Does Duke Nukem Even Matter Anymore?

[Firstperson]

Originally Posted by HazMat

WTF? lol thats funny but shit man get it right, I am 33!

bad joke but my girlfriend thinks its funny

I'll be 37 this march!!

[Danule]

Originally Posted by Denz

i mean it was pretty much interactive and had new stuff in it right. Put aside the length of the game of course

the interaction on the first map was great, the game went downhill fast from there in my opinion from weak enemy ai to lame weapons, i hope prey is nothing like duke nukem.

[rockmanekuzu8]

You all know better:

ALWAYS BET ON DUKE!! DUKE IS KING, DUKE ROCKS!! You guys know better forget the rest, mess with the best be shocked like the rest.

DUKE IS GOING TO KICK SO MUCH ASS, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FUNNY. DUKE IS GOING TO MAKE ONE BAD ASS RETURN, THAT WE WILL BE CHEERING WHEN WE SEE THE NEXT TRAILER. STAY TUNED...

AND 3DR please put the TRAILER in the Theaters so I can say to everyone in their face, F$$K HALO. Hail to the return of the King, DUKE is back and he is going to KICK ASS like never before.

[Betelgeuse]

Given that there’s still no release date in sight maybe it’s time for 3D Realms to cut their losses and move on.

When It's Done! take it or leave it Mr. Husemann

[rockmanekuzu8]

It's should release this year or by March of 2009 for sure, just have some more patience. When it's done is about to turn into a release date this year, when they announce it in the Trailer.

[Minty]

I don't really see why this is an issue. The onyl reason "gaming has moved on since" is because developers dont make fun games like they used to, im sure many people still want fun games and will buy them if devs make them.

Then again, EA make shit games and people still buy them.......I'm confused

Point is, I cant wait for DNF to come out, I have had a truly fun FPS game since the 90s with the likes of Blood, D3D, Shadow Warrior.
The kind of games that didnt take themselves too seriously. These games had main characters that actually TALKED! and that added a lot of fun and humour for me, Not some mute like Gordon "....." Freeman who doesnt car what situation hes in from being chased by antlions or having Alyx coming onto him.
/Rant over

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by mysteryperfecta

But to dismiss him outright, based on a point you don't seem to have bothered to understand, is intellectually lazy. Bad form.

Well, the HL2 article does contradict his basic criticism of DNF.
Essentially, his point about HL2 is that execution is more import than premise.
So by that logic, if DNF's premise isn't all that promising, the outcome still depends on how the folks at 3DR mesh all of the design elements together into a game.

In this case, the title of the article is more interesting than the content.

I hate to say it but I don't care about Duke Nukem Forever anymore.... as much as it may be good (and by may I mean 'may' on the off chance that by the time it's nearing completion - Unreal engine v5 will probably be released and 3DRealms will cancel it to update the textures, models etc... like they did about 6 years ago).

I used to be a great Duke fan and built all sorts of maps with the Duke3D Engine.... and played the game monotonously....

but 3DRealms have done pretty much NEXT TO nothing except release a crappy teaser trailer which shows very little of the game... in the last 5 years to try and sustain appeal to the game.

I simply... and sadly enough... don't care about Duke anymore. Sorry to those who may think its blasphemous... you can try praying to god that I may change my mind... but I don't think it will happen.

[evanazzo]

Originally Posted by Piano Man

I hate to say it but I don't care about Duke Nukem Forever anymore.... as much as it may be good (and by may I mean 'may' on the off chance that by the time it's nearing completion - Unreal engine v5 will probably be released and 3DRealms will cancel it to update the textures, models etc... like they did about 6 years ago).

I used to be a great Duke fan and built all sorts of maps with the Duke3D Engine.... and played the game monotonously....

but 3DRealms have done pretty much NEXT TO nothing except release a crappy teaser trailer which shows very little of the game... in the last 5 years to try and sustain appeal to the game.

I simply... and sadly enough... don't care about Duke anymore. Sorry to those who may think its blasphemous... you can try praying to god that I may change my mind... but I don't think it will happen.

i don't think they'll use the new engine. the current engine there on has been so heavily modified its practically a new engine. but what do i know you could be right

[bokaj]

Originally Posted by Firstperson

I'll be 37 this march!!

Well, thats the only good thing about the long development time. Not so many 10 years old boys spamming the forum.

I disagree...

How is efficiency measured? In financial or business terms?

What i see here is the individuality and the passion of Broussard to make a fun and original game and not the investment of a cold and faceless international company (like EA..).

