What do we want to see in this game?

[Suppressor1]

hm.. go ahead...

[Templedog]

Two Words:

RPG chaingun

[wieder]

Originally Posted by Templedog

Two Words:

RPG chaingun

Isn't that basically what the Devastator was?

[hell-angel]

My thoughts exactly, that is what the Devastator is

[Malgon]

^That weapon f*cking ROCKED!

[Micki!]

^^
Yeah, i really hope it returns...

[Reaper]

I hope they scrap the rpg and just give the devastator/pipebomb combo platter as the asploder-type weapons.

naddie posted:
As for what I'd like to see in DNF, my same tune has always been more Game Types. Despite Joe's opinion, DM and TDM is nearly dead.

I agree with everything you said, (including the unquoted parts) except Forza. I've no idea what that is like.

P.S. Is Forza on the X360 BC list?

[Kalki]

What does the RPG fire? Grenades? Or pipebombs?

[hell-angel]

Originally Posted by Kalki

What does the RPG fire? Grenades? Or pipebombs?

The RPG fires RPG's, Rocket Propelled Grenades.
They are bassically missles

[Spartan_234]

Originally Posted by Mr.Sociopath

interactivity in duke nukem 3d is still kind of up-to-date in a way..
I mean even doom 3 and others have less interactivity than duke 3d(except the possibility to point and click on computer screens)..

SiN is even more interactive than Duke Nukem 3D. For instance, in the bank level, you can get on a computer and go to a DOS prompt where you can tinker around with files and familiar DOS commands. I expect DNF to be just like that...but infinitely better. Yeah, I'm expecting that much, especially from a game that's taking "forever" to develop

[Mr.Fibbles]

Originally Posted by Zarniwoop

I hope more than anyone that I am wrong and will gladly eat 3 tons of crow should this game be released and be successful.

You know KaiserSoze said he would eat his underpants if there was no DNF info in the article that was on Prey, he was wrong and actually did it. so the question is are?

I expect the game to be played as long as DN3D, which is still played today 10 years later. The best games are the ones you can play for years after it is released, some even after the sequels are released.
DNF will have great interectivity and I expect it to have rather nice graphics and a story that is reasonably good and entertaining.

[Kalki]

Yeah they're pretty much rockets. I just read up on them on wikipedia.

[kong235]

blood duke his deagle and a mighty foot tooo.

[dmtbp]

I'd like to see a secret level, where we can find a computer with lots of videos from dnf previous versions. Screenshots. Etc.
And of course pretty damn cool sentences/comments from Duke while we are watching them.
Pictures on the wall, portraits about the creators of DNF.
A very simple thing of course, but..im sure that EVERYBODY is interested in, how Duke looked years and years ago..


but if this is not an easy solution, than just give us a bonus cd with a "making of DNF" label...

(sorry for my english)

[mr. pinky demon]

But i beleive the very first fps to ever come out and make pc sorta of like a gaming port is wolfenstien 3d, either that or one of the very first (but it did make it to where pc was more than just a buisness tool).

But i expect the game will change how some games will be played. Nintendo is trying that with there new system the Nintendo WII. I would love to swing the controler like a sword to attack an enemy than just press a button.

Dx3=you.

[HairBall]

i expect it to blow me away, becouse il heard of this game 9 years ago, and still want it. So i have HIGH hopes.

[Blade Nightflame]

Originally Posted by mr. pinky demon

But i beleive the very first fps to ever come out and make pc sorta of like a gaming port is wolfenstien 3d, either that or one of the very first (but it did make it to where pc was more than just a buisness tool).

But i expect the game will change how some games will be played. Nintendo is trying that with there new system the Nintendo WII. I would love to swing the controler like a sword to attack an enemy than just press a button.

Dx3=you.

Correction. The very first game was something along the lines of Catacombs.
Wolfenstein3d merely brought PC gaming to fruition.

