Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! - Page 2

11-09-1999, 07:12 PM

EvilAsh, if you like Bruce then buy his games but let Duke be Duke.

No other Duke can Duke the way Duke does Duke. Am I making myself clear?

11-09-1999, 07:35 PM

You know what?
They ARE his lines, no matter what you think.
I’m sorry.
It’s true.

Get over it.

All you duke-lova's cant see the truth through all that RED whenever anybody has any kind of criticism. The chainsaw hand in the new screenshot? You cant tell me ANY way on earth did they just "make that up"! They ripped he and Sam Raimi off! YES he and Sam Raimi were co-collaborators just outta school when they made evil-dead. The actors in the movie were actor friends of theirs. He owns the lines, not because he was the first person to EVER say them, but because he and Sam Raimi were the first to ever use them as "one liners" in an entertainment format that was internationally distributed and copyrighted. Like Duke.
They aren’t dicks, but they also aren’t happy that Duke is using the lines (and now SIGNATURE weapons) that THEY DO have copyrighted without any kind of disclaimer, permission or credit given, let alone any mention of money.

Failed actor my ass! He is a VERY successful actor. Think about all the theater actors, and commercial actors, and exta's & crap then think about all the shows & movies he's been in and directed and the fact that he's ALWAYS busy. An actor can claim success when he no longer has to audition, but gets enough offers that he can have plenty of choice. Bruce has that. He's not Arnold, or Mel, but he's successful. Thats like saying the CEO of Yahoo is not successful where as Disney's CEO is simpley because he makes more. Nope. Sorry the world doesn’t conform to your twisted, yet seemingly dynamic opinions.

Oh and as for how you say "if you don’t like it then GET the hell outta here"...People who dont like Duke have EVERY SINGLE bit of freedom here and EVERY right that you people do. This board is hosted in the United States of America where we have this beautiful thing called Freedom of Speech. We can say whatever we please. And you can’t do a thing about it. In fact neither can 3dRealms legally I think, unless they just want to shut the board down.

So this thread, which was merely to bring attention to the fact that MANY of the new 'dukeisms' that you know, are in fact "homage" to Bruce Campbell, and Sam Raimi. It also exists to give credit to them, and express thier displeasure at having no credit given by 3D Realms.

Most of you need to lighten up, and realize that the world is much larger than you and your opinions, favorites, families, towns or even countries and that what you believe is, more often that not, fatally flawed in some basic manner.

Notice that 3D Realms has failed to comment on ANY of this???

They probably have some lawyer telling them "dont say anything, if it ever goes to court, we can claim that the ideas are original and that we had no recollection of any similarities between the two. If that doesn’t work, we can at least claim that the copyright is not applicable because its a different entertainment medium.

11-09-1999, 07:53 PM

Ok, hold up...
Whoever is saying that certain phrases belong to whoever "made them up" is on crack. It doesnt really make any sense now does it, since our spoken language is based on a set of words found, say, in a dictionary for example. Websters should be getting their asses sued if we're to follow this train of thought, for they were probably not the first people to invent all the words contained in their own dictionary. Fact is, we should all be getting sued then for using words we did not create... I know I was not the one who came up with the word "dog," for example, and I doubt it was you.
Also, to put a copyright on the use of certain words is to take away freedom of speech, and is that what we are all about?

[This message has been edited by Krayzay! (edited 11-09-1999).]

11-09-1999, 08:10 PM

Just one more thing:
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman." - Bill Clinton
Well, I didn't either, so let me say that also: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Oh, damn, I guess I should be sued for that...

11-09-1999, 08:28 PM

Just for everyone interest you can not patent or copywrite words from the english language that are used often/not spcific to something. (sory my vocab has been shit lately so bear with me).

IBM can copywrite and patent those 3 letters because they stand for something adn they use it to identify the company. Star wars can patent that because they use it a lot and identify the movie with that. if the movie was called "hail to the king baby" then they might have a court case but not realy. You cant OWN a phrase you said in the movie. And i highly doubt that those words you say he owns have never been said by anyone before.

and for the last time 3drealms IS NOT A RIPOFF COMPANY! They use it as jokes, gags, for subtle comecal enlightenment. You dont like it bring it to court, i doubt you will get far.

Btw is it iligal for me to use "alakazam" in a game? I ddint make it up and its been in a tv show nd movie before. Damn where can i get the rights...

- Logic BomB

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Dnf as forseen in the movie Tremors 2:
"ITS GOING TO BE BIG! BIIIIG!"
"Is it going to be TODAY!"

11-09-1999, 08:38 PM

Just my $.02... I first heard of the ED/DN correlation here on this very website - from a 3DR rep I believe, years ago. And you know what releasing that info did... do ya...???

It made me go out and rent (for the very first time) Evil Dead. What a great movie!!! I loved it - and I loved listening for lines that 3DR chose to use as Dukisms...

IMHO, the fact that this whole situation happened was a boon for BC and the ED camp, because my rental gave them some more business that they never would've had if I hadn't been a Duke fan...

Bad thing? I think not!

--Timster--

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Earning $$$ for surfing the web? Want to??? If so, contact me for details... ;-)

11-09-1999, 10:05 PM

"Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You know what?
They ARE his lines, no matter what you think.
I’m sorry.
It’s true.
Get over it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are the 4 lines from Duke that could be said were done in homage to AoD.

Hail to the king can be directly put on Elvis' shoulders.
Groovy - Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but this is a pretty common word correct? And was in use long before AoD as well.
Ohhh that's gotta hurt - This is a common phrase as well for when someone sees something that happens that looks painful.
Who wants some? - This was used before Ash as well. Sorry.

Now, were some of them used as a parody of Ash? Yes of course. Just like the literal thousands of other people, movies, TV shows, current events and such that were pulled into Duke. Those who are defending Bruce saying we should have asked etc... why aren't you going nuts over the references to Star Wars, Star Trek, OJ Simpson, Simpsons, Terminator, Titanic, Predator, Lethal Weapon, Dragnet, Arnold Schwarzenager (sp?), Indiana Jones, Quake, Doom... (shall I go on)?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The chainsaw hand in the new screenshot? You cant tell me ANY way on earth did they just "make that up"!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They did that in AoD? Dang it we must remove it now!

Yes, it is a parody of the one Ash uses. For some reason the concept of parody and humor is lost on some people. I guarantee there was a collective "Holy Shit that's funny!" around the world when that shot went out. People have been dying for a good old fashioned gas powered chainsaw for a while... we gave them one that also has some culture to it. What... should we have mounted it on Duke's head just so it can be original? I'll bet somewhere some person who made a movie while in college would pop up screaming that we ripped off his head mounted chainsaw. There are things that are cool, fun, and funny... that's what defines Duke and the chainsaw from AoD fit the bill. Where is the humor in a chainsaw that is held normally? Seems kinda bland doesn't it?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>He owns the lines, not because he was the first person to EVER say them, but because he and Sam Raimi were the first to ever use them as "one liners" in an entertainment format that was internationally distributed and copyrighted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't own individual lines in a movie, book, etc. End of story. There are parody laws to prevent such a thing. Nobody is going to get in trouble if they are writing a humorous book that starts off "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>We can say whatever we please. And you can’t do a thing about it. In fact neither can 3dRealms legally I think, unless they just want to shut the board down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We can delete whatever posts we so choose... that's the privledge of running your own private message board.

We try not to and certainly would never delete something like this, but it is our board so if we wanted to be *******s freedom of speech would have no bearing here. You forget that people in other countries do post here, and it's not like the Bill of Rights applies to them does it?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Most of you need to lighten up,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So does Bruce.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Notice that 3D Realms has failed to comment on ANY of this???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This subject comes up all the time and we *have* replied. For time saving sake, I'll copy and paste something that Scott Miller posted recently.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Bruce Cambell has never been considered to play Duke in the movie. Bruce and Duke are very different. When Duke was created back in 1991, he conceived as a combination of Arnold S. (the ultimate action star), with some Clint Eastwood and John Wayne thrown in. The reality is that Duke Nukem is a modern day John Wayne--the original Western Duke. Even Duke's voice is a combo of Eastwood and Wayne, and has nothing to do with Cambell other than using a three of Ash's phrases.

We also used some phrases from other movies, too. Duke is a combination of all the cool heroes we have grown up with here at 3D Realms. So sue us! ;-) Most of Duke's 100+ phrases in Duke 3D are original, though.

I've never understood why Cambell is so put off by Duke, other than he feels spited that we didn't ask him to do Duke's voice, and we haven't talked to him about doing the movie -- that's because he's not the right actor for either role. Duke is not Ash, and therefore Duke is not Bruce Cambell. End of story.