Because GB loves what he does.No doubt on that.And that's what makes Duke Nukem matter.And that's what makes Duke special and different from any other game out there imo.

.. Love is put into many games and doesn't make DNF special at all. And no matter how efficiency is measured it has not been a part of the DNF development. About 8 years have been WASTED and it has nothing to do with passion and love .. just bad project planning.
Of course if DNF turns out to be like a 40 hours top quality "4 games in 1" I will eat my words .. but really .. 3DRealms have already admitted this several times.

Just give us a fun game in the DN universe and doesn't have to be taht special or original!

[Monkey Butler]

The point I was trying to make has been borne out by the responses in this thread:

ALWAYS BET ON DUKE!! DUKE IS KING, DUKE ROCKS!! You guys know better forget the rest, mess with the best be shocked like the rest.

DUKE IS GOING TO KICK SO MUCH ASS, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FUNNY. DUKE IS GOING TO MAKE ONE BAD ASS RETURN, THAT WE WILL BE CHEERING WHEN WE SEE THE NEXT TRAILER. STAY TUNED...

The author knows just as much about the game as us, and yet the above quote is seen as less "clueless" than his opinion, simply because the quote is positive towards the game, with nothing more than blind faith and a decade-old game to go on. Fact is, we have next to no information about the game, so it could just as easily be the second coming as another Daikatana. The author makes the assumption, or argues the toss, that DNF will for the most part be similar to DN3D. He admits that he was wrong with HL/HL2, but surely the progression from HL to HL2 is the exception, not the rule. It's entirely possible that a DN3D rehash wouldn't work nowadays, and it's just as possible, given the information we have, that that's exactly what DNF will be.

And it doesn't instill confidence in 3DR when their response to this article, and others (not that one was needed) is a snide and childish "nyargh, nyargh, you're wrong and I didn't even read the whole thing because you were so wrong from the start".

[Kalki]

Originally Posted by Piano Man

but 3DRealms have done pretty much NEXT TO nothing except release a crappy teaser trailer which shows very little of the game... in the last 5 years to try and sustain appeal to the game.

Irrelevant. Either you're still a fan of the genre or you're not. Only during/after release do you really judge whether you want to buy a game or not.

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

The author knows just as much about the game as us, and yet the above quote is seen as less "clueless" than his opinion, simply because the quote is positive towards the game, with nothing more than blind faith and a decade-old game to go on.

Was that post previously acknowledged by anyone else here for that assumption to be made? This is a thread created to discuss the article written about DNF on a gaming site, which due to its nature makes it open for critique. Somebody's opinions on a fan-based board aren't up for debate. Not that it's relevant but fans are questioned for the more gushy topics made here.

[WoodenSword]

Originally Posted by bokaj

.. Love is put into many games and doesn't make DNF special at all. And no matter how efficiency is measured it has not been a part of the DNF development. About 8 years have been WASTED and it has nothing to do with passion and love .. just bad project planning.
Of course if DNF turns out to be like a 40 hours top quality "4 games in 1" I will eat my words .. but really .. 3DRealms have already admitted this several times.

Just give us a fun game in the DN universe and doesn't have to be taht special or original!

I am not a hardcore duke nukem fan but i can't ignore the fact that GB's emotional attachment to the game is unprecedented (as far as i can tell - maybe there are other similar cases i don't know about).

So imo we can't measure efficiency until we see the final game.In our everyday job when we see potential improvements to our work we say...let it be...the deadline is soon. But GB said don't "let it be".Let's make the game great.Is this really bad project planning?....maybe.....i don't know

Why 8 years of storytelling,3d modelling,characters,dialogues,interactivity ideas,multiplayer ideas,already tested and evaluated ideas,ideas,ideas..... are completely wasted? I really can't understand that.

Indeed 3d realms themselves say that they made a mistake, and this is really only a 2 -4 year project, in an attempt to downsize the already over-the-top hype.

Originally Posted by bokaj

Just give us a fun game in the DN universe and doesn't have to be taht special or original!

Amen to that!!

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Kalki

Somebody's opinions on a fan-based board aren't up for debate.

Of course they are.

Also, from the Rules of Conduct:

Use The 3D Realms Message Boards' features in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other users (e.g., excessive shouting [use of all caps] or flooding [continuous posting of repetitive text or topics]).

[LarsBM]

Articles like that are just made because the writer is angry about the long wait. Duke is gonna kick ass, thats one of the universal laws of physics.

[X-Vector]

I don't the author is angry, just lazy.

[Deftones]

His article just trolled every one.

