Commander Keen series

stonestn · 06-06-2007, 11:13 AM

Surprised i havent seen anything posted reguarding the commander Keen series. I remember playing all of them including keen dream (the lost episode) made by softdisk back when I was 17 been along time and of course dont have any of the disks to bad I couldnt forsee the future and classics coming back through the use of emulators or I would have held on to them all this time. I was wondering maybe Im the odd tool in the tool shed since noone is really discussing Commander keen apgoee episodes 1 - 6. But any plans in the future (hopefully) of rereleasing the keen series reworked somewhat so that xp and vista can play them or (long shot) having them in line for freeware besides the duke nukem orginals before the 3d version the side scrolling 1 and 2 this was in my opinion the best side scrolling series that apogee ever had released

Thanks for taking the time to read this post

Stones

Shadow Master · 06-07-2007, 08:48 AM

Apogee (3D Realms) can't release'em as freeware unless ID decides to do so.
And ID Software abandoned the CK series just after releasing Keen 6. A new game was announced in the Keen 5 finale text, but it was never made or tried to make

doomjedi · 06-07-2007, 11:44 AM

Commander Keen (aka the best Apogee game ever) is very much discussed (and loved) here....just check older threads.
And all Keens run well on winXP using DosBox

Shadow Master · 06-08-2007, 08:27 AM

Yeah, or check the Public Commander Keen Forum, which has a link in my signature, and has lots of topics on this subject.

doomjedi · 06-08-2007, 11:53 AM

I tried registering to it twice or more, but it makes an error...help.
I'm sprite artist and ck fan that can really help keen modding

stonestn · 06-12-2007, 10:57 PM

I know they run good in dosbox got all the shareware versions running pretty nicely. What I meant by maybe an update for windows xp or vista is a complete redo of the games for the modern era keep them as side scrollers but update graphics sounds dont turn it into a 3d game though love duke nukem 3d but alot of fun was lost when it changed from a side scroller to a 3d first person shooter still fun but doesnt hold the same appeal as the sidescroller.I think it would be well worth developers time and efforts to bring commander keen back to life hell even make new episodes to. This game is to pc's what mario is to nintendo and sonic is to sega both beloved console series that have been updated many times and are still in production for next gen consoles.

Shadow Master · 06-13-2007, 08:21 AM

Since Id never continued the series, it's obvious they won't do that. They hold the rights. Only a fan-game (like the one I'm designing the engine for) could do it.

Joe Siegler · 06-13-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Master

Apogee (3D Realms) can't release'em as freeware unless ID decides to do so.
And ID Software abandoned the CK series just after releasing Keen 6. A new game was announced in the Keen 5 finale text, but it was never made or tried to make

Be careful how you use the word abandonded. That has certain implications that are both not legal, and not valid, either.

5 of the 7 games are still available for sale (through us). The softdisk game (Keen Dreams) was just a "moral" registration as such, since the shareware game is EXACTLY the same as the paid for version. Keen 6 is still the property of id, and they wouldn't be happy with folks downloading it for free, I'm sure.

Shadow Master · 06-13-2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Be careful how you use the word abandonded. That has certain implications that are both not legal, and not valid, either.

Well, I meant they abandoned its development (7th episode), not its distribution. I'm aware they're still being sold, and that abandonware is illegal.

Frenkel · 06-13-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

5 of the 7 games are still available for sale (through us). The softdisk game (Keen Dreams) was just a "moral" registration as such, since the shareware game is EXACTLY the same as the paid for version. Keen 6 is still the property of id, and they wouldn't be happy with folks downloading it for free, I'm sure.

I like it how you ignore the existance of the Commander Keen game for the Game Boy Color

.

Shadow Master · 06-13-2007, 03:05 PM

It doesn't exist, in fact. It was just a hoax.
Spoiler:

Joe Siegler · 06-22-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenkel

I like it how you ignore the existance of the Commander Keen game for the Game Boy Color

.

It's not one of the "original" Keen games, plus it's not PC. And we never sold it, so yeah. I didn't count it.

But not for the reason you're implying (which is TRUE, mind you).

bigk · 07-24-2007, 02:16 AM

Do you really think Commander keen would sell nowadays?

