DNF Demo $5

[Private420]

Originally Posted by Saul

I wonder if 3DR ever considered releasing a level or two of DNF... for like $5 as a "demo"

They used to release demos in the past, why not now?

That would give fans something to play, and 3DR some cash flow...

lol its like shareware all over again hehe, accept I would buy it for 10 bucks and so would everyone else if not 30 maybe the only time we get are hands on it.

[SplatterHappy]

Originally Posted by Private420

lol its like shareware all over again hehe, accept I would buy it for 10 bucks and so would everyone else if not 30 maybe the only time we get are hands on it.

The question would be are there half a million fans out there willing to pay $10 for it. I know I would, but people are notoriously tight when it comes to paying money for a demo.

[8IronBob]

I dunno, I remember back in the day where you'd get retail-packed shareware versions of games for $5 or so, that used to sit in cardboard sleeves on a rack. Of course, that was 10-15 years ago when we were all on dial-up and couldn't afford to download games off the web due to phone bill costs, as well as the tremendous amount of time it took to d/l a demo or shareware version of a game.

[rev6605]

World of Warcraft demo costs 5$ at walmart... for the disc.. even though it costs less than 50 cents for cd, case, and codes, and like 1$ to ship them all... and yet, millions of the demo discs are sold every year. Y? because you dont have to wait HOURS for the download AND, having the demo means you have a lot of the game... once you activate a real, full account, you only have to install remaining bits and pieces of the game.... it may not work as well for an FPS game, im just saying, theirs crap like that out there.

[8IronBob]

True...but I was really talking about the real reason why it was more worth buying a $5 floppy disk or CD-ROM from a demo kiosk at a computer store back in the old DOS days when internet was more limited and slower. May not be as necessary to buy a demo disc this day in age, since things are far better for internet downloading of demos now vs. back during the days when Doom II and Duke 3D ruled the PCs.

[R22B]

Lol shareware... I barely remember it.

[QuiGonJ]

Just looking at this thread.. yeah, I know you have to pay for DLC, and no, since I bought cars in Burnout Paradise: The Ultimate Box, it isn't just for consoles any more. (Last console I owned was the SNES, fwiw.) I meant, charge $29.00 for the game, assuring lotsa original sales then $20 or so for the second half. Meaning you pay a regular retail first run price, just in two parts.

It has worked well for the RPG market, like Fallout 3.

[lordlonelobo]

But you kinda have to go into a project intending to do that, as things are often not done sequentially in the "old-style" of doing things.

[Private420]

I want the 1997 version of DNF in shareware form =), that would kick ass

[QuiGonJ]

If the game is designed in the Duke 3D version of episodes, it would be easy enough to do.

[Ioncannon]

Originally Posted by Audiothor

I hate to say this but I really don't think that a demo is likely - It would mean that the graphics engine was completely finished and that all the AI and weapons, well... just about everything was done and ready.

If they were that close to releasing the game then do you think we would be having this conversation ???

No one ever saw or remeber this vid? DNF had a playable build! Unless this was a fake... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp827KokQn0

[lordlonelobo]

Originally Posted by Ioncannon

No one ever saw or remeber this vid? DNF had a playable build! Unless this was a fake... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp827KokQn0

It was real, but who is to say all the levels and assets are complete?

[trucedAnimal]

Why would anyone pay money for a demo? I wouldn't.
I don't even want a stupid demo. I want the game.

[8IronBob]

Bah, much rather have UT2004 DukeMatch rehashes of sorts over a demo, if those exist.

[Tedades]

Originally Posted by trucedAnimal

Why would anyone pay money for a demo? I wouldn't.
I don't even want a stupid demo. I want the game.

The idea was that DNF would get released with the money they would generate by selling a DNF demo.

But who would pay for a demo, hardly anyone.

They could create a multiplayer package, sell it for $15.
Just like Battlefield 1943, game has like 2 levels?

[wh4tever]

No demo please, i couldn't stand the wait! What do you think,another 5 years?. They said "when it's done", well it is-well and trully done, let's just move on.

[DarkJedi2]

I would definitely pay for a demo and don't really see why a demo MUST be free... I mean, come on, you're still getting something out of it.

They do this kind of thing in Japan all the time, they usually have special "Prologue" DVD's of anime that have not been released yet, those cost about $20-$50 and usually contains a 5 minute preview of the anime and a booklet... I once bought a preview disc of Ikkitousen Great Guardians and I think that set me back about $30 NZ and that disc only had a 90 second preview on it.