[mysteryperfecta]

Originally Posted by X-Vector

Well, the HL2 article does contradict his basic criticism of DNF.

I didn't defend his basic criticisms of DNF. I just said that dismissing his DNF article based on the title of a previous article, a question posed and explored and answered appropriately (yes, HL2 still mattered) was intellectually lazy. It was automatically assumed that the author argues that HL2 did NOT matter anymore.

There are legitimate concerns about the ramifications of the delays that can be raised. But there aren't really any concrete conclusions one can legitimately come to. As I said, the task is pretty futile at this point. In fact, I don't even think we can quantify it until AFTER the game is released. Better to ask the question in a post mortem.

[HazMat]

this game will have to come with a BJ to please everyone. Even then i am sure alot of these lame ass reviewers will piss on it.

[Kalki]

You can't please everyone and in trying to do so you may end up not pleasing anybody. Instead please yourself and do what you believe in. If worthy, it could be appreciated. Those who want to bitch about something always will. But true quality usually tends to out, whether it's rewarded or not is another matter.

Originally Posted by X-Vector

Of course they are.

Not in the same way. I was referring to game site articles being a topic of debate in the context of this thread, which can't really be compared to some random comment from here that came in response to it. There's a hierarchical delineation between what an article presumes to do and what a reply-comment on it does; the same as between an op-ed piece and an opinion. The former strives to be published, to be known in a larger sense. I wouldn't start a new thread just to debate your reply quoting me, would I? I would rather take it to pm.

[Unbeholder]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Would that really be so hard to believe? I don't expect Duke to be some innovative world changing game. All I need is Duke, some interactivity on the level of Duke3D and throw in a few of those "holy shit" moments from the old trailers. It doesn't need to be the second coming.

though for me it will be.. it will be like the second coming of Jesus

[Unbeholder]

Originally Posted by Minty

Then again, EA make shit games and people still buy them.......I'm confused

shit games for the people who have higher tastes in games... but its actually really good games for the general public. because the general public are a bunch of idiotic teenage goofs who never ever will get a job and live of society like a cancer.

[Zombie_Boy]

Its only natural that duke doesn't matter now, since its still in development and we haven't had anything really concerete outside of a teaser video.

Only when is Duke3d released will it matter.

[Bushido]

Does Duke Nukem Even Matter Anymore?

Yes...

[Danule]

the sims is a good game, so is crysis, and the need for speed. i don't get your EA makes shitty games thing. they don't even MAKE the god damn games.

[LarsBM]

Originally Posted by Unbeholder

though for me it will be.. it will be like the second coming of Jesus

More like the second coming of Thor!

[Alexander]

Is it really necessary to chew on the same subject over and over again?
Pretty silly actually... Reminds me of the fact that, when 1 guy hits a forum and leaves a post about how he can't wait to play DNF, 1000 people flame the shit out of the thread by trying to prove DNF doesn't exist.... Same funny stuff...

Let's just wait and see what 3DR will bring us .

Besides, why compare DNF with other games? I can't recall ANY game pulling off the same "dynamic environment" like this one. HL2 only has a handful of interactivity... We just have to wait a liiiitle longer ... At least I hope!

[Detharin]

I wanted to add this, may not be the right place, but frankly one of the major reasons im looking forward to DNF is the fact that we have a main character. Lets look at HL2, the silent protagonist who never says a word saves the day. Frankly im sick of the silent protagonist. Im waiting for the Gordon/Alyx make out session that somehow is supposed to be emotionally charged when i havnt said a single word to the woman, ever.

Or almost as bad. look at Sin: Emergence. They had an existing character, who liked to utter dukish one liners and yet he was mostly silent through the first game. Even had a incredibly sexy antagonist to play off of. There could have been so much more with her piping in the taunt him and him actually responding with double entendres and witty comebacks.

Take Half Life 2. Now imagine the first time you bring down a strider, now factor in Duke saying "Suck my rocket you alien freak" or something witty of your choice. Think of all the really great moments in Half life, or Fear, or any really good recent faceless hero FPS. Now add duke, with his humor, one liners, and attitude and to me it just sounds more fun.

Plus, cutscenes. We all remember how great is was in Duke3d when he threatened to rip the bosses head off and shit down his neck. Then we get a cutscene where he actually does it. That was incredible to me the first time i played it. Now imagine that fight with freeman, there would be no threats, and no cutscene. Just one more enemy to kill with maybe thanks from the girl you wont give the time of day, or some scientist.

Frankly, id love to see Duke Nukem beat some answers out of the G-Man.

