Here's a list for *possible* returning characters....

worr · 10-31-2003, 07:37 PM

Thought I'd attempt to compile a list of who might be returning for the sequel based on what we *see* unfold during the game.

: Bravura. He lives.

: Vlad. Dead. Really dead. Not unlike the Romanian ruler with a thirst for blood that history knows of.

: Kaufman. He's a deader too.

: Woden. Unlike the norse god for which he takes his name, our Woden was on his way out the door before taking slugs to the stomach. Ouch!

: Vinnie. Here's a tricky one. Sort of. We assume that he was blown up (especially when viewing the *gaming* tv segment between Vlad and Vinnie) YET I couldn't make out anything but the tattered bits of the Captain Baseball Bat Boy costume. No evidence of *body parts*. Hmmm. My imagination or just wishful thinking? He was a hilarious character.

His was a tragic ending for one so full of potential.

: Mike the Cowboy. here's another tricky one. He either goes with you and dies OR stays behind and survives. Potential revenge factor for Max in the next game.

: Mona. This is the biggie. She dies in one, lives in the other. Logic suggests that Remedy will *probably* go with her living for the sequel. Now, some are going to insist that she can't come back because most of us will never play the game through again on DOA and never learn of the now famous, second ending.

But wait......

I counter this with that since it's in the game, WAITING for discovery and them knowing we're going to find it and like it more than the first ending, then.... Do I have to spell this one out for you? Mona is coming back. A ending serving as a reward is NO reward if it's fake.

: Winterson. Oh come on! She obviously was *pretending* to be dead on that gurney, in the morgue. I'm surprised that no one saw this.....

: The Cleaners. Payback time is expected for them against Max and his lady love when the surviving members form a pact and....... work out a new collective contract. But first, there's that poker game to attend to.

: Those poor security guards and nurses. May they rest in the peace. Or WILL they?

: The mafia. By now most of them are heading back their mommies or seriously considering that early retirement package when the topic turns to Max and his femme fatale sidekick. What they realise of course, is that Max and Mona still have to work out the agression in their tortured souls and *only* the anguished screams of dying mobsters will do.

: Annie...... She's not coming back. "She's dead, Jim".

Finally.......

: Max. This is a no-brainer. Or is it? Did he die on the operating table? Naaaaaa. Max still has so much to offer to the world and he needs to complete the *act* with Mona since they were so rudely interrupted ealier.

Happy halloween!

Xenomrph · 10-31-2003, 07:43 PM

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Mike the Cowboy. here's another tricky one. He either goes with you and dies OR stays behind and survives. Potential revenge factor for Max in the next game.

Actually... it's more like: Either he goes with you in the first Vodka level and dies... or he goes with you in the first Vodka level, survives, and then you kill him later when you return to Vodka after you realize Vladimir is an enemy. Either way, Mike the Cowboy is dead.

worr · 10-31-2003, 07:55 PM

Is it confimed that he *fights* against you on your return trip to Vodka and dies? When I played, I always took him with me and thus his death.

Damn bastard was always rushing straight to his doom.......

Xenomrph · 10-31-2003, 10:14 PM

Yes, it's confirmed. Try leaving him behind in the first Vodka level, and then when you play the later Vodka level, it's Mike the Cowboy on the intercomm, taunting you. It's actually REALLY funny. At the end, he's in Vlad's office, and you have to fight him. Give it a shot.

Psyder · 10-31-2003, 11:53 PM

Mike dies when u go back to Vodka he is in Vlad's office!!!

that means no Vlad!!

worr · 11-01-2003, 01:29 AM

Next time I play through again (like, right now), I'll leave him behind and listen to his taunts later on. Sounds funny.....

worr · 11-05-2003, 07:07 PM

I can accept this about Vlad. Now.....

Why was Annie killed? And by Vlad's cleaners, no less? Was Vlad double crossing her or did she fulfill her purpose and had to go? They were less than impressed when she informed them that she was working for Vlad.

Why did Vlad put Vinnie in the costume with the bomb, leave him at his place only to send his cleaners back later to kill him? Did Vlad have an unscheduled appointment somewhere else? This is another one that threw me.....

FullMetalJacket · 11-05-2003, 07:18 PM

I don't know why everyone says there's no evidence of Vinnie's remains in the tattered CBBB costume. Why would there be? The MAX-FX engine doesn't model gibbing. And if you look close enough when you're Mona in the funhouse level, you can actually see QUITE a bit of blood on both the head and torso of the costume.

