Duke Nukem: WMD

[Hellbound]

yeah, I've found that liztroop body blocking too.

[KillerBudgie]

How do you install the beta? When I try to launch it, I keep getting a bunch of errors when it starts. What am I doing wrong?

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by KillerBudgie

How do you install the beta? When I try to launch it, I keep getting a bunch of errors when it starts. What am I doing wrong?

Are you trying to use those cons that I posted? That's only a small part of the beta. I gave the beta testers a link to the full version.

[DeeperThought]

Beta testers: The attached cons fix some bugs (all the ones I found should be fixed except perhaps the liztroop body blocking one, I'm not sure about that yet).

I could use some input on balance issues. I don't want:

weapon modes or abilities that there is no reason to ever use
the player always having plenty of ammo
some upgrades being too cheap or too expensive

wmd.rar

[MagNet]

I had great fun playing the beta but it's really tough for me
Also, I think there's a little problem with the higher falldamage and lower health at the start of hollywood holocaust

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by MagNet

I had great fun playing the beta but it's really tough for me
Also, I think there's a little problem with the higher falldamage and lower health at the start of hollywood holocaust

Yeah, you have to do the first leg upgrade and a few health upgrades before you drop down. That shouldn't be a problem, though, since you start the game with 50 skill points.

As for the difficulty, it will seem harder than the normal game until you get used to the new weapon modes and abilities. But once you get the hang of it, it may seem easier. Remember, Duke 3D does come with several difficulty levels. I know, most of us are used to just playing on "COME GET SOME" all the time, but the other ones may be worth trying.

[MagNet]

Ey, found a bug: The pipebomb is reflected by the shield. Otherwise it plays damn well, good job.

EDIT: What the hell, I can't shrink the battlelord

[C. M. Dratz]

Originally Posted by C. M. Dratz

Maybe pressing and releasing the sidekick could be a plain higher damage knockback kick, whereas holding the kick would be a vampire sidekick?

On the higher damage kick, maybe the knockback distance could be longer than the vampire kick distance, and additional damage (even gibs if the kick gets powerful enough) in the knockback sidekick would happen when a foe hits a wall.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by C. M. Dratz

On the higher damage kick, maybe the knockback distance could be longer than the vampire kick distance, and additional damage (even gibs if the kick gets powerful enough) in the knockback sidekick would happen when a foe hits a wall.

I like the damage on wall hitting idea, but I'd have to think about how to code it. As for there being two different versions of the kick...I'd like to avoid making the controls more complicated. There are lots of moves already.

Right now I'm considering adding stamina. It would not get used up by running, but it would be drained by dodge moves, the second jump of the double-jump, and the vampire kick.

I'm also trying to figure out how to force the player to use a variety of different attacks. The main culprit here is that mappers tend to put in too much ammo. Playing on "COME GET SOME" with less than the normal damage, and even with reduced ammo pick up amounts, I still find that I have way more ammo than I need and I never have to use kicking or pipebombs or tripbombs. It is also partly due to the fact that I've made the pistol much more useful (the alt-mode in particular). And, of course, my ammo coins. I don't want to go through all the maps and remove ammo (plus I really can't do that with episodes 1-5), so I need a different solution.

Some options for dealing with excessive ammo:

1. Reduce maximum ammo amounts.
2. Give the player the option of trading ammo for nuke coins.
3. Encumbrance: Slow the player down in proportion to the amount carried.
4. Nerf the ammo coins so that they don't add as many special shots, or make them convert regular ammo into special instead of just adding special.

Thoughts?

[KillerBudgie]

Those ideas of yours sound pretty good. I always like a bit of challenge these days!

How about the idea of trading Ammo Coins for Soul Coins? But then again, it would be a bit too easy.

Another would probably to make the alternate firing mode use up more ammo than the normal firing mode.

[DeeperThought]

Beta testers: These cons add a stamina bar, and nerf the ammo coins a bit. You probably won't notice the limited stamina unless you do a lot of vampire kicks.

wmd.rar

KB: Most of the alt-fire modes already use extra ammo.

[C. M. Dratz]

Is there a way to reduce the ammo in a pickup box? 3 RPGs in a box instead of 5, et cetera?
Also, yes, you are right about there already being so many attacks. Adding the wall damage to the vamp kick would add some strategy if it is not too time consuming to code.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by C. M. Dratz

Is there a way to reduce the ammo in a pickup box? 3 RPGs in a box instead of 5, et cetera?
Also, yes, you are right about there already being so many attacks. Adding the wall damage to the vamp kick would add some strategy if it is not too time consuming to code.

