All your history are belong to us, the rise and fall of apogee/3Drealms

[SpinX]

Someone posted this in another thread, but because its an interesting series I would like to put some more light on it...

episode 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R972JSi9tE8

episode 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Cd7-371HU

episode 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq_DgdOeQkM

the rest is coming next week and the week after that...

Its probably nothing and just wild speculation from my part, but I find it quite strange that machinima makes this series about 3drealms and have duke nukem forever on place 1 on their best sequel for 2010 top 10?

this series will probably end next week and then starts gamescon in cologne, Its probably absolutely nothing and just some extreme duketardness from my part, but maybe this docu series ends in a positive note...

[JobivanHiob]

damn I want episode 4 NOW!

A viral campaign is what I expect before the big bang unveil! Could be...

lets hope it is!

[Kristian Joensen]

While this is much more accurate than 90% of the stuff written on 3DR there are a few blunders, such as the claim that 3DR published Max Payne and the IP sale being portrayed as Remedy cutting 3DR off or Shadow Warrior and Balls Of Steel being their last internal titles. First of all Balls Of Steel was not internal, on the other hand both Duke3D XBLA and DNMP XBLA were internally developed titles. As you guys all know 3DR "produced"(Meaning providing funding, as well as significant marketing and design guidance) Max Payne with Rockstar/Take Two publishing it. Everything earned on Max Payne was shared 50/50 between Remedy and 3DR, including the proceeds of the IP sale.

Edit:

I highly doubt that these guys have any inside knowledge or that the game will be unveiled via this series.

[Rapture_Rising]

Originally Posted by SpinX

Its probably nothing and just wild speculation from my part, but I find it quite strange that machinima makes this series about 3drealms and have duke nukem forever on place 1 on their best sequel for 2010 top 10?

They probably said this just to piss off Halo fanboys or they just dont like Halo anymore.

[JobivanHiob]

yeah i guess we will never see a 100% accurate doc about Apogee/3DR.

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Rapture_Rising

They probably said this just to piss off Halo fanboys or they just dont like Halo anymore.

Duke will have a go at masterchief this year. And they know it!

[Kristian Joensen]

But this one is much much much more accurate than anything else out there. They have obviously done there research, mostly by reading SM interviews it seems.

Edit:

The stuff about Duke3D selling 3.5M copies and Wolf3D selling 200,000 copies, etc all is from recent SM interviews.

[KareBear]

They also forgot to mention the Bombshell game 3drealms had in development around the time of Duke Nukem 3d and Prey.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

on the other hand both Duke3D XBLA and DNMP XBLA were internally developed titles.

While technically true, that's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

[Kristian Joensen]

No I don't see how that is a stretch. Why would you say that is a stretch?

Edit:

Originally Posted by KareBear

They also forgot to mention the Bombshell game 3drealms had in development around the time of Duke Nukem 3d and Prey.

I wouldn't consider that a mistake at all really. It is just a matter of emphasis/focus, you can only mention so many things is such short episodes. There are lots of projects they didn't mention DNMP, Blood and all the other Build games they had going around the time of Duke3D which they ended up either canceling or selling of or DNF the side scroller for example. These are deliberate omissions due to time, importance, etc. There is little doubt that the 6 most significant releases in 3DR/Apogee history as far as things like commercial and critical success as well impact on the history of the company were Wolf3D, ROTT, Terminal Velocity, Duke3D, Max Payne and Prey.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

No I don't see how that is a stretch. Why would you say that is a stretch?

Well it's not like they created new content for them, for the most part. Not saying it was a breeze completed in a single afternoon or anything, but to count them as separately developed titles is a bit embellished, IMO.

[Kristian Joensen]

Well they were projects and they were internal and it involved development. Just because of the scale or type of a project is different than other projects doesn't make them non-projects, non-games or non-development. Shadow Warrior was the last game developed internally that was developed from scratch but people usually don't specify "from scratch" when they say it was last game developed internally. Heck to be really precise Shadow Warrior was even started as an external project.

