The Duke Nukem Experience.

[Hooper]

Try reading GoodStuff's Hooper Vs Scully post.

An Experience. Those are the words that come to mind when I think of Duke Nukem 3D. I remember back around the time the game was released, my brother had mentioned that he watched the demo of a game called Duke Nukem 3D at the home of a friend of mine (he'll be known as Scully). Around the same time another guy I know started talking about the game (he happens to go by the login 'GoodStuff' on these forums), what was being described seemed too far-fetched to be even possible in a first person game so I wrote it off as somewhat of an over-exageration - I was going to take the "wait and see" attitude. It wasn't until some time later when I went over to GoodStuff's place during the summer, that I experienced it first-hand. I was greeting by roaring laughter from the room above and the call to "come on in", walking into the room I saw what quite easily might be the best game ever made. A modem game was taking place - something that was not really done too often around our area before. I'm fairly sure it was Hollywood Holocaust being played, and the diversity of what was going on in the DukeMatch blew me away. I had to play it. Time passed and I learned what truely made a game classic.

Never before and never again have I felt the same adrenaline rush when seeing/playing a game for the first time. While our time has been graced with such greats as Half-Life, Quake, Soldier of Fortune, Doom3, Halo, and others; some have come close - but none have truely captured the greatness of Duke3D. I came upon this realization while playing Duke3D again after 4+ years on JonoF's port. How does a game nearly a decade old compete for entertainment with powerful newcomers and against all odds smash any resistance? Could it be nostalgia? I've been asking myself that sort of question and I've come up with this answer - my mind is not clouded by past memories. Something about Duke3D withstands the test of time - easily.

Accessible. Entertaining. Action-Packed. Stylish. Atmospheric. Design. Flow. All of these words effectively describe the game, but I feel what truely made the game was: level design, audio, graphics & visual effects, gameplay, and humor. I'll go into these with a bit more detail.

I'm starting with Level Design because I think this is where Duke3D shines above all odds over other games. Fans of realism may be scratching their heads now, but in my opinion 'realistic' and 'better' are not one and the same. The level design, although simple, was genious. The levels seemed to be designed on a simple philosophy of "What does (Place A) need in it to feel like (Place A)?". I'll use Hollywood Holocaust as an example; stop and think of the place known as a "Movie Theater" - what are the first things that came into your mind that a movie theater always has? Here's mine: Ticket Booth, Entrance, Snack Bar, Bathroom, Seating & Screen, Projector Room, and often an Arcade. Notice something? Those are all the most noticeable parts of Hollywood Holocaust. It didn't and still doesn't matter if they are realisticly designed to look like a real movie theater, it's the same as when you're dreaming, it may not look like a real place but you know what type of place you're in by the theme of the dream.

There were also little design choices that made levels greater than the would have been otherwise. The most important in my opinion was levels that weren't extremely huge, they were perfectly suited for quick playing and even the ability to play DM in single player levels. There were secrets that gave a thrill of actually finding them, even though they made no realistic sense. Certain rooms were created as a play/joke on movies, other games, or simply making fun of a current trend, often accompanied by a classic Duke one-liner. Blowing away the standard Room-Stair-Door-Elevator pattern of previous games, and even some modern games, Duke3D had other ways of getting in and out of places; vents, carefully placed crates to jump in windows (something you can't do in newer games for some reason - and window jumping was fun damn it) or on ledges, cracked walls that you can blow through, conveyer belt passages, flowing water (very rarely seen in modern games), rubble, and teleporters come to mind. There were two types of "Preview Areas", the first type allowed you to see an area you would get to later in the level (the bridge in Hollywood Holocaust), and the second would allow you to see into the next/previous level (Raw Meat - Bank Roll).

Minor additions to the levels added to immersion. The "Quake-Effect" made a few appearances during the game, an example of this was when you walked into the hallway to the projector in HH - the floor would crack and split. The bathrooms were a Duke Nukem staple that don't require any explaining,, but the mirrors that were often in them were beyond anything from previous games. There were signs and posters on the walls around the map in just the right places that needed them, without falling victim to the "User-Map-Sprite-Fest-for-the-Heck-of-it" Syndrome. TVs were often used in the game to display various animations, among them was the OJ Simpson Chase (I think) on the TV in the bar in Red Light District. Security cameras placed around the map allowed for a 'sneak-peak' at what was coming later in the level, sometimes even giving a hint to the location of secret areas. The rising water effect was a dynamic and unique feature for it's time, I'm not sure if it's used to much in moderm FPS games or not. To end the topic of level design, I have to say that Duke3D's maps had a feeling to them that can only be described as "Freedom in Enclosed Spaces", even though you were trapped in a relatively small map it felt like you were free to go anywhere.

