DEATHWALK nonsense!!!

[Draco]

If there wasn't deathwalk, then there would be people whining that they have to redo half the level everytime they die.

Have people ever whined that they had to redo sections of a game once they've died? Nope.

Defenders of Deathwalk: Is there a consequence (an action that has the potential of preventing the player from beating the game) to losing all your health in Prey?

[FrozeN91]

Komb.at: "For the guys who don't like it: what's stopping you from just reloading the last savegame when you die/enter deathwalk? nothing eh? problem solved..."

That's what I thought when I read all this..

As for me: I like deathwalking because it keeps me from saving all the time

[Komb.at]

Originally Posted by Draco

Defenders of Deathwalk: Is there a consequence (an action that has the potential of preventing the player from beating the game) to losing all your health in Prey?

nope, but there ain't one without deathwalk either. Just reload the game and you're good to go

The amount of consequence without deathwalk is just measured by the number of quicksaves you do.

[0marTheZealot]

A good autosave system would render Deathwalk unnecessary. At the most, you'll lose 3-4 minutes of playing time, but it'll make you value your life far more. The worst part is that Prey isn't even that difficult to warrant deathwalk (should have been in FarCry if you ask me). Prey is even easier than HL2 is on hard (which is a pretty easy game too ).

No one whines about having to reload in any game. That's way it's been since Catacomb 3D. It's like whining water is too wet. However, save systems have progressed since Catacomb 3D. Having a well-implemented autosave system is far better than Deathwalk. Chronicles of Riddick and HL2 are good examples of autosave systems. At most, a death will cost you 3-4 minutes and still feel like a penalty. In Prey, Death is a reward. Come back, at the minimum, half health, half spirit and have a 3-4 second jump on the AI? There's no need to think strategically, to aim, to be conservative, to do anything. I mean if we are the point in gaming where we have to reward bad playing, we might as well make enemies 1hp, you have auto-aiming weapons and infinite life. Deathwalk is a cheatcode, but put in by the developers without the option to remove it.

The entire discussion about having casual players being able to beat the game is nonsense. There's a reason why most games have selectable difficulties (easy, medium, hard). With Prey, there's none of that. Functionally, there is no difference between having infinite health and deathwalk. If you want players to finish your game, make it compelling, fair and fun (which Prey is). That kind of argument is non-sensical. People have finished tens of thousands of games just fine without the need for a massive crutch like Deathwalk. Would beating Contra be as satisfying if you had infinite lives? There's no true sense of accomplishment in beating Prey, simply because a monkey could finish Prey.

As for people saying that if you don't like Deathwalk, just QS/RL like before. Let me ask you, if you don't like tap water, do you go straight to the Lake to drink? Deathwalk is there, the mere presence of it will render quicksave/reloading useless.

[d3ad connection]

Originally Posted by 0marTheZealot

There's no true sense of accomplishment in beating Prey

I certainly felt good when finishing it, and I'm still replaying it.

[Denz]

Actually, the experience of the game is much better when the flow of it is continuous. I hated SOF2 at some part because i had to fastsave too much. I completly stopped Mafia because of that.

[0marTheZealot]

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

I certainly felt good when finishing it, and I'm still replaying it.

Do you also feel good when you tie your shoelaces?

It felt good to beat Prey for the story and seeing what the developers could think of, but it was certainly no challenge at all.

[elsenator]

Originally Posted by Draco

Have people ever whined that they had to redo sections of a game once they've died? Nope.

Defenders of Deathwalk: Is there a consequence (an action that has the potential of preventing the player from beating the game) to losing all your health in Prey?

To me, a game is not about having consenquences for your actions. It's about having fun and being immersed. Deathwalk is an immensely clever way of giving everyone what they want. You want to reload when you die? You can do that. You want to run guns blasting into every room and die a couple times while doing so? You can do that. You want to play tactically, and hide behind boxes and walls, and use death walk to keep the game flowing? You can do that too!

I see no let downs, unless you plain and simply lack the self-persistency to not use it, if you don't like it.

It's all up to the individual player.

[d3ad connection]

Originally Posted by 0marTheZealot

Do you also feel good when you tie your shoelaces?

It felt good to beat Prey for the story and seeing what the developers could think of, but it was certainly no challenge at all.

It was a challenge to me.
And yes, I do feel good when I tie my shoes.

[Gatinater]

Originally Posted by sgt Boundford

Why are people under the illusion that the deathwalk makes the game easier?? If you end up having to do the deathwalk then your crap, the game IS too hard for you! WHY? because you just been killed you plebs!!

Yeah, so you can suck and never lose because of it. I don't use quick save.

[Aegeri]

Originally Posted by 0marTheZealot

Do you also feel good when you tie your shoelaces?

It felt good to beat Prey for the story and seeing what the developers could think of, but it was certainly no challenge at all.

Dead has a point though Omar, some people aren't in it for being challenged or to have insane firefights or similar. A lot of people like the theme of the game, the general wierdness of the aliens and the plot/story. These people are going to have a great time and the difficulty won't be an issue.