Scott Miller<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We *have* addressed this issue several times, and every time it's always the same answer. The things pulled from AoD were 2-3 lines on purpose, but when you are talking about over a hundred lines of dialog, and hundreds and hundreds of references to other actors, movies, public figures, etc... doesn't it seem rather silly to get into such a frenzy over this one?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>They probably have some lawyer telling them "dont say anything, if it ever goes to court, we can claim that the ideas are original and that we had no recollection of any similarities between the two. If that doesn’t work, we can at least claim that the copyright is not applicable because its a different entertainment medium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We don't have to worry about anything because we haven't done anything wrong. There are laws in place to protect against such abusrd things, so please learn what is and isn't allowed in entertainment mediums before getting bent out of shape and assuming we are trying to hide behind things.

For reference, here is a list of everything Duke said in 1.3 and Plutonium Pack. I'm sorry, but Bruce's head (and those who think this as well) need to be deflated a bit if they think that Duke is even largely influenced by Ash in AoD. He doesn't look like him, doesn't sound like him, doesn't act like him, etc. Next time one of you quotes a movie with your friends, try to remember how unoriginal and unfunny you are being.

Ash -- Ohhhh... that's gotta hurt!
Ash -- Groovy!
Ash -- Hail to the king, Baby!
Ash -- Who wants some?

Most commonly quoted things from Duke (of which... only "Hail to the King, Baby" would be included).

Heh heh heh... what a mess.
Die you son of a bitch!
Eat shit and die!
Damn I'm good!
Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride!
Yeah, piece of cake!
I'll rip your head off and shit down your neck!
Rockin!
Shake it baby!
You wanna dance?
Hmmm... that's one doomed space marine!
I'm Duke Nukem, and I'm coming to get the rest of you Alien Bastards!
Your face, your ass, what's the difference?
This is KTIT... K Tit... bringing you the breast, uhh... the best tunes in town!
Let GOD sort em out!
Let's rock!
Damn, I'm lookin good!
Hmmm... don't have time to play with myself!
Boooorn to be wiiiiild!
It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all outta gum.
Come get some!
I ain't afraid of no Quake!
Ready for action!
Gonna rip em a new one!
Suck it down!
What are ya waitin for, Christmas?
It's down to you and me one eyed freak!

And the rest:

Come on!
Damn, that's the second time those alien bastards shot up my ride!
It's time to abort your whole freaking species!
Ahhhh....
Ahhhh.... much better!
Looks like cleanup on isle 4.
Damn that was annoying.
Bitchin
Blow it out yer ass.
I should of know those alien maggots booby trapped the sub.
Hmmm... Bookem Danno
Hmmm... looks like I have the con.
Cool!
I'm not crying over this!
Damn
Damnit
No way I'm eating this shit!
I guess he didn't Escape From LA.
Now THIS is a force to be reckoned with!
Get the crap outta here!
Game over!
You guys suck!
Shit Happens.
Holy cow!
Holy shit!
Nobody jacks with our independence!
See you in hell!
Hmmm... I'm goin in!
We meet again Dr. Jones!
I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch!
Go ahead, make my day!
I'm gonna get medieval on your asses!
Nobody messes with MY meat!
My name's Duke Nukem!
Ohhh... I needed that!
What? There's only one of you?
Hmmm... my kinda party! Wish I had time.
This really pisses me off!
You're pissing me off!
Looks like it's time for me to go POSTAL!
After a few days of R&R, I'll be ready for more action!
I think I'll climb aboard!
Get back to work you slacker!
So help me Duke!
Terminated!
Ehhh... this sucks
Somebody is gonna freaking pay for screwing up MY vacation!
Nobody steals our chicks, and lives!
Where is it?
Yippie Kay-yay Mother F*BEEP*er!
Yo ho ho and a bottle of Jack!
Har matie... someone's gonna take a long walk off a short gangplank!

Duke is made up of us. His world is our world. He is everything that is funny, cool, action oriented, and absurd. He is Pop Culture, which might explain why his character is so popular and likeable for people who want to laugh and have rip roaring good time.

So... uhhh... Suck it down!

Ahhh damnit, that's already been used!

Charlie Wiederhold

11-09-1999, 10:09 PM

BTW, credit goes to George B. for the idea to start off a discussion of this subject with that quote.

Wouldn't want to rip anyone off now would I?

Aurora51 · 11-10-1999, 12:10 AM

Quirky: whats with all this shit all the sudden? I mean, you know Hate DNF cuz it has a few lines (few) that were taken from AoD or ED? Big deal. Jesus, this thread is just pointless.

FACT: Bruce Cambell is an arrogant jerk. I've read many of his intervies, most that dont even bring up Duke. He acts like his movies are the greatest, and that Tachyon is the best game ever (which it isnt. Its a blantant ripoff of some other game called Darklight Conflict or something like that. Either way its crap, play the demo). Campbell is whining and moaning. So if I say "Groovy" I am ripping off AoD eh? Jesus christ....

Duke's New Chainsaw · 11-10-1999, 12:15 AM

YA!

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"WHAT THERE'S ONLY ONE OF YOU?!?!?!"-Duke Nukem

NutWrench · 11-10-1999, 12:23 AM

Bruce Campbell is a big Poopyhead.

--Nut

SpamViking · 11-10-1999, 01:08 AM

All I have to say to Charlie's post is..
BOOOYAAAA!!!

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"What, ridden on a horse?"
"Yes"
"You're using coconuts!"

nels · 11-10-1999, 02:02 AM

As someone has said before "DONT TRY AND ARGUE WITH 3DREALMS!". why? because they will kick your little newbie asses!, people think 3drealms are normal people... they are.. but they are gaming GODS!

.. they know everything about duke... why? because they made him!

so why try and argue?... and EvilAsh... you made so much wrong statements in your post its not funny! just because you are obsessed with Bruce doesnt mean you have to make up shit like "these are HIS lines!" and crap.. because they are anyones! its a movie! its humor! who cares. I was waiting a while for you Wieder, thanks for responding to that evilash!

May the force be with you 3drealms!
(oh shit! thats from starwars! will i get sued?)

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Duke Nukem Forever TC World: http://www.dnftcworld.cjb.net
#1 Source for upcoming and planned DNF Total Conversions.

11-10-1999, 01:33 PM

Normally I would quote your arguments but Ill just not for time's sake.

1) Weider. Thanks for the reply. Ive mentioned this stuff before and nobody ever bothered to say anything about it. So! As far as all of my "net" experience goes, nobody from 3D Realms ever commented. I looked for it too, but never found that nugget of info.

2) Everybody here that says "screw Bruce Campbell" or "He's arrogant!" should remember that he's one of the few actors who leaves his E-mail open for you to write him, and he ALWAYS replys. He is a nice charitable, and obviously funny guy. Im sure he doesnt like Duke very much, but thats ok. Not everybody has to.

3) The copyright lawyer at the office is the one who filled me in on the whole "lines" legality stuff. He specializes in intellectual property laws, since we ARE a software company.(the one I work for) Perhaps Im wrong, but I thought it was a pretty damn credible source for legal advice.

4) As for the fact that other people from this country post here...I'd assumed that the 1st ammendment applied to them as well, since the server is located within the Continental United states, and the data contained is the property of a United States company.

I appreciate "spoofing" and parody, but maybe instead of chanting "Parody laws protect us! Parody laws protect us!" maybe you could have been nice people about it and just said

"Hey dude, yeah, we like your movies. We're gonna use some of the lines from your movies, kinda has homage, or a spoof, ok? of course if you say NO we can use em anyways but..."

Did you do that at all or in any form? If so, I apologize and thats cool, but it just doesnt seem like it. If I created a signature character or weapon or something, and you guys used it without asking or giving any sort of recognition to it or ANYTHING then I'd be a little miffed too. And thats probably all Bruce is. These people are suddenly ANTI-BRUCE and burning AoD tapes across the world as soon as he says his game is gonna kick dukes ass. HE HAS TO SAY THAT. He is in the game. He cant very well say,

"oh yeah, Im in this new game, but Duke Nukem Rules over it totally man!"

Maybe he likes Duke. Maybe his kid does. Whatever. I dont care. Im just upset that up until this point I hadnt heard ANYBody from 3DR make any kind of admission. Now I have. Im happy.

Aurora51: I like Duke. I always did. Ill have Duke Forever pre-ordered in fact. I just wanted to hear some kind of admission from 3DR that they did indeed take these things from AoD. I say take because they didnt ask. If they had it would be borrowing.

And Tachyon, according to 3drealms, isnt called a "ripoff" its called "parody" shhh! Nobody wants to get sued!!!