Think about the games we played nowadays:

Call of duty series
Manhunt
Grand theft auto series
Doom 3
Rainbow six series
Mortal Kombat series
The punisher
God of war series
Gears of war
fear

It appears that people enjoy playing violent games nowadays. I enjoy playing violent games nowadays, I enjoy playing first-person shooter games. But I also like playing the older style games, like Commander keen. (Please keep in mind that I have not played all the games listed above.)

Now if Id software was sitting on the fence trying to decide if they want to release Doom four, or a new Commander keen game. I have a feeling that the would choose Doom 4 for over Commander keen.

Bigk

[I personally would love to see a new Commander keen, with new graphics and everything. But first I got to play the rest of the Commander keen series that I have yet to play.]

Altered Reality · 07-24-2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Now if Id software was sitting on the fence trying to decide if they want to release Doom four, or a new Commander keen game. I have a feeling that the would choose Doom 4 for over Commander keen.

They could commission it to an external studio.

Sharpie · 07-24-2007, 05:27 AM

Even if ID doesnt want to make the game they could at least sell the rights to tom hall because he wants to make a new game really badly.

If they do make a new game i just hope that it is still a side scroller of such to keep that commander keen feel but with new updated graphics and stuff. Like nintendo did with the new super mario bros.

I would hate for a fully flegged 3demensional keen game because it just wouldnt feel right.

Little Conqueror · 07-24-2007, 09:58 AM

I cosplayed as Commander Keen at Otakon in Baltimore this year (and astonishingly, there was another guy who had the same idea), and I probably heard at least thirty people saying, "Man, weren't they supposed to make a Keen 7?" to me.

I wouldn't think that Keen 7 would be a big disappointment saleswise. It's just that id is retaining the rights to the series, and id won't ever make a Keen 7. The only way that a Keen 7 would get made is if somebody was able to buy the rights from them, which I assume would require a huge amount of money that nobody's willing and able to pay.

I suggested starting a fundraising drive to donate money to Tom Hall, but I seriously doubt that even that would put a dent in the money needed to buy the rights.

DOSGuy · 07-24-2007, 09:42 PM

I don't play any of the games that bigk mentioned. I play retro games almost exclusively, with many of my favorites being for the N64. I could blow a whole weekend playing nothing but Super Mario 64 and Blast Corps.

I also love my Nintendo DS, and most of my games are basically "retro" even if they're new (i.e. New Super Mario Bros.). For me to play a modern PC game, it has to require thinking, not reflexes. Think Bejewelled, SimCity 4, Star Wars Empire at War. I play Blind Wars, a DOS game from 1992 (basically Risk, except that you can't tell how many armies your enemies have), almost every day because it's fun to see if my strategic abilities can outweigh the disadvantage of attacking an enemy of unknown strength. I have as much fun playing Secret Agent, Major Stryker, and Raptor as I can with any modern $50+ game. So yeah, Commander Keen is still right up there. I say games should be simple. All you need is a fun concept, and a game sells itself. Like millions of people, I still play chess. It doesn't get much simpler or old school than that.

Other than DOS and my retro consoles, I have a GameCube so that I can play F-Zero GX (another retro remake), and I have no plans to buy a Wii until Super Mario Galaxy comes out (Super Mario 64 2!). If someone makes a Commander Keen game, I'll play it. I know I'm not alone in that, although I fear I may no longer be in the gaming majority. Give a friend an NES or a CD full of DOS games and you might be surprised how many people could get excited about a new Commander Keen game.

Joe Siegler · 07-25-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

They could commission it to an external studio.

Tried that already. It failed. IMO, if Tom Hall is not involved, then it will SUCK.

Whoever decides to do one had better hire Tom if they want the hardcore audience to be on board.

PimPamPet · 07-25-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Tried that already. It failed. IMO, if Tom Hall is not involved, then it will SUCK.

I assume you're talking about the Game Boy game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Whoever decides to do one had better hire Tom if they want the hardcore audience to be on board.

AGREED. I don't get why iD doesn't just give the rights to him. It's not like they're going to do anything with Keen anymore. And I can't imagine they still make a lot of money off the series.