Yes, that's what I meant when I said I was using reduced ammo pickup amounts. Those values in user.con can easily be changed.

To do the wall damage thing, I think I would need to add a per-actor var which gets set when the monster is kicked and then gets unset when it lands or hits a wall. If the var is set, and the xy velocity of the monster drops to near zero and the monster isn't on the ground, the monster would take damage. Also, it would be good if you could knock one monster into another for extra damage (the flying monster could damage sprites that it gets knocked into). This would apply to both kick knockback and shotgun knockback. I would also like the monsters to break objects that they collide with, especially windows. It would be fun to kick a pigcop or shoot it with the shotgun and watch it fly backwards through a plate glass window.

[C. M. Dratz]

That would rock.

[Dopefish7590]

what about making an enemy if it dies after being vampire kicked into a wall would be plastered against the wall and be wall aligned?

that would also rule

[DeeperThought]

Beta testers: Here are the latest CON updates

wmd.rar

I attempted some bug fixes (I'm not sure how successful I was). I also changed the order of a couple of maps in Retribution episode. I had a couple of crashes in Another Timeless Night (timeless.map). The log just said "Fatal Signal caught: SIGSEGV. Bailing out." and I wasn't able to figure out what triggered it. I'm also getting some "DoActor(): invalid target sprite (-1) 4678 3920" because the evil dukes are trying to set stuff on actor -1, but I've checked over the code and I haven't found anywhere that could happen.

[C. M. Dratz]

Originally Posted by Dopefish7590

what about making an enemy if it dies after being vampire kicked into a wall would be plastered against the wall and be wall aligned?

that would also rule

That's hilarious!

[DeeperThought]

Beta testers: Is anyone else having severe performance issues with timeless.map? Try loading it up on "DAMN I'M GOOD" as a user map and see what happens. When I do it, the game practically comes to a stop each time I fire the railgun.

EDIT:

defineprojectile RAILSLUG PROJ_TNUM 500

Yeah, uh, having it spawn 500 trail actors every time it shoots is not a good thing...I think that map just has a lot of stuff in it already, and that was pushing it over the edge.

[Dopefish7590]

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

Beta testers: Is anyone else having severe performance issues with timeless.map? Try loading it up on "DAMN I'M GOOD" as a user map and see what happens. When I do it, the game practically comes to a stop each time I fire the railgun.

lol, that happens to me with the duke nuke


----------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

I attempted some bug fixes (I'm not sure how successful I was). I also changed the order of a couple of maps in Retribution episode. I had a couple of crashes in Another Timeless Night (timeless.map). The log just said "Fatal Signal caught: SIGSEGV. Bailing out." and I wasn't able to figure out what triggered it. I'm also getting some "DoActor(): invalid target sprite (-1) 4678 3920" because the evil dukes are trying to set stuff on actor -1, but I've checked over the code and I haven't found anywhere that could happen.

Originally Posted by Mikko sandt

I'm getting a crash and the following message (according to eduke32.txt) whenever I try to play "my" new usermap (it takes a few seconds before the level crashes):
Fatal Signal caught: SIGSEGV. Bailing out.

This didn't start to happen until I added monsters and sounds.

I also checked the level in JFDuke and it worked fine.

conclusion: its eduke32 not your mod

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Dopefish7590

conclusion: its eduke32 not your mod

That's a generic crash error. EDuke32 shouldn't be crashing, but there may something in the mod that is triggering the crash which I could avoid doing.

[Hellbound]

About stamina - some time ago I coded stamina for Prison TC and it's pretty easy to code the bar for it, that would be cool for WMD.

Sorry I'm not betatesting for some time, but I have a shitload of work for "Szczerbiec" game... ****, I'm tired.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Hellbound

About stamina - some time ago I coded stamina for Prison TC and it's pretty easy to code the bar for it, that would be cool for WMD.

It already has a bar

[Dopefish7590]

I noticed while playing millitarty maddness the coin indicator indicated that there was a coin in the northern area of the map and the arrow kept pointing out. I made it to a corner that the coin was suppost to be at and it still siad it was far away... like through a wall... i typed in dnshowmap and it didnt show any more map in that direction... do you know what couldve caused this?