If I ever get into games Im gonna have Duke somewhere getting the crap kicked outta him by old ladies or aliens or something, then whenever anybody complains Ill just say:
"Hey! You dont like it? Just try sueing me!"
instead of
"Gee ya know, I thouht it would be nice to use your character in my game, for the sake of parody of course. You dont mind do you?"

11-10-1999, 01:35 PM

whoa... I fergot about "Yippie-Ki-Yay Mother F*BEEP*Rs!"
That was by far my favorite thing duke said.. I laughed my ass off and got killed the first time I heard that!

oh wait.. isn't that copyright infringement?!?

I'M SENDING THAT INFORMATION STRAIGHT TO BRUCE WILLIS'S E-MAIL BOX!!! HE GUNNA SUE YOUR BUTT, MAN!! YOO JUS WATE! MR. WILLIS (REASON FUR MEE LIVING) IZ GUNNA SHO YOOO SUMTING TREEDEERULMZ! HUH HUH...
oh wait.. sorry...

P.S.. Bruce Willis could kick Bruce Cambells candy ass!! You should get Willis to do the voice for duke!

to Quirky:
First off, I noticed since all of your best defenses have been shot down by the almighty Weider, you seem to be running for cover now.

Sure, the chainsaw is on dukes hand just like ashes hand, and didn't chalie JUST NOW SAY (and the games not even out yet) that they got the idea from AoD and ashes chainsaw?!?! yes I belive he did... so why are you bitching yet again that 3DRealms is trying to steal ideas and hope nobody notices?? You mentioned that the only reason you were whining was because 3DRealms hasn't even mentioned AoD or BC before. But if you weren't so busy cruising the "Bruce Cambell is GOD" fan sites, you know that 3DR acknowledges the AoD Homages all the damn time. They have never denied it. But you wouldn't know about that. You just figure that since George didn't email you directly to inform you about that, then they must have been STEALING and hoping that they could deney there way outta any legal bullshit, right?
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Personally, I think Jim Henson said it best when he said...
"Anybody got any asprin? I think I got a cold." -Dennis Leary

[This message has been edited by tums (edited 11-10-1999).]

DudeNukem · 11-10-1999, 04:05 PM

well this is very off-topic, but the list of sayings made me think of this... darth vader is in DNF and when Duke sees him he says "Duke, I am your father, it's true." hehe

anywayz all this bullshit about Bruce Campbell and Duke is just that, bullshit, so let's start another topic and forget this one because it's just stupid.

11-10-1999, 05:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Parody laws protect us!" maybe you could have been nice people about it and just said

"Hey dude, yeah, we like your movies. We're gonna use some of the lines from your movies<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quirky, I think you missed the point of Wieder's post. In the case of the AoD lines, parody has nothing to do with it. These lines have been around long before AoD was made (IMO attaching "baby" to the old "Hail to the king" does not make it unique.) Knowing this, you have to ask yourself, "Did AoD ask for anyones approval to use these lines?" I don't think so.

Wieder made a great post and all of the answers to your questions, I think, are right there in it. Please don't anger him and make him have to post again. He's got a game to put out.

Biscuit · 11-10-1999, 09:05 PM

I see 2 Bruce Campbell fans here, ash and kosh. If you ask me, it's the same person.......I've never even heard of that other game. That Campbell guy couldn't even do what St. John did

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-Biscuit
This place inside my mind, a place I'd like to hide, you don't know the chances...What if I should die???? A place that's on my brain, another kind of pain, you don't know the chances, I'm so bliiiiiiiind!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uncle Duke · 11-10-1999, 09:16 PM

Maybe you should all just take a deep breath, and think about why 3DR would bother to reference Evil Dead at all. Or why id Software bothered. Or why anyone else has.

Because they're cool movies. Cool ideas are used by others, sure, but everyone knows where they originally came from. I don't know anyone outside of the gaming community that calls them "FPS Titles" they're all called "Doom Games" or "like Wolfenstein."

Why? Because Wolf3D was the first, and DooM was the first major FPS phenomenon. Whenever someone sees zombies/undead monsters getting hacked with a chainsaw they don't think "Oh, they're ripping off Evil Dead" they think "Whoa, cool!" and then the recognize the Evil Dead reference. Most people, anyway, I'm sure diehard Evil Dead fans would think it the other way around.

3D Realms is only trying to make Duke a cool game, and chainsaws in FPS games are cool. Smart remarks while you're blowing away baddies are cool. Just because they reference them doesn't mean they're ripping them off--if they wanted to rip them off, they'd try to make it appear as though they'd done it first. But I think 3DR has made it pretty damn clear that they were not the first ones to use those ideas.

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Uncle Duke
uncleduke@prodigy.net
3D Realms BB Members FAQ
--
"If you're living like there's no God, you'd better be right." --Steven Wright

11-10-1999, 09:33 PM

How is this thread still going and why?

- Logic BomB

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Dnf as forseen in the movie Tremors 2:
"ITS GOING TO BE BIG! BIIIIG!"
"Is it going to be TODAY!"

fool · 11-10-1999, 09:59 PM

I'm a Bruce Campbell fan. Really. I've written him e-mails and he's responded, read almost his entire website, and I think he's a cool guy for the most part. Anyway, I dunno why he thinks what he thinks about Duke3D and 3DR but I think it's because he's mostly uninformed (ie never played the game himself). I think if he played the game for a bit, he'd be more understanding. Of course, given the stance he's taken, he probably couldn't do that with an open mind.
-fool

11-11-1999, 12:36 AM

Wow! Great post, Charlie. I like that "primative screwheads" line. Maybe Duke could use it in DNF

(I know it's from AOD.)

I really enjoyed reading the list of Duke lines. I didn't realize he said so many things. There's obviously more to Duke than just the 4 lines from AOD.

I was so inspired by the list that I'm going to print it out; study it; and whenever possible, work a few of the lines into my daily conversations. For instance, at the dinner table, I could say, "Pass the gravy... What are you waiting for, christmas!" or "No way I'm eating this sh*t!" I already say, "Ahhh... much better," when I go to the bathroom.

Anyways, thanks for the inspiring post. "I needed that."

[This message has been edited by DukemNukem (edited 11-10-1999).]

11-11-1999, 12:49 AM

OH NEVERMIND ITS ABOUT THE MOVIE

screw the movie I WANT THE DAMN GAME

hehehe

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MILK CHOCOLATE RECORDS FOR LIVE!

11-11-1999, 12:53 AM

BTW that guy sucks

11-11-1999, 06:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Did you do that at all or in any form? If so, I apologize and thats cool, but it just doesnt seem like it. If I created a signature character or weapon or something, and you guys used it without asking or giving any sort of recognition to it or ANYTHING then I'd be a little miffed too. And thats probably all Bruce is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You kinda missed the point. Did Bruce ask the general public if he could us "Groovy", "Ohhhh, that's gotta hurt", or "Who wants some?" I doubt it. Did he ask Elvis or whoever owns his copyrights if he could use "Hail to the King"? I doubt it. Listen to the way Duke says his lines, and the way Bruce says his. They are said completely differently... sound completely different, have different stresses and emphasis, etc.

There is no reason to ask if we can use those lines... even if we didn't intend it as a homage or "in joke". Most of the time people are honored by homages made to something they did, Bruce seems to not be. If I were to make my guess it would be because Duke was unfortunately more successful with those lines than he was and is sick of being asked about it. I can understand the frustration over that, but to hint at legal action for something that he has no grounds to do... that's why I bounce around with "Parody laws... etc". Things are setup currently so that you don't have to ask 1000 odd people everytime you want to do something in your games, movies, books that is in reference to, parody of, homage to something.

But let me ask this: Would Duke have sold any fewer units if those 4 lines had been deleted from the game? No. It would have sold the exact same amount. Duke is not defined by those 4 lines, but a combination of a ton of things. George Lucas used countless things in old movies, books, cultures to piece together the world that became Star Wars. He used names, phrases, locations to create something that was new and bigger than the parts that he pulled from. Do you think he asked those movies, etc. if he could borrow from them? Duke is the same setup. His world and his personality is pulled from many many avenues of pop culture with some "original" ideas as well. I quote original as there are *no* original ideas. Everything is a rehash, refinement, evolution of something else... even if you never knew of the original source.

On a privately run bulletin board nobody has any rights except the person who owns it. If they want to delete everyone's posts and call them all Communist Swines who drink warm beer in a bathtub full of Jell-o, well... they can do that.

Charlie Wiederhold

11-11-1999, 10:51 AM

Thats funny, I thought imitation was the biggest form of flattery..

When Weird Al does someones song, they take it as a sign of respect and homage to the artist. I think it was Nirvana that thought they'd finally "made it" as a band, when Weird Al approached them about doing one of their songs.