Joe Siegler · 07-26-2007, 12:48 PM

Simple. They hold onto it because should someone else wanted to revive it, they'd get a cut. It's as simple as that.

Shadow Master · 07-30-2007, 10:43 AM

So, a modern remake of the game could be considered a copyright infringement? Or if it's good enough Id Software will give up and... Could it be possible?
Spoiler:

Joe Siegler · 07-30-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

So, a modern remake of the game could be considered a copyright infringement?

Correct.

Little Conqueror · 08-01-2007, 08:23 AM

There are lots of "unofficial" Keen fangames on the net, but don't let that make you think that it's legal: it may just be that id doesn't know about their existence (it's highly unlikely that they "wouldn't care"). The only way someone could make a new Keen game legally is to discuss the matter with id, which is why the series' creator, Tom Hall, hasn't made one. id's not likely to just "let someone have" the rights to the series; they're a business, like any other industry heavy hitter. They won't be making a Commander Keen game themselves - they figure, if someone wants to make a Keen game badly enough (and can afford it - I imagine it requires a dollar amount with a lot of zeroes), they'll pay id to do it.

Shadow Master · 08-01-2007, 10:52 AM

Although it's the company the entity to which the rights belong, there is always a human entity figured in every contract or legal paper, so I guess there must be one or a bunch of human people (NOTE: human) behind the market rights to Commander Keen. Who could they be? There must be a way to have a reasonable dialogue with him/her/them, not matter if the result will be positive or negative.

Phait · 08-06-2007, 08:23 AM

I'd love a Keen compilation for DS, or a DS remake.

Joe Siegler · 08-14-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Conqueror

id's not likely to just "let someone have" the rights to the series; they're a business, like any other industry heavy hitter. They won't be making a Commander Keen game themselves - they figure, if someone wants to make a Keen game badly enough (and can afford it - I imagine it requires a dollar amount with a lot of zeroes), they'll pay id to do it.

That's exactly it. You are more right than you know.

SuperDolly · 09-02-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomjedi

Commander Keen (aka the best Apogee game ever) is very much discussed (and loved) here....just check older threads.
And all Keens run well on winXP using DosBox

Don't exaggerate writing that it's the best Apogee game! Commander Keen is one of my favorite Apogee games but there are more beautiful ones. Another thing: All CK series work perfectly on WinXP! I am the proof.

SuperDolly · 09-02-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phait

I'd love a Keen compilation for DS, or a DS remake.

I prefer not cause it's a PC Game and it gotta be left over! Everybody gotta buy DS for a game? I just have it but I'm talking by people doesn't own a DS

moron · 09-02-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Master

Well, I meant they abandoned its development (7th episode), not its distribution. I'm aware they're still being sold, and that abandonware is illegal.

Well if you read the apogee FAQ it seems there to blame for there not being a keen 7 as they convinced ID to make wolf 3D when they wanted to make keen7 in fact gave them money and made a game for soft disk in order to make it hapen

although if they did make keen 7 it posible there would be no Doom so its hard to say what would be the best in the end

Little Conqueror · 09-06-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

That's exactly it. You are more right than you know.

And while it is extremely disappointing to me, I'll just buy every single game that has Tom Hall's name on it in hopes of contributing to his ability to buy out the rights one day. A pipe dream, I know.

JR Ewing · 09-07-2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Conqueror

There are lots of "unofficial" Keen fangames on the net, but don't let that make you think that it's legal: it may just be that id doesn't know about their existence (it's highly unlikely that they "wouldn't care").

There was an unofficial Keen game being made several years back. I think it was something like "Keen and the Moon Stone". The game was starting to really look good and then id stepped in and brought that project to a screeching halt.

I don't think id Software is in the casual gaming business so I agree that they will likely never revive the Keen series. I think if another Keen game was made, that's the audience it would attract - casual gamers. I myself am a casual gamer so the only games I ever really play are these old DOS games that you can pickup and put back down 10 or 15 minutes later.

speewave · 09-14-2007, 10:36 PM

i heard there was a steam release with dos box for 7 dollars.. and 20 USD gets u the entire collection (1-6) either as a cd or a download!