My point? Duke Nukem is relevent for many reasons, not the least of which is that its moving back toward character driven FPS, which aside from Prey, Halo, and a few others have been largely ignored.

[Alexander]

Is it really necessary to chew on the same subject over and over again?
Pretty silly actually... Reminds me of the fact that, when 1 guy hits a forum and leaves a post about how he can't wait to play DNF, 1000 people flame the shit out of the thread by trying to prove DNF doesn't exist.... Same funny stuff...

Let's just wait and see what 3DR will bring us .

Besides, why compare DNF with other games? I can't recall ANY game pulling off the same "dynamic environment" like this one. HL2 only has a handful of interactivity... We just have to wait a liiiitle longer ... At least I hope!

[Mr. Crow]

Of course it does matter! We're all waiting for the game, and at least I am sure it will kick ass... And I totaly agree with the person who said that Bioshock is incredibly overrated!

[IHerman]

DNF will make profit just like any other decent game. Yes, the long development time will have an influence on the actual profit, but DNF will bring 3DR back on track.

It's not going to be some holy game to rule all others, but any good game will have it's place.

...

Not sure if any game these days will have the same impact as they used to though. Bioshock was a kickass game, but it doesn't have the same influence Doom or Duke3D ever had.

To me no game really matters, it's all temporary, hopefully DNF will remind me of the old Duke3D days.

[RAW]

You know what is good , is to see everyone here to voice their opinions about duke , means your all still interested which is great , and i feel comfortable the game will be awesome because george never let it die which if he didnt accually think of duke as his own he would have let it go a long time ago. He knows this has to be over the top which is why its taken so long.people weve come to far to give up now , the long haul is almost over

[jagguar20]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Would that really be so hard to believe? I don't expect Duke to be some innovative world changing game. All I need is Duke, some interactivity on the level of Duke3D and throw in a few of those "holy shit" moments from the old trailers. It doesn't need to be the second coming.

You speak the thruth!

[rockmanekuzu8]

Originally Posted by IHerman

DNF will make profit just like any other decent game. Yes, the long development time will have an influence on the actual profit, but DNF will bring 3DR back on track.

It's not going to be some holy game to rule all others, but any good game will have it's place.

...

Not sure if any game these days will have the same impact as they used to though. Bioshock was a kickass game, but it doesn't have the same influence Doom or Duke3D ever had.

To me no game really matters, it's all temporary, hopefully DNF will remind me of the old Duke3D days.

Dude DNF will rule over sales more than any decent game, and will be competitve with Halo 3 most likely or better. I'm only assuming this. Stay Tuned, then we can decide.

[Unbeholder]

Originally Posted by Alexander

Is it really necessary to chew on the same subject over and over again?

you obviously haven't been here for the past 9 years. otherwise you would know thats pretty much what we do here.

[Thriller]

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

The point I was trying to make has been borne out by the responses in this thread:

I dont think you get it really. The faith and hope is based on potential. Calling that "blind" faith is clueless, as its not blind. George B. and 3DR/Apogee has a great history to go by, along with the more recent produced titles Prey/Max Payne.

Anyone that thinks 3DR are making a "Duke3D 2" hasnt been listening to what they have been saying for the past 7-8 years. So again, thinking they are making a "Duke 3D 2" is clueless as it just means someone has formed an opinion without looking at the facts.

Thinking it will be a success is rather a pretty solid assumption as pretty much anything 3DR ever touched turned out great. The fact that a good game like Manhattan Project is seen as somewhat of a faliure says it all really. Add to that, they never did anything as ambitious as DNF.

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Thriller

I dont think you get it really. The faith and hope is based on potential. Calling that "blind" faith is clueless, as its not blind. George B. and 3DR/Apogee has a great history to go by, along with the more recent produced titles Prey/Max Payne.

Just because could people disagree with your view on 3DR's past output doesn't mean they don't get it.
To me personally Duke3D is the one great game that this company has developed, it's the reason I became interested in DNF and why I registered here.
Duke3D happened 12 years ago though and the people that made the game are almost all absent from the current personnel roster, so I don't see it as a solid base for DNF related faith anymore.

Max Payne was a good, though repetitive game that I enjoyed playing rather than replaying and Prey turned out as a product of decent quality with some nice ideas but without any staying power whatsoever, a single blip on the radar of gaming history.
However, neither of these titles were developed by 3DR, so I don't see how they could be used as 'evidence' even if you have a more positive (or negative) view of them than I do.

Add to that, they never did anything as ambitious as DNF.