I like Bruce, love the Evil Dead's, but I think he needs to lighten up. I'd agree with the previous ideas about Apogee/3DR probably couldn't have afforded him at the time, didn't know that Duke3D would take off like it did, and most likely didn't think sampling a couple of his lines would be such a big deal. They were just reflecting pop culture, like Waynes World and other farce movies do for laughs.

You'd think he'd be happy he was included, I would have been ecstatic.

11-11-1999, 11:34 AM

at some points, the 3dr guys say the sayings are random sayings that anyone could have come up with, and later, they say they did them as a direct result of him. Ya really should make up your mind. they either are taken from him, or they aren't.

They have to be taken and used as parody, or it's just stealing someone else's idea. I think Duke3d qualified as parody, obviously the jury is still out on whether DNF will qualify as parody (I hope they do similar stuff, I really wanna see OJ back.)

And if you want to use the Weird Al example, then I think a more appropriate example would have been Weird Al's "Amish Paridise" and how Coolio felt about that.

Anyway, I don't know the bruce guy, and I thought the sayings in Duke were just fun.

CONAN · 11-11-1999, 11:59 AM

The lines were both taken from Bruce and not. They were taken as a direct result of the movies, but, since the movies weren't the first to use them, they TECHNICALLY weren't "taken" from the movies. They are really from the first people who said them, whom we don't know.

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www.dukeworld.com/warfaretc

'Cuz you're sick of yourself... WELL I'M SICK OF YOU TOO!!!!!

Ajaxx · 11-11-1999, 01:44 PM

Good ol' Charlie!! He hit the nail right on the head....with a 20 ton Nuke!!!

BTW: I heard that an Evil Dead game is in developement for the playstation.
It's called Evil Dead: Ashes 2 Ashes.

So far, I've heard absolutely nothing about Bruce Campbell in association to this game, voice-overs or otherwise!

I suppose that the creators of this game should be appologising to Bruce, too, shouldn't they?!! What a JERK!!

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Ajaxx
ICQ#15069804

11-11-1999, 01:58 PM

oh boy... this is fun...

Hey JOE! Nobody wants to listen to reason, just lockup this thread please.

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Personally, I think Jim Henson said it best when he said...
"Anybody got any asprin? I think I got a cold." -Dennis Leary

WarHammer · 11-11-1999, 02:54 PM

This whole thread just needs one big family-sized Bucket O' Chill Out. 3D Realms was not the first to do this sort of thing. What about Space Balls? That was a giant parody of Star Wars and no other movie and even done in the same medium but does George Lucas care? No. At least Duke is a combonation of many different things. My parents and Millions others were saying "groovy" long before Bruce/Ash. 75% of everything in Duke may have been borrowed from other sources but that doesn't mean it's a rip-off. Parodys have been around alot longer than Bruce Campbell and Duke Nukem combined.

BTW Charlie, how come you don't have 3DR on your screen name like everyone else? Are you a fugitive 3D Realms employee?

Oh and if parodys are illegal then here is a page of Star Wars related debauchery the likes of which the world has never seen!
http://www.visi.com/~blue/forceflicks/

11-11-1999, 03:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
The lines are his baby YOU KNOW WHERE THE LINES COME FROM THEY COME FROM EVIL DEAD2 and ARmy OF DARKNESS. Public Domain my ass.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what the heck is Army of Darkness or Evil Dead? Never even heard of them. them or Bruce Camp-bell

DUKE ROCKS BABY... Tachyon the Fringe is a good game, ya it is. but its NOTHING compared to duke nukem

A space flight game Tachyon the fringe

A ROCK YOU FRIGIN WORLD game... DUKE NUKEM

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Ever played Legend of Zelda? If you have, you know what i am!

11-11-1999, 03:50 PM

Yea Octorok me either I have never heard of this dude either

11-11-1999, 08:24 PM

ErectBizkit:

funny name man!

limpbizkit

erectbizkit
lol

the demo of tachyon the fringe was kinda dumb too... i wish you could land on planets !

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Ever played Legend of Zelda? If you have, you know what i am!

Dukefan · 11-11-1999, 11:39 PM

Anyone else notice that EvilAsh hasn't bothered to reply since Weider made his post? Go figure. Nothing about EvilAsh personally, but does anyone on the boards have any recollection at all of somebody, anybody coming out and saying "Sorry, you're right, I'm wrong, let's forget about it" after being "attacked" in an argument kinda like we all did? Nope, didn't think so.

Oh boy MrPiccrd....you have no idea what you just said. Allow me to analyze your post:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There are nothing but rip-off artists working at 3D Realms. The whole DNF project is a giant rip-off. I used to be a HUGE fan of the Duke Nukem games and I'd been looking forward to part 4 for some time until I realized the plot line.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rip-off artists? I don't see what the hell made you arrive at this conclusion. If you're referring to the fact that everything in Duke3D is taken from something else, then yes, Charlie Weiderhold already stated that. But the impression you're giving is that they did it for the sake of ripping off others. And to that I have to say you're wrong. Could you please explain yourself. Hey, you claim DNF is a rip-off, but a rip-off of what?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Las Vegas, Area 51, Hoover Dam? Bringing back an old Duke Nukem enemy? They're ripped ideas from people who used to post to 3DRealms' AOL boards, one person in particular.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wait a second: You're complaining that it's taking place in general Earth locations??? Well, where the hell do you want it to take place, Pluto? Seriously, you have to be on something if you think the concept of making the setting of a story on Earth a rip-off. By that logic, 99.9% of every story ever written ever is a rip-off! Hmm....I wouldn't know about the AOL boards...but did you pay attention to that little blurb at the bottom of the screen that says "The software is now loading." or something like that? It says:
"Any solicited or non-solicited game idea, suggestion or comment (idea) that is mentioned in these forums becomes the intellectual property of Apogee Software Ltd., and might end up in one of our games without credit or monetary consideration given to the originator of the idea."
In other words, you say something on their own boards, they can use it. OKOK I know that that is now, so does anybody know if something similar to that was on the AOL fourms?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There are probably more ripped ideas but I wouldn't know--I've never played D4Ever. 3D Realms *does* need to get some of its own writers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Geez you are seriously bent on criticizing them in every possible way. You've never played D4ever. You've never played D4ever. Just think about this for a second. You've never played it. OK, well I think I might know why. Just a thought, no clue if its true or not, going out on a limb here, but maybe, just maybe......because it hasn't been released yet. Think that might be it? Nah, couldn't be. So how the hell can you criticize the game you've never played??? You don't know any more about the game than we do. Probably less in fact. Therefore anything at all you say about Duke Nukem Forever is extremely uneducated and biased.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If 3DRealms staffers run this board, this message will probably be deleted, but it's worth a shot, eh?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So now you're suggesting they're commies. Uh, no. Your specific post isn't going anywhere. 3DR has been criticized more than that on these boards (well at least as much as you have) and they just let devoted board regulars like me take care of it. They're way more open and tolerant than that. And if I know anything about people that type that kind of stupid statment for thier first post, it's that after reading my rebuttal, you won't say a thing. Most people tend to slink away quietly into the night rather than just admit they're wrong, and put it behind them. But oh well.

And I just know that's gonna spark some more people asking for the thread to be closed...

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-Dukefan
E-Mail: duke-nukem@home.com
AOL IM: LurkerFilz

11-12-1999, 12:28 AM

I must say that Mr. Campbell is absolutely right. There are nothing but rip-off artists working at 3D Realms. The whole DNF project is a giant rip-off. I used to be a HUGE fan of the Duke Nukem games and I'd been looking forward to part 4 for some time until I realized the plot line. Las Vegas, Area 51, Hoover Dam? Bringing back an old Duke Nukem enemy? They're ripped ideas from people who used to post to 3DRealms' AOL boards, one person in particular. There are probably more ripped ideas but I wouldn't know--I've never played D4Ever. 3D Realms *does* need to get some of its own writers. If 3DRealms staffers run this board, this message will probably be deleted, but it's worth a shot, eh?

Duke's New Chainsaw · 11-12-1999, 12:53 AM

THEY ARE TAKEN FROM THE MOVIES NOT BRUCE!!!!!!

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"WHAT THERE'S ONLY ONE OF YOU?!?!?!"-Duke Nukem

David · 11-12-1999, 03:47 AM

I really can't see where the arguement is over the lines. Even 3drealms admit a lot of duke was copied from AOD, right down to the movie poster. A similar topic over on the duke nukem board mentioned all this and replies from 3drealms. Copyrighting lines is not that black and white (and measure one by four by nine), and Raimi and co are no better with AOD and 'klato verda nikto' (it's been a while, can't remember the exact phrase).