[Black Baron]

Edit: How on earth did my post about miniguns end up in here!?

[bokaj]

Of course the graphics will be dated even if the engine is heavily modified. There is no doubt about that. And when it's done it will be even more dated competing with games like crysis, gear of wars, bioshock etc. .. and yes that was a joke .. the graphics in these games will also be dated when DNF is released.

But that doesn't mean that it can't be a fun game with great design .. anything better than 7-7.5 out of 10 in general and I will be honestly surprised and give it a try.

[ADM]

Originally Posted by bokaj

Of course the graphics will be dated even if the engine is heavily modified.

You know that doesn't make any sense at all, right? You can't say something is dated because of the fact that they are only using the networking code from the Unreal games and pretty much everything else is rewritten from scratch themselves.

Engines are modular nowadays, things can get updated without it affecting the rest of the game or engine.

[bokaj]

I'm just being realistic about it and not talking about what theoretical is possible. DNF has been on its way for a long time and its hard to believe that 3Drealm is using their time chasing the graphic standards of the newest releases. And it will not be released tommorow you know.. sure engines are modular nowadays, but implementing significant updates on graphic, physics .. its not like you can make UR2004 look like UR2007 just throwing in some shaders or something. Maybe they have rewritten everything but at some stage they have ended up with a working engine with it benefits and limitations.
I think its safe to say that the graphics will be dated compared to the standards WHEN IT IS RELEASED.
But still it can be a good looking game with great designs and everything. You really don't see this as a plausable possibility?

[Kristian Joensen]

Look bokaj, DNF is no different that other games in this regards. Other games also have to finish the engine at some point. This includes the games DNF has to compete against graphicaly. UE3's featureset has been basicaly locked for like 2-3 years. But you surely don't worry about the ability of UE3 to compete do you ?

Why then worry about DNF ?

[Kit]

Doom3-esque graphics running at source engine speed, I'd be completely satisfied with that.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by bokaj

and yes that was a joke .. the graphics in these games will also be dated when DNF is released.

Not to turn this into a release date thread, but you don't know that. Graphics don't become outdated automatically - but in cycles as new 'generation defining' games are released. Even now I think F.E.A.R's graphics hold up well and are fine for a game released before Crysis. I mean Prey certainly didn't look dated when it shipped.

Originally Posted by bokaj

Maybe they have rewritten everything but at some stage they have ended up with a working engine with it benefits and limitations.

Right, and you don't know what those benefits and limitations are, so you can't comment on how up to date the game will look. Engines are nearly always finalised years before the game itself is finished. For example Doom 3's tech level stayed constant constant over the 4 years of its development, with the core renderer being done in 2001, and the final game shipping in August 2004! Then 1 year later Prey shipped on the same engine, and was still visually competitive.

In this case 3D Realms' 'new engine' was finalised in 2003, and it has been incrementally updated, so I think it's quite possible that DNF could be visually competitive in 2007 (as an example). When the team made the fundamental tech decisions, they were projecting years into the future -the engine wasn't designed to be shipped in 2003 or 2004.

As George Broussard said in December 2004:

"Don't under estimate our tech or visuals. We shot pretty high on all counts."

But we know they've been updating the engine to add new features like motion blur or depth of field:

"It's fairly easy to add and update shaders and we do so all the time. The graphics guys are ahead and always have time to add in bells and whistles. Many things like per pixel blur, depth of field etc, have zero impact on game content and drop in, in a few days." (March, 2006)

The graphics guys are there to keep the engine up to date, so "using their time chasing the graphic standards of the newest releases" isn't a problem; it's their job. And these days visual improvements are focused almost entirely around new shaders. The texture resolution and poly counts that Crysis pushes aren't that impressive; it's only the amazing lighting model that makes everything look so realistic.

Originally Posted by bokaj

And it will not be released tommorow you know.. sure engines are modular nowadays, but implementing significant updates on graphic, physics .. its not like you can make UR2004 look like UR2007 just throwing in some shaders or something.