There was a large amount of explosives attached to the costume. An explosion that size, six inches behind Vinnie's head? He wouldn't have survived that. He wasn't even a tough guy in the first place.

lolo603 · 11-06-2003, 10:10 AM

i guess Bravura is dead since we actually saw him died in Max's dream...

and plz don't bring Mona back... she's dead... i don't care about the 2nd ending coz i think that's crap... the 1st ending fits better to the story since what happened in the end should be strong enough to make Max come into realization (make him realize that's life, and nthg really matters to him no more, that's how the last page of the comic "i had a dream about my wife, she was dead, but it was alright" fit in)...

i seriously doubt that Remedy will make MP3... since it's all over w/ Max... he has gone thru so much and it will actually be boring to see Max being setup and betray in another situation again...

if they ever gonna make MP3, it should have a brand new storyline maybe w/ new main character even...

Wamplet · 11-06-2003, 10:46 AM

": Winterson. Oh come on! She obviously was *pretending* to be dead on that gurney, in the morgue. I'm surprised that no one saw this..... "

Yeah, I agree on this one. I think she lives through it and will hopefully have ties with someone else who will be behind the story in part 3. Who exactly did she have ties with and were they all killed in part 2?

Even if she died, whoever she reported to or leaked info to could still have it in for max. Especially, if it was multiple people.

FullMetalJacket · 11-06-2003, 11:09 AM

Even a suppressed .22 at that range would have killed Winterson. An unmuffled 9mm shot at the range Max shot her at, would have killed her. Didn't you notice the huge, bloody, smoldering hole in her chest? I don't think anyone could have survived that.

Xenomrph · 11-06-2003, 12:12 PM

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i guess Bravura is dead since we actually saw him died in Max's dream...

Keyword being "dream"... Bravura is very much alive. Max even SEES him survive later on in the hospital level, and the news report you hear at the end of Woden's manor says Bravura is in stable condition and will make a full recovery.

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the 1st ending fits better to the story

How? Max falls in love with Mona and she falls in love with him... and he gets shafted? How does that fit anything?

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that's how the last page of the comic "i had a dream about my wife, she was dead, but it was alright" fit in

Listen to how he says that line in each ending. In the second ending, he says it as if he's actually happy for the first time in years.

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if they ever gonna make MP3, it should have a brand new storyline maybe w/ new main character even...

Well, that doesn't make any sense. What's the point in calling it "Max Payne 3" if Max isn't in it? Besides, the last line of the credits for MP2 flat-out confirms that Max's journey into the night will continue.

Wamplet · 11-06-2003, 12:21 PM

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Didn't you notice the huge, bloody, smoldering hole in her chest? I don't think anyone could have survived that.

Sure, but who's to say she wasn't heavily stocked up on condiment packets.

[troll]Max was shot in the novel a few times and managed to live through it.

[/troll]

worr · 11-06-2003, 03:46 PM

": Winterson. Oh come on! She obviously was *pretending* to be dead on that gurney, in the morgue. I'm surprised that no one saw this....."

People, this was suppose to a joke. She's definitely dead and not coming back. And yes, in regards to Vinnie, upon closer inspection, I could make out blood among the costume wreckage which was all that was left of poor Vincent. Strange that Mona of all people, comments on "poor guy, poor bastard". I would have thought she was made of sterner stuff than this. Especially so considering who Vinnie was.

And if Max can take the amount of damage he did throughout the game and still continue, then its conceivable that Mona took that shoot in the back and survives herself in the second ending.

FullMetalJacket · 11-06-2003, 08:40 PM

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Max even SEES Bravura survive later on in the hospital level

Um, are you sure about that?!

11-06-2003, 09:04 PM

Thanks for this. I was trying to work out which characters could possibly reappear in the level I'm creating.

Xenomrph · 11-06-2003, 09:35 PM

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Max even SEES Bravura survive later on in the hospital level

Um, are you sure about that?!

Yes. In the level "Too Stubborn to Die", Max looks on a security monitor and sees Bravura being operated on.

lolo603 · 11-06-2003, 10:45 PM

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i guess Bravura is dead since we actually saw him died in Max's dream...

Keyword being "dream"... Bravura is very much alive. Max even SEES him survive later on in the hospital level, and the news report you hear at the end of Woden's manor says Bravura is in stable condition and will make a full recovery.

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the 1st ending fits better to the story

How? Max falls in love with Mona and she falls in love with him... and he gets shafted? How does that fit anything?

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that's how the last page of the comic "i had a dream about my wife, she was dead, but it was alright" fit in

Listen to how he says that line in each ending. In the second ending, he says it as if he's actually happy for the first time in years.

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if they ever gonna make MP3, it should have a brand new storyline maybe w/ new main character even...