[crunchy superman]

We can agree to disagree. I think that definition is a bit reaching, but hey - at least they got released.

Point is, I can totally understand that they were not mentioned in the context of that video. These are very interesting and, like others, I am eager for episode 4.

[marioman360]

Bahahaha
"what could possibly go wrong?
...
Tune in next time to see everything go wrong!"

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Shadow Warrior was the last game developed internally that was developed from scratch but people usually don't specify "from scratch" when they say it was last game developed internally.

No they don't, because it is implied and understood as such.
Internally ported would be a better term in this case.

[PredatorFL]

Its painful to watch these... so much potential just wasted.

[Kristian Joensen]

No that is certainly not understood. Usually Shadow Warrior being the last internally developed title is the response you get when you correct someone claiming that they haven't released anything in the past 10 years by pointing out all the multitude of 3rd party games they have released in that time period. So in other words people are trying to paint an extremely misleading picture of 3DR.

Edit:

"These are very interesting and, like others, I am eager for episode 4. "

Crunchy, this is something we definitely agree about.

[Willem-Jan]

really nice, thanks for the post!!

[Xgthug]

Am I the only one with any complaints about these videos?

The early history of Apogee was fun to watch, but about the time it hit Duke 3D, the narrator really started pissing me off. Using the hi-res pack was a really terrible decision, and really made this video lose all credibility and historical accuracy.

The line "(Duke)... loved his women almost as much as he loved his bullets" seemed really stupid to me.

[Angelo86]

Originally Posted by SpinX

Someone posted this in another thread

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=575

Originally Posted by SpinX

but I find it quite strange that machinima makes this series about 3drealms and have duke nukem forever on place 1 on their best sequel for 2010 top 10?

[Willem-Jan]

Originally Posted by Xgthug

Am I the only one with any complaints about these videos?

The early history of Apogee was fun to watch, but about the time it hit Duke 3D, the narrator really started pissing me off. Using the hi-res pack was a really terrible decision, and really made this video lose all credibility and historical accuracy.

The line "(Duke)... loved his women almost as much as he loved his bullets" seemed really stupid to me.

Well actually I was also thinking that about the hi res pack, but I still enjoyed it.

[terrannova]

Excellent videos thanks, keep 'em comin'

[Gideon]

I dig it!

[ferran275]

the hi res usage was a little lame, but that was a great series to watch. Perhaps they're holding episode 4 back because of the recent Kotaku spread rumor?

[PukeBurger]

Episode 4 is out

[Angelo86]

Originally Posted by PukeBurger

Episode 4 is out

Thanks!

Apogee and 3D Realms- All Your History: Pt. 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQjm0Z7UNgg

[JobivanHiob]

here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQjm0Z7UNgg

u beat me to it

[the_gruesome]

I feel sad now.

[Willem-Jan]

Watching right now!

[JobivanHiob]

what a downfall...EPIC

But they are about to rise from the ashes as we speak! DUKE is FOREVER, he will save 3D Realms!

[Kristian Joensen]

There is one HUUUUGE historical error in this video, the 12 Million USD that Take Two paid for the DNF publishing rights went to Infogrames/Atari the former publisher NOT 3D Realms. They didn't see a dime of that.

Edit:

This is by far the worst episode, they continue on with some of the otherwise minor errors from the others such as the idea of a bad relationship between id and Apogee caused by id choosing to go their own way on Doom. The insinuation that Duke3D alone was the funding source for DNF thereby leaving out some of the key events(I know that you cannot cover everything in a short video like this, but we are talking about key events here), the claim that they spent ALL their money on DNF etc

[JobivanHiob]

yes..i guess i'm used to hearing wrong things about 3DR/Apogee.

[cof_3pc]

The narrator of this video just sounds like a whiny bitter Duke Nukem fan, that decided to spite 3DR with an online video that doesn't even have all of it's facts straight.