In the case of UT2007 the lighting model and normal mapping is what creates the huge visual difference. The models only have a few thousand polys more but the normal maps make it seem like they have hundreds of thousands, even millions more. So if you imagine DNF as UT2004, all 3D Realms have to do is use higher quality normal maps. The engine doesn't need to be changed for that.

[Dark Angel]

I expect DNF will have something new, something that no other game has had before. I could tell you what I think it is, but I don't want to spoil the surprise. But I can tell you this, "It will be a heart pounding experience".

Dark Angel
Have an AWESOME day!!!

[bokaj]

Doom 3 tech level stayed constant for 4 years and they made a game and shipped it. Hmm .. nice way to work.
In case of UR2004 against UR2007 its not "just" lightning and mapping that makes the difference. The much more capable engine opens up for new ideas and concepts to be implemented in the game and these possibilities is of course explored and used by the development team. At least thats what they say .. and maybe 3DRealms are using a lot of resources doing all this stuff, and in the end we will have a next-gen game in all respects and that will be lovely.
As I said before I'm not arguing that its not possible, but I really don't think it's very realistic.
Long development time and many delays are never healthy signs for a project.
Many employes leaving the project at this stage does not point against a well running project with a great engine and a fab game to be released in the near future.
There was the small articel in CGM without any real signs of exitement .. I know .. later in this Forum he was like "you guys will be pleased with what they are doing" but still ..
For me the ongoing absolutely absence of e.g. screenshot tells me that there are still a LOT to be done or that they have nothing really interesting to show and therefore as regards marketing it's better not to.
I could go on and yes .. I know that there already are plenty of threads in this Forum against all my arguments.
In the end it's my opinion and I think it's cool that many of you are much more optimistic. I just can't follow you ..
But let me also make it clear that I'm not all negative. I still believe as mentioned before that it can be a very fun game and I don't need a next-gen game as long they are fateful to the universe and come up with some great gameplay. I think that 3D realm are capable of that and hope they succed with it, despite the troubles they have had with the game. I'm quite sure they are working hard to get the best out of it.
And most important .. I REALLY hope the day will come where it's the actual game we argue about and not our believes.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by bokaj

Doom 3 tech level stayed constant for 4 years and they made a game and shipped it. Hmm .. nice way to work.

Carmack first showed off Doom 3's renderer in Febuary 2001, showcasing the unified lighting system. It was only in July 2004 that a game (Riddick) shipped with such a system, and in fact the game's programmers had re-written the lighting model after seeing Carmack's talk! So if id hadn't shown the game, Doom 3 could well have been the first title to ship with a lighting system of that calibre.

If you make the right decisions early on, your technology can stay competitive for a long time. I said 1 year, but Prey actually shipped 2 years after Doom 3, on the same engine, and didn't look dated.

The much more capable engine opens up for new ideas and concepts to be implemented in the game and these possibilities is of course explored and used by the development team.

You're talking about the other parts of the engine - the physics, the level streaming, the A.I. These things don't directly contribute to the game's visuals, and for example, we know DNF has a very competitive physics system.

As I said before I'm not arguing that its not possible, but I really don't think it's very realistic.

If you look at DNF's history you'll see the team have always pushed their technology beyond what anyone else was doing. In late 1998, they started work on a skeletal animation system for their Unreal Engine, which was finished by mid 1999. Epic only added in an equivalent system in late 2000. In 1999 3D Realms added a scripting system which would allow them to create fully interactive displays (so they could make poker machines, and such). I think Doom 3 was the first FPS to match this.

Before the E3 video they added a particle system that still looks amazing to this day (and they've since redone it). In 2002 they started making such heavy use of pixel shaders that they didn't even think the game would be worth running with a Geforce 2 (at the time, a very common mid-range card). Meanwhile other developers were taking very little advantage of pixel shaders.

