Quest for Perfectionism

[jagzzz]

I'm sure George has realized by now that his quest for perfectionism has taken its toll. I was wondering whether it has caused any break downs in terms of employee productivity. Has it affected any of you guys mentally, or perhaps physically? If so, how do you cope? Just curious.

[Evil Angel]

Whenever the idea of chasing perfection has been brought up George has always said it has never been a case of trying to be perfect. It's more like they just made some mistakes and have been trying to finish what they started while also making a game that's as good as can be.

I don't wanna put words in his mouth but he's said similar things in the past.

[Kristian Joensen]

Yes you are absolutely correct, that and a case of WAY to few employees from early on.

All of that was fixed in 2002, they hired alot of people and moved into new and bigger offices. That is when they restarted, to more exact they restarted in early 2002.

By November 2002 their new renderer was finished so the could begin work on content by January 2003.

[Kalki]

Here are some quotes from George:

>>> GetSome said:The only thing I can figure is that this is a case of a desire for too much perfection.


That's not it at all. We certainly have very high standards, but the bottom line is that we had some issues and made some big mistakes and that cost us a few years of wasted development. We started fresh in very late 02 (really early 03) and have been on a pretty good pace since then. We are making progress and driving towards something.

This reallly is a case of just screwing up in a cosmic way early on, then just deciding to try to do it right. 08/09/05 08:13 AM

14/04/05 12:45 PM

>>> jagzzz said: No, doesn't matter who/what they dump the "extra" work on. The point is hiring someone new is going to add to development time. Training the person and getting him/her to work on something that is going to definitely take a lot of time.. i find it funny.


Well for any downtime there is bringing people up to speed, the overall project should go faster with more people working on it. So it's a "one step back, 3 steps forward" kind of thing.

>>> Perfectionism is nice, but there's a fine line between perfectionism, and insanity.


We're not being perfectionits. We're just trying to get done. We will polish until it's right, though.

[Cerberus_e]

I think DNF should try to get a 10 on gamespot
gamespot says they give such scores, but never saw such a game (there are, though, according to them)

[SyntaxN]

Cerberus_e said:
I think DNF should try to get a 10 on gamespot
gamespot says they give such scores, but never saw such a game (there are, though, according to them)

10 at gamespot? That is possible?
They should aim for perfection imo, DNF is 3dr´s "return" after so many years, DNF should pwn them all and show who´s the king (I never expected something less, possibly a way to much! I can´t imagine what would happen when DNF is going to be on of those games which "just" get 91% or so )

[g-dog]

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade...but I have such a perfect mental image of the game already (in my mind of course) that it will take a miracle to meet/exceed my expectations. I really, really hope this is that one special release that is both equally visually impressive and fun/exciting to take part of. Just seeing/knowing 3dr has had a part in Prey developement/etc....makes me giddy/excited about how DNF will look and play.

[X-Vector]

SyntaxN said:
I can´t imagine what would happen when DNF is going to be on of those games which "just" get 91% or so )

The universe will collapse.

This is the burden that the brave people at 3DR have taken upon themselves (to create a game that gets higher than 91% at Gamespot) and this is in fact the real reason why development of the game has taken so long - they can't afford to get it wrong.

So for all the naysayers out there I say stop your potentially catastrophical lambasting, 3DR are only trying to save the world here!

[SyntaxN]

X-Vector said:

The universe will collapse.

This is the burden that the brave people at 3DR have taken upon themselves (to create a game that gets higher than 91% at Gamespot) and this is in fact the real reason why development of the game has taken so long - they can't afford to get it wrong.

So for all the naysayers out there I say stop your potentially catastrophical lambasting, 3DR are only trying to save the world here!

Well, unfortunately I´m not the whole universe, I spoke only for myself

[X-Vector]

OK, then replace "the universe" and "the world" with "SyntaxN".

[SyntaxN]

X-Vector said:
OK, then replace "the universe" and "the world" with "SyntaxN".

Unfortunately 3dr can´t save me only with DNF, there is more than gaming

[X-Vector]

And you're supposed to be a DNF cult member?
Methinks you should repent your ways before an excommunication is in order.

[SyntaxN]

X-Vector said:
And you're supposed to be a DNF cult member?
Methinks you should repent your ways before an excommunication is in order.

lol...as you know, DNF is supposed to be a game, and for games DNF is my number 1 atm, that should be enough

[Halford]

There are 4 games that got 10 at gamespot.

http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?type=...date_filter=all

[Shaam]

Halford said:
There are 4 games that got 10 at gamespot.

http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?type=...date_filter=all

No PC game has got 10/10. The highest is 9.6.

[Halford]

Yes, currently there is no PC game which got 9.7 or higher. But next year, DNF will got 10.

[Odin]

The fact that DNF has been missing for 8 years or so alone may tack on an extra one-and-a-half point onto the average.

[avatar_58]

Halford said:
Yes, currently there is no PC game which got 9.7 or higher. But next year, DNF will got 10.

Does anyone actually give a rats ass about what ratings these games get? Duke could get a 2.5 for all I care, it won't change my mind about buying it. I'll form my own opinion about my games thanks.

[FireFly]

If Gamespot gives thegame 2.5, it's very unlikely that I'll enjoy it.

[Kristian Joensen]

I will buy this game even if every reviewer in the world gave it 0 AND EVERYONE on this forums aboslutely HATED it.

