Commander Keen on the NES

[Frenkel]

John Romero has a flyer for Commander Keen on his website. He says it was created by Scott Miller. One of the things this flyer says is:

Commander Keen will also be available as a Nintendo cartridge, being released soon by a major American Nintendo publishing company.

Where is this cartridge and what is the name of this major American Nintendo publishing company?

[Daedolon]

Looks like it was planned but never published.

[Joe Siegler]

That never happened. It never got beyond the initial "idea" phase.

[Nukkus]

however David A. Palmer Productions did release an utterly craptastic Commander Keen game for the Gameboy Color.

[Joe Siegler]

That's something totally different.

[Nukkus]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

That's something totally different.

and yet they tried to make people think it wasn't. That;s the problem of farming out your characters, sometimes you get an awesome Manhattan project, sometimes you get a crappy Commander Keen debauchry.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by Nukkus

and yet they tried to make people think it wasn't. That;s the problem of farming out your characters, sometimes you get an awesome Manhattan project, sometimes you get a crappy Commander Keen debauchry.

WE didn't do the David Palmer thing. id Software did that.

[TerminX]

Originally Posted by Nukkus

and yet they tried to make people think it wasn't. That;s the problem of farming out your characters, sometimes you get an awesome Manhattan project, sometimes you get a crappy Commander Keen debauchry.

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

WE didn't do the David Palmer thing. id Software did that.

Seems like most of id's games had crappy ports at some point or another... the SNES versions of Wolf3D and Doom versus, say, the supposedly pretty awesome Jaguar versions are a good example.

[Nukkus]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

WE didn't do the David Palmer thing. id Software did that.

well duh -_-;
if i was talking about you guys, i'd have said "that's the problem with 3dr farming out it's characters". I was just using Manhattan Project of an example of a third party game going right. Doesn't mean i was blaming you guys for what id did when they let David A Palmer screw over their franchises. I mean cmon, freaking green blood in doom? The wolfenstein port was completely uncensored! It's like a reverse of what happened on the snes years ago. Moral of the story? Never let anyone mess around with your characters, cuz then you get crap like Jazz Jackrabbit GBA, and ET for the atari. Ok, i'm done ranting now, let's go out for a beer.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by TerminX

Seems like most of id's games had crappy ports at some point or another... the SNES versions of Wolf3D and Doom versus, say, the supposedly pretty awesome Jaguar versions are a good example.

Don't forget about the totally awesome Wolfenstein 3D port for the 3DO that like only 3 people (including me) got to play. It was based on the mac version, so snealing up on enemies was sacrificed, but damn, the music was pure ownage.

[DOSGuy]

Good gravy. E.T. for the Atari 2600 was possibly the worst game of all time. I can't believe that anyone felt justified in releasing the game in that condition.

It's easy to be nostalgic about that era now that you can pick up old games for 50 cents a piece at your local Goodwill. If the game sucks, who cares? It's worth remembering that, back then, there were a LOT of games that sucked, and they were up to $60 back then. Take inflation into account, and that was a lot of money to pay for an absolute piece of crap.

Also, since there was no world wide web, you couldn't just look up a review or watch a trailer on YouTube. Back then, all you had to go on was the name. You figured that no one would put out a bad game with "E.T." attached to it, but they did. You took your chances, and if you didn't know anyone who owned the game, it often came down to reputation. Which publishers could you trust?

That's one thing that I appreciated about Apogee. I don't think they ever put out a bad game. I'm serious. I like some games better than others, but at least you knew that you were going to get a halfway decent game and not feel screwed out of your money. It made me really mad that some companies would have the gall to sell a bad game for that kind of money, and a lot of those companies aren't around any more. The Apogee Model of try before you buy, and the fact that they refused to put out a bad game, is the reason why they're still here. Customer loyalty. What a concept.

[Nukkus]

Originally Posted by DOSGuy

...That's one thing that I appreciated about Apogee. I don't think they ever put out a bad game...

Xenophage.

[TerminX]

I liked Xenophage... when I was a kid, and didn't know any better.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by TerminX

Seems like most of id's games had crappy ports at some point or another... the SNES versions of Wolf3D and Doom versus, say, the supposedly pretty awesome Jaguar versions are a good example.

Well, the Wolf3D port was crappy because of the restrictions put on id by Nintendo. Had they not have been there, it would have been quite nice. Can't blame id for that.

Now the David Palmer Keen game.. That was just crappy.

Never played any Doom ports (unless you count the Xbox Live version), so I can't comment on them.