Well, that doesn't make any sense. What's the point in calling it "Max Payne 3" if Max isn't in it? Besides, the last line of the credits for MP2 flat-out confirms that Max's journey into the night will continue.

i stand corrected for Bravura... but the thing is he is nvr an important character so it doesn't really matter if he returns or not... personally i think he "looks" better in MP1 than in MP2... =P

yes the 1st ending fits better... like i said what happened in the end should be ugly enough to stun Max... making him to come to realization... to understand that's life... and nthg is a fxxxing big deal to him anymore...

2nd ending is the so-called happy ending, that max finally get over w/ his past and starts a new life w/ mona... but the thing is it gives a feeling that max is an ass... sthg like "oh i have mona now, so it's ok that my wife died, i mean hey, at least i am happy joo"... LOL what an ass... =P

max is a stubborn person... what happened to his wife and to his baby girl is the thing that drives him into the revengeful storyline of MP... it's not like he'll let go even if he is together w/ mona in MP2... u have to understand the feeling that even if u accept the fact of the lost of ur wife, it's still gonna hurts when u think of it... it's always there... u can nvr let it go... it's nvr gonna be "alright" in any happy way (yes i noticed he sound happy for the 2nd ending)...

here's a little bit extension of what i think about MP3... still i think it's gonna be boring if max is being setup again... if they ever gonna make it, the storyline have to be stunning enough to surprise me... besides i can see max gets so old in MP2... i wouldn't want to see an old max in MP3 doing the spinning bullet-time reload move...
personally i think MP1 has better storyline than MP2... extremely bad thing have to happen for max being "i have nthg to lose"... MP1 works perfectly w/ that w/ the lost of his wife and daughter...
MP2 is like a lovey dovey kinda deal... the storyline nvr explain how max fell in love w/ mona... he simply love mona at the beginning of the MP2 (as we can see from the phone sex line recording)... i mean come on he nvr gets to know mona... now i do understand that we'll think certain type of girls being "cute" and all on the street and will have the urge of wanting her... but that's for a sex related purpose... sex and love are 2 different things...

hope this clears up my point... i don't speak english btw so let's hope u ppl won't have too much trouble reading my posts...

Arkalius · 11-07-2003, 01:43 AM

Well what about Max's fate? He did kill Winterson without good cause (as far as any court of law is concerned) and he has no mysterious benefactor this time to bail him out...

An interesting piece of trivia in the original post... Woden is the anglo-saxon version of Odin (the head god of Asgard in Norse mythology), and is where the name of the 4th day of the week comes from. Woden's day - "Wednesday".

So you all know...

Sunday - duhh... the Sun
Monday - Moon
Tuesday - Tiu's Day, Tiu is the anglo-saxon version of Tyr, son of Odin
Wednesday - as above
Thursday - Thor's Day, Thor is another son of Odin
Friday - Frigg's Day, Frigg is Odin's wife.
Saturday - Saturn

FullMetalJacket · 11-07-2003, 12:24 PM

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In the level "Too Stubborn to Die", Max looks on a security monitor and sees Bravura being operated on.

Well techincally, Max only does it if the player has him do it.

I never found that security monitor.

Xenomrph · 11-07-2003, 12:36 PM

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sthg like "oh i have mona now, so it's ok that my wife died, i mean hey, at least i am happy joo"... LOL what an ass... =P

So... what does that say about people who's husbands or wives die, but end up finding someone new and moving on with their life? Isn't that kinda insulting and demeaning to them?
Think about it. it's been 5 years since Max's wife died, and he finally found someone he can love, who loves him back. What's the problem with that?

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what happened to his wife and to his baby girl is the thing that drives him into the revengeful storyline of MP... it's not like he'll let go even if he is together w/ mona in MP2...

Sure he does. Right from the start of the game, he's thinking of Mona.
Besides, no matter what ending you do, Max says "She [my wife] was dead, but it was all right". Either way, he's moved past the fact that his wife is gone, and has been gone for 5 years. So... what's the problem with him being happy with someone else?

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u have to understand the feeling that even if u accept the fact of the lost of ur wife, it's still gonna hurts when u think of it... it's always there... u can nvr let it go... it's nvr gonna be "alright" in any happy way

No, you'll never forget, but yes, you can move on. I personally know people who have. It doesn't make them a bad person, or an "ass" as you put it. It's called getting on with your life.

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besides i can see max gets so old in MP2...

