Duke Nukem: In Depth

NoLifeKing · 03-30-2005, 05:46 AM

After reading through the forums a couple of stray thoughts formed themselves into a topic in my head.

Gamers who don't know about Duke Nukem (yes, they DO exist ^_^) are usually amazed at the impressive fanbase and dedication the fans of the Duke Nukem franchise display even so many years after the release of "Duke Nukem 3d" and the long wait for its sequel.

A question i have been asked fairly often, mostly by younger gamers is: " There is nothing here I haven't seen in other FPS. Even if at the time it was released it was very innovative, it was nothing completely groundbraking or revolutionary. What makes Duke Nukem so special?."

My answer is: "The one thing no other game has: Duke Nukem."

There are a lot of memorable characters in the virtual world of games but in the FPS genre no one and no thing is as catchy and unforgettable as Duke Nukem. Even if there are some good ones out there, for example the characters from MDK, none of them stay in the back of your head for long.

Only Duke Nukem seems to remain.

Why is that?

What kind of character is Duke Nukem that makes him so captivating. He is no deep charakter from a role playing game with a long and colorful history, with flaws and merits that make his personality complex and endearing.
In truth he is a shallowbrained macho with an ego big as a mountain who doesn't show more emotion than being somewhat irritated at an alien race trying to conquer earth; and this irritation alone justifies their extinction courtesy of Dukes guns and size 13 boots. How can you like such a character?

There are many answers for this phenomenom.
Firstly there is the matter of presentation. Duke Nukem lives a great deal of its own brand of humor, self irony. Nothing of the bloodshed or the impending doom of humanity strikes you as serious. It is almost like old fashioned Tom and Jerry style cartoon violence, something you can show to your kids, but with an adult flavored touch and humor.

I believe the reason this works so well is connected to the very nature of FPS games.

A game is supposed to be fun. In an FPS games you basically venture around killing tons of enemies. Killing living beings is not something which is morally considered to be "adequate fun" even if the beings are virtual.

Duke Nukem takes away all those little nagging things that could gnaw at your conscience and spoil your fun. That is what makes him truly the gamer's hero. You instinctively know not to take anything to serious including Duke himself and in our heads the massacre on the screen quickly turns into something almost like a childish innocent play like Cowboys and Indians among kids.

All thanks to Duke's seemingly shallow character. Duke Nukem never shows fear, he never shows disappointment. He is a definite macho but he doesn't deem women to be below him, doesn't expect them to come begging for a piece of his attention. He is arrogant but not delusionally so. He doesn't show real loathing towards his enemies, no emotional outbreaks where he goes berserk in a flash of rage. It's more like taunting between rivals, similiar to behavior on LAN - Parties. All in good fun.

Duke Nukem is in a way a flawless, innocent character. Too much character development would ruin him. Or would it?

How about the future Duke? Would you want him different from the old one? I for one welcome changes, but I doubt that I would dare to do more than subtle development.

Must Duke evolve? Must he stay the same?

Please comment.

John · 03-30-2005, 05:52 AM

Um....hmmmm.....Well,

I don't believe his character should evolve; Just the way he does stuff, that should evolve immensly.

GordoSan · 03-30-2005, 05:57 AM

For me it is the Humour that is important.
I still play Duke3d now using Jonofs port and it still makes me smile !

Which is something Quake, Doom, Half life etc never did.

Being able to play a death and destruction FPS and walk away feeling good, is something I hope they can duplicate in Duke Nukem Forever

FireFly · 03-30-2005, 06:20 AM

Great post.

I agree with everything you've said, but Duke seems strange to me. I mean, I keep thinking "what was he like as a kid?", "does he have friends he hangs out with?" "girlfriends?" "hobbies?" If he's always been this one dimensional character then it seems kind of sad.

I think Duke should evolve into an action hero in the vain of John Mclane or 'Stallone'. He wouldn't be needessly macho, or have the super ego of Duke in the platform games. He'd just have a really dry wit, and lots of great, deadpan/sarcastic one-liners delivered with perfect comedy timing.

The Duke in DNMP was far to corny, as with most one dimensional heroes in games. I hope 3DR rises above all that and creates a character that seems more like an adult.

03-30-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

NoLifeKing said:
What kind of character is Duke Nukem that makes him so captivating. He is no deep charakter from a role playing game with a long and colorful history, with flaws and merits that make his personality complex and endearing.
In truth he is a shallowbrained macho with an ego big as a mountain who doesn't show more emotion than being somewhat irritated at an alien race trying to conquer earth; and this irritation alone justifies their extinction courtesy of Dukes guns and size 13 boots. How can you like such a character?