Originally Posted by DOSGuy

Good gravy. E.T. for the Atari 2600 was possibly the worst game of all time. I can't believe that anyone felt justified in releasing the game in that condition.

Learn the full story behind that, please.

[DOSGuy]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Learn the full story behind that, please.

Oh, I know the story behind it. I wouldn't make that kind of declaration if I didn't know what I was talking about. I didn't want to go into detail because it was off-topic. The game was rushed, being developed in only 5 weeks. It must have been obvious that the game was terrible, but they sold it anyway. I realize that there are deadlines in the real world, and not every company is able to release software "when it's done." But someone at Atari/Warner should have shat themselves when they saw it, declared "we have a serious problem, we cannot sell this game as it is now", and called a meeting to discuss options. But someone at some level felt justified selling it anyway and, after all these years, it is not only widely regarded as the worst game ever made, but as the beginning of the end of not only the Atari empire, but the American video game industry.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial is a video game based on the film of the same name developed by Howard Scott Warshaw and released by Atari Inc. for the Atari 2600 video game system in 1982. The goal of the game is to fall into holes in order to find phone pieces to assemble so that E.T. can return home. With few exceptions, critics and gamers alike feel that it was a poorly produced and rushed game that Atari thought would sell purely based on brand loyalty to the names of Atari and E.T.

E.T. is seen as marking the beginning of Atari's downfall and is often viewed as one of the biggest commercial failures in video gaming history, as well as the worst video game ever made. E.T. was a contributing factor to Atari's massive financial losses during 1983 and 1984, and a glut of unsold copies of the game helped contribute to the video game crash of 1983. As a result of overproduction, hundreds of thousands of unsold cartridges were reportedly buried in a New Mexican landfill.

...

Although the movie it was based on was critically well-received, the game version of E.T. has been almost universally panned by critics, and is one of the most commonly chosen candidates for worst video game of all time. Seanbaby ranked it #1 in a list of the 20 worst games of all time in Electronic Gaming Monthly's 150th issue. Michael Dolan, deputy editor of FHM magazine, has also ranked it as his pick for the #1 worst video game of all time. PC World also placed E.T. at the top of its list for worst video games of all time, with writer Emru Townsend noting that, "About a third of the people I quizzed came up with this title almost instantly, and it's not hard to see why."

The video game crash of 1983 brought down the Atari, Intellivision (Mattel), and Colecovision (COnneticut LEather COmpany), all of which were American products. After that, video game production was dominated by Japanese companies Nintendo, Sega, and Sony for the next two decades.

Did E.T. destroy America's dominance in the video game industry? No, that would be drawing an unfair conclusion. Atari became fragmented, and developers of its various consoles and home computers were actually competing with each other, intentionally making their systems incompatible with each other. A company divided against itself cannot stand. Allowing E.T. to be sold the way it was was only one of the calamitous decisions that brought down the company. But the fact remains, sales were driven by the fact that their fans expected a game bearing both the Atari and E.T. names to be good, and it was a huge blow to Atari's customer appreciation and loyalty when it wasn't. If you attach your good name to garbage, it's not a good name any more.

Anyway, I apologize for the rant, but I felt the need to defend my understanding of the subject. I'm a video game historian. You may not agree with all of my conclusions, but at least my opinions are well researched. If I make a statement like "worst game of all time", you can be sure that I know the story behind it.

[Little Conqueror]

In Palmer's defense, the GBA Keen game was a good game. It just wasn't a good Keen game. The only guy who can make those is Tom Hall, and I would donate $500 just to try to help him buy back the rights.

[Dopefish7590]

So would I...

[Dreams]

me too

[Joe Siegler]

You guys are totally mising the point. It's not Tom. It's id.

It's IP rights. They don't want to give it up because they know if someone ever wants to make another one, they hold onto it, so they can get a cut of the pie.

It really is as simple as that.

[DOSGuy]

Yes, listen to Joe. It's a lovely sentiment, but it's getting a bit repetitive. If you seriously want to start a donation drive to help buy the rights from id, I suggest talking to Tom Hall. He could at least tell you if it's realistic or not (most likely not).

[Little Conqueror]

Nowhere did I say I was contemplating it. There's not any rule against hyperbole, right?

Of course it's all up to id. Everybody knows that and nobody is saying otherwise. I'm basically saying I'd pay that much money for a new Keen game that doesn't suck.