--

Abandonware would be if:

A: The Company's Defunct (which has sadly happened to great software companies of the late 80s \ early 90s)
B: The Company does not Sell the item as a Download or Mail Delivery (USPS\UPS\ect.)

- These are all not true in this case!
Legal Abandonware is normaly released as freeware on the creators or company's website. sometimes not given support :P such as some games for download here!
--------
Plus id hasn't really made anything Big since doom 3! Plus it's rare that a game company in this day and age will make any 2D Game! i mean. if there was a Commander Keen Remake or revival i would possibly be in high end xbox 360 style graphics!

DOSGuy · 09-15-2007, 12:00 PM

A and B are both untrue. I'm sure you know why, but I want to explain it to everyone to be sure.

A: If a company ceases operations or goes bankrupt, the copyright still belongs to someone. It may transfer to the owner, or may be transferred to a debtor, but the copyright doesn't expire or cease to be enforceable just because the company goes out of business.

B: If a company stops selling a game, that doesn't mean that they have abandoned their rights to the game. In special situations like old video games, which require specific hardware that is no longer sold, you could use the "no harm, no foul" argument to show why the copyright holder has suffered no damages as a result of your distribution of their software (i.e. You need a Super Nintendo to play Super Mario World, but neither the game nor the console is sold any more, therefor Nintendo hasn't lost any revenue because of your illegal ROM website. Nintendo could still force you to stop, but they would have a hard time proving damages. If you had charged any money, though, it would rightfully belong to them; you can't charge money for someone else's property.). The Digital Millennium Copyright Act even accepted an amendment that allows you to make a backup of your obsolete games for obsolete consoles. Unfortunately every PC is backwards compatible all the way back to the original 16-bit version of DOS for the original IBM PC from 1981, so every piece of PC software ever sold can still be played on a modern PC. The platform still hasn't gone obsolete. "No harm, no foul" really falls apart when it comes to PC software because software companies re-release software in anniversary editions and classic compilations all the time. So, long story short, argument B is still illegal, and also potentially injurious, meaning that you could be held financially liable.

My website's definition of abandonware is software that the copyright holder has officially and legally abandoned its rights to the public domain (i.e. Jumpman Lives!, Next Generation Trivia, and Trek Trivia). I strongly recommend against making a distinction between "abandonware" and "legal abandonware". True abandonware is legal, while the other is merely discontinued software that is still protected by copyright, and could be sold in stores again at any time.

Edit: Actually, my Super Mario World example falls apart because Nintendo re-released Super Mario World for Gameboy Advance, and they sell the original version for Wii's Virtual Console. So you can see why even "no harm, no foul" is hard to get away with. When you distribute copyrighted software, you could still be causing financial damage to the copyright holder, or damaging their future profits should they choose to start selling the game in the future. So the lesson is: don't distribute copyrighted software without permission!

Apocalypse Gohan · 10-27-2007, 06:27 AM

What's stopping id software from selling keen 6 as a download?

Joe Siegler · 10-27-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypse Gohan

What's stopping id software from selling keen 6 as a download?

Ask them that. I've asked a few times about us starting up reselling Keen 6 again over the years, and have been ignored.

moron · 10-28-2007, 10:40 AM

would it be somthing that they would put out on steam?
I mean couldint you ask them if you could sell it as a download game even if they got 90% of the proceeds it would be a bit more life for the keen comunity

Joe Siegler · 10-28-2007, 03:24 PM

As I said. Ask id. It's not up to us. We only resell Keens 1-5. id is the company who owns the franchise.

SonnyBonds · 10-28-2007, 03:31 PM

If anyone gets a chance to ask them, please ask them this question as well - why did they only include the CGA version of Keen 6 in the ID Anthology?

Joe Siegler · 10-29-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonnyBonds

If anyone gets a chance to ask them, please ask them this question as well - why did they only include the CGA version of Keen 6 in the ID Anthology?

My gut feeling is it was a mistake. I've never gotten answer out of them on that either.

Don't hold your breath.

WNxJD · 01-14-2008, 09:56 PM

Alright, so here's a question for you 3d Realms guys.

