a question

[bondmaster]

i wonder if some early levels/maps of dnf been created in the build editor?

[Foxy]

1) Fat chance
2) Why do you ask this? Why does it make even the remotest bit of sense?

[Kristian Joensen]

I think he is talking about back in 1997 when they where doing some of the earliest design/research on the game.

[crunchy superman]

I'd say not, but it would be interesting if there were.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by bondmaster

i wonder if some early levels/maps of dnf been created in the build editor?

To my knowledge, Build code hasn't been used in any incarnation of the game. Even in the earliest genesis days. The earliest days were Quake 1 code, so I doubt it severely.

[Kristian Joensen]

Nothing prior to the Quake 1 day ? No causual and informal experimenting with Build by Alen Blum after finishing Atomic Edition ? Perhaps unrelated to any formal DN4 or DNF project was started ?

I think bondmaster might be getting at such stuff aswell. But even if not, it is still a interesting question.

[Kalki]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Nothing prior to the Quake 1 day ? No causual and informal experimenting with Build by Alen Blum after finishing Atomic Edition ? Perhaps unrelated to any formal DN4 or DNF project was started ?

I think bondmaster might be getting at such stuff aswell. But even if not, it is still a interesting question.

No, the point of getting familiar with the Quake engine(which they experimented with) was to get a head start on the Quake 2 code(which they received by the end of 1997), the true-3D stuff. I'm highly doubtful about build, unless Keith Schuler(?) messed it with for the DNF sidescroller game that was never developed.

[Nacho]

Sidescrolling DNF was never begun if I recall unless you count concepts of it with no actual physically playable game.

Also, I doubt they would use build for a sidescroller at the time.

[Kristian Joensen]

Yes but that was all part of the "DNF" project, I am talking about prior to "DNF" but after "DN3D". I agree with regard to the "DNF" project.

I also think it is unlikely there ever was ANY such work.

Edit:

I was replying to Kalki.

[Nacho]

Oh well to answer your question then: No. As I said the Build engine wouldn't be used for THAT incarnation as it would be more effort then it's worth to make the Build engine something for a sidescroller since Build is designed for 3D games.

[Kristian Joensen]

I think I confused you, I wasn't talking about the sidescroller.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Kalki

No, the point of getting familiar with the Quake engine(which they experimented with) was to get a head start on the Quake 2 code(which they received by the end of 1997), the true-3D stuff.

Actually:

"We originally didn't even intend on switching from Q1 to Q2. That's what the PC Gamer article was based on and that's what we gave the estimates on. Had we not switched we would have saved several months. But Q2 had enough new stuff in it that we were forced to switch (or re-engineer Quake 1 - and we hadn't been working with it that long to make that an option as Valve had with Half-Life)." (June 13th, 1999)

[TerminX]

I was once told by Ken Silverman that a Duke Nukem 3D 1.7 (with voxels, et cetera) was in development for a short time after the release of Atomic Edition. I suppose it's safe to assume that no early DNF existed on Build as they were supposed to be working on Duke3D for a while more instead. I think there's even a voxel of the medkit from Duke3D in the Duke3D palette somewhere in the Shadow Warrior GRP file.

[Kalki]

Funny, I've never seen that quote before. I based my assumption of them using only 3 guys on messing with Quake 1. Doesn't sound like going full steam on it to me.

Later.

[Kristian Joensen]

Actually what you descripe TerminX isn't that far from what I was trying to get across.

[bondmaster]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

To my knowledge, Build code hasn't been used in any incarnation of the game. Even in the earliest genesis days. The earliest days were Quake 1 code, so I doubt it severely.

thanks for the information

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by Nacho

Sidescrolling DNF was never begun if I recall unless you count concepts of it with no actual physically playable game.

Also, I doubt they would use build for a sidescroller at the time.

Wrong. Duke Nukem Forever the 3D game has NO RELATION to the old dead scroller DNF game except in title. Engines, whatnot has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Put that out of your head.

There was a couple of early betas for the DNF scroller, it most certainly was "begun".

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Kalki

Funny, I've never seen that quote before.

Right, it's a little known quote that I found by accident.

However Scott also indicates that they wanted to make the game with the Quake engine:

"For DNF we might not have started with the Quake engine, which simply wasn't able to handle what we were trying to do. One of the biggest problems with a super high content game like DNF is that it takes so long to develop that you need to really pay attention to advancing tech which can often make the content worthless." (August 25th, 1999)

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?show=20

I based my assumption of them using only 3 guys on messing with Quake 1. Doesn't sound like going full steam on it to me.

It's not really an assumption because George says:

"We didn't get Quake 2 code till Dec 97/Jan 98. We made the mistake of mocking some stuff up in Quake 1 (like a user mod) for PC Gamer. In hindsight that was unfair to PC Gamer, and to the fans, and lesson learned. Most of that was stuff we did in spare time, jacking around, as we were finishing Shadow Warrior, and waiting on Quake 2 code." (May, 2003)

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=52193

And remember that they licensed the Quake 2 engine in April 1997:

http://www.planetduke.com/features/i...80616pr1.shtml

So it seems they only spent a few months experimenting with the Quake tech before deciding to switch.

[dssherm]

This is more than slightly off topic, but I would love to see DNF include the first 3 or 4 levels from Duke 3D. Maybe as secret levels / easter egg kind of thing.

[mr. pinky demon]

That is a good idea, my favorite levels are the first two.

[George Broussard]

Originally Posted by bondmaster

i wonder if some early levels/maps of dnf been created in the build editor?

No. That never really happened, even on the old stuff. Perhaps we would have made more progress if we'd blocked things in with Build and converted it to something else

[oak man]

I like this thread I am "blessed" with more DNF knowledge

[neuromancer]

Originally Posted by FireFly

However Scott also indicates that they wanted to make the game with the Quake engine:

"One of the biggest problems with a super high content game like DNF is that it takes so long to develop that you need to really pay attention to advancing tech which can often make the content worthless." (August 25th, 1999)

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?show=20

4 VGA card generations have come and go since 1999. They hardly learnt their lesson. You can't teach the old dog new tricks. You just have to set the level and work for this as fast as you can. Proggressing like the turtle while nVidia and ATI paly the rabit is not wise. Besides, the turtle won only in the tale.

I am tired of these guys..... will disapear a couple of months more.