[DOSGuy]

If you'd really pay that much, it's not hyperbole! I see good intentions from Keen fans, but there's a saying that goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I contact game authors all the time and most of them respond. I seriously think that someone should contact Tom Hall and ask him if there would be any value to Keen fans organizing and starting some kind of fundraising drive. If he says no, then at least you asked. I'm a Browncoat, and we got a canceled TV series turned into a major motion picture. I think Joe is finding it burdensome to point out that 3DRealms has no say in what happens to the Keen franchise, but the idea has merit.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." — Margaret Mead

[Xonic]

The SNES port of Doom wasn't as bad as the SNES port of Wolf3d in my opinion. Sure, Doom suffered from memory constraints and stuff, but at least they didn't censor the shit out of it.

[Nukkus]

I thought Tom and John Romero bought the Keen rights back when they started Monkeystone...

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by Nukkus

I thought Tom and John Romero bought the Keen rights back when they started Monkeystone...

Nope. Always have remained with id.

[jayo]

Originally Posted by TerminX

Seems like most of id's games had crappy ports at some point or another... the SNES versions of Wolf3D and Doom versus, say, the supposedly pretty awesome Jaguar versions are a good example.

The Keen game for GBC wasn't a port, it was a new adventure. Didn't like it as much! If Tom can't re-acquire the rights, maybe id should develop a new Keen game in conjunction with Tom's company, that way he could supervise it.

They say Tom was upset when Super Mario 64 came out. I'd hate to see him now that there's Super Mario Galaxy. That could have been a good, fresh Keen game!

[Rider]

So wouldn't it be plausible to think that iD could let Tom Hall create a new Keen game? Have him direct the project, essentially being the driving force behind the game (which worked for all Tom's Keen games so far...) and they'd just get to stamp their label on it and have him release it?

I mean... then iD gets to keep the IP and Tom Hall gets to make a true Keen game. Sounds to me like everyone would be happy.

Originally Posted by jayo

They say Tom was upset when Super Mario 64 came out. I'd hate to see him now that there's Super Mario Galaxy. That could have been a good, fresh Keen game!

I believe he was upset because he wanted to do the same thing with keen, make a 3d platformer and, IIRC, wanted to have a Zoo with all the alien in it.

[Jinroh]

Yeah, I remember reading that somewhere. He just wanted to make a 3D Platformer.

[oak man]

Originally Posted by TerminX

Seems like most of id's games had crappy ports at some point or another... the SNES versions of Wolf3D and Doom versus, say, the supposedly pretty awesome Jaguar versions are a good example.

Hey I loved the Doom SNES port, I still own the cartridge! When I was little it got me into the fps!...And also scared the crap outa me...

[Jinroh]

Originally Posted by oak man

Hey I loved the Doom SNES port, I still own the cartridge! When I was little it got me into the fps!...And also scared the crap outa me...

Yeah I've got it too. Bought it a few years ago MIB at a Flea Market for $8 very awesome stuff.

[Retodon8]

Originally Posted by The Stinger

I believe he was upset because he wanted to do the same thing with keen, make a 3d platformer and, IIRC, wanted to have a Zoo with all the alien in it.

TUIT was supposed to be released Christmas 1992, but it never was because of Wolfenstein 3D.
It would've been a new trilogy of 3D games "halfway between Super Mario 64 and Pandemonium".
(That is a direct copy paste.)
SM64 got quite a bit of good press, so I can imagine Tom being disappointed TUIT never was.
I am too.

Tom recently (a month ago) mentioned he's still planning on getting the rights from id, so that's cool!
Oh, I just found he said that in May already as well.
I'm with you guys hoping he'll succeed!

[Xonic]

If anyone would do an unofficial port of COmmander Keen as an emulation project, I would be more than happy to do sound effects programming as I have some experience with that.

[DOSGuy]

I'm confused. If it's an emulation project, then the goal would be to emulate the original game in other environments (i.e. DOSBox). It sounds like you're talking about porting (i.e. rewriting or recompiling) the game, so maybe you mean a simulation project? Anyway, what system are you hoping to port it to?

[Retodon8]

Unless I missed it, no Keen source code has been released.
I'm afraid it's actually gone... although I heard a rumor about John Romero having it years ago, but nothing came of that (yet anyway).
You can't port without the source code (maybe decompile, reverse engineer to get a version of it, but that's not legal).

[Xonic]

I suppose you could make an entire new engine from scratch.

[DOSGuy]

Which brings us back to simulation. The question is, why bother when you can just use an emulator to play the real game?

[Xonic]

Originally Posted by DOSGuy

Which brings us back to simulation. The question is, why bother when you can just use an emulator to play the real game?

Just for the experiment I suppose and because it was supposed to be done.