Um... it's only been 2 years since the events in Max Payne 1.

lolo603 · 11-08-2003, 03:30 AM

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So... what does that say about people who's husbands or wives die, but end up finding someone new and moving on with their life? Isn't that kinda insulting and demeaning to them?
Think about it. it's been 5 years since Max's wife died, and he finally found someone he can love, who loves him back. What's the problem with that?

it's obvious that was not what i was saying... u should know better that i actually mean u'll nvr say "it's alright" in any happy way no matter how much time has passed... from what u are saying 5 yrs seems to be a long time to u???

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Sure he does. Right from the start of the game, he's thinking of Mona.
Besides, no matter what ending you do, Max says "She [my wife] was dead, but it was all right". Either way, he's moved past the fact that his wife is gone, and has been gone for 5 years. So... what's the problem with him being happy with someone else?

Max does love Mona coz the game makes him loves her at the beginning of the game (like u said)... what i said is the game nvr explains the reason y he fell in love w/ Mona...
i didn't say anythg about it's not ok to be happy w/ someone else... that's allowed... i was referring to the last page of the comic saying that no matter how happy ur life is right now, u can nvr say "it's alright" in a happy way about ur past...
accepting the fact doesn't mean it doesn't hurt u still, and therefore, no happy tone...

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No, you'll never forget, but yes, you can move on. I personally know people who have. It doesn't make them a bad person, or an "ass" as you put it. It's called getting on with your life.

u should know better what i have says... now just stop tweaking the stuff i said... u are the one who mentioned the way max say the last line of the comic has happy tones... and my point is max should nvr say that line in a happy tone... i bet ur friends will nvr say those lines in any happy tones...
once again, accept the facts and getting on w/ life doesn't mean it doesn't hurt... so, no way to say anythg like that in a happy tone...
and it DOES make them a bad person or an "ass" if they do say it in a happy tone...

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Um... it's only been 2 years since the events in Max Payne 1.

and he grew so old already???

@Xenomrph, i have been reading ur other posts and realized u really do like picking tiny things in other ppl's post here and there, and say it's wrong or whatever... try to pick things up as a whole next time... i am telling u sometimes if u don't hear everythg as a whole, meanings will be tweaked...
and there's really no point for u to challenge those point coz that's not exactly what ppl were trying to say...

to be honest w/ u, this does sound like an "occupational harzard" (or whatever it's called) to me... it seems like u are a business/literature person...

coz from my world, my life, it's either right or wrong... (i am into engineering btw)... if it's wrong there's no way to prove that u are right... actually i don't even have to type long articles w/ pretty words just to prove myself right... coz what's right is right...

from what u are doing, it seems like u are the type of person that will focus on ur good point and attack other ppl's weak point (or sthg that u can use to attack them even thou it's not what other ppl meant)... trying to prove to ppl that u are the one who's right and other ppl is wrong by deceiving the appearence... so ppl will actually believe u and buy ur product or whatever... i really dislike that (u can treat it as biased) coz what u are doing is treating ur customers as idiots...

u can ignore the last part of this post if u don't like it... but i want u to understand that i am not insulting u or anythg... it's just me... treat it as me getting tired seeing u attack the points that i did not make...

Xenomrph · 11-08-2003, 01:41 PM

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it's obvious that was not what i was saying... u should know better that i actually mean u'll nvr say "it's alright" in any happy way no matter how much time has passed... from what u are saying 5 yrs seems to be a long time to u???

Yeah, I consider 5 years long enough for Max to move on and be happy.

I disagree that it's "not okay" to say "it was all right" in a happy tone. I mean, aside from it just being semantics, I see no problem with someone being happy with someone else and moving on with their life. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree?

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and it DOES make them a bad person or an "ass" if they do say it in a happy tone...

I completely disagree with you there. I personally know people who have experienced such loss and have managed to be happy - it doesn't make them an "ass".

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@Xenomrph, i have been reading ur other posts and realized u really do like picking tiny things in other ppl's post here and there, and say it's wrong or whatever... try to pick things up as a whole next time...

That's simply how I choose to discuss things - it's the parts that make up the whole, so I address individual parts individually. It doesn't mean I don't understand the whole - I definately do. I just don't agree with it, and that's my choice.

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to be honest w/ u, this does sound like an "occupational harzard" (or whatever it's called) to me... it seems like u are a business/literature person...

Nope, I'm a Criminal Justice major, sophomore in college.

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coz from my world, my life, it's either right or wrong... (i am into engineering btw)... if it's wrong there's no way to prove that u are right... actually i don't even have to type long articles w/ pretty words just to prove myself right... coz what's right is right...

Hmm... you know the difference between "fact" and "opinion", correct? For the most part, there's no such thing as a "wrong" opinion.

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from what u are doing, it seems like u are the type of person that will focus on ur good point and attack other ppl's weak point

Well, yes. Such is the nature of "debate".