3D Realms downfall was that they were far, far too ambitious with their tech, especially with the number of programmers that they had. So in that context I think there's a realistic possibility that DNF will be using up to date pixel shader effects, and up to date lighting effects, and will therefore be visually competitive.

Long development time and many delays are never healthy signs for a project. Many employes leaving the project at this stage does not point against a well running project with a great engine and a fab game to be released in the near future.

The project is delayed because a lot of mistakes were made and there were problems with the development process, caused by a lack of staff combined with extreme ambition, but 3D Realms have worked to resolve that.

Many of the people that left had been working on the game for 5+ years, so I think it's perfectly understandable that they wanted a break, and perhaps were getting frustrated with the game's development. Wieder had stuck with the game for 8 years, Keith Schuler had stuck with game for 9.

From Andy Hanson:

"That being said, I wish we would have shipped during the 5 years I was at 3DR, and would likely have remained if we did, but I continue to hope that they will manage to finish and release a great game."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=12776296

From Wieder:

"I still believe in DNF and think it is the best FPS going. I've commented before that I was sad I wouldn't get to enjoy it from the fan perspective... but now I do!

I can't wait to see it in final form... there is a TON of my heart and soul in the game (and perhaps even a little blood... heh). I can't thank 3DR enough for the chance to grow as a developer far beyond what I came to 3DR as."

"I still loved what I came in to do every day and would be doing it in my spare time regardless. Much of it *was* my spare time.

It's not worthwhile to speculate on where DNF is, no more today than a week ago. I as an individual wanted/needed some change and this is the result. I've wanted change for a couple of years now and probably should have gone a while ago, but that just goes to show how alluring DNF as a project was to work on, and enjoyable the people were to work with. I benefited greatly for my time at 3DR, and I only hope that others feel they and the project benefited from me being there."

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=119

There was the small articel in CGM without any real signs of exitement .. I know .. later in this Forum he was like "you guys will be pleased with what they are doing" but still ..

He explained why that was:

"That's a great question, Kalki. I'm accustomed to trying to be dispassionate about previews and letting the developers' words speak for them."

And the rest:

"Like most of you guys, I'm really excited for 3DR to get another game out, but after seeing what they're doing, I'm even more excited. It's partly that they were showing some impressive stuff, but I think it's mainly how true they're being to the Duke Nukem I remember. It was really encouraging to see how clearly they're still able to express the stuff that made Duke great. Because in the end, being next-gen doesn't mean beans to me if you're not able to do anything memorable with it.

I don't anticipate this is going to be a shortcoming of DNF. "

Now the fact is, everyone (that we know of) who has seen DNF has been extremely impressed. Even Chris Remo, the reporter on the 3D Realms departures (who made the story) said:

"Maybe so. If the game comes out, I will buy it. I've wanted to play it for a long time and I've heard from people who have played it that what's done is awesome."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=12778953

To me the question is not "will DNF be great?", but "will it arrive in time?". I've been collecting quotes from people who've commented on the game:


Brad Wernicke (3D Portal webmaster) - "I am one of the few people that have seen Duke Nukem Forever in development. I got a chance to see it this past July. While I am vowed not to go into detail, I can say that what I did see is nothing short of tremendous.

I have no clue when it is coming out, but based on what I saw, it will not disappoint." (December, 2002)

http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/636/521/

Bobby Pavlock (DNF level designer) - "I think alot of people will be pleasantly surprised when they finally see DNF" (Febuary, 2003) Rome.ro forums

Hayden Duvall (DNF artist) - "George would have my kids executed if I said anything that I wasn't supposed to about DNF, but it is one of the most significant games under development anywhere in the world right now,"

"I have seen the future, and its name is NUKEM."