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Dopefish7590

I noticed while playing millitarty maddness the coin indicator indicated that there was a coin in the northern area of the map and the arrow kept pointing out. I made it to a corner that the coin was suppost to be at and it still siad it was far away... like through a wall... i typed in dnshowmap and it didnt show any more map in that direction... do you know what couldve caused this?

The arrow is infallible. If it says there is a coin in that direction, then there is a coin in that direction. However, sometimes coins end up in strange places. I don't recall if that map has any underwater sectors, but if coins end up underwater you can get a very misleading reading, because the underwater sector can be very far away from and/or in a different direction from the pool of water as seen from above. Remember, when you go into water in Duke 3D, you are actually teleporting to a different part of the map.

EDIT: That map doesn't have any underwater sectors, but it does have a special area used solely for making the computer terminal screens. If a coin somehow ended up in there, it would be impossible to reach.

[Mikko Sandt]

I haven't downloaded any new versions since last fall but have you done something about those Battlelords being strong against explosive weapons? I was just testing my own map with WMD and remembered that Devastator is oddly ineffective against Battlelords.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Mikko Sandt

I haven't downloaded any new versions since last fall but have you done something about those Battlelords being strong against explosive weapons? I was just testing my own map with WMD and remembered that Devastator is oddly ineffective against Battlelords.

I don't recall ever having coded Battlelords to be less vulnerable against explosives. I've changed a lot of stuff recently, though, so there's a good chance that whatever it is you're remembering is different now.

Magnet: The shrinker does work on Battlelords, but it won't shrink them unless their health has dropped below 300.

[DeeperThought]

Beta testers: I've uploaded a new version. To get it, use the link I sent you in a PM (do not use the cons that I've posted in this thread).

There is a new enemy. It will start spawning after you get a few thousand points, or you can spawn it in the console with "spawn ROBOMAN". This version also fixes a few bugs and makes some minor adjustments.

[Odin]

Wait, I didn't get a PM. Did you send a new PM or did you just recycle the link?

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Odin

Wait, I didn't get a PM. Did you send a new PM or did you just recycle the link?

I recycled. It's the same link as before.

[Odin]

Played with the Roboman, two things I noticed:

1. One of the frames (I think walking) has some pink on the edges that's not exactly #FF00FF. You might want to clean that up.

2. When a Roboman dies and falls from a distance, it gives off a blood splatter like a lizard trooper falling. You might want to change that to metal scraps or something.

Also I think the stamina bar should be take longer to recharge, and it should take less for it to deplete fully. That way you have to worry about it a bit more. Also, I haven't tried it, but health items should replenish stamina by a bit, and steroids should replenish it fully (actions that use stamina don't deplete the stamina bar while on steroids).

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Odin

Played with the Roboman, two things I noticed:

1. One of the frames (I think walking) has some pink on the edges that's not exactly #FF00FF. You might want to clean that up.

2. When a Roboman dies and falls from a distance, it gives off a blood splatter like a lizard trooper falling. You might want to change that to metal scraps or something.

Also I think the stamina bar should be take longer to recharge, and it should take less for it to deplete fully. That way you have to worry about it a bit more. Also, I haven't tried it, but health items should replenish stamina by a bit, and steroids should replenish it fully (actions that use stamina don't deplete the stamina bar while on steroids).

Good suggestions.

IIRC, the frame with the pink edges is part of the robo's powerup sequence, where it spawns the sphere and gains health while flashing. It looks enough to me like a powerup glow that it doesn't bother me. At least, it doesn't bother me enough that I'm inspired to learn how to use EDITART and remove it. I guess I will have to though, if it really bugs people (unless someone is kind enough to edit the tile for me )

I'm not sure what to do with stamina, yet, but the steroid suggestion will definitely be implemented. I'd like to think of a way to make it enhance gameplay without being annoying.

The blood splatter after falling is a hardcoded effect, but I can cause the blood sprites to transform into scrap when they are spawned by the ROBOMAN.

EDIT: Does anyone happen to know which gore tile or tiles are spawned when an enemy falls to the ground after dying in the air?