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but i want u to understand that i am not insulting u or anythg...

Yeah, I already knew that.

11-08-2003, 01:44 PM

Well the in monitor we can see Bravura having operation to save him

The Manor, near the end where Vlad taunts you behind the class
In Wodens office is TV, the newscast tells that Bravura's condition is stable if i recall right

Also
Wintersson had a son
Mentioned in the msg at Vlads office during the second visit to Vodka
also blind one it seems (The Brooklyn school for blind add on Wintersons board next to her desk)

woot!
MP3. The revenge of the blind son

Killabilly · 11-08-2003, 03:04 PM

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MP3. The revenge of the blind son

HAHA hows that gonna work?

"Say something so I know where you are Payne!"

lolo603 · 11-08-2003, 04:37 PM

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I completely disagree with you there. I personally know people who have experienced such loss and have managed to be happy - it doesn't make them an "ass".

i wasn't saying they cannot be happy... they can manage to get happy afterwards... happy as a whole... but they can nvr say anythg like it's okay that their wife died in any happy tone... get it???

i guess sthg is wrong w/ my english maybe???

and debate is nvr my thing... as long as u understand my point then it's ok... somehow u just keep misunderstanding the stuff i was trying to say...
and it's not like i actually pay any attention to how other ppl thinks...

coz i always do believe in myself...

Xenomrph · 11-08-2003, 08:07 PM

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but they can nvr say anythg like it's okay that their wife died in any happy tone... get it???

I really think we're playing an unnecessary semantic game with this - Max is simply happy. He's not happy that his wife is dead - he's simply happy that he's in love and that that person loves him back. I really don't see the problem with that.

lolo603 · 11-08-2003, 08:31 PM

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but they can nvr say anythg like it's okay that their wife died in any happy tone... get it???

I really think we're playing an unnecessary semantic game with this - Max is simply happy. He's not happy that his wife is dead - he's simply happy that he's in love and that that person loves him back. I really don't see the problem with that.

hey u know what??? my wife is dead... but it's alright...

coz i am in love w/ a new girl...

wtf???

right right... i guess u just don't see it... guess that's ok...

Xenomrph · 11-08-2003, 11:24 PM

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ight right... i guess u just don't see it... guess that's ok...

No, I "see" it just fine - I just disagree with you that it's "not okay" for Max to be happy since he's found someone who loves him and he loves them back.

Ruger · 11-09-2003, 12:40 AM

As someone who enjoys arguing with Xenomrph, I would have to say it's best to drop this issue between the two of you lolo603.

You aren't even arguing about the game anymore, just personal beliefs. This will never be resolved. Ever.

worr · 11-09-2003, 01:49 AM

Since the *war* is formally over, and looking back at my originallly post, one thing still baffles me.

Why did the cleaners kill Annie? She was under the impression she was working for Vlad and the cleaners were working for him and so therefore logic suggests he ordered the hit on her. Tying up loose ends?

But if you listen to the message Vlad leaves on her machine, you will hear Vlad make a suggestive comment followed by *beware of trespassers*. So it sounds like he was trying to warn her or something? Arrrrgh!!

Where are my painkillers?

Xenomrph · 11-09-2003, 02:06 AM

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You aren't even arguing about the game anymore, just personal beliefs. This will never be resolved. Ever.

Yeah, I knew that a long time ago. Kinda why I asked if he was willing to "agree to disagree".

As for Annie and the Cleaners... I figured Vlad was tying up loose ends, but at the least his phone call could be seen as a few things:

1. When the cops inevitably investigate, it gives Vlad an alibi and makes it harder for them to tie him to the Cleaners. As a player, did YOU make the connection at that point in the game? If the answer is "no", then his message did it's job, didn't it?

2. Vlad is trying to make Annie not suspect him of anything. Of course, odds are she never got the message.

3. Vlad *IS* warning her of potential trespassers. Trespassers like Max.

worr · 11-09-2003, 03:30 AM

Maybe I was imagining things but were there bodies of mafia guys in the warehouse? Annie said something about the cleaners taking them out and her having no beef with them about this.

Vlad's message is interesting. It could be to cover his tracks, but then again. Why LEAVE a message on the machine of a known arms dealer which anyone INCLUDING the police might listen to and think "hmmmm", this sounds like someone we might like to talk to regarding her murder. This doesn't make sense to me. He could have left the message warning Annie about the mafia guys making an appearance and perhas Mona showing up, but I think this a stretch in logic.

Regardles, in the end we have the cleaners who kill Annie, who was working for Vlad who in turn employed the cleaners/commandos. It's enough to make your head spin.