A slightly more complete package would be awesome though, imagine a limited edition package costing around $50 containing:
DNF 2009 build beta demo (say 3 levels of it)
DNF 2001 beta - in whatever state it was
DNF t-shirt
DNF mug

I'd buy it. Hell, just the t-shirt and mug would already be worth it. This kind of package would put the Japanese Prologue packages to shame!

[lordlonelobo]

Originally Posted by DarkJedi2

I would definitely pay for a demo and don't really see why a demo MUST be free... I mean, come on, you're still getting something out of it.

They do this kind of thing in Japan all the time, they usually have special "Prologue" DVD's of anime that have not been released yet, those cost about $20-$50 and usually contains a 5 minute preview of the anime and a booklet... I once bought a preview disc of Ikkitousen Great Guardians and I think that set me back about $30 NZ and that disc only had a 90 second preview on it.

A slightly more complete package would be awesome though, imagine a limited edition package costing around $50 containing:
DNF 2009 build beta demo (say 3 levels of it)
DNF 2001 beta - in whatever state it was
DNF t-shirt
DNF mug

I'd buy it. Hell, just the t-shirt and mug would already be worth it. This kind of package would put the Japanese Prologue packages to shame!

Is that why there was Grand Turismo 5 Prologue?

[R22B]

I don’t understand anyone here.

DNF is dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. Unless George wins the lottery or rubs a lamp the right way and a genie comes out and grants him his wishes (we all know wish one would be for epic hot wings), move on.

All of you people can’t grasp the concept. It’s sad to see years of development and redevelopment and hope to be smashed. However, there is no way around it. DNF is indefinitely delayed. There is no hope of coming back from that unless something crazy happens.

If 3DR were (big were) to do anything with DNF, no one would know about it so stop speculating. No one will pay $5 for a demo. The only way DNF could ever bring in revenue is if a multiplayer package were released or it was released in episodes. However, with no development team, don’t count on it and don’t count on Duke.

Move on. Duke is gone.

[DarkJedi2]

Originally Posted by R22B

No one will pay $5 for a demo.

I would along with many other people. Not everyone will be interested in paying for a demo and that is fair enough, but there will be plenty of other people that would be interested in it.

And if the game's first section is in a playable state, I don't see why this couldn't be turned into a nice prologue package to get enough funding to complete the game. Well, assuming Take-Two doesn't succeed in preventing development until the court case is over.

[MadMac]

Originally Posted by DarkJedi2

I would definitely pay for a demo and don't really see why a demo MUST be free... I mean, come on, you're still getting something out of it.

The general idea of a demo is to decide if you'd actually like the finished product.
If you don't like it, you don't "get something out of it", so the money's wasted.

[Saul]

You're losing out on $5 if it's crap. If you bought the game, it'd be $60.

If it's not crap, word will spread, it will sell and help fund the full game.

[AdrianGuenter]

Originally Posted by R22B

I don’t understand anyone here.

DNF is dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. Unless George wins the lottery or rubs a lamp the right way and a genie comes out and grants him his wishes (we all know wish one would be for epic hot wings), move on.

All of you people can’t grasp the concept. It’s sad to see years of development and redevelopment and hope to be smashed. However, there is no way around it. DNF is indefinitely delayed. There is no hope of coming back from that unless something crazy happens.

If 3DR were (big were) to do anything with DNF, no one would know about it so stop speculating. No one will pay $5 for a demo. The only way DNF could ever bring in revenue is if a multiplayer package were released or it was released in episodes. However, with no development team, don’t count on it and don’t count on Duke.

Move on. Duke is gone.

So I've been lurking around here as a guest for the last 10 years, but it is posts like these in the last month that have finally driven me to create an account.

I don't understand this apparent need some people on this board have to be so negative to those of us who aren't ready to give up on this project yet. We haven't had closure, and until George or Scott says that DNF will be completely abandoned and that every build file, doc, spec, and art file is being deleted and zero-filled (as well as paper files/physical artwork destroyed, of course ), I for one am not going to bury my hope that I may one day play some version of this game, hopefully completed by 3DR.

You've given up, you're ready to move on and forget about it...and that's fine. But, you have no moral right (and by "you" I mean everyone on this forum and pretty much everywhere else on the web right now that is discussing this topic and feels the way you do), to try and cram your point of view down the throats of those of us who want to forge on a bit longer.