But back on topic - I think most folk would feel the same as Bruce if they were in his position (I would). Just a bit peeved that others make money off his back. I mean, it's not as if he's calling 3drealms a bunch of wankers, just didn't like the way it was handled.

As for those who claim to have never heard of Bruce, evil dead or AOD, then you really missed out in duke, must have gone right over your head.

[This message has been edited by David (edited 11-12-1999).]

JonoF · 11-12-1999, 05:17 AM

Well, since this has died down, I'd like to say well done to EvilAsh for creating this nice topic, Weider and Dukefan for their true and factual comments and everybody else who had something sensible to say.

Cheers

JonoF

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http://members.xoom.com/jonathon_f

Ajaxx · 11-12-1999, 11:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If 3DRealms staffers run this board, this message will probably be deleted, but it's worth a shot, eh?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

believe me, man, deleting it is the nicest thing they could possibly do.....it'd spare you from totally embarrassing yourself. well too late for that.

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Ajaxx
ICQ#15069804

11-09-1999, 07:12 PM	#41
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! EvilAsh, if you like Bruce then buy his games but let Duke be Duke. No other Duke can Duke the way Duke does Duke. Am I making myself clear?

11-09-1999, 07:35 PM	#42
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! You know what? They ARE his lines, no matter what you think. I’m sorry. It’s true. Get over it. All you duke-lova's cant see the truth through all that RED whenever anybody has any kind of criticism. The chainsaw hand in the new screenshot? You cant tell me ANY way on earth did they just "make that up"! They ripped he and Sam Raimi off! YES he and Sam Raimi were co-collaborators just outta school when they made evil-dead. The actors in the movie were actor friends of theirs. He owns the lines, not because he was the first person to EVER say them, but because he and Sam Raimi were the first to ever use them as "one liners" in an entertainment format that was internationally distributed and copyrighted. Like Duke. They aren’t dicks, but they also aren’t happy that Duke is using the lines (and now SIGNATURE weapons) that THEY DO have copyrighted without any kind of disclaimer, permission or credit given, let alone any mention of money. Failed actor my ass! He is a VERY successful actor. Think about all the theater actors, and commercial actors, and exta's & crap then think about all the shows & movies he's been in and directed and the fact that he's ALWAYS busy. An actor can claim success when he no longer has to audition, but gets enough offers that he can have plenty of choice. Bruce has that. He's not Arnold, or Mel, but he's successful. Thats like saying the CEO of Yahoo is not successful where as Disney's CEO is simpley because he makes more. Nope. Sorry the world doesn’t conform to your twisted, yet seemingly dynamic opinions. Oh and as for how you say "if you don’t like it then GET the hell outta here"...People who dont like Duke have EVERY SINGLE bit of freedom here and EVERY right that you people do. This board is hosted in the United States of America where we have this beautiful thing called Freedom of Speech. We can say whatever we please. And you can’t do a thing about it. In fact neither can 3dRealms legally I think, unless they just want to shut the board down. So this thread, which was merely to bring attention to the fact that MANY of the new 'dukeisms' that you know, are in fact "homage" to Bruce Campbell, and Sam Raimi. It also exists to give credit to them, and express thier displeasure at having no credit given by 3D Realms. Most of you need to lighten up, and realize that the world is much larger than you and your opinions, favorites, families, towns or even countries and that what you believe is, more often that not, fatally flawed in some basic manner. Notice that 3D Realms has failed to comment on ANY of this??? They probably have some lawyer telling them "dont say anything, if it ever goes to court, we can claim that the ideas are original and that we had no recollection of any similarities between the two. If that doesn’t work, we can at least claim that the copyright is not applicable because its a different entertainment medium.

11-09-1999, 07:53 PM	#43
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Ok, hold up... Whoever is saying that certain phrases belong to whoever "made them up" is on crack. It doesnt really make any sense now does it, since our spoken language is based on a set of words found, say, in a dictionary for example. Websters should be getting their asses sued if we're to follow this train of thought, for they were probably not the first people to invent all the words contained in their own dictionary. Fact is, we should all be getting sued then for using words we did not create... I know I was not the one who came up with the word "dog," for example, and I doubt it was you. Also, to put a copyright on the use of certain words is to take away freedom of speech, and is that what we are all about? [This message has been edited by Krayzay! (edited 11-09-1999).]

11-09-1999, 08:10 PM	#44
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Just one more thing: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." - Bill Clinton Well, I didn't either, so let me say that also: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Oh, damn, I guess I should be sued for that...

11-09-1999, 08:28 PM	#45
Logic Bomb Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Just for everyone interest you can not patent or copywrite words from the english language that are used often/not spcific to something. (sory my vocab has been shit lately so bear with me). IBM can copywrite and patent those 3 letters because they stand for something adn they use it to identify the company. Star wars can patent that because they use it a lot and identify the movie with that. if the movie was called "hail to the king baby" then they might have a court case but not realy. You cant OWN a phrase you said in the movie. And i highly doubt that those words you say he owns have never been said by anyone before. and for the last time 3drealms IS NOT A RIPOFF COMPANY! They use it as jokes, gags, for subtle comecal enlightenment. You dont like it bring it to court, i doubt you will get far. Btw is it iligal for me to use "alakazam" in a game? I ddint make it up and its been in a tv show nd movie before. Damn where can i get the rights... - Logic BomB ------------------ Dnf as forseen in the movie Tremors 2: "ITS GOING TO BE BIG! BIIIIG!" "Is it going to be TODAY!"

11-09-1999, 08:38 PM	#46
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Just my $.02... I first heard of the ED/DN correlation here on this very website - from a 3DR rep I believe, years ago. And you know what releasing that info did... do ya...??? It made me go out and rent (for the very first time) Evil Dead. What a great movie!!! I loved it - and I loved listening for lines that 3DR chose to use as Dukisms... IMHO, the fact that this whole situation happened was a boon for BC and the ED camp, because my rental gave them some more business that they never would've had if I hadn't been a Duke fan... Bad thing? I think not! --Timster-- ------------------ Earning $$$ for surfing the web? Want to??? If so, contact me for details... ;-)