Xenomrph · 11-09-2003, 11:41 AM

Well, if they talk with Vlad about the murder, it gives him even MORE opportunity to push any suspicion away from himself.

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Maybe I was imagining things but were there bodies of mafia guys in the warehouse? Annie said something about the cleaners taking them out and her having no beef with them about this.

Yeah, that quote always kinda puzzled me, but I certainly don't remember any Mafia guys in that level, personally.

Killabilly · 11-09-2003, 12:40 PM

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Yeah, that quote always kinda puzzled me, but I certainly don't remember any Mafia guys in that level, personally.

Theres one on the floor, dead. With the cleaners convo going on someting about poison gas.
Near the end of the level when the cleaners were getting away there were a whole bunch of body bags, some of them with mafia faces.

Xenomrph · 11-09-2003, 05:44 PM

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Yeah, that quote always kinda puzzled me, but I certainly don't remember any Mafia guys in that level, personally.

Theres one on the floor, dead. With the cleaners convo going on someting about poison gas.
Near the end of the level when the cleaners were getting away there were a whole bunch of body bags, some of them with mafia faces.

Hmm... I'll replay the level. I always thought those guys were just "security". But if they ARE Mafia... then yeah, then Vlad could have been calling Annie to warn about the Mafia showing up. I'd never really given it much thought.

worr · 11-09-2003, 08:16 PM

So, Vlad calls and leaves a message warning her of *trespassers* who are the mafia guys (Vinnie's boys?) and he THEN sends the cleaners over to take them out who THEN proceed to take her as well? Something doesn't add up here. And factor in Mona showing up to knock off Vlad's men and......?

Tommyboy · 11-11-2003, 01:58 AM

And if you turn on the TV in Woden's manor before going up the elevator to Woden's bedroom it gives a newscast and says Bravura is in stable condition.

Wamplet · 11-11-2003, 10:31 AM

The guy really deserves to die. though. After all, he has really bad "gut instincts." Especially about Max.

worr · 11-16-2003, 03:27 AM

I just realized something. Annie worked for the mafia. I somehow assumed she worked for Vlad but I think she was on *contract* work with him. Explains the cleaner's comments "honey, you work for no one".

So in the end, it looks like she was a loose end that needed to be cleaned up, especially since Vinnie and Vlad's war was underway.....

11-06-2003, 09:04 PM	#16
Darkemsoft Guest	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** Thanks for this. I was trying to work out which characters could possibly reappear in the level I'm creating.

11-08-2003, 01:44 PM	#24
Guest Guest	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** Well the in monitor we can see Bravura having operation to save him The Manor, near the end where Vlad taunts you behind the class In Wodens office is TV, the newscast tells that Bravura's condition is stable if i recall right Also Wintersson had a son Mentioned in the msg at Vlads office during the second visit to Vodka also blind one it seems (The Brooklyn school for blind add on Wintersons board next to her desk) woot! MP3. The revenge of the blind son

10-31-2003, 07:37 PM	#1
worr	*Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** Thought I'd attempt to compile a list of who might be returning for the sequel based on what we see unfold during the game. : Bravura. He lives. : Vlad. Dead. Really dead. Not unlike the Romanian ruler with a thirst for blood that history knows of. : Kaufman. He's a deader too. : Woden. Unlike the norse god for which he takes his name, our Woden was on his way out the door before taking slugs to the stomach. Ouch! : Vinnie. Here's a tricky one. Sort of. We assume that he was blown up (especially when viewing the gaming tv segment between Vlad and Vinnie) YET I couldn't make out anything but the tattered bits of the Captain Baseball Bat Boy costume. No evidence of body parts. Hmmm. My imagination or just wishful thinking? He was a hilarious character. His was a tragic ending for one so full of potential. : Mike the Cowboy. here's another tricky one. He either goes with you and dies OR stays behind and survives. Potential revenge factor for Max in the next game. : Mona. This is the biggie. She dies in one, lives in the other. Logic suggests that Remedy will probably go with her living for the sequel. Now, some are going to insist that she can't come back because most of us will never play the game through again on DOA and never learn of the now famous, second ending. But wait...... I counter this with that since it's in the game, WAITING for discovery and them knowing we're going to find it and like it more than the first ending, then.... Do I have to spell this one out for you? Mona is coming back. A ending serving as a reward is NO reward if it's fake. : Winterson. Oh come on! She obviously was pretending to be dead on that gurney, in the morgue. I'm surprised that no one saw this..... : The Cleaners. Payback time is expected for them against Max and his lady love when the surviving members form a pact and....... work out a new collective contract. But first, there's that poker game to attend to. : Those poor security guards and nurses. May they rest in the peace. Or WILL they? : The mafia. By now most of them are heading back their mommies or seriously considering that early retirement package when the topic turns to Max and his femme fatale sidekick. What they realise of course, is that Max and Mona still have to work out the agression in their tortured souls and only the anguished screams of dying mobsters will do. : Annie...... She's not coming back. "She's dead, Jim". Finally....... : Max. This is a no-brainer. Or is it? Did he die on the operating table? Naaaaaa. Max still has so much to offer to the world and he needs to complete the act with Mona since they were so rudely interrupted ealier. Happy halloween!