Hey, man! You forgot they came to steal our chicks! Conquer us fine, but nobody steals our chicks and lives!!

Anyway, I agree with a lot you said, but not so much Duke being innocent. He doesn't make me not think pesky questions about morality, when it comes to games, I never do. I can anjoy killing some combine, or nazis with the same sense of fun.

Duke can evolve a bit, a bit more of a rounded character, with some depth (trying that with my fan fiction story in the Duke Nukem forum - little shameless plug there) but he should never change at his core: arrogant, unstoppable, one-man army, and the ultimate asskicker with an attitude.

Megami · 03-30-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

3D Master said:
...arrogant, unstoppable, one-man army, and the ultimate asskicker with an attitude.

Thats how we can like him :P

someguy2435 · 03-30-2005, 05:11 PM

I was reading this thread while humming the Duke them.

03-30-2005, 09:52 PM

They got in the way of his arse kicking and bullying so he shot them
or better yet he sabotaged their parachutes so they crashed screaming and kicking on the way down

03-30-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

NoLifeKing said:
Duke Nukem is in a way a flawless, innocent character. Too much character development would ruin him. Or would it?

Don't know. Some people might say you can never have too much development in a character. I wouldn't mind Duke making references to the past, like something to do with his old arch enemy Dr Proton for instance. But I wouldn't want Duke bending down and crying because he just found out he was adopted or something!

Quote:

NoLifeKing said:
How about the future Duke? Would you want him different from the old one? I for one welcome changes, but I doubt that I would dare to do more than subtle development.

I don't want 3D Realms changing anything about Duke. He can have development but no change.

Quote:

NoLifeKing said:
Must Duke evolve? Must he stay the same?

Stay the same. He's fine the way he is.

Emultra · 03-31-2005, 06:22 PM

Agreed with above.

I guess a darker plot could be interesting, but only if it didn't rule it all. It's hard to say. As long as the domination core of Duke is that of what we have all come to know, it should be good. The more sinister stuff would probably be best put in the middle and after that the good 'ole Duke would return.

Oh, and running, crawling and jumping whilst simultaneously kicking forwards with both feet is a must.

Mr.Sociopath · 03-31-2005, 07:07 PM

It is in my opinion that evolution is part of everything 's life, and duke being part of everything should evolve in something more proper to him, which means not change really but evolve into himself, the true duke inside duke...
therefor in these times of liberation I honestly think that duke should have breast implants

NetNessie · 03-31-2005, 08:21 PM

I'm only waiting for DNF because Draz is holding my family.

Boinky · 03-31-2005, 09:41 PM

Hrm... Duke is blonde, built, and egotistical.. Much like myself... Only difference is I cant save the world cause Ive only learned to fire an M16 :\

Drazula · 04-01-2005, 08:12 AM

Quote:

NetNessie said:
I'm only waiting for DNF because Draz is holding my family.

You are supposed to be standing on one foot too!

NutWrench · 04-01-2005, 08:30 AM

Quote:

NoLifeKing said:
Must Duke evolve? Must he stay the same?

Please comment.

Duke just needs to be cool and kill his enemies in amusing ways. Having long, introspective monologues with himself ala Max Payne would be utterly distracting:

"My Harley blazed down the highway like hot lead fired from the barrel of a .45, the engine screaming like some kind of . . . . metaphor or something."

avatar_58 · 04-01-2005, 11:48 AM

Duke? Evolve? Nope....I hope this game stays true to what Duke 3D was...fun, funny, asskicking and action filled. Yes, that may be shallow as hell but its duke for god sakes.....who can honsetly play the original platformers and think "Gee that was a nice story"

I don't know about you, but when I picture what DNF should be....heres what I come up with

1) The kick ass action-packed feeling of painkiller
2) The Epic action scenes of HL2
3) The Humour of Duke3D
4) The interactivity of GTA

All rolled up into a fat cuban (the cigar, not castro). Of course I could be wrong and duke could end up being Max Payne meets The Sims. Guess we'll have to wait.

That monologue could be funny though...imagine if they started it out with him talking to himself about his past games as sort of a jab at max payne. Instead of being full of metaphors it can be full of comical references to movies and other games.