Gameplay. Duke3D had it. Duke3D excelled in it. The arcade-style Run&Gun gameplay was the core aspect of what made the game fun. I don't care about tactical shooting, Duke doesn't work with squad-mates, vehicles are not a requirement in FPS games, and I certainly don't care about realism. That's the popular trend these days in FPS games, and while it is good sometimes, to tell you all the truth - it's getting stale. It seems as if every FPS game wants to be a "Me Too!" tactical shooter with Military/SWAT/Marine themes. In the process of struggling to acheive realism games have lost the adrenaline rush, the edge, or the "Rage" as GoodStuff so fittingly put it. Without worrying about realism, the weapon and item placement in Duke3D is set up for playability, it gives a purpose to be searching for those secrets and jumping on ledges otherwise useless. Playing Jonof's port reminded me that I actually like the old keycard gameplay of old, it causes the level to progress in a three stage process that the creator designs, allowing the feeling of progression in an environment that is relatively small and enclosed - this is part of what makes the single player maps so accessible as dukematch maps. Selectable episodes are a relic of the past that I would like revived; episodes allow the game to progress similar to a movie trilogy, where each episode has its own distinct feel.

Small gameplay additions combined to make the package complete. Arcade-style selectable items like the Medkit, Jetpack, 'Roids, Holoduke, and NightVision made the gameplay more dynamic, a feature also present in Raven Software's Hexen series. Duke3D had a great amount of interactivity for its time, like light switches, phones, sockets, the pool table, and security cameras. It had smashable objects like glass, toilets, stray bottles and trash cans; the blastable walls were a unique Duke3D feature I'd like to see again, maybe not to the extent of Red Faction but in there. A fire-fight in Duke3D was sure to cause something to break in the level, caught in the furious crossfire. The simple but clever multi-switched puzzles were long enough to take a break from the action but not so long as to slow the pace down too much. Some enemies had secondary attack stances that added some variety to the combat, such as the pig-cop laying down with the shotgun. Another thing I noticed about older games compared to newer ones is that it was much more satisfying to kill an enemy in classic games than newer ones, I think this has to do with comparing well done death animations and audio sounds to an enemy going instantly limp with ragdoll physics and flopping around. Is it possible to somehow lock in some death animations while still keeping the ragdoll physics active? This would mean that the death animation is the primary force at work but the ragdoll physics add to it for impact.

An important aspect about the gameplay in Duke3D was the speed of movement and the height of jumps. None of these were close to realistic but they allowed for some adrenaline pumping and fast paced action. This type of feature is what allowed me to walk backwards through a level and jump on crates to a higher level without actually looking at them (as GoodStuff mentioned in his post) - this can't be done in newer games with the realistic jump and movement speeds.

Boss Monsters. Enough said.

The Audio & Visual Effects in Duke3D played more of a supporting role, but the they were no less important to the overall package. The environmental audio is the one aspect of the game where I think realism actually is better, because the better the sound the better the atmosphere. Duke3D was complete with dripping water, planes flying overhead, screaming, electricity, thunder, growling enemies, locational music, and much more. The level music added to the style of the game and I'm sad to hear that DNF won't be having this feature. If it did I would rather strictly Duke3D style music, that means no extreme punk heavy-metal, nothing dark, and abolutely no grunting and roaring. The visuals in the game in my opinion still stand the test of time, they look good even without hi-res textures, and I think this is solely because of style. Other neat visual effects included the clever placement and use of standing flames, blood splatters on walls and pools on floors (which could cause footprints - useful in DM), rats and other animals scurrying away, and bits of metal flying off of things with each shot.

One thing I noticed again the other day was that the pig-cop eyes glow red, even in the darkest room you can still see two red dots per pig-cop. Would it be possible to apply this "Eye-Glow" effect to the pig-cops in DNF? This time going far enough to have the eyes as a small light-source, enough to light up some of the snout and tusks on the face. The octobrains also have red eyes so they could also use the glow effect.

A note about the game's style. Duke3D's sector shading, while archaic by today's standards, allowed for some really stylized and atmospheric levels if done correctly. This was because of the strong contrasts between light and dark when darkening a shadow caused by light striking the wall. It gave off somewhat of comic book feel, or to describe it another way, think of those old 1930's based detective movies (black & white) where the only things lit up was what was under the light from the street lamps, everything else was really dark. If there is any way to emulate this effect in current engines it would add a lot to atmosphere.