[SyntaxN]

Kristian Joensen said:
I will buy this game even if every reviewer in the world gave it 0 AND EVERYONE on this forums aboslutely HATED it.

Same here...

[Kalki]

Kristian Joensen said:
I will buy this game even if every reviewer in the world gave it 0 AND EVERYONE on this forums aboslutely HATED it.

Well if I can't do anything else with their gift coupons...

[dark_angel]

I once asked Scott a question at Game Matters about the criteria they are using to create DNF as near perfect as possible but I forgot his exact reply. he mentioned that they are going to innovate in the area they feel important for the FPS genre. Unfortunately, Game Matters doesn't feature a search engine to get his exact response.

[FireFly]

dark_angel said:
he mentioned that they are going to innovate in the area they feel important for the FPS genre.

Wasn't it Charlie who said that, in response to your PM?

[dark_angel]

If I remember well, Scott talked about " appropriate innovations" wich lead to Charlie's statement.

Here is Charlie's Statement:

We are trying to innovate in the areas that we feel are important. We just hope that the players agree. Judging from the reactions to Duke 3D at the time and the few people who have been able to see the game, we're pretty sure we're on the right track.

[Kristian Joensen]

dark_angel said:
I once asked Scott a question at Game Matters about the criteria they are using to create DNF as near perfect as possible but I forgot his exact reply. he mentioned that they are going to innovate in the area they feel important for the FPS genre. Unfortunately, Game Matters doesn't feature a search engine to get his exact response.

Yes I rember seeing you post over at Game Matters and I also distinctly remember you asking that question, but I have been seraching up and down over at Game Matters and I can't seem to find you post.

[FireFly]

Found it.

Scott, what criteria you guys at 3drealms are using to make DNF as near perfect as possible?

Posted by: joseph ghassan | November 3, 2004 01:26 PM

Joseph, our overriding goal is to add a significant building block to the "franchise." This requires making a game that is innovative, fun, and executed to near perfection. We apply this same battle plan to all of the games we're involved with, including Max Payne. Basically, we refuse to release crap.

http://dukenukem.typepad.com/game_ma..._game_par.html

[dark_angel]

^^^
Excellent!

[Kristian Joensen]

Great I was looking for a comment by dark_angel and also decided that it was unlikely to by a comment to that blog entry.

[dark_angel]

I also once stated to Charlie the following:

I really know how hard and time consuming is to make a game that meets our expectations and be innovative in a way or another.

his response:

Our own expectations are bad enough. It's kinda funny but someone will post an idea in the interactivity thread and everyone will make fun of them because it sounds so unreasonable, and we'll look at each other and go "Actually, we could do that if we wanted to".

Our difficulty is saying enough is enough and stomaching saying no to something and saving it for another game.

[Kristian Joensen]

I REALLY like this comment:

"Actually, we could do that if we wanted to", this also means that some of the peole who are able to mod will have quite an amount if ideas to implement. I hope the changes theyhave done to Unrealscript have only made it easier and not harder.

[Sayantan]

Scott said:

Joseph, our overriding goal is to add a significant building block to the "franchise." This requires making a game that is innovative, fun, and executed to near perfection. We apply this same battle plan to all of the games we're involved with, including Max Payne. Basically, we refuse to release crap.[/i]

^^

A cup of coffee please.

[dark_angel]

Kristian Joensen said:
I REALLY like this comment:

"Actually, we could do that if we wanted to", this also means that some of the peole who are able to mod will have quite an amount if ideas to implement. I hope the changes theyhave done to Unrealscript have only made it easier and not harder.

If 3drealms aim for perfection, wich is true, they are capable of doing anything in the game.

This really show how enormous the engine is, giving them the capability to implement their innovative gameplay elements.

[Kristian Joensen]

They already achieved perfection with Duke Nukem 3D in 1996, so long as DNF is as good and as interactive then I am happy and will consider it the best game ever made, simply because Duke Nukem 3D already holds that spot for me.

Anything above and beyond Duke Nukem 3D is for me just an added bonus.

[SyntaxN]

Our own expectations are bad enough. It's kinda funny but someone will post an idea in the interactivity thread and everyone will make fun of them because it sounds so unreasonable, and we'll look at each other and go "Actually, we could do that if we wanted to".

Our difficulty is saying enough is enough and stomaching saying no to something and saving it for another game.

Wow, they must have some very powerfull stuff...we all know that there are pretty mad ideas in the interactivity threads
I hope they´re still extremely ambitious

[dark_angel]

Yeah, back in 1996 Duke Nukem 3D was a unique FPS pc title.

Now if we can replace the 199 by 200 and see what title would acheive that again

[FireFly]

Well in a recent post on the Shack he said:

"You left out the part about picking up a rat and putting it in a microwave, turning it on, watching it spin then explode, or picking up a piece of paper, pressing use and making a paper airplane and throwing it across the room with physics."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10981435

[Ivan]

3D Realms can't be aiming for perfection. Getting a game to be perfect is impossible.

[Kristian Joensen]

Last I knew Duke Nukem 3D actually exists. That falsifies your claim.

[SyntaxN]

FireFly said:
Well in a recent post on the Shack he said:

"You left out the part about picking up a rat and putting it in a microwave, turning it on, watching it spin then explode, or picking up a piece of paper, pressing use and making a paper airplane and throwing it across the room with physics."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10981435

That would be...uhm insane interactivity

Someone's getting fired, btw.