The problem is 3dr/HH went too far in the opposite direction and those of us who like their games to be a challenge [as evidentally I am], can't because the game has been made ridiculously easy. The problem is there isn't any way to change that inherit difficulty.

[Wolle]

Originally Posted by Komb.at

nope, but there ain't one without deathwalk either. Just reload the game and you're good to go

But you're still left with the problem of how to defeat that boss. With deathwalk all you need is a pipe wrench and a lot of patience. You can whittle him down.

In other shooters, I'm on edge when I fight. In Prey, I just don't care as much about it all.

[Draco]

Originally Posted by Komb.at

nope

Thank you for conceding.

A good autosave system would render Deathwalk unnecessary.

There is a good autosave system in Prey.

Originally Posted by elsenator

'No' in a long-winded way

Thank you for conceding.

[Damien_Azreal]

Ya know, it's sad to see everyone complaining over such a feature.

All anyone did with games was complain that they died and had to quickload an old save, then they had to replay so much to get back to where they were.
Now, a developer comes up with a very way to get around that problem and poeople complain about that as well. Saying it makes the game to damn easy.

Ya know, there's nothing stopping you from quick saving every now and then. And when you die, hit Escape and go to the menu and reload your old save game. Simple and takes as much effort as it did in games like Doom 3 and HL2.

The people complaining about this feature are the same people complaining about Far Cry's check point save system. Either it's to hard or it's to easy.

[elsenator]

Originally Posted by Draco

Thank you for conceding.

I do not concede. I think death walk is a great way to keep the game flowing with no reload interruptions.

[d3ad connection]

I don't see why we're arguing about this... I don't think they are going to change it, seeing as it's a major feature of Prey.

[0marTheZealot]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

Ya know, it's sad to see everyone complaining over such a feature.

All anyone did with games was complain that they died and had to quickload an old save, then they had to replay so much to get back to where they were.
Now, a developer comes up with a very way to get around that problem and poeople complain about that as well. Saying it makes the game to damn easy.

Ya know, there's nothing stopping you from quick saving every now and then. And when you die, hit Escape and go to the menu and reload your old save game. Simple and takes as much effort as it did in games like Doom 3 and HL2.

The people complaining about this feature are the same people complaining about Far Cry's check point save system. Either it's to hard or it's to easy.

Well, FC's system was great, but the real problem was that FC worked it's best to beat the player instead of entertaining the player. Rocket launcher snipers @ 800 meters are not fun, no matter what anyone says. If FC was properly balanced, the checkpoint system would definately not have been lampooned as it was.

[0marTheZealot]

Originally Posted by Draco

There is a good autosave system in Prey.

ah I didn't notice, probably because I beat the game in two sessions and because of deathwalk

[d3ad connection]

You didn't notice how sometimes the game pauses for a sec, then displays "Game saved." at the top?

[Draco]

Originally Posted by elsenator

I do not concede.

Yet, you did so, by not showing me any consequences of death in Prey.

[Damien_Azreal]

And how do you get consequences of death in a game that you can quick save every ten seconds?

It's a pointless arguement. Just because you don't like Death Walking doens't mean other's will go along with you just because you make a point or two.

Discussing "consequences" of death in a video game? This isn't real people... so death in any game is pretty much without consequence.

[d3ad connection]

Could a mod lock this? It's not going to change anytime soon.

[Parkar]

I am thinking games should start having two modes, causal(easy) gaming and challenge(hard) gaming. Kind of like the old difficulty system but with the difference that difficulty is not locked.

The downside with the old system is that there is no way to realy know which one is for you and you may end up having to restart cause it got to easy or to hard and for some even the easiest setting is to hard to finish the game.

The downside with the newer games using ADD, deathwalk and other things to help keep players from having to reload is that hardcore players don't find any challenge in the game.

The problem with just one difficulty is that how ever good a ADD system is it can't know how big of a challenge a player wants.

As for deathwalk, I think it's a good idea but I would like to get set back just a bit like restoring the enemies health while being away. I wan't to feel like I need to do a bit of a comeback after getting killed as that would give me a more satisfying experience once I get back on the enemy that killed me.

[Damien_Azreal]

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

Could a mod lock this? It's not going to change anytime soon.

You could suggest this thread being locked by clicking on the "Notify Moderater" button under somebodies post... but it's pointless.

Close this thread and another will be made shortly after.

[Aegeri]

The downside with the newer games using ADD, deathwalk and other things to help keep players from having to reload is that hardcore players don't find any challenge in the game.

I hate to bring it up again, but Sin: Episodes uses an ADD system and it works magnificiently. I found the difficulty just right and I could make it completely insane if I felt like it. Sin catered for players who weren't terribly good, through large amounts of assistance and little modification to AI challenge or for the masochist in the opposite direction.

[Wolle]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

The people complaining about this feature are the same people complaining about Far Cry's check point save system. Either it's to hard or it's to easy.

That one game is too hard, doesn't mean that another can't be too easy.