11-09-1999, 10:05 PM	#47
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! "Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!" <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You know what? They ARE his lines, no matter what you think. I’m sorry. It’s true. Get over it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> These are the 4 lines from Duke that could be said were done in homage to AoD. Hail to the king can be directly put on Elvis' shoulders. Groovy - Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but this is a pretty common word correct? And was in use long before AoD as well. Ohhh that's gotta hurt - This is a common phrase as well for when someone sees something that happens that looks painful. Who wants some? - This was used before Ash as well. Sorry. Now, were some of them used as a parody of Ash? Yes of course. Just like the literal thousands of other people, movies, TV shows, current events and such that were pulled into Duke. Those who are defending Bruce saying we should have asked etc... why aren't you going nuts over the references to Star Wars, Star Trek, OJ Simpson, Simpsons, Terminator, Titanic, Predator, Lethal Weapon, Dragnet, Arnold Schwarzenager (sp?), Indiana Jones, Quake, Doom... (shall I go on)? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The chainsaw hand in the new screenshot? You cant tell me ANY way on earth did they just "make that up"!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They did that in AoD? Dang it we must remove it now! Yes, it is a parody of the one Ash uses. For some reason the concept of parody and humor is lost on some people. I guarantee there was a collective "Holy Shit that's funny!" around the world when that shot went out. People have been dying for a good old fashioned gas powered chainsaw for a while... we gave them one that also has some culture to it. What... should we have mounted it on Duke's head just so it can be original? I'll bet somewhere some person who made a movie while in college would pop up screaming that we ripped off his head mounted chainsaw. There are things that are cool, fun, and funny... that's what defines Duke and the chainsaw from AoD fit the bill. Where is the humor in a chainsaw that is held normally? Seems kinda bland doesn't it? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He owns the lines, not because he was the first person to EVER say them, but because he and Sam Raimi were the first to ever use them as "one liners" in an entertainment format that was internationally distributed and copyrighted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You can't own individual lines in a movie, book, etc. End of story. There are parody laws to prevent such a thing. Nobody is going to get in trouble if they are writing a humorous book that starts off "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..." <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We can say whatever we please. And you can’t do a thing about it. In fact neither can 3dRealms legally I think, unless they just want to shut the board down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> We can delete whatever posts we so choose... that's the privledge of running your own private message board. We try not to and certainly would never delete something like this, but it is our board so if we wanted to be ******s freedom of speech would have no bearing here. You forget that people in other countries do post here, and it's not like the Bill of Rights applies to them does it? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Most of you need to lighten up,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So does Bruce. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Notice that 3D Realms has failed to comment on ANY of this???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This subject comes up all the time and we have* replied. For time saving sake, I'll copy and paste something that Scott Miller posted recently. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Bruce Cambell has never been considered to play Duke in the movie. Bruce and Duke are very different. When Duke was created back in 1991, he conceived as a combination of Arnold S. (the ultimate action star), with some Clint Eastwood and John Wayne thrown in. The reality is that Duke Nukem is a modern day John Wayne--the original Western Duke. Even Duke's voice is a combo of Eastwood and Wayne, and has nothing to do with Cambell other than using a three of Ash's phrases. We also used some phrases from other movies, too. Duke is a combination of all the cool heroes we have grown up with here at 3D Realms. So sue us! ;-) Most of Duke's 100+ phrases in Duke 3D are original, though. I've never understood why Cambell is so put off by Duke, other than he feels spited that we didn't ask him to do Duke's voice, and we haven't talked to him about doing the movie -- that's because he's not the right actor for either role. Duke is not Ash, and therefore Duke is not Bruce Cambell. End of story. Scott Miller<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> We have addressed this issue several times, and every time it's always the same answer. The things pulled from AoD were 2-3 lines on purpose, but when you are talking about over a hundred lines of dialog, and hundreds and hundreds of references to other actors, movies, public figures, etc... doesn't it seem rather silly to get into such a frenzy over this one? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They probably have some lawyer telling them "dont say anything, if it ever goes to court, we can claim that the ideas are original and that we had no recollection of any similarities between the two. If that doesn’t work, we can at least claim that the copyright is not applicable because its a different entertainment medium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> We don't have to worry about anything because we haven't done anything wrong. There are laws in place to protect against such abusrd things, so please learn what is and isn't allowed in entertainment mediums before getting bent out of shape and assuming we are trying to hide behind things. For reference, here is a list of everything Duke said in 1.3 and Plutonium Pack. I'm sorry, but Bruce's head (and those who think this as well) need to be deflated a bit if they think that Duke is even largely influenced by Ash in AoD. He doesn't look like him, doesn't sound like him, doesn't act like him, etc. Next time one of you quotes a movie with your friends, try to remember how unoriginal and unfunny you are being. Ash -- Ohhhh... that's gotta hurt! Ash -- Groovy! Ash -- Hail to the king, Baby! Ash -- Who wants some? Most commonly quoted things from Duke (of which... only "Hail to the King, Baby" would be included). Heh heh heh... what a mess. Die you son of a bitch! Eat shit and die! Damn I'm good! Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride! Yeah, piece of cake! I'll rip your head off and shit down your neck! Rockin! Shake it baby! You wanna dance? Hmmm... that's one doomed space marine! I'm Duke Nukem, and I'm coming to get the rest of you Alien Bastards! Your face, your ass, what's the difference? This is KTIT... K Tit... bringing you the breast, uhh... the best tunes in town! Let GOD sort em out! Let's rock! Damn, I'm lookin good! Hmmm... don't have time to play with myself! Boooorn to be wiiiiild! It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all outta gum. Come get some! I ain't afraid of no Quake! Ready for action! Gonna rip em a new one! Suck it down! What are ya waitin for, Christmas? It's down to you and me one eyed freak! And the rest: Come on! Damn, that's the second time those alien bastards shot up my ride! It's time to abort your whole freaking species! Ahhhh.... Ahhhh.... much better! Looks like cleanup on isle 4. Damn that was annoying. Bitchin Blow it out yer ass. I should of know those alien maggots booby trapped the sub. Hmmm... Bookem Danno Hmmm... looks like I have the con. Cool! I'm not crying over this! Damn Damnit No way I'm eating this shit! I guess he didn't Escape From LA. Now THIS is a force to be reckoned with! Get the crap outta here! Game over! You guys suck! Shit Happens. Holy cow! Holy shit! Nobody jacks with our independence! See you in hell! Hmmm... I'm goin in! We meet again Dr. Jones! I'm gonna kick your ass, bitch! Go ahead, make my day! I'm gonna get medieval on your asses! Nobody messes with MY meat! My name's Duke Nukem! Ohhh... I needed that! What? There's only one of you? Hmmm... my kinda party! Wish I had time. This really pisses me off! You're pissing me off! Looks like it's time for me to go POSTAL! After a few days of R&R, I'll be ready for more action! I think I'll climb aboard! Get back to work you slacker! So help me Duke! Terminated! Ehhh... this sucks Somebody is gonna freaking pay for screwing up MY vacation! Nobody steals our chicks, and lives! Where is it? Yippie Kay-yay Mother FBEEPer! Yo ho ho and a bottle of Jack! Har matie... someone's gonna take a long walk off a short gangplank! Duke is made up of us. His world is our world. He is everything that is funny, cool, action oriented, and absurd. He is Pop Culture, which might explain why his character is so popular and likeable for people who want to laugh and have rip roaring good time. So... uhhh... Suck it down! Ahhh damnit, that's already been used! Charlie Wiederhold

11-09-1999, 10:09 PM	#48
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! BTW, credit goes to George B. for the idea to start off a discussion of this subject with that quote. Wouldn't want to rip anyone off now would I?

11-10-1999, 12:10 AM	#49
Aurora51	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Quirky: whats with all this shit all the sudden? I mean, you know Hate DNF cuz it has a few lines (few) that were taken from AoD or ED? Big deal. Jesus, this thread is just pointless. FACT: Bruce Cambell is an arrogant jerk. I've read many of his intervies, most that dont even bring up Duke. He acts like his movies are the greatest, and that Tachyon is the best game ever (which it isnt. Its a blantant ripoff of some other game called Darklight Conflict or something like that. Either way its crap, play the demo). Campbell is whining and moaning. So if I say "Groovy" I am ripping off AoD eh? Jesus christ....

11-10-1999, 12:15 AM	#50
Duke's New Chainsaw	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! YA! ------------------ "WHAT THERE'S ONLY ONE OF YOU?!?!?!"-Duke Nukem __________________ The Great Communicator!

11-10-1999, 12:23 AM	#51
NutWrench	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Bruce Campbell is a big Poopyhead. --Nut __________________ "If by chance some day you're not feeling well and you should remember some silly thing I've said or done and it brings back a smile to your face or a chuckle to your heart, then my purpose as your clown has been fulfilled."

11-10-1999, 01:08 AM	#52
SpamViking	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! All I have to say to Charlie's post is.. BOOOYAAAA!!! ------------------ "What, ridden on a horse?" "Yes" "You're using coconuts!" __________________ Edges of Seven on Myspace Debut CD "Born Again Hard" now on iTunes!

11-10-1999, 02:02 AM	#53
nels	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! As someone has said before "DONT TRY AND ARGUE WITH 3DREALMS!". why? because they will kick your little newbie asses!, people think 3drealms are normal people... they are.. but they are gaming GODS! .. they know everything about duke... why? because they made him! so why try and argue?... and EvilAsh... you made so much wrong statements in your post its not funny! just because you are obsessed with Bruce doesnt mean you have to make up shit like "these are HIS lines!" and crap.. because they are anyones! its a movie! its humor! who cares. I was waiting a while for you Wieder, thanks for responding to that evilash! May the force be with you 3drealms! (oh shit! thats from starwars! will i get sued?) ------------------ Duke Nukem Forever TC World: http://www.dnftcworld.cjb.net #1 Source for upcoming and planned DNF Total Conversions.

11-10-1999, 01:33 PM	#54
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Normally I would quote your arguments but Ill just not for time's sake. 1) Weider. Thanks for the reply. Ive mentioned this stuff before and nobody ever bothered to say anything about it. So! As far as all of my "net" experience goes, nobody from 3D Realms ever commented. I looked for it too, but never found that nugget of info. 2) Everybody here that says "screw Bruce Campbell" or "He's arrogant!" should remember that he's one of the few actors who leaves his E-mail open for you to write him, and he ALWAYS replys. He is a nice charitable, and obviously funny guy. Im sure he doesnt like Duke very much, but thats ok. Not everybody has to. 3) The copyright lawyer at the office is the one who filled me in on the whole "lines" legality stuff. He specializes in intellectual property laws, since we ARE a software company.(the one I work for) Perhaps Im wrong, but I thought it was a pretty damn credible source for legal advice. 4) As for the fact that other people from this country post here...I'd assumed that the 1st ammendment applied to them as well, since the server is located within the Continental United states, and the data contained is the property of a United States company. I appreciate "spoofing" and parody, but maybe instead of chanting "Parody laws protect us! Parody laws protect us!" maybe you could have been nice people about it and just said "Hey dude, yeah, we like your movies. We're gonna use some of the lines from your movies, kinda has homage, or a spoof, ok? of course if you say NO we can use em anyways but..." Did you do that at all or in any form? If so, I apologize and thats cool, but it just doesnt seem like it. If I created a signature character or weapon or something, and you guys used it without asking or giving any sort of recognition to it or ANYTHING then I'd be a little miffed too. And thats probably all Bruce is. These people are suddenly ANTI-BRUCE and burning AoD tapes across the world as soon as he says his game is gonna kick dukes ass. HE HAS TO SAY THAT. He is in the game. He cant very well say, "oh yeah, Im in this new game, but Duke Nukem Rules over it totally man!" Maybe he likes Duke. Maybe his kid does. Whatever. I dont care. Im just upset that up until this point I hadnt heard ANYBody from 3DR make any kind of admission. Now I have. Im happy. Aurora51: I like Duke. I always did. Ill have Duke Forever pre-ordered in fact. I just wanted to hear some kind of admission from 3DR that they did indeed take these things from AoD. I say take because they didnt ask. If they had it would be borrowing. And Tachyon, according to 3drealms, isnt called a "ripoff" its called "parody" shhh! Nobody wants to get sued!!! If I ever get into games Im gonna have Duke somewhere getting the crap kicked outta him by old ladies or aliens or something, then whenever anybody complains Ill just say: "Hey! You dont like it? Just try sueing me!" instead of "Gee ya know, I thouht it would be nice to use your character in my game, for the sake of parody of course. You dont mind do you?"