10-31-2003, 07:55 PM	#3
worr	Re: Those who died, those who survive and the rest??? Is it confimed that he fights against you on your return trip to Vodka and dies? When I played, I always took him with me and thus his death. Damn bastard was always rushing straight to his doom.......

10-31-2003, 10:14 PM	#4
Xenomrph	Re: Those who died, those who survive and the rest??? Yes, it's confirmed. Try leaving him behind in the first Vodka level, and then when you play the later Vodka level, it's Mike the Cowboy on the intercomm, taunting you. It's actually REALLY funny. At the end, he's in Vlad's office, and you have to fight him. Give it a shot. __________________ Xenomrph Author - unofficial Max Payne novelization Author - unofficial Max Payne 2 novelization (forthcoming)

10-31-2003, 11:53 PM	#5
Psyder	Re: Those who died, those who survive and the rest??? Mike dies when u go back to Vodka he is in Vlad's office!!! that means no Vlad!!

11-01-2003, 01:29 AM	#6
worr	Re: Those who died, those who survive and the rest??? Next time I play through again (like, right now), I'll leave him behind and listen to his taunts later on. Sounds funny.....

11-05-2003, 07:07 PM	#7
worr	Re: Those who died, those who survive and the rest??? I can accept this about Vlad. Now..... Why was Annie killed? And by Vlad's cleaners, no less? Was Vlad double crossing her or did she fulfill her purpose and had to go? They were less than impressed when she informed them that she was working for Vlad. Why did Vlad put Vinnie in the costume with the bomb, leave him at his place only to send his cleaners back later to kill him? Did Vlad have an unscheduled appointment somewhere else? This is another one that threw me.....

11-05-2003, 07:18 PM	#8
FullMetalJacket	Re: Those who died, those who survive and the rest??? I don't know why everyone says there's no evidence of Vinnie's remains in the tattered CBBB costume. Why would there be? The MAX-FX engine doesn't model gibbing. And if you look close enough when you're Mona in the funhouse level, you can actually see QUITE a bit of blood on both the head and torso of the costume. There was a large amount of explosives attached to the costume. An explosion that size, six inches behind Vinnie's head? He wouldn't have survived that. He wasn't even a tough guy in the first place. __________________ AIM screenname: MGamer16 "My father would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy; the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament."

11-06-2003, 10:10 AM	#9
lolo603	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** i guess Bravura is dead since we actually saw him died in Max's dream... and plz don't bring Mona back... she's dead... i don't care about the 2nd ending coz i think that's crap... the 1st ending fits better to the story since what happened in the end should be strong enough to make Max come into realization (make him realize that's life, and nthg really matters to him no more, that's how the last page of the comic "i had a dream about my wife, she was dead, but it was alright" fit in)... i seriously doubt that Remedy will make MP3... since it's all over w/ Max... he has gone thru so much and it will actually be boring to see Max being setup and betray in another situation again... if they ever gonna make MP3, it should have a brand new storyline maybe w/ new main character even...

11-06-2003, 10:46 AM	#10
Wamplet	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** ": Winterson. Oh come on! She obviously was pretending to be dead on that gurney, in the morgue. I'm surprised that no one saw this..... " Yeah, I agree on this one. I think she lives through it and will hopefully have ties with someone else who will be behind the story in part 3. Who exactly did she have ties with and were they all killed in part 2? Even if she died, whoever she reported to or leaked info to could still have it in for max. Especially, if it was multiple people. __________________ "IT'S HUGE!!!!" -chimera I think it's a 17"... or maybe it's a 19"..... it's huge... and bulky! but it has served me quite well -Mariamus "You're dying after Wamplet and Politics." -L'Bulgeur "By god... Wamp has a point." -Damien_Azreal

11-06-2003, 11:09 AM	#11
FullMetalJacket	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** Even a suppressed .22 at that range would have killed Winterson. An unmuffled 9mm shot at the range Max shot her at, would have killed her. Didn't you notice the huge, bloody, smoldering hole in her chest? I don't think anyone could have survived that. __________________ AIM screenname: MGamer16 "My father would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy; the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament."