I can see what the designers are trying to do, and it has good points, but I'm just saying it comes at a price. I think the feature would be closer to quick save if it was implemented more like this suggestion:
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19861

[Parkar]

Originally Posted by Aegeri

I hate to bring it up again, but Sin: Episodes uses an ADD system and it works magnificiently. I found the difficulty just right and I could make it completely insane if I felt like it. Sin catered for players who weren't terribly good, through large amounts of assistance and little modification to AI challenge or for the masochist in the opposite direction.

It also kind of implemeted what I meant as you could sett the challenge you wanted.

[Razzuel]

I am a fan of challenging games, such as Ninja Gaiden which got extremely difficult (Alma anyone? I almost lost my sanity trying to beat her). This game wasn't meant to be a challenge in the first place though. Prey was built around its story and its crazy portals, gravity, etc., so by adding Deathwalk the player is constantly with the flow of the game and the immersion doesn't break, which is what I think Human Head was aiming for.

If you want some real challenge, put up some rules outside of the game and do your best to stick with them.

"-GOSH IT'S LIKE GODMODE ENABLED BY DEFAULT!" Just turn it off you bozo. Below 50 health? Reload. Or how about one shot = kill? Probably beefs it up. The fact that the game doesn't toss you out to desktop and stick a firecracker up your ass doesn't mean that you can't set your own restraints. In fact, anything else would be weak, like cheating in games from the start, or this complaint bonanza.

[jAkUp]

I think Deathwalk is a pretty cool idea. It keeps you in the game, never having to reload, etc.

I do kinda agree that it makes dieing less of a penalty, but I am glad somebody did something different for ****s sake.

[MegaMustaine]

Problem is that the game is already 5 hours long max, and with death walk, that is the game time, doesn't count in anything else. No more getting ten hours out of a five hour game. I just can't justify spending 50 dollars on a virtual movie. What the hell happened to extra crispy mode, and sweet level design? Damn I miss 1997.

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

Problem is that the game is already 5 hours long max, and with death walk, that is the game time, doesn't count in anything else. No more getting ten hours out of a five hour game. I just can't justify spending 50 dollars on a virtual movie. What the hell happened to extra crispy mode, and sweet level design? Damn I miss 1997.

It was 6 and half to 7 hours for me if you count the end boss fight and the end sequence (which I do, its part of the game). You didn't like the level design? I thought for once they had managed to make a spaceship interesting....not just generic corridors.

[Pengu]

Farcry's system is good, it would've been better had it gave players the option to use 1 save per level. Then again I can can really only remember moments of frustration in that game on 2 accounts. Still it gave you a good challenge and forced you to really plan out what you did.
To people that say that you should reload if you die if you don't like it. We shouldn't have to make the game artificially harder to play it. They could have done many things to make deathwalk work. Such as give all the enemies their health back, or Require a certain amount of spirit to use or you die. Instead by default godmode is turned on, with no way to turn it off. I judge a game by how its presented, not how its presented after being modified.

just trying to get the point of the argument...

Deathwalking makes the game easy as you die a lot - respawn and finish kicking aliens asses, as aliens do not regenerate..

Doesn't the fact that you die a lot indicates that game is not that easy?

Just trying to understand.

And to those who went trought the game. Is there any point in the game where you HAVE to die to get further?
NO spoilers pls - just a yes or no

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Razamanaz

And to those who went trought the game. Is there any point in the game where you HAVE to die to get further?
NO spoilers pls - just a yes or no

Nope.

[Adabiviak]

Am I actually hearing people complain about a feature of the game that they have a choice not to use? If Deathwalk isn't for you, use quicksave. If the brief period of invulnerability after Deathwalk isn't for you, when you plop down behind the bad guy, get his attention before beginning the fight. In fact, you can use this time to customize how to handle the situation. You can take advantage of the surprise to attack, retreat to a better position, or take no advantage of it, equip the wrench, and step up. It's like complaining about the quicksave feature in a regular game - who's stopping you from not using it?

[Jito463]

Here's an idea to shut up the whiners, just make a patch that allows them to turn on/off deathwalk. All this complaining over what is essentially nothing. Sheesh.

[9Nails]

Originally Posted by Razamanaz

just trying to get the point of the argument...

Deathwalking makes the game easy as you die a lot - respawn and finish kicking aliens asses, as aliens do not regenerate..

Doesn't the fact that you die a lot indicates that game is not that easy?

Just trying to understand.

And to those who went trought the game. Is there any point in the game where you HAVE to die to get further?
NO spoilers pls - just a yes or no

Yes!

Avatar, what about the demo... When you die in the demo, you're taken to the spirit world and learn your Cherokee tools for the game.

When Far-Cry came out, people complained about the ending levels.
When Doom 3 came out, people complained about it being too dark.
When Half-Life 2 came out, people complained about Citidel and ending levels.
In other words, read my sig:

[George Broussard]

If you dislike DeathWalk, don't use it When you die, press F9 to load your last saved game. Done

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by 9Nails

Avatar, what about the demo... When you die in the demo, you're taken to the spirit world and learn your Cherokee tools for the game.

Thats technically not dying. By death I assumed he meant entering the death realm. You can logically finish the entire game without actually entering deathwalk mode.