[Dopefish7590]

Hey DT I played that weird half invisible version of the alien drone with goggles on and with a shotgun on water... I killed it and it kept jumpimg and jumping in its death frame and constantly spawning gibs... here the link to my save game and the eduke32 i used (the version that came with it)

edit: I noticed you can vampre kick through thin walls

[Hellbound]

Originally Posted by Dopefish7590

edit: I noticed you can vampre kick through thin walls

Looks like the new, unknown glitch

[Odin]

I'd like to see a series of levels specifically made for DN:WMD. Doing things like solving dodge climbing puzzles, using the special rounds/alt fire in a unique fashion (for example, using the guided missle for the RPG to hit a cracked wall otherwise unable to hit), etc. I don't expect this in the final version, but it would be neat if a level designer made a "WMD Booster Pack" that had this.

Also, if possible, could you make coins stop bouncing after a while? It's kinda unrealistic to have coins bouncing all over the place as if they possess no form of friction.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Odin

I'd like to see a series of levels specifically made for DN:WMD. Doing things like solving dodge climbing puzzles, using the special rounds/alt fire in a unique fashion (for example, using the guided missle for the RPG to hit a cracked wall otherwise unable to hit), etc. I don't expect this in the final version, but it would be neat if a level designer made a "WMD Booster Pack" that had this.

Also, if possible, could you make coins stop bouncing after a while? It's kinda unrealistic to have coins bouncing all over the place as if they possess no form of friction.

A while ago I had planned to have an episode specifically for the mod, as you describe (and I had some other ideas for WMD effects). At the moment I'm not willing to invest all the time it would take to make the maps myself, since I've never actually made a map of my own and it would take me a lot of time to become proficient enough to build something of high quality. Maybe I'll feel differently in a year or two, after I've done some other stuff. Realistically, an entire episode made for the mod is not going to happen. However, maybe a few small to mid-size maps could be inserted strategically into the user map episode at some point.

The coin bouncing: It is unrealistic, but it makes them easy to spot. This doesn't matter so much for the skill coins, now that there is radar that tracks them, but it applies to the other ones. But maybe that's not such a big deal. I'll tell you what: in the next con update, which I expect to upload either tonight or tomorrow, it'll have realistic bouncing. If everyone likes it better, we'll keep it.

[DeeperThought]

Beta testers:

Here's a CON update for you. This changes the following things:

* The Evil Duke enemies now stick with one weapon that they randomly spawn with, but they also use the Hurricane Kick, much like the Dukebot. Also corrected timing on firing sequences, and added shell casings.

* The Queen minibosses are harder to kill and use a different weapon.

* Steroids give infinite stamina (not that you'd need it)

* Fixed a bug where the Necrobrains (the Octabrains which resurrect monsters) continued to emit their darkness field after the player died, sometimes making it impossible to see anything

* Reduced the number of sprites spawned by the Duke Nuke -- should be less laggy now

* Reduced railgun damage from 140 to 120, because with headshots it was too powerful (plus it can shoot through walls and multiple enemies, but I don't know if anyone has noticed)

* Adjusted lightning gun damage/ammo usage

* Fixed the bouncing jib spawning bug in the treasure guardian NEWBEAST (at least, I think I did)

* Reduced the amount of time it takes to set a Duke Nuke so it is actually one second.

* possibly some other things I don't remember

What I haven't fixed yet:

The ROBOMAN still spawns blood if it falls to the ground after dying, and it still has a pink aura on one frame.

The coins still continue to bounce forever (not exactly a bug, but my first attempt at changing it wasn't satisfactory so I'm leaving it for now).

wmd.rar

EDIT: The attachment from last night had a debugging variable display at the top of the screen that I accidentally left in. The current attachment fixes that and tweaks some of the upgrade costs.

[Dopefish7590]

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

A while ago I had planned to have an episode specifically for the mod, as you describe (and I had some other ideas for WMD effects). At the moment I'm not willing to invest all the time it would take to make the maps myself, since I've never actually made a map of my own and it would take me a lot of time to become proficient enough to build something of high quality.

should I give it a shot?

my dm maps were simply just to test on how i would go about doing some effects and only took 5 minutes each: so i could make FAR better maps than those dm maps if I took the time

[Dopefish7590]

heh i found a bug that a vampire kick can also save youi from death if you kick just before you hit the ground

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Dopefish7590

heh i found a bug that a vampire kick can also save youi from death if you kick just before you hit the ground

Thanks, I'll look into that.

[Blade Nightflame]

It's the same with a well timed TripBomb place, but I really don't want THAT going away.

Anyway, your release date is incredibly teasing me, I REALLY want DNWMD now, I just find it too fun.