops in the whole game from actual combat. Nearly every other time was me stuffing around looking for easter eggs or trying to get into ridiculous spots/places. After the first time it was used I never saw it again.

Well, ok. Not everyone is as good as you.