We have that right, just as you have the right to walk away. Which brings me to the point of...why, if you're done here, do you stick around just to twist the knife deeper for the rest of us? Go do whatever it is you want to do now that this project is no longer of concern to you. All this extra time you've gained by not obsessing about the latest DNF news anymore could really be spent more constructively than continuing to troll the forum, don't you think?

I mean, just for some perspective...I'm not Christian (nor am I religious, for that matter), but I don't feel the need to walk into a local parish on Sunday morning and shout at the top of my lungs about how ridiculous I find their religious beliefs to be, and how I'm positive that their god doesn't exist (and how they should be too). That's completely rude and disrespectful. It isn't needed there, nor here...so let those of us who wish to speculate about what is happening behind the scenes and to dream of the day that we install DNF to do so.

If 3DR is handed a miracle in dev funding (as well as management) which leads to the completion of DNF someday I'll be ecstatic. If not I can live with that too, though I hope lives are not ruined by the unfortunate circumstances and mistakes leading to the fatal failure of a video game project. I'm not saying that I expect to play this game in the next 5 years, but I still hope that I do, and don't find it completely unfathomable.

The coffin may be constructed and Duke may be in it, but it isn't nailed shut quite yet...so I guess those of us that are "fools" will just have hang around and find out what happens.

[jaimie10]

Originally Posted by AdrianGuenter

So I've been lurking around here as a guest for the last 10 years, but it is posts like these in the last month that have finally driven me to create an account.

I don't understand this apparent need some people on this board have to be so negative to those of us who aren't ready to give up on this project yet. We haven't had closure, and until George or Scott says that DNF will be completely abandoned and that every build file, doc, spec, and art file is being deleted and zero-filled (as well as paper files/physical artwork destroyed, of course ), I for one am not going to bury my hope that I may one day play some version of this game, hopefully completed by 3DR.

You've given up, you're ready to move on and forget about it...and that's fine. But, you have no moral right (and by "you" I mean everyone on this forum and pretty much everywhere else on the web right now that is discussing this topic and feels the way you do), to try and cram your point of view down the throats of those of us who want to forge on a bit longer.

We have that right, just as you have the right to walk away. Which brings me to the point of...why, if you're done here, do you stick around just to twist the knife deeper for the rest of us? Go do whatever it is you want to do now that this project is no longer of concern to you. All this extra time you've gained by not obsessing about the latest DNF news anymore could really be spent more constructively than continuing to troll the forum, don't you think?

I mean, just for some perspective...I'm not Christian (nor am I religious, for that matter), but I don't feel the need to walk into a local parish on Sunday morning and shout at the top of my lungs about how ridiculous I find their religious beliefs to be, and how I'm positive that their god doesn't exist (and how they should be too). That's completely rude and disrespectful. It isn't needed there, nor here...so let those of us who wish to speculate about what is happening behind the scenes and to dream of the day that we install DNF to do so.

If 3DR is handed a miracle in dev funding (as well as management) which leads to the completion of DNF someday I'll be ecstatic. If not I can live with that too, though I hope lives are not ruined by the unfortunate circumstances and mistakes leading to the fatal failure of a video game project. I'm not saying that I expect to play this game in the next 5 years, but I still hope that I do, and don't find it completely unfathomable.

The coffin may be constructed and Duke may be in it, but it isn't nailed shut quite yet...so I guess those of us that are "fools" will just have hang around and find out what happens.

How incredibly naive you sound. R22B wasn't being particularly negative nor pessimistic, simply realistic. People have been waxing lyrical these past few weeks about all the various possibilities of how DNF can be released. R22B was simply saying what a lot of us know DNF probably will never be released. So you're on a plane and the wings fall off and you start screaming that you're going to die, is that negative? Well I guess people have survived plane crashes before. Perhaps you could look on the bright side, order a gin and tonic and hope that perhaps the plane may grow wings or something.

There is still a substantial amount of work left for DNF to be completed, a development team is required, a large amount of money is required and a court case is pending. Now lets just assume for a minute that all of the above goes 3DRs way, we are talking well over a year before they can re-commence development, possibly another year and a half to completion. We're talking 2012. Even the biggest DNF fanboy knows that by then DNF will at very best be a run of the mill FPS and most likely will look relatively ordinary to other 2012 releases. And that my friend is why DNF will be scrapped - time. If DNF could come out tomorrow or 6 months or even a year, yeah it could do well. 3 years - nope. I know that, you know that, GB knows that, T2 knows that.