11-10-1999, 01:35 PM	#55
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! whoa... I fergot about *"Yippie-Ki-Yay Mother FBEEPRs!"* That was by far my favorite thing duke said.. I laughed my ass off and got killed the first time I heard that! oh wait.. isn't that copyright infringement?!? I'M SENDING THAT INFORMATION STRAIGHT TO BRUCE WILLIS'S E-MAIL BOX!!! HE GUNNA SUE YOUR BUTT, MAN!! YOO JUS WATE! MR. WILLIS (REASON FUR MEE LIVING) IZ GUNNA SHO YOOO SUMTING TREEDEERULMZ! HUH HUH... oh wait.. sorry... P.S.. Bruce Willis could kick Bruce Cambells candy ass!! You should get Willis to do the voice for duke! to Quirky: First off, I noticed since all of your best defenses have been shot down by the almighty Weider, you seem to be running for cover now. Sure, the chainsaw is on dukes hand just like ashes hand, and didn't chalie JUST NOW SAY (and the games not even out yet) that they got the idea from AoD and ashes chainsaw?!?! yes I belive he did... so why are you bitching yet again that 3DRealms is trying to steal ideas and hope nobody notices?? You mentioned that the only reason you were whining was because 3DRealms hasn't even mentioned AoD or BC before. But if you weren't so busy cruising the "Bruce Cambell is GOD" fan sites, you know that 3DR acknowledges the AoD Homages all the damn time. They have never denied it. But you wouldn't know about that. You just figure that since George didn't email you directly to inform you about that, then they must have been STEALING and hoping that they could deney there way outta any legal bullshit, right? ------------------ Personally, I think Jim Henson said it best when he said... "Anybody got any asprin? I think I got a cold." -Dennis Leary [This message has been edited by tums (edited 11-10-1999).]

11-10-1999, 04:05 PM	#56
DudeNukem	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! well this is very off-topic, but the list of sayings made me think of this... darth vader is in DNF and when Duke sees him he says "Duke, I am your father, it's true." hehe anywayz all this bullshit about Bruce Campbell and Duke is just that, bullshit, so let's start another topic and forget this one because it's just stupid.

11-10-1999, 05:22 PM	#57
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Parody laws protect us!" maybe you could have been nice people about it and just said "Hey dude, yeah, we like your movies. We're gonna use some of the lines from your movies<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Quirky, I think you missed the point of Wieder's post. In the case of the AoD lines, parody has nothing to do with it. These lines have been around long before AoD was made (IMO attaching "baby" to the old "Hail to the king" does not make it unique.) Knowing this, you have to ask yourself, "Did AoD ask for anyones approval to use these lines?" I don't think so. Wieder made a great post and all of the answers to your questions, I think, are right there in it. Please don't anger him and make him have to post again. He's got a game to put out.

11-10-1999, 09:05 PM	#58
Biscuit	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! I see 2 Bruce Campbell fans here, ash and kosh. If you ask me, it's the same person.......I've never even heard of that other game. That Campbell guy couldn't even do what St. John did ------------------ -Biscuit This place inside my mind, a place I'd like to hide, you don't know the chances...What if I should die???? A place that's on my brain, another kind of pain, you don't know the chances, I'm so bliiiiiiiind!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11-10-1999, 09:16 PM	#59
Uncle Duke	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Maybe you should all just take a deep breath, and think about why 3DR would bother to reference Evil Dead at all. Or why id Software bothered. Or why anyone else has. Because they're cool movies. Cool ideas are used by others, sure, but everyone knows where they originally came from. I don't know anyone outside of the gaming community that calls them "FPS Titles" they're all called "Doom Games" or "like Wolfenstein." Why? Because Wolf3D was the first, and DooM was the first major FPS phenomenon. Whenever someone sees zombies/undead monsters getting hacked with a chainsaw they don't think "Oh, they're ripping off Evil Dead" they think "Whoa, cool!" and then the recognize the Evil Dead reference. Most people, anyway, I'm sure diehard Evil Dead fans would think it the other way around. 3D Realms is only trying to make Duke a cool game, and chainsaws in FPS games are cool. Smart remarks while you're blowing away baddies are cool. Just because they reference them doesn't mean they're ripping them off--if they wanted to rip them off, they'd try to make it appear as though they'd done it first. But I think 3DR has made it pretty damn clear that they were not the first ones to use those ideas. ------------------ *Uncle Duke* uncleduke@prodigy.net 3D Realms BB Members FAQ -- "If you're living like there's no God, you'd better be right." --Steven Wright

11-10-1999, 09:33 PM	#60
Logic Bomb Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! How is this thread still going and why? - Logic BomB ------------------ Dnf as forseen in the movie Tremors 2: "ITS GOING TO BE BIG! BIIIIG!" "Is it going to be TODAY!"

11-10-1999, 09:59 PM	#61
fool	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! I'm a Bruce Campbell fan. Really. I've written him e-mails and he's responded, read almost his entire website, and I think he's a cool guy for the most part. Anyway, I dunno why he thinks what he thinks about Duke3D and 3DR but I think it's because he's mostly uninformed (ie never played the game himself). I think if he played the game for a bit, he'd be more understanding. Of course, given the stance he's taken, he probably couldn't do that with an open mind. -fool

11-11-1999, 12:36 AM	#62
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Wow! Great post, Charlie. I like that "primative screwheads" line. Maybe Duke could use it in DNF (I know it's from AOD.) I really enjoyed reading the list of Duke lines. I didn't realize he said so many things. There's obviously more to Duke than just the 4 lines from AOD. I was so inspired by the list that I'm going to print it out; study it; and whenever possible, work a few of the lines into my daily conversations. For instance, at the dinner table, I could say, "Pass the gravy... What are you waiting for, christmas!" or "No way I'm eating this sh*t!" I already say, "Ahhh... much better," when I go to the bathroom. Anyways, thanks for the inspiring post. "I needed that." [This message has been edited by DukemNukem (edited 11-10-1999).]

11-11-1999, 12:49 AM	#63
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! OH NEVERMIND ITS ABOUT THE MOVIE screw the movie I WANT THE DAMN GAME hehehe ------------------ MILK CHOCOLATE RECORDS FOR LIVE!