11-06-2003, 03:46 PM	#14
worr	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** ": Winterson. Oh come on! She obviously was pretending to be dead on that gurney, in the morgue. I'm surprised that no one saw this....." People, this was suppose to a joke. She's definitely dead and not coming back. And yes, in regards to Vinnie, upon closer inspection, I could make out blood among the costume wreckage which was all that was left of poor Vincent. Strange that Mona of all people, comments on "poor guy, poor bastard". I would have thought she was made of sterner stuff than this. Especially so considering who Vinnie was. And if Max can take the amount of damage he did throughout the game and still continue, then its conceivable that Mona took that shoot in the back and survives herself in the second ending.

11-07-2003, 01:43 AM	#19
Arkalius	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** Well what about Max's fate? He did kill Winterson without good cause (as far as any court of law is concerned) and he has no mysterious benefactor this time to bail him out... An interesting piece of trivia in the original post... Woden is the anglo-saxon version of Odin (the head god of Asgard in Norse mythology), and is where the name of the 4th day of the week comes from. Woden's day - "Wednesday". So you all know... Sunday - duhh... the Sun Monday - Moon Tuesday - Tiu's Day, Tiu is the anglo-saxon version of Tyr, son of Odin Wednesday - as above Thursday - Thor's Day, Thor is another son of Odin Friday - Frigg's Day, Frigg is Odin's wife. Saturday - Saturn __________________ -Arkalius

11-09-2003, 12:40 AM	#30
Ruger	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returni** As someone who enjoys arguing with Xenomrph, I would have to say it's best to drop this issue between the two of you lolo603. You aren't even arguing about the game anymore, just personal beliefs. This will never be resolved. Ever. __________________ "It's like a bad relationship where your girlfriend keeps telling you it'll get better, and sure things are fine for a while, but before you know it there she is again pawning your stuff for meth and trying to suffocate you with a pillow as you sleep." - Hudson

11-09-2003, 01:49 AM	#31
worr	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returni** Since the war is formally over, and looking back at my originallly post, one thing still baffles me. Why did the cleaners kill Annie? She was under the impression she was working for Vlad and the cleaners were working for him and so therefore logic suggests he ordered the hit on her. Tying up loose ends? But if you listen to the message Vlad leaves on her machine, you will hear Vlad make a suggestive comment followed by beware of trespassers. So it sounds like he was trying to warn her or something? Arrrrgh!! Where are my painkillers?

11-09-2003, 03:30 AM	#33
worr	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returni** Maybe I was imagining things but were there bodies of mafia guys in the warehouse? Annie said something about the cleaners taking them out and her having no beef with them about this. Vlad's message is interesting. It could be to cover his tracks, but then again. Why LEAVE a message on the machine of a known arms dealer which anyone INCLUDING the police might listen to and think "hmmmm", this sounds like someone we might like to talk to regarding her murder. This doesn't make sense to me. He could have left the message warning Annie about the mafia guys making an appearance and perhas Mona showing up, but I think this a stretch in logic. Regardles, in the end we have the cleaners who kill Annie, who was working for Vlad who in turn employed the cleaners/commandos. It's enough to make your head spin.

11-09-2003, 08:16 PM	#37
worr	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returni** So, Vlad calls and leaves a message warning her of trespassers who are the mafia guys (Vinnie's boys?) and he THEN sends the cleaners over to take them out who THEN proceed to take her as well? Something doesn't add up here. And factor in Mona showing up to knock off Vlad's men and......?

11-11-2003, 01:58 AM	#38
Tommyboy	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** And if you turn on the TV in Woden's manor before going up the elevator to Woden's bedroom it gives a newscast and says Bravura is in stable condition.

11-11-2003, 10:31 AM	#39
Wamplet	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** The guy really deserves to die. though. After all, he has really bad "gut instincts." Especially about Max. __________________ "IT'S HUGE!!!!" -chimera I think it's a 17"... or maybe it's a 19"..... it's huge... and bulky! but it has served me quite well -Mariamus "You're dying after Wamplet and Politics." -L'Bulgeur "By god... Wamp has a point." -Damien_Azreal

11-16-2003, 03:27 AM	#40
worr	*Re: Here\'s a list for possible* returning characters....** I just realized something. Annie worked for the mafia. I somehow assumed she worked for Vlad but I think she was on contract work with him. Explains the cleaner's comments "honey, you work for no one". So in the end, it looks like she was a loose end that needed to be cleaned up, especially since Vinnie and Vlad's war was underway.....