"I certainly like the look of HL2- I think you'd have to be pretty insane not to be excited for Valve's next biggie. I do stand by my prediction though. DNF willl give you things that you've never seen before in a game (even from HL2 I am sure). I can't give you specifics of course, but I can say that the level of detail that we are going into with some of this stuff is just crazy. George knows what the fans want and he plans to deliver. " (September, 2003)

John Romero - "I saw DNF last time I was in Dallas and it looked very very nice". (Febuary, 2004) Rome.ro forums

Daniel/Zephbane (DNF level designer) - "As one of the newly hired level designers, and seeing DN4 first hand. I snicker at all the nay sayers and disbelievers. Sure, long development time and no content being shown can shy gamers away. But rest assured that when DN4 is released, and in your hands. You all (those that don't protest by not buying it ) will be thouroughly pleased Tis' going to be an extrodinary game."

"I was hired a week or so ago. Before, I was just another "modder" from the gaming community. So my view of the game isn't the same as from someone that has been on the project from the begginning. I was shown the game during my "orientation" [persay] of the facility, and I was completely wow'ed. I'm an avid gamer and have played a plethra of FPS's (like many others). I'm extremely lucky to be able to work on this title

Ehh... you'll see when it comes out " (July, 2005) Voodoo Extreme forums.

Dan Stapleton (Assistant Editor, PC Gamer) - "Even the tech demo that we were run through - it had a bunch of working dialogue and a bunch of working... I guess for lack of a better word I'll call them site gags. They had sort of physics gags that they ran us through in the level. And it was great stuff. You know, the old voice of Duke, John St. John, was back, doing his thing. It was funny.

I sat there and was really transported back to well, 10 years ago, when I really loved the original Duke. And it was all working great - I remember thinking OK all you gotta do is get like 12 of these levels together. That's it, and put it out." (PC Gamer Podcast #37) PC Gamer was shown the game for their June 2005 issue.

For me the ongoing absolutely absence of e.g. screenshot tells me that there are still a LOT to be done or that they have nothing really interesting to show and therefore as regards marketing it's better not to.

It's their policy not to show the game until it's close to release, close being 6 - 12 months.

But I understand where you're coming from and had I not followed DNF I would have the same opinion. However, I'm not saying DNF definitely will be released, or that it definitely will be great, just that there's a still good chance of that, and there's still reason to hope.

[JobivanHiob]

wow, awesome FireFly
thank you very much for your quotes, more than the half i've never red.
By reading these quotes i got totally hyped for DNF!

[bokaj]

FireFly -> Yes.. thanks for the quotes!! .. as I said I'm aware of the many arguments against mine, and I guess we just have to wait and see.
Prey is good looking but for me the engine is beginning to show its age.
I perfectly agree as regards your comments on the employes leaving ....
Present and recent employes in 3Drealms must be positive against the press and the quotes from most of the others are rather old. PC Gamer are always very fast with reviews and top ratings and I don't take them too serious.
I still beleive that updating a engine will force you to re-evaluate the game on several levels, balancing things out etc. and I consider the physics as a important part of the visuals.

Anyway .. it has been interesting reading for sure and maybe you have even given me some hope

I don't see my arguments as superiour compared to yours or anything, but the whole situation just leaves me with a different feeling. Maybe because what I see in my world is that bad project management (I know .. you disagree) has a far bigger influence on the final product than good intentions.

You have argumented heavily, that this could be the game we are all hoping for and mayby you're right .. at least my view is more varied than before .. let me change my "no doubt that the engine will dated .. " to "I think ...". And I really do

But what do you expect and what would satisfy you?

For me an important matter is that it is a .. damn .. don't know the word in english .. but maybe a very balanced game in terms of gameplay, story graphics and everything. Like a "welcome to the world of Duke Nukem" feeling. "Beyound good and evil" had it. For me HL2 didn't even if it was a great game with many memorable moments .. know what I mean?

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by bokaj

Present and recent employes in 3Drealms must be positive against the press and the quotes from most of the others are rather old. PC Gamer are always very fast with reviews and top ratings and I don't take them too serious.