11-11-1999, 12:53 AM	#64
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! BTW that guy sucks

11-11-1999, 06:47 AM	#65
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Did you do that at all or in any form? If so, I apologize and thats cool, but it just doesnt seem like it. If I created a signature character or weapon or something, and you guys used it without asking or giving any sort of recognition to it or ANYTHING then I'd be a little miffed too. And thats probably all Bruce is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You kinda missed the point. Did Bruce ask the general public if he could us "Groovy", "Ohhhh, that's gotta hurt", or "Who wants some?" I doubt it. Did he ask Elvis or whoever owns his copyrights if he could use "Hail to the King"? I doubt it. Listen to the way Duke says his lines, and the way Bruce says his. They are said completely differently... sound completely different, have different stresses and emphasis, etc. There is no reason to ask if we can use those lines... even if we didn't intend it as a homage or "in joke". Most of the time people are honored by homages made to something they did, Bruce seems to not be. If I were to make my guess it would be because Duke was unfortunately more successful with those lines than he was and is sick of being asked about it. I can understand the frustration over that, but to hint at legal action for something that he has no grounds to do... that's why I bounce around with "Parody laws... etc". Things are setup currently so that you don't have to ask 1000 odd people everytime you want to do something in your games, movies, books that is in reference to, parody of, homage to something. But let me ask this: Would Duke have sold any fewer units if those 4 lines had been deleted from the game? No. It would have sold the exact same amount. Duke is not defined by those 4 lines, but a combination of a ton of things. George Lucas used countless things in old movies, books, cultures to piece together the world that became Star Wars. He used names, phrases, locations to create something that was new and bigger than the parts that he pulled from. Do you think he asked those movies, etc. if he could borrow from them? Duke is the same setup. His world and his personality is pulled from many many avenues of pop culture with some "original" ideas as well. I quote original as there are no original ideas. Everything is a rehash, refinement, evolution of something else... even if you never knew of the original source. On a privately run bulletin board nobody has any rights except the person who owns it. If they want to delete everyone's posts and call them all Communist Swines who drink warm beer in a bathtub full of Jell-o, well... they can do that. Charlie Wiederhold

11-11-1999, 10:51 AM	#66
Tim Wilson Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Thats funny, I thought imitation was the biggest form of flattery.. When Weird Al does someones song, they take it as a sign of respect and homage to the artist. I think it was Nirvana that thought they'd finally "made it" as a band, when Weird Al approached them about doing one of their songs. I like Bruce, love the Evil Dead's, but I think he needs to lighten up. I'd agree with the previous ideas about Apogee/3DR probably couldn't have afforded him at the time, didn't know that Duke3D would take off like it did, and most likely didn't think sampling a couple of his lines would be such a big deal. They were just reflecting pop culture, like Waynes World and other farce movies do for laughs. You'd think he'd be happy he was included, I would have been ecstatic.

11-11-1999, 11:34 AM	#67
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! at some points, the 3dr guys say the sayings are random sayings that anyone could have come up with, and later, they say they did them as a direct result of him. Ya really should make up your mind. they either are taken from him, or they aren't. They have to be taken and used as parody, or it's just stealing someone else's idea. I think Duke3d qualified as parody, obviously the jury is still out on whether DNF will qualify as parody (I hope they do similar stuff, I really wanna see OJ back.) And if you want to use the Weird Al example, then I think a more appropriate example would have been Weird Al's "Amish Paridise" and how Coolio felt about that. Anyway, I don't know the bruce guy, and I thought the sayings in Duke were just fun.

11-11-1999, 11:59 AM	#68
CONAN	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! The lines were both taken from Bruce and not. They were taken as a direct result of the movies, but, since the movies weren't the first to use them, they TECHNICALLY weren't "taken" from the movies. They are really from the first people who said them, whom we don't know. ------------------ www.dukeworld.com/warfaretc 'Cuz you're sick of yourself... *WELL I'M SICK OF YOU TOO!!!!!*

11-11-1999, 01:44 PM	#69
Ajaxx	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Good ol' Charlie!! He hit the nail right on the head....with a 20 ton Nuke!!! BTW: I heard that an Evil Dead game is in developement for the playstation. It's called Evil Dead: Ashes 2 Ashes. So far, I've heard absolutely nothing about Bruce Campbell in association to this game, voice-overs or otherwise! I suppose that the creators of this game should be appologising to Bruce, too, shouldn't they?!! What a JERK!! ------------------ Ajaxx ICQ#15069804 __________________ "The difference between you and me is while you justify the rules, I just defy the rules..."- me

11-11-1999, 01:58 PM	#70
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! oh boy... this is fun... Hey JOE! Nobody wants to listen to reason, just lockup this thread please. ------------------ Personally, I think Jim Henson said it best when he said... "Anybody got any asprin? I think I got a cold." -Dennis Leary

11-11-1999, 02:54 PM	#71
WarHammer	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! This whole thread just needs one big family-sized Bucket O' Chill Out. 3D Realms was not the first to do this sort of thing. What about Space Balls? That was a giant parody of Star Wars and no other movie and even done in the same medium but does George Lucas care? No. At least Duke is a combonation of many different things. My parents and Millions others were saying "groovy" long before Bruce/Ash. 75% of everything in Duke may have been borrowed from other sources but that doesn't mean it's a rip-off. Parodys have been around alot longer than Bruce Campbell and Duke Nukem combined. BTW Charlie, how come you don't have 3DR on your screen name like everyone else? Are you a fugitive 3D Realms employee? Oh and if parodys are illegal then here is a page of Star Wars related debauchery the likes of which the world has never seen! http://www.visi.com/~blue/forceflicks/

11-11-1999, 03:43 PM	#72
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> The lines are his baby YOU KNOW WHERE THE LINES COME FROM THEY COME FROM EVIL DEAD2 and ARmy OF DARKNESS. Public Domain my ass. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> what the heck is Army of Darkness or Evil Dead? Never even heard of them. them or Bruce Camp-bell DUKE ROCKS BABY... Tachyon the Fringe is a good game, ya it is. but its NOTHING compared to duke nukem A space flight game Tachyon the fringe A ROCK YOU FRIGIN WORLD game... DUKE NUKEM ------------------ Ever played Legend of Zelda? If you have, you know what i am!

11-11-1999, 03:50 PM	#73
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Yea Octorok me either I have never heard of this dude either

11-11-1999, 08:24 PM	#74
Guest Guest	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! ErectBizkit: funny name man! limpbizkit erectbizkit lol the demo of tachyon the fringe was kinda dumb too... i wish you could land on planets ! ------------------ Ever played Legend of Zelda? If you have, you know what i am!

11-11-1999, 11:39 PM	#75
Dukefan	Re: Duke Nukem Forever gets dissed!! Anyone else notice that EvilAsh hasn't bothered to reply since Weider made his post? Go figure. Nothing about EvilAsh personally, but does anyone on the boards have any recollection at all of somebody, anybody coming out and saying "Sorry, you're right, I'm wrong, let's forget about it" after being "attacked" in an argument kinda like we all did? Nope, didn't think so. Oh boy MrPiccrd....you have no idea what you just said. Allow me to analyze your post: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There are nothing but rip-off artists working at 3D Realms. The whole DNF project is a giant rip-off. I used to be a HUGE fan of the Duke Nukem games and I'd been looking forward to part 4 for some time until I realized the plot line.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Rip-off artists? I don't see what the hell made you arrive at this conclusion. If you're referring to the fact that everything in Duke3D is taken from something else, then yes, Charlie Weiderhold already stated that. But the impression you're giving is that they did it for the sake of ripping off others. And to that I have to say you're wrong. Could you please explain yourself. Hey, you claim DNF is a rip-off, but a rip-off of what? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Las Vegas, Area 51, Hoover Dam? Bringing back an old Duke Nukem enemy? They're ripped ideas from people who used to post to 3DRealms' AOL boards, one person in particular.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wait a second: You're complaining that it's taking place in general Earth locations??? Well, where the hell do you want it to take place, Pluto? Seriously, you have to be on something if you think the concept of making the setting of a story on Earth a rip-off. By that logic, 99.9% of every story ever written ever is a rip-off! Hmm....I wouldn't know about the AOL boards...but did you pay attention to that little blurb at the bottom of the screen that says "The software is now loading." or something like that? It says: "Any solicited or non-solicited game idea, suggestion or comment (idea) that is mentioned in these forums becomes the intellectual property of Apogee Software Ltd., and might end up in one of our games without credit or monetary consideration given to the originator of the idea." In other words, you say something on their own boards, they can use it. OKOK I know that that is now, so does anybody know if something similar to that was on the AOL fourms? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There are probably more ripped ideas but I wouldn't know--I've never played D4Ever. 3D Realms does need to get some of its own writers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Geez you are seriously bent on criticizing them in every possible way. You've never played D4ever. You've never played D4ever. Just think about this for a second. You've never played it. OK, well I think I might know why. Just a thought, no clue if its true or not, going out on a limb here, but maybe, just maybe......because it hasn't been released yet. Think that might be it? Nah, couldn't be. So how the hell can you criticize the game you've never played??? You don't know any more about the game than we do. Probably less in fact. Therefore anything at all you say about Duke Nukem Forever is extremely uneducated and biased. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If 3DRealms staffers run this board, this message will probably be deleted, but it's worth a shot, eh?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So now you're suggesting they're commies. Uh, no. Your specific post isn't going anywhere. 3DR has been criticized more than that on these boards (well at least as much as you have) and they just let devoted board regulars like me take care of it. They're way more open and tolerant than that. And if I know anything about people that type that kind of stupid statment for thier first post, it's that after reading my rebuttal, you won't say a thing. Most people tend to slink away quietly into the night rather than just admit they're wrong, and put it behind them. But oh well. And I just know that's gonna spark some more people asking for the thread to be closed... ------------------ -Dukefan E-Mail: duke-nukem@home.com AOL IM: LurkerFilz