That has been the major problem all along, hasn't it?
Perhaps not anymore though:

Scott: First, we fully admit we’re screwed up the development of DNF, and it’s now an industry joke. I laugh (and cry) when I think about it, too. Our fault is that we set the bar too high, and we tried too hard to make the game to beat all games. In the last 18 months we’ve taken a much more realistic look at the project, we’ve hired a truckload of experienced help, and I personally believe we are now on the right track…finally.

This next quote from the same interview is something that I agree with but that seems to contradict some of his commentary elsewhere about the importance of having a strong brand:

As for the question of Duke’s lasting appeal, I believe strongly that it doesn’t matter at all. DNF will succeed or fail not because of the Duke brand, but solely based on whether the game is great, or not. The original Duke Nukem 3D didn’t have a large fan following, and yet it succeeded. DNF will have to stand on its own just the same.

Source for both quotes: http://www.yougamers.com/articles/18...be_king-page4/

To me, the attraction of Duke3D has never really been the Duke character.
Sure, he was a stand-out from other FPS personas of the time and some of the 'borrowed' one-liners are great in context, but in the end it's the combination of level design, artwork, soundscape, music and gadgets that made the game great (and still does).

Thinking it will be a success is rather a pretty solid assumption as pretty much anything 3DR ever touched turned out great.

To iterate Scott Miller: DNF will have to stand on its own.

[Thriller]

Originally Posted by X-Vector

Just because could people disagree with your view on 3DR's past output doesn't mean they don't get it.

If I understood Monkey Butler correct, his point was that the people in here who would like to call the author clueless are clueless themselves in that they dont know anything about DNF either, only bashing the author with "blind faith". And I diasgree with that. I´d say the majority of people here (atleast so called "fan boys") have been around long enough to hear 3DR go on about DNF beeing a separate game from Duke3D. My intepretation is that the author has not, and thus he would actually be 'clueless' atleast relative to this crowd.

Max Payne was a good, though repetitive game that I enjoyed playing rather than replaying and Prey turned out as a product of decent quality with some nice ideas but without any staying power whatsoever, a single blip on the radar of gaming history.
However, neither of these titles were developed by 3DR, so I don't see how they could be used as 'evidence' even if you have a more positive (or negative) view of them than I do.

Its hard to tell how much of a difference 3DRs input made, yes. What I know is that Max Payne woudnt have been half the game it was without the help of 3DR. Remedy has been very clear on that as well. I guess it wasnt really supposed to be the AAA title it became.

But to me that is still besides the point. My point is that 3DR hasnt let me down on a single product - only by products that never saw the light of day. My faith in DNF isnt blind, its based on the companys history. George B. is a big factor in that faith, and he is still in charge.

And no, Prey isnt my favourite game either. But it delivers what it promises (IMO), and in the end it never was (in its final incarnation) the beast DNF is.

To iterate Scott Miller: DNF will have to stand on its own.

And I agree. And I believe it will, or () get scrapped again.

[Monkey Butler]

You did understand me correctly Thriller. It certainly seems to me that although we here think we've got a firm reason for believing that DNF will be a great game (fanboys that we are) all we really have are a few promising-looking screens and a heap of promises from devs that have failed to deliver several times. When it comes down to it, the author's point and position are very valid, and yet we have here more people bashing his article than posts that claim DNF is going to be the most incredible thing ever.

[Kalki]

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

You did understand me correctly Thriller. It certainly seems to me that although we here think we've got a firm reason for believing that DNF will be a great game (fanboys that we are) all we really have are a few promising-looking screens and a heap of promises from devs that have failed to deliver several times. When it comes down to it, the author's point and position are very valid, and yet we have here more people bashing his article than posts that claim DNF is going to be the most incredible thing ever.

Adding to what Thriller said about not looking beyond Duke3D, DNF's history works both against and for it. Unless you completely overlook what they were to portray with the 1998 and 2001 videos, you can't truly say this game never had any promise nor was unable to stand on its own merits. It was never just a few screens, those videos were(and are) widely acclaimed for the game they tried to convey. Many comments on those trailers that I've read have expressed regret that DNF didn't survive to release in those forms and some go so far as to claim the 2001 trailer holds up today. Certain critics of DNF's current look even base their reasoning on far more favorable impressions of the 2001 trailer.

Just trying to shed some perspective here on the probable basis of fan reactions. I still hold they don't make an even comparison to this article in terms of scope or as subjects of discussion and aren't necessarily as backed by other fans as you're making it seem.

Also allow me to pimp the first link in my sig should you need a comprehensive reminder of what I said earlier in my first paragraph. Btw I don't make any similar claims to this amateur video's effectiveness.