Other things that I liked about the game and would like to see also in DNF are secret levels, Co-op, the "End of Level" object, and even the scoreboard after completing a level. There should be subtle and humorous Duke3D style inuendo, not blatant and rediculous exploitation, if overdone this is a potential game ruiner at its greatest. The game should flow, this means the player is in control at all times - no cutscenes.

Well, that's about all I can think of at the moment, I'm sure I will have more to add later.

P.S. -- Just a warning to all fellow DNF followers out there, I've read some of your hopes and ideas about what could be in the game when it's finally released, and I have to tell you that some of you are setting yourselves up for a disappointment. I don't know if people are fooling around or what but some of the ideas are so far fetched it reminds me of what happens with every other big title released. I remember one ultra-hyped guy on a Doom3 forum (before its release) talking about how he envisioned that the game would be. His fantasy scenario consisted of the Doom Guy stuck in a large hall with a Hell Knight, he imagined shooting at the enemy with his shotgun as the it crashed toward him and grabbed the Doom Guy in its hand. He somehow thought he was going to be able to shoot the Hell Knight while being flailed around wildly in the air, pumping shotgun blasts in its chest. Here's where it gets nuts though, running out of ammo he was to take out a grenade and stuff it in the mouth of the demon, while simultaneously propping his feet on its chest to propell himself backward into the air. He was supposed to be able to watch the demon explode before his feet even touched the ground. Guess whether or not he was disappointed with Doom3. The problem with hyping up a game too much is that little ideas start trickling in and soon they become a factual part of what is supposed to be in the game, and when the game is released and those features are not in the game people say the developer's lied. Too many people board the Hype Train and take the one way trip from Speculation Station to Reality City - which ulitimately leads to Letdown Town. 3DR doesn't release screenshots because they don't want hype, but it looks like hype came knocking on the door anyway. I say this; resist it, stay calm, stop, look around, assess the situation - then resume anticipating DNF.

[Dreams]

best post here in a while

You really like Duke3D don't you, Hooper? Well, I don't blame you. I wrote a review for it on www.pcgamereview.com where I mention some of my first time experiences with the game like you just mentioned. Follow this link if you want to read it:

http://www.pcgamereview.com/Action/3...9_1460crx.aspx

In answer to your PS, I don't get caught up in unrealistic expectations. When I suggest something that DNF should have I always try to be fairly realistic. And when I read posts that contain suggestions that will probably have no chance at being implemented in the game I find them humerous, and some of them deliberately humerous at that.

PS. Oh, and if you do or already have had a squiz at my review just note that my old computer has stopped working. But I've been able to get Duke3D working on the current one I'm using now. So, long live Duke!

Agreeing with you fully on it all, man.

I still remember my first experience. Basically I said: what can Duke3D possibly do with 2D graphics engine? Look at Quake, man!

But we just got our first internet connection, and so from this very site I downloaded the shareware version, deciding to give it a chance. Here's my basic reaction:

Nuke sign, explosion -- hmm.

"Let's Rock!" -- Oh, that's cool!

"Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride!" -- DUKE IS GOD!!!

And then I just played with mouth ajar, and a really stupid look on my face at the revelation.

[GoodStuff]

Too many people board the Hype Train and take the one way trip from Speculation Station to Reality City - which ulitimately leads to Letdown Town.

Yep. That sums it up boys.


It's like what I posted on another thread...

"I think the game will be really great. The best yet. But many, many of the suggestions I have seen would require the use of a Star Trek holodeck. And then some. Some guys here have said stuff like:

"I want to buy a submarine sandwich from a vending machine, take off the plastic remove the sliced onions, dip it in water, drop it on the ground after folding it once over, step on only the cheese in it, crunch it with the inner left heel of Nukem's boot, and lay it on top of someones head, who says something about it."

I mean, come on! It would take a team of 1000 scientists and game makers devising an engine and a super keyboard/input device to make that stuff happen. "

Some expect too much. But anyway...



I am convinced that the quality of DNF will be sufficiant enough to force other game companies to create quality over quantity. I'd like to see more time and detail put into tomorrows gaming experience.

Hooper just smashed the nail on the head so hard that the 2X4 cracked in half.

[DudeMiester]

Oh I say all kinds of crazy things, crazy enough to be mentioned at Something Aweful's website, but I really don't mind. As long as they excel across the entire spectrum of computer gaming, like DN3D did, that's great. I don't care too much about specifics, well as long as they have pig cops.