04-01-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

avatar_58 said:
Duke? Evolve? Nope....I hope this game stays true to what Duke 3D was...fun, funny, asskicking and action filled. Yes, that may be shallow as hell but its duke for god sakes.....who can honsetly play the original platformers and think "Gee that was a nice story"

I don't know about you, but when I picture what DNF should be....heres what I come up with

1) The kick ass action-packed feeling of painkiller
2) The Epic action scenes of HL2
3) The Humour of Duke3D
4) The interactivity of GTA

All rolled up into a fat cuban (the cigar, not castro). Of course I could be wrong and duke could end up being Max Payne meets The Sims. Guess we'll have to wait.

That monologue could be funny though...imagine if they started it out with him talking to himself about his past games as sort of a jab at max payne. Instead of being full of metaphors it can be full of comical references to movies and other games.

Heh, I can hear and picture the ending of the short start:

"and that's why . . . ah, who the hell kind of pantsy wants to do these damn monologues anyway. Let's just kick some ass and chew bubble gum . . . [sounds of hands searching in pockets] . . . damn, I'm outa gum again."

JackpotDen · 04-01-2005, 01:30 PM

Or, those damn witty one liners in simlish.

Merlijn · 04-05-2005, 04:34 AM

Yeah the thing that makes the game so cool is that it doesn't take itself seriously. Just look at the story alone: Aliens conquer LA, mutate the LAPD into pig cops and steal our chicks

I don't think Duke's character should evolve too much, don't make him some self-doubting anti-hero with a midlife crisis please

03-30-2005, 09:52 PM	#8
Michelangelo Guest	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth They got in the way of his arse kicking and bullying so he shot them or better yet he sabotaged their parachutes so they crashed screaming and kicking on the way down

03-30-2005, 05:46 AM	#1
NoLifeKing	Duke Nukem: In Depth After reading through the forums a couple of stray thoughts formed themselves into a topic in my head. Gamers who don't know about Duke Nukem (yes, they DO exist ^_^) are usually amazed at the impressive fanbase and dedication the fans of the Duke Nukem franchise display even so many years after the release of "Duke Nukem 3d" and the long wait for its sequel. A question i have been asked fairly often, mostly by younger gamers is: " There is nothing here I haven't seen in other FPS. Even if at the time it was released it was very innovative, it was nothing completely groundbraking or revolutionary. What makes Duke Nukem so special?." My answer is: "The one thing no other game has: Duke Nukem." There are a lot of memorable characters in the virtual world of games but in the FPS genre no one and no thing is as catchy and unforgettable as Duke Nukem. Even if there are some good ones out there, for example the characters from MDK, none of them stay in the back of your head for long. Only Duke Nukem seems to remain. Why is that? What kind of character is Duke Nukem that makes him so captivating. He is no deep charakter from a role playing game with a long and colorful history, with flaws and merits that make his personality complex and endearing. In truth he is a shallowbrained macho with an ego big as a mountain who doesn't show more emotion than being somewhat irritated at an alien race trying to conquer earth; and this irritation alone justifies their extinction courtesy of Dukes guns and size 13 boots. How can you like such a character? There are many answers for this phenomenom. Firstly there is the matter of presentation. Duke Nukem lives a great deal of its own brand of humor, self irony. Nothing of the bloodshed or the impending doom of humanity strikes you as serious. It is almost like old fashioned Tom and Jerry style cartoon violence, something you can show to your kids, but with an adult flavored touch and humor. I believe the reason this works so well is connected to the very nature of FPS games. A game is supposed to be fun. In an FPS games you basically venture around killing tons of enemies. Killing living beings is not something which is morally considered to be "adequate fun" even if the beings are virtual. Duke Nukem takes away all those little nagging things that could gnaw at your conscience and spoil your fun. That is what makes him truly the gamer's hero. You instinctively know not to take anything to serious including Duke himself and in our heads the massacre on the screen quickly turns into something almost like a childish innocent play like Cowboys and Indians among kids. All thanks to Duke's seemingly shallow character. Duke Nukem never shows fear, he never shows disappointment. He is a definite macho but he doesn't deem women to be below him, doesn't expect them to come begging for a piece of his attention. He is arrogant but not delusionally so. He doesn't show real loathing towards his enemies, no emotional outbreaks where he goes berserk in a flash of rage. It's more like taunting between rivals, similiar to behavior on LAN - Parties. All in good fun. Duke Nukem is in a way a flawless, innocent character. Too much character development would ruin him. Or would it? How about the future Duke? Would you want him different from the old one? I for one welcome changes, but I doubt that I would dare to do more than subtle development. Must Duke evolve? Must he stay the same? Please comment. __________________ Life is like Pacman. You either die of greed or stupidity.