I grew up playing the Commander Keen games. One of my greatest presents for my birthday when I was 8 was getting the Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons series registered, I had played the shareware edition to death, and loved playing the trilogy. A couple years later, my parents bought me Keen 4 and 5 when they were released. Amazing games that I still enjoy to this day. I put a 3.5" drive in my latest PC build so I could still use the old 3.5" floppies to install them

My question is, I got a Wii this past Christmas, and love downloading classic games on the Virtual Console. I know that when Commander Keen was initially developed, before it was created, they presented the Mario clone to PC idea to Nintendo, only to be shot down. What are the chances of getting a Commader Keen port to the Virtual Console? I know they don't have any PC titles yet on there, but it would be a great moneymaker, as the Wii is wildly popular, and I guarantee there are more fans than just myself who own a Wii and would download the titles for sure.

Or is that, yet again, id territory? If so, that makes me said. I'm actually praying that God will do something about it, I love the games so much! Seems that it would take an act of God to change id's heart, after reading this thread.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who treasured this game by the way.

07-26-2007, 12:48 PM	#20
Joe Siegler 3D Realms Staff	Re: Commander Keen series Simple. They hold onto it because should someone else wanted to revive it, they'd get a cut. It's as simple as that. __________________ Apogee / 3D Realms Employee: Dec 14, 1992 - May 22, 2009, Oct 23, 2014 - current "Lifting up the Cross to the waiting lost" - Petra \| John 3:16

10-28-2007, 03:24 PM	#37
Joe Siegler 3D Realms Staff	Re: Commander Keen series As I said. Ask id. It's not up to us. We only resell Keens 1-5. id is the company who owns the franchise. __________________ Apogee / 3D Realms Employee: Dec 14, 1992 - May 22, 2009, Oct 23, 2014 - current "Lifting up the Cross to the waiting lost" - Petra \| John 3:16

06-06-2007, 11:13 AM	#1
stonestn	Commander Keen series Surprised i havent seen anything posted reguarding the commander Keen series. I remember playing all of them including keen dream (the lost episode) made by softdisk back when I was 17 been along time and of course dont have any of the disks to bad I couldnt forsee the future and classics coming back through the use of emulators or I would have held on to them all this time. I was wondering maybe Im the odd tool in the tool shed since noone is really discussing Commander keen apgoee episodes 1 - 6. But any plans in the future (hopefully) of rereleasing the keen series reworked somewhat so that xp and vista can play them or (long shot) having them in line for freeware besides the duke nukem orginals before the 3d version the side scrolling 1 and 2 this was in my opinion the best side scrolling series that apogee ever had released Thanks for taking the time to read this post Stones

06-07-2007, 08:48 AM	#2
Shadow Master	Re: Commander Keen series Apogee (3D Realms) can't release'em as freeware unless ID decides to do so. And ID Software abandoned the CK series just after releasing Keen 6. A new game was announced in the Keen 5 finale text, but it was never made or tried to make __________________ You're master of no shadows! -- Steve Duke Nukem Forever! [My website \| Public Commander Keen Forum \| The Commander Keen Wiki]

06-07-2007, 11:44 AM	#3
doomjedi	Re: Commander Keen series Commander Keen (aka the best Apogee game ever) is very much discussed (and loved) here....just check older threads. And all Keens run well on winXP using DosBox __________________ If it moves - it's a frag, gib it!

06-08-2007, 08:27 AM	#4
Shadow Master	Re: Commander Keen series Yeah, or check the Public Commander Keen Forum, which has a link in my signature, and has lots of topics on this subject. __________________ You're master of no shadows! -- Steve Duke Nukem Forever! [My website \| Public Commander Keen Forum \| The Commander Keen Wiki]

06-08-2007, 11:53 AM	#5
doomjedi	Re: Commander Keen series I tried registering to it twice or more, but it makes an error...help. I'm sprite artist and ck fan that can really help keen modding __________________ If it moves - it's a frag, gib it!