[Imfamous]

I hope it has some realism. I don't want it to be arcade shooting mechanics on the scale of Serious Sam. I think Far Cry and Halo's gunplay is about right.

[Geo-King]

I remember one ultra-hyped guy on a Doom3 forum (before its release) talking about how he envisioned that the game would be. His fantasy scenario consisted of the Doom Guy stuck in a large hall with a Hell Knight, he imagined shooting at the enemy with his shotgun as the it crashed toward him and grabbed the Doom Guy in its hand. He somehow thought he was going to be able to shoot the Hell Knight while being flailed around wildly in the air, pumping shotgun blasts in its chest. Here's where it gets nuts though, running out of ammo he was to take out a grenade and stuff it in the mouth of the demon, while simultaneously propping his feet on its chest to propell himself backward into the air. He was supposed to be able to watch the demon explode before his feet even touched the ground.

Hype makes some people crazy!

[hell-angel]

Imfamous said:
I hope it has some realism. I don't want it to be arcade shooting mechanics on the scale of Serious Sam. I think Far Cry and Halo's gunplay is about right.

I expect it to be around D3D's type of gameplay, only a bit matured.

[Hooper]

I hope it has some realism. I don't want it to be arcade shooting mechanics on the scale of Serious Sam. I think Far Cry and Halo's gunplay is about right.

Far Cry and Halo's gunplay are part of what I don't want in DNF. Save tactical and military shooting for those games, Duke Nukem shouldn't become "Me Too!" just become those games are popular. DNF has to dare to be different - in a class of it's own - it's an arcade "Action Hero" style shooter. The only game to get FPS right on the all out arcade action in a long time was Serious Sam, but I agree that I wouldn't want DNF to go overboard like that though. Leave insane screaming headless zombies with bombs to SS.

Duke can't try to be something he isn't, his ego won't let him.

[hell-angel]

Hooper said:

Far Cry and Halo's gunplay are part of what I don't want in DNF. Save tactical and military shooting for those games, Duke Nukem shouldn't become "Me Too!" just become those games are popular. DNF has to dare to be different - in a class of it's own - it's an arcade "Action Hero" style shooter. The only game to get FPS right on the all out arcade action in a long time was Serious Sam, but I agree that I wouldn't want DNF to go overboard like that though. Leave insane screaming headless zombies with bombs to SS.

Duke can't try to be something he isn't, his ego won't let him.

I agree on this completely.

[GoodStuff]

Yes, Duke Nukem is not about being a tactical shooter. But I don't think it would go down well if all realism was tossed aside, either. Fun comes first though.

[The Count]

DNF certainly won`t be too unrealistic, it will also reflect the state-of-the-art in fps of the 21th century
you could see that already in the 2001-video
it is not a DN3D-remake
but George has stated before that they always prefer fun for plain realism or something
we won`t miss the fun

Surprising that their motto used to be, or still is, 'Reality is our game'.

[Hooper]

Viper Knight wrote:
Surprising that their motto used to be, or still is, 'Reality is our game'.

I've always taken the 'Reality is Our Game' as saying 'Gaming is Our Life'. A sort of a play on words, like saying that reality is a momentary break from gaming, instead of gaming being a momentary break from reality. They live their games. Another way to put it is 'Gaming is Our Reality'.

Good point, Hooper. 3D Realms are clever with words, arn't they? Like Duke Nukem '3'D and Duke Nukem 'For'ever. '3'=three. 'For'=four.

What am I saying...all you guys probably already knew!

[DissidentRage]

They could also be saying they are trying to attain characteristics of reality in their games.

Well, yeah, that's what I thought.

[GoodStuff]

Do any half recent 3DR games use the motto in them anywhere?

[Kyle_Katarn]

I saw this and thought they were making a Duke Nukem movie-ride type thing for a theme park. Like a James Bond one I rode a few times! I even think it was called The 007 Experience!

A Duke Nukem themed one of those would OWN!

GoodStuff said:
Do any half recent 3DR games use the motto in them anywhere?

The last one, that I know of, that used it was Shadow Warrior.

[Micki!]

Kyle_Katarn said:
I saw this and thought they were making a Duke Nukem movie-ride type thing for a theme park. Like a James Bond one I rode a few times! I even think it was called The 007 Experience!

A Duke Nukem themed one of those would OWN!

Imagine this...

[GoodStuff]

Hooper.


http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/sh...p;page=0#756754

[business]

Amen. Duke3D was the most fun I've ever had in multiplayer. I can remember some of the best moments playing modem-to-modem with my friend after school:

->Blowing my friend out of the sky countless times with an RPG.