03-30-2005, 05:52 AM	#2
John	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth Um....hmmmm.....Well, I don't believe his character should evolve; Just the way he does stuff, that should evolve immensly. __________________ Duke4.net Let not mankind bogart love. [A pessimist is what an optimist defines as a realist.]

03-30-2005, 05:57 AM	#3
GordoSan	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth For me it is the Humour that is important. I still play Duke3d now using Jonofs port and it still makes me smile ! Which is something Quake, Doom, Half life etc never did. Being able to play a death and destruction FPS and walk away feeling good, is something I hope they can duplicate in Duke Nukem Forever __________________ Never teach a pig to sing ! Its a waste of time and it irritates the pig !

03-30-2005, 06:20 AM	#4
FireFly	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth Great post. I agree with everything you've said, but Duke seems strange to me. I mean, I keep thinking "what was he like as a kid?", "does he have friends he hangs out with?" "girlfriends?" "hobbies?" If he's always been this one dimensional character then it seems kind of sad. I think Duke should evolve into an action hero in the vain of John Mclane or 'Stallone'. He wouldn't be needessly macho, or have the super ego of Duke in the platform games. He'd just have a really dry wit, and lots of great, deadpan/sarcastic one-liners delivered with perfect comedy timing. The Duke in DNMP was far to corny, as with most one dimensional heroes in games. I hope 3DR rises above all that and creates a character that seems more like an adult. __________________ "I think the push for people to innovate in gameplay - i'm not sure that I particularly agree with it" John Carmack

03-30-2005, 05:11 PM	#7
someguy2435	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth I was reading this thread while humming the Duke them. __________________ Things go here. Rabble rabble.

03-31-2005, 06:22 PM	#10
Emultra	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth Agreed with above. I guess a darker plot could be interesting, but only if it didn't rule it all. It's hard to say. As long as the domination core of Duke is that of what we have all come to know, it should be good. The more sinister stuff would probably be best put in the middle and after that the good 'ole Duke would return. Oh, and running, crawling and jumping whilst simultaneously kicking forwards with both feet is a must.

03-31-2005, 07:07 PM	#11
Mr.Sociopath	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth It is in my opinion that evolution is part of everything 's life, and duke being part of everything should evolve in something more proper to him, which means not change really but evolve into himself, the true duke inside duke... therefor in these times of liberation I honestly think that duke should have breast implants

03-31-2005, 08:21 PM	#12
NetNessie	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth I'm only waiting for DNF because Draz is holding my family. __________________ Ink Grass • LazyMoon • Photography "Say something wise, and your name will be remembered forever." - Anonymous

03-31-2005, 09:41 PM	#13
Boinky	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth Hrm... Duke is blonde, built, and egotistical.. Much like myself... Only difference is I cant save the world cause Ive only learned to fire an M16 :\ __________________ If you give a man a jingle, he'll jingle for a day. If you teach a man to jingle, he'll jingle all the way! I got a fever. And the only prescription, is more cowbell.

04-01-2005, 11:48 AM	#16
avatar_58	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth Duke? Evolve? Nope....I hope this game stays true to what Duke 3D was...fun, funny, asskicking and action filled. Yes, that may be shallow as hell but its duke for god sakes.....who can honsetly play the original platformers and think "Gee that was a nice story" I don't know about you, but when I picture what DNF should be....heres what I come up with 1) The kick ass action-packed feeling of painkiller 2) The Epic action scenes of HL2 3) The Humour of Duke3D 4) The interactivity of GTA All rolled up into a fat cuban (the cigar, not castro). Of course I could be wrong and duke could end up being Max Payne meets The Sims. Guess we'll have to wait. That monologue could be funny though...imagine if they started it out with him talking to himself about his past games as sort of a jab at max payne. Instead of being full of metaphors it can be full of comical references to movies and other games.

04-01-2005, 01:30 PM	#18
JackpotDen	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth Or, those damn witty one liners in simlish. __________________ Will you pick rifles, or computers?

04-05-2005, 04:34 AM	#19
Merlijn	Re: Duke Nukem: In Depth Yeah the thing that makes the game so cool is that it doesn't take itself seriously. Just look at the story alone: Aliens conquer LA, mutate the LAPD into pig cops and steal our chicks I don't think Duke's character should evolve too much, don't make him some self-doubting anti-hero with a midlife crisis please __________________ sigh, nature