06-12-2007, 10:57 PM	#6
stonestn	Re: Commander Keen series I know they run good in dosbox got all the shareware versions running pretty nicely. What I meant by maybe an update for windows xp or vista is a complete redo of the games for the modern era keep them as side scrollers but update graphics sounds dont turn it into a 3d game though love duke nukem 3d but alot of fun was lost when it changed from a side scroller to a 3d first person shooter still fun but doesnt hold the same appeal as the sidescroller.I think it would be well worth developers time and efforts to bring commander keen back to life hell even make new episodes to. This game is to pc's what mario is to nintendo and sonic is to sega both beloved console series that have been updated many times and are still in production for next gen consoles.

06-13-2007, 08:21 AM	#7
Shadow Master	Re: Commander Keen series Since Id never continued the series, it's obvious they won't do that. They hold the rights. Only a fan-game (like the one I'm designing the engine for) could do it. __________________ You're master of no shadows! -- Steve Duke Nukem Forever! [My website \| Public Commander Keen Forum \| The Commander Keen Wiki]

06-13-2007, 03:05 PM	#11
Shadow Master	Re: Commander Keen series It doesn't exist, in fact. It was just a hoax. Spoiler: I know about its existence. I just can't assume the truth about it. __________________ You're master of no shadows! -- Steve Duke Nukem Forever! [My website \| Public Commander Keen Forum \| The Commander Keen Wiki] Last edited by Shadow Master; 06-13-2007 at 03:55 PM.

07-24-2007, 02:16 AM	#13
bigk	Re: Commander Keen series Do you really think Commander keen would sell nowadays? Think about the games we played nowadays: Call of duty series Manhunt Grand theft auto series Doom 3 Rainbow six series Mortal Kombat series The punisher God of war series Gears of war fear It appears that people enjoy playing violent games nowadays. I enjoy playing violent games nowadays, I enjoy playing first-person shooter games. But I also like playing the older style games, like Commander keen. (Please keep in mind that I have not played all the games listed above.) Now if Id software was sitting on the fence trying to decide if they want to release Doom four, or a new Commander keen game. I have a feeling that the would choose Doom 4 for over Commander keen. Bigk [I personally would love to see a new Commander keen, with new graphics and everything. But first I got to play the rest of the Commander keen series that I have yet to play.] __________________ I enjoy getting private messages! Please feel free to send me a private message at any time. Visit my web site for cool videos: http://www.freewebs.com/bigk777

07-24-2007, 05:27 AM	#15
Sharpie	Re: Commander Keen series Even if ID doesnt want to make the game they could at least sell the rights to tom hall because he wants to make a new game really badly. If they do make a new game i just hope that it is still a side scroller of such to keep that commander keen feel but with new updated graphics and stuff. Like nintendo did with the new super mario bros. I would hate for a fully flegged 3demensional keen game because it just wouldnt feel right. __________________ 360 gamertag: sharpie92 DNF on 360 please http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFct6lg0Vmo <<<< Watch for a laugh

07-24-2007, 09:58 AM	#16
Little Conqueror	Re: Commander Keen series I cosplayed as Commander Keen at Otakon in Baltimore this year (and astonishingly, there was another guy who had the same idea), and I probably heard at least thirty people saying, "Man, weren't they supposed to make a Keen 7?" to me. I wouldn't think that Keen 7 would be a big disappointment saleswise. It's just that id is retaining the rights to the series, and id won't ever make a Keen 7. The only way that a Keen 7 would get made is if somebody was able to buy the rights from them, which I assume would require a huge amount of money that nobody's willing and able to pay. I suggested starting a fundraising drive to donate money to Tom Hall, but I seriously doubt that even that would put a dent in the money needed to buy the rights. __________________ If wishes were fishes, we'd smell like ladies' underwear. "If you join the good fight, you get 72 domain names when you die." -- Wamplet