In the podcast PC Gamer don't defend DNF at all, and Dan (who was shown the game, and who I quoted) says he's not convinced the game will be released. Immediately after that quote he says he doesn't know why 3D Realms is going so slowly (when they could just put out 12 of those levels).

So the PC Gamer guys are very much taking a "wait and see attitude". I agree about the forum comments, but then the employees didn't have to make any comments at all. It seems to me that they were genuinely excited.

Also, Neil Alphonso, a former level designer said in his blog:

"Work has been good the last few months, I've gotten to do some more ground-up work rather than polish and I think it's some of the stronger work I've done in my career so far. The issues that have plagued the production still linger around a bit to be sure, but we're still moving forward well." (March 2005)

http://thrmoptc.livejournal.com/

"Got my first glimpses of Doom 3 in action just a bit ago on the big screen, it is absolutely gorgeous, but certainly not without corners cut. It's just reassuring to know that even the top dogs can't do everything well. I guess I won't be able to play it unless I pick up a copy and play it afterhours at work, since it'll be a while till my PC makes it from Seattle.

After looking at it for a while, I am *very* glad I came here to work on DNF. I'll leave it at that. "

http://thrmoptc.livejournal.com/?skip=40

I would say that's a fairly balanced account. He admits there are still problems, but seems very happy with the work they're doing.

I still beleive that updating a engine will force you to re-evaluate the game on several levels, balancing things out etc. and I consider the physics as a important part of the visuals.

Right, but it's a question of planning for those things. I mean before 3D Realms acquired Meqon they'd got plenty of physics-based gameplay code. They just couldn't run it at a decent speed. The history of DNF's development has been "we want to do this, but we can't so lets update the engine". I would say when Meqon got hooked in the team knew exactly what they were going to use it for.

And in terms of speed, Meqon seems to be on par with UE3's physics engine. George said after switching they could simulate 200 barrels (as opposed to 10 or 20) before, and Sweeney said after switching they could simulate 200 boulders! So it's really a question of 3D Realms' vision vs. Epic's vision.

Anyway .. it has been interesting reading for sure and maybe you have even given me some hope

That's cool, and that was really the only intention. Uncertainty is kind of abstract because in the end there's only one outcome - DNF will be released or it won't, and whatever the outcome is it will have been inevitable anyway.

I don't see my arguments as superiour compared to yours or anything, but the whole situation just leaves me with a different feeling. Maybe because what I see in my world is that bad project management (I know .. you disagree) has a far bigger influence on the final product than good intentions.

If DNF had been funded by a publisher it would have been released in an extremely buggy state or it would have been cancelled. So the way I look at it is that DNF has already failed, but it's going to be getting another chance.

I have faith that people can learn from their mistakes, and I think that 3D Realms' ambition is their greatest strength as well as their greatest weakness.

But what do you expect and what would satisfy you?

For me an important matter is that it is a .. damn .. don't know the word in english .. but maybe a very balanced game in terms of gameplay, story graphics and everything. Like a "welcome to the world of Duke Nukem" feeling. "Beyound good and evil" had it. For me HL2 didn't even if it was a great game with many memorable moments .. know what I mean?

Perhaps you mean the game should be very cohesive - everything should fit together, to create a certain style. That what I get from the Beyond Good & Evil comparison. I agree, and I think that's what makes a classic game: everything just feels right, and it doesn't make sense to say "this should have been done differently" because that's just how the game is. It's like proposing improvements to the first Star Wars trilogy!

In my eyes Half-Life is perfect, even though it isn't really. As soon as someone says that some feature/level/scenario should have been done better in Half-Life, I think "but that wouldn't be Half-Life".

So yes, I hope DNF is a classic, something I look back upon and am perfectly happy with. But I'd be satisfied with an an accomplished action experience. My specific expectations are that DNF will have really great 'cinematic' action - bikes, jet skis, fighter jets, alien craft, collapsing buildings, orbital bombardment to name a few things from the E3 2001 video. So many of the kick ass scenes from the E3 video haven't been done by any other FPS since. Where is my bike ride? Where is my runaway mine car?