[Damien_Azreal]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

There is one HUUUUGE historical error in this video, the 12 Million USD that Take Two paid for the DNF publishing rights went to Infogrames/Atari the former publisher NOT 3D Realms. They didn't see a dime of that.

Edit:

This is by far the worst episode, they continue on with some of the otherwise minor errors from the others such as the idea of a bad relationship between id and Apogee caused by id choosing to go their own way on Doom. The insinuation that Duke3D alone was the funding source for DNF thereby leaving out some of the key events(I know that you cannot cover everything in a short video like this, but we are talking about key events here), the claim that they spent ALL their money on DNF etc

Yeah, the first three episodes were pretty solid (minus some really tiny mistakes relating to Max Payne and such). But this episode contains a LOT of assumption and rumors and presents it as fact.

Once more they never once touched on Blood... I know, really minor and not that important. But really, to me... Blood started life as a 3DRealms product and in a way, 3DR did help start up another studio (Monolith) with a cult classic first ever title (Blood).

Plus, they completely ignored the fact that Radar sold PREY's IP to ZeniMax.

[KareBear]

They also made a mistake in saying Tom Halls version of Prey had Portals.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Gideon

I dig it!

Hello, hiremegeorge

[TJR]

Originally Posted by cof_3pc

The narrator of this video just sounds like a whiny bitter Duke Nukem fan, that decided to spite 3DR with an online video that doesn't even have all of it's facts straight.

Perhaps, although I doubt spite or accuracy were primary goals here. People love punching bags and rise/fall stories, so Apogee is just a convenient, current day target (generates views). In terms of solid facts, they just needed the bare minimum to get the job done.

Yeah, the first three episodes were pretty solid (minus some really tiny mistakes relating to Max Payne and such).

I think that's a bit generous. Other points they missed or got wrong were:

- Todd Replogle created the 2D Duke games (and the initial Duke 3D plan), not George Broussard
- Apogee followed up on Wolf3D with Blake Stone
- the Duke3D project limped along before Broussard took over and turned it into something great
- the lukewarm reception of Shadow Warrior (they solely attribute Apogee's perfectionism to hubris following Duke3D, but the fact is that they were also disappointed with how SW panned out, both critically and commercially. I'd wager that this had some effect on how they approached future games).

Personally, I wish someone would do an investigative piece on the really ugly stuff, such as the staff rebellions after Duke/SW (the roots of Ritual, Rebel Boat Rocker -> Gearbox, ION Storm.....the original Shadow Warrior creators also split off at this time, with one of them soon attempting to redo SW according to the pre-Broussard vision). The early years of internal development were tumultuous, although I doubt anyone would care to revisit this.

[ferran275]

Originally Posted by TJR

Personally, I wish someone would do an investigative piece on the really ugly stuff, such as the staff rebellions after Duke/SW (the roots of Ritual, Rebel Boat Rocker -> Gearbox, ION Storm.....the original Shadow Warrior creators also split off at this time, with one of them soon attempting to redo SW according to the pre-Broussard vision). The early years of internal development were tumultuous, although I doubt anyone would care to revisit this.

I call myself a 'film maker' from time to time I think it would be so awesome to go out to Texas and do a full feature documentary piece on 3DRealms/Apogee, it would be insanely fun.

[Youngerthanold]

Originally Posted by ferran275

I call myself a 'film maker' from time to time I think it would be so awesome to go out to Texas and do a full feature documentary piece on 3DRealms/Apogee, it would be insanely fun.

I would be ALL in. I LOVE doing films and such! Esp on something I love!

[ferran275]

Originally Posted by Youngerthanold

I would be ALL in. I LOVE doing films and such! Esp on something I love!

Lets do it! We just have to get in touch with Scott and George and get them to agree to it, that could take awhile

[Youngerthanold]

[QUOTE=ferran275;941880]Lets do it! We just have to get in touch with Scott and George and get them to agree to it, that could take awhile [/QUOTE

Really? :P

I always thought it would be so easy! I can't even get George to respond to my emails. :P