07-24-2007, 09:42 PM	#17
DOSGuy	Re: Commander Keen series I don't play any of the games that bigk mentioned. I play retro games almost exclusively, with many of my favorites being for the N64. I could blow a whole weekend playing nothing but Super Mario 64 and Blast Corps. I also love my Nintendo DS, and most of my games are basically "retro" even if they're new (i.e. New Super Mario Bros.). For me to play a modern PC game, it has to require thinking, not reflexes. Think Bejewelled, SimCity 4, Star Wars Empire at War. I play Blind Wars, a DOS game from 1992 (basically Risk, except that you can't tell how many armies your enemies have), almost every day because it's fun to see if my strategic abilities can outweigh the disadvantage of attacking an enemy of unknown strength. I have as much fun playing Secret Agent, Major Stryker, and Raptor as I can with any modern $50+ game. So yeah, Commander Keen is still right up there. I say games should be simple. All you need is a fun concept, and a game sells itself. Like millions of people, I still play chess. It doesn't get much simpler or old school than that. Other than DOS and my retro consoles, I have a GameCube so that I can play F-Zero GX (another retro remake), and I have no plans to buy a Wii until Super Mario Galaxy comes out (Super Mario 64 2!). If someone makes a Commander Keen game, I'll play it. I know I'm not alone in that, although I fear I may no longer be in the gaming majority. Give a friend an NES or a CD full of DOS games and you might be surprised how many people could get excited about a new Commander Keen game. __________________ "Today entirely the maniac there is no excuse with the article." Get free DOS games at www.classicdosgames.com

07-30-2007, 10:43 AM	#21
Shadow Master	Re: Commander Keen series So, a modern remake of the game could be considered a copyright infringement? Or if it's good enough Id Software will give up and... Could it be possible? Spoiler: I know I'm just dreaming. Just tell me if it could become something more than a mere dream. __________________ You're master of no shadows! -- Steve Duke Nukem Forever! [My website \| Public Commander Keen Forum \| The Commander Keen Wiki]

08-01-2007, 08:23 AM	#23
Little Conqueror	Re: Commander Keen series There are lots of "unofficial" Keen fangames on the net, but don't let that make you think that it's legal: it may just be that id doesn't know about their existence (it's highly unlikely that they "wouldn't care"). The only way someone could make a new Keen game legally is to discuss the matter with id, which is why the series' creator, Tom Hall, hasn't made one. id's not likely to just "let someone have" the rights to the series; they're a business, like any other industry heavy hitter. They won't be making a Commander Keen game themselves - they figure, if someone wants to make a Keen game badly enough (and can afford it - I imagine it requires a dollar amount with a lot of zeroes), they'll pay id to do it. __________________ If wishes were fishes, we'd smell like ladies' underwear. "If you join the good fight, you get 72 domain names when you die." -- Wamplet

08-01-2007, 10:52 AM	#24
Shadow Master	Re: Commander Keen series Although it's the company the entity to which the rights belong, there is always a human entity figured in every contract or legal paper, so I guess there must be one or a bunch of human people (NOTE: human) behind the market rights to Commander Keen. Who could they be? There must be a way to have a reasonable dialogue with him/her/them, not matter if the result will be positive or negative. __________________ You're master of no shadows! -- Steve Duke Nukem Forever! [My website \| Public Commander Keen Forum \| The Commander Keen Wiki]

08-06-2007, 08:23 AM	#25
Phait	Re: Commander Keen series I'd love a Keen compilation for DS, or a DS remake. __________________ Music: http://www.oquilluksound.com Album: http://machinefaultred.blogspot.com Album Calendar Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/oquilluksound "but I promise you this, I'll always look out for you, that's what I do" -Coldplay

09-14-2007, 10:36 PM	#32
speewave	Re: Commander Keen series i heard there was a steam release with dos box for 7 dollars.. and 20 USD gets u the entire collection (1-6) either as a cd or a download! -- Abandonware would be if: A: The Company's Defunct (which has sadly happened to great software companies of the late 80s \ early 90s) B: The Company does not Sell the item as a Download or Mail Delivery (USPS\UPS\ect.) - These are all not true in this case! Legal Abandonware is normaly released as freeware on the creators or company's website. sometimes not given support :P such as some games for download here! -------- Plus id hasn't really made anything Big since doom 3! Plus it's rare that a game company in this day and age will make any 2D Game! i mean. if there was a Commander Keen Remake or revival i would possibly be in high end xbox 360 style graphics!