In addition I expect really well integrated story telling - just look at the limping soldier in the E3 video, or Graves briefing you in person. Back then characters even had pupils that moved; eyes that blinked. So overall I'm looking for an action movie type experience – intense scripted sequences combined with effective storytelling.

You can expect to laugh you ass off. Humor was a big part of duke 3d single player and I hope DNF will be just as funny with a lot of hilarious movie and game parodies.

I wish more games had humor in them because I really miss it, that’s a big part of why I’ve been reading this forum off and on for years and patiently waiting for DNF to come out.

[jet jaguar 2.0]

I expect just as much or MORE environmental/prop interaction as DN3D. I expect graphics en par with the latest Unreal Engine iteration or friggin close to it. I expect water to do stuff as GB said. I expect strippers. I expect weapons worthy of a Duke Nukem game. I expect gameplay as visceral as DN3D. I expect gameplay that offers a decent degree of open-endedness. Um...that's about it.

[bokaj]

Shit .. I'll never take an discussion with this guy again
You really have been following the progress of DNF ..

[Blade Nightflame]

Thanks a lot dude, more faith in DNF now. o/!

[Malgon]

I've only read a couple of those quotes you posted FireFly, they were pretty cool since they were optimistic about the direction that the game was going in. I have faith in 3DR's having the intitiative to strive in new directions and basically try things that other developers wouldn't or take years to use. George and Co. know what they are doing with the development of DNF and I trust in them providing us with a fresh take on FPS, with a healthy dose of fun gameplay That's my opinion.

[Drewcifer]

One word: gibs.

I want my explosives to rip an enemy to bloody randomly generated shreds. But not only that, I want my conventional weapons to also rip them apart. A chaingun should be able to cut a guy in half.

A good example of gibness was Quake 2, where a split second of minigun fire would cause most enemies to explode, basically.

[Mr.Sociopath]

if I see that gibs didn't evolve since duke 3d in dnf.. I'll burn the game with acid and laugh

[Tim. Just Tim.]

what do we actually want to see out of this game?

Titties.

[DavoX]

There's nothing i want to see out of this game, but plenty of stuff i'd like to see IN it.

[Tim. Just Tim.]

About graphics being 'dated':

I wonder how much of an issue that really is these days. Or in the near future anyway. Games are approaching photo-realistic graphics. Some would say they are already there. So then how can a game really be dated? If one game is photo-realistic, how can another game look even more realistic? I know games arnt graphically perfect yet, and there will always be room for improvement, but Im saying that its not the same issue as it was 5 years ago. Back then, game B released 1 year later than game A might look twice as good. These days, game D released 1 year later than game C looks slightly better, but certainly not twice as good. Maybe it has smoother shadows and higher poly models, but not huge huge differences. I say 90% of the apperance of games these days is all in the textures anyway. If you have great artists working on the textures, you can make a pretty nice looking game even on an old engine.

I say that today, or in the near future, its not going to be about which game looks the most real. Once games look exactly like real life, there is no way to make them even more real, now is there? It will be about different styles. Maybe cell-shading for a cartoony-look, or cool black & white effects like the movie Sin City, or something else. If this is the case, there is no such thing as graphics being 'dated'. Because its not that game A cant do the same graphics as game B, but rather that game A doesnt want to do the same graphics as game B. Its not going to be about which engine uses the most polygons or which engine has the fanciest lighting algorithms. Its going to be about which game has the best, most detailed levels, and which game has the coolest weapons. In a world like this, engines wont be dated. In fact, the longer you take making the game content, the better!

Either way you cut it, DNF is not going to look 'dated'. Isnt that exacly why they keep starting over? The game is either going to look ****ing awesome, or its not going to come out at all.