->Putting a holoduke in an elevator, sending it down, sending it back up, putting pipebombs in the elevator, my friend calls the elevator down, I blow him up.

->Shooting my friend with a shotgun and watching his player fall to his knees and grab his throat, then collapse.

->Spamming autotaunts with the f-keys and knowing my friend's family is hearing it....hilarious!

[Kalki]

Micki! said:

Imagine this...

This makes a better overall logo, don't you think?

[shiranui]

Good post!

Even if DNF were nothing more than a remake of Duke Nukem 3D, I would still buy it. DN3D remains one of the all-time classics.

Actually, this thread has reminded me about a question I have for George, but I will leave that for a seperate thread.

[Zaarin]

Kalki, cool 007 meets Duke-logo.

[Kalki]

Thanks!

[Micki!]

SOMEONE, Photoshop Dukes gun on my pic, to be golden..! That would make it complete..!

[fofo.rider]

Photoshop it !!!

[Neptune]

Viper Knight said:
Good point, Hooper. 3D Realms are clever with words, arn't they? Like Duke Nukem '3'D and Duke Nukem 'For'ever. '3'=three. 'For'=four.

What am I saying...all you guys probably already knew!

Aye. I figured that out a couple of months ago. i was like 'Hmm... that's funny' then it hit me. Clever.

Too many people board the Hype Train and take the one way trip from Speculation Station to Reality City - which ulitimately leads to Letdown Town.

I usually hitchhike there, so I've got nothing to worry about.

[hell-angel]

Neptune said:

I usually hitchhike there, so I've got nothing to worry about.

HAHA LOL

[Famous]

Best post ever. You nailed it. No game, single or multiplayer, will ever slay me like Duke 3D did.

I think I'll get Jono's port and play it again. . .

[Echo Black]

Famous said:
Best post ever. You nailed it. No game, single or multiplayer, will ever slay me like Duke 3D did.

I think I'll get Jono's port and play it again. . .

I always found Quake 3's multiplayer one of the best ever. It's like DN3D's but with advanced techniques like BFG jumping, Plasma Laddering, etc. The 1v1s for Quake 3 were insane. So freaking tense. You had to play it smart, collect powerups to fake your passage through a determined area, activating a lift but not going through it to make the sound alert the opponent and have him distracted, etc. The Railgun also added to the overall awesomeness, it was really inspiring watching a good player dominating with it (even from close range) while people had their Rocket Launchers and Shotguns (straightforward weapons) and were getting owned by a quick rail while jumping to the far away platform at "The Longest Yard". And knowing the map was 90% of doing well at Quake 3, the pros would fire rockets at empty corridors and nail an unlucky fellow they predicted would be showing up at the end of it soon.

[Micki!]

Echo Black said:

I always found Quake 3's multiplayer one of the best ever. It's like DN3D's but with advanced techniques like BFG jumping, Plasma Laddering, etc. The 1v1s for Quake 3 were insane. So freaking tense. You had to play it smart, collect powerups to fake your passage through a determined area, activating a lift but not going through it to make the sound alert the opponent and have him distracted, etc. The Railgun also added to the overall awesomeness, it was really inspiring watching a good player dominating with it (even from close range) while people had their Rocket Launchers and Shotguns (straightforward weapons) and were getting owned by a quick rail while jumping to the far away platform at "The Longest Yard". And knowing the map was 90% of doing well at Quake 3, the pros would fire rockets at empty corridors and nail an unlucky fellow they predicted would be showing up at the end of it soon.

True..! Quake 3 is VERY cool..!
I have beaten every level in the Hardcore difficulty..! Except the last level..!
Some levels were beaten in nightmare mode..!

[Zaarin]

Yet another b-day without getting DNF for present.
Maybe next year...

[Ca Desert man]

I remember playing the 1st level Duke Nukem 3-D as if it were yesterday. The rooftop the crash that I have seen so many times. All I know is that this better be beautiful like duke3d and when I mean beautiful it better be as ugly as hell with meaty sounds as shrapnel hits you, explosions for no other reason than to show explosions, insane amounts of testosterone that drives you on, the cliches "Hail to the king baby", roars of some moster you disembowel it with a shot gun when it was taking a dump, the object that you could shoot for no reason, and most importantly the guns oh god I remember I almost whept when I saw the ripper {even though the sounds were kinda week}, and above all the cheese of Duke Nukem not taking anything from nobody never period .