09-15-2007, 12:00 PM	#33
DOSGuy	Re: Commander Keen series A and B are both untrue. I'm sure you know why, but I want to explain it to everyone to be sure. A: If a company ceases operations or goes bankrupt, the copyright still belongs to someone. It may transfer to the owner, or may be transferred to a debtor, but the copyright doesn't expire or cease to be enforceable just because the company goes out of business. B: If a company stops selling a game, that doesn't mean that they have abandoned their rights to the game. In special situations like old video games, which require specific hardware that is no longer sold, you could use the "no harm, no foul" argument to show why the copyright holder has suffered no damages as a result of your distribution of their software (i.e. You need a Super Nintendo to play Super Mario World, but neither the game nor the console is sold any more, therefor Nintendo hasn't lost any revenue because of your illegal ROM website. Nintendo could still force you to stop, but they would have a hard time proving damages. If you had charged any money, though, it would rightfully belong to them; you can't charge money for someone else's property.). The Digital Millennium Copyright Act even accepted an amendment that allows you to make a backup of your obsolete games for obsolete consoles. Unfortunately every PC is backwards compatible all the way back to the original 16-bit version of DOS for the original IBM PC from 1981, so every piece of PC software ever sold can still be played on a modern PC. The platform still hasn't gone obsolete. "No harm, no foul" really falls apart when it comes to PC software because software companies re-release software in anniversary editions and classic compilations all the time. So, long story short, argument B is still illegal, and also potentially injurious, meaning that you could be held financially liable. My website's definition of abandonware is software that the copyright holder has officially and legally abandoned its rights to the public domain (i.e. Jumpman Lives!, Next Generation Trivia, and Trek Trivia). I strongly recommend against making a distinction between "abandonware" and "legal abandonware". True abandonware is legal, while the other is merely discontinued software that is still protected by copyright, and could be sold in stores again at any time. Edit: Actually, my Super Mario World example falls apart because Nintendo re-released Super Mario World for Gameboy Advance, and they sell the original version for Wii's Virtual Console. So you can see why even "no harm, no foul" is hard to get away with. When you distribute copyrighted software, you could still be causing financial damage to the copyright holder, or damaging their future profits should they choose to start selling the game in the future. So the lesson is: don't distribute copyrighted software without permission! __________________ "Today entirely the maniac there is no excuse with the article." Get free DOS games at www.classicdosgames.com Last edited by DOSGuy; 09-15-2007 at 12:12 PM.

10-27-2007, 06:27 AM	#34
Apocalypse Gohan	Re: Commander Keen series ? keen 6 What's stopping id software from selling keen 6 as a download?

10-28-2007, 10:40 AM	#36
moron	Re: Commander Keen series would it be somthing that they would put out on steam? I mean couldint you ask them if you could sell it as a download game even if they got 90% of the proceeds it would be a bit more life for the keen comunity

10-28-2007, 03:31 PM	#38
SonnyBonds	Re: Commander Keen series If anyone gets a chance to ask them, please ask them this question as well - why did they only include the CGA version of Keen 6 in the ID Anthology?

01-14-2008, 09:56 PM	#40
WNxJD	Re: Commander Keen series Alright, so here's a question for you 3d Realms guys. I grew up playing the Commander Keen games. One of my greatest presents for my birthday when I was 8 was getting the Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons series registered, I had played the shareware edition to death, and loved playing the trilogy. A couple years later, my parents bought me Keen 4 and 5 when they were released. Amazing games that I still enjoy to this day. I put a 3.5" drive in my latest PC build so I could still use the old 3.5" floppies to install them My question is, I got a Wii this past Christmas, and love downloading classic games on the Virtual Console. I know that when Commander Keen was initially developed, before it was created, they presented the Mario clone to PC idea to Nintendo, only to be shot down. What are the chances of getting a Commader Keen port to the Virtual Console? I know they don't have any PC titles yet on there, but it would be a great moneymaker, as the Wii is wildly popular, and I guarantee there are more fans than just myself who own a Wii and would download the titles for sure. Or is that, yet again, id territory? If so, that makes me said. I'm actually praying that God will do something about it, I love the games so much! Seems that it would take an act of God to change id's heart, after reading this thread. Glad to see I'm not the only one who treasured this game by the way.