[AdrianGuenter]

Originally Posted by jaimie10

How incredibly naive you sound. R22B wasn't being particularly negative nor pessimistic, simply realistic. People have been waxing lyrical these past few weeks about all the various possibilities of how DNF can be released. R22B was simply saying what a lot of us know DNF probably will never be released. So you're on a plane and the wings fall off and you start screaming that you're going to die, is that negative? Well I guess people have survived plane crashes before. Perhaps you could look on the bright side, order a gin and tonic and hope that perhaps the plane may grow wings or something.

There is still a substantial amount of work left for DNF to be completed, a development team is required, a large amount of money is required and a court case is pending. Now lets just assume for a minute that all of the above goes 3DRs way, we are talking well over a year before they can re-commence development, possibly another year and a half to completion. We're talking 2012. Even the biggest DNF fanboy knows that by then DNF will at very best be a run of the mill FPS and most likely will look relatively ordinary to other 2012 releases. And that my friend is why DNF will be scrapped - time. If DNF could come out tomorrow or 6 months or even a year, yeah it could do well. 3 years - nope. I know that, you know that, GB knows that, T2 knows that.

You obviously missed my point. Until there is an official statement from George or Scott about the state of affairs as far as development is concerned, all these opinions flying around aren't anything except that...opinions. You can try and mold yours into fact just as much as I'd love to be able to magically mold my hope that DNF will see the light of day tomorrow into reality but that just isn't going to happen on either count.

Of course one can make an objective and rational assumption about where this will all end up leading, but until we get there and whatever is to be manifests itself as reality, it is and will continue to be pure conjecture. Not understanding that seems at least equally as naive.

And yes, he was being particularly negative. Statements like "DNF is dead. Dead. Dead. Dead.", "If 3DR were (big were) to do anything with DNF, no one would know about it so stop speculating. No one will pay $5 for a demo.", and "Move on. Duke is gone."

That's not negative? Who is he to tell anyone that they should "move on" and "stop speculating"? Is he George incognito? Are you? Doubtful. I much prefer to come off as naive, if being arrogant is the alternative.

Also, I'd pay $5 to play a demo. Heck, I'd even pay $10.

[jaimie10]

Ok I see your point. And I didn't mean to sound so insulting. I guess I, like others, are in disbelief at what has happened with DNF. I guess you could call me naive, but I half expected it to appear at E3!

[AdrianGuenter]

You and I both.

I didn't mean to come off as a clueless fanboi either, but it just seems completely silly to argue either side as if it was well known and concrete fact and to almost try to beat those that don't wish to see it the same way at this point into submission, in a sense. I mean realistically, yeah...it looks really, really bad, but we have no idea what's going on behind closed doors. If DNF miraculously ends up on shelves I'll be as shocked as anyone (even though it is hard to be completely surprised by any news from the 3DR camp anymore) but stranger things will have happened and will continue to happen in the world.

[DarkJedi2]

Originally Posted by jaimie10

There is still a substantial amount of work left for DNF to be completed

We don't know that and there is plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite.
1) The guy who's brother worked at 3DR made lots of claims online related to the game, every single one of those claims that could be confirmed from the leaks that happened later ended up being true... One of the claims he made was that the game had a development cut-off of November 2009, in other words, the end of this year. What it means is that they were probably in the stages of adding detail and tweaking and intended to do that until the end of the year, then say, "it's done".
2) If you take the leaked document's creation date/modification date and look at the level's completion % and project it forward to the point where all this shit went down, it suggests an average completion of 95% for the levels, yes, there could still be bugs, but that is not a bad statistic to go with. If they were running a bit slow then the levels would probably be at around 90% complete.
3) They were hitting milestones that were agreed with Take-Two, so they couldn't have been far off-track.
4) At least one of the employees that have left has indicated that the game was near shipping.
5) George Broussard stated on his twitter account that there are 71 tasks remaining out of an initial 900. Some think this is for the current milestone, but most assume this is for the full game.
6) A picture showing some of the remaining tasks has been released online by George showing some of the things that still need doing. Looking through that list, I don't see anything critical to actually shipping the game, sure, they are nice-to-have's to get a polished game, but from what I've seen of their task-list, it all seems like they were just tweaking the game now.

Perhaps all of this information that indicates the game was near shipping is incorrect and the game was actually years away from completion... I don't know, but my point is that you can't assume there was a substantial amount left to do on the game. We also can't assume that things really are down to funding. These kinds of situations are usually more complicated than they appear to be.

edit: Oh, and out of interest sake, I have not seen any information so far that indicates that the game wasn't in a near-complete state... I'm not saying this is definitive proof, but it is something to think about.