How do you feel about Sam Lake not being Max?

[gta]

Spazer you said it all, i totally agree with you

[RollingBrass]

Originally posted by hemlock_0:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RollingBrass:
I wish I could put this in nice terms, but you people are morons.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that is exactly the kind of comment that makes this difficult in the first place. Asker has an opinion, and that doesn't make him (or any of us) a moron. Yeah, the new Max is cool. No, he's not the Max we're used to. Taking either side is fine. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but threatening to not buy the game unless your demands are met is downright dumb.

Originally posted by hemlock_0:
Why does a complaint about the face have to draw so much retaliation? If the guy feels that badly about the face issue, let him. I'm just as upset about the new face, but I'm still going to be buying the game. Boycotting the game is extreme, and I believe that a true fan must be both affected by the face change and determined to play the game anyway.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't mind if people don't like the face, but saying you won't buy the game simply due to the fact is just so.....stupid. That's what's getting me aggravated in this thread.

[ 07-14-2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: RollingBrass ]

[Qtipie]

Originally posted by Spazer:
and i dont get what this constipation crap was about, never did max look like he was constipated

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">constipated...man i hate that ****ING word!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

i was upset when i saw those first screenies. and yes i complained, too. but all that whining and moaning won't help a damn, cause remedy is not. going. to. change. the. face. no matter. what.
the sooner you make up with that new look the better. all of you who say they won't buy the game w/o sam as max: i feel SO sorry for you....

[Hudson]

Originally posted by Marty:
i say "bring back Sam!" but i dont think the new face is terrible. i just think Sam did a terrific job and there was no reason to change that.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AMEN!

[biXen]

But there was a damn reason. It might be Remedy's last Max Payne game. No new developer studio is gonna drag Sam Lake's ass down to a photosession to use him in the future.

Now that they could afford it they introduced proper actors into the cast, which is for the best for the game, simple as that.

[j]

Originally posted by Spazer:
you wont be looking at the back of his head 99 percent of the time. cuttscenes, those chapter/comic book things like in max 1, ect.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess that's why RB said 75% [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Jade]

Why you're going on with this discussion?

[hemlock_0]

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
I don't mind if people don't like the face, but saying you won't buy the game simply due to the fact is just so.....stupid. That's what's getting me aggravated in this thread.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fair enough! I totally understand your frustration with this, as I've been feeling it too, both ways. It's the extreme views that make these kinds of discussions so tough.

[asker]

DevilMaster, I have an idea. We'll have to get into private communication, though. I'll see if there's a PM system or something on the board through which we can exchange e-mail addresses.

[kemical]

bah. from the media we have seen so far, i think the graphic novel / non ingame stuff looks exactly the same and very good, the ingame max payne looks great also, and looks the same to me, matches up with the graphic novels of the first and second much more, except he looks too lax (as i said in my other post lol) in the screenshots, and hopefully will have a hardened expression of the current while shooting.

[asker]

So what you're saying is that we should go and buy every game that is released so we can decide if we like them or not?

Uhh... what's the point of the released media again?

[hemlock_0]

Um...yeah...don't be too quick to pass judgement, but having to play the game to form an opinion does invalidate the preliminary media...I think he (Joe) is just saying to give it a chance, in his own way.

[biXen]

This is like the stupidest thing EVER. Come on ffs. I'd agree with you guys if it was a movie, if they replaced De Niro with some other fool for a new Goodfellas or something, but these guys are in a GAME, they aren't acting. There is no difference, this guy is an actor, it was a needed move, he fits the role as a tough rugged cop WAY more than Sam did eventhough I liked his look too.

Get a grip, please...

[Mad_Max]

And the saga of people overreacting over such a simple thing that is the character's main look continues. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Sure, we all had our share of surprise because of the new Max, but saying that you won't buy the game for this sole reason is purely dumb. I highly guess that most people thinking this way are the ones who believe that the graphics must be a game's best point. The change of look will not change at all the way the game will be played, plus it shows out that Remedy aren't making a quick re-hash of Max Payne 1 with some new levels and stuff, like certain people might have believed in the past. Just think of it as a brand new game.

Apart from that, I think that Rollingbrass said everything else which needed to be heard within this argument.

Bring back Sam Lake.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally posted by asker:
It IS too late to change it, but that doesn't mean we have to accept the change. Tolerate it, perhaps we must, but there are those of us who will NEVER accept it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the entire question is invalid - and the reason why is that you've not played the game. You've not seen the new stuff in context. How about waiting until you actually play the game, see it all in context before making comments like that?

Oh no - we can't do that. Doesn't fit the matra of "Online forums must overract about everything" - what was I thinking?

[suprahukka]

Originally posted by asker:
So what you're saying is that we should go and buy every game that is released so we can decide if we like them or not?

Uhh... what's the point of the released media again?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jesus. If it's all about the face, you don't even deserve the sequel. I bet you are just complaining for the sake of it. And you can't back up now, because it would mean we are right. The most angering thing is, that you just can't see it from another perspective. That being Remedy's and their reasons for not using Järvi anymore.

Now I am starting to remember why I didn't have anything to do with gaming communities for many years....

[Co11]

You're so silly joe

[scorpion]

it's not all about the face it about the game and how it plays the face is just a small portion of the game. this is a ridiculous thing to whine and cry about

[Spazer]

joe, that is different dude. we are telling remedy they are making a huge mistake replacing max BEFORE it has any negative effects on the series. we have seen the screenshots, the only difference PLAYING the game is that we will see more of max in cutseens and those comic book things..meaning we will see more of the thing we hate the most: max being replaced with someone different. if max was started with that look then there wouldnt be a problem

we dont want to just sit here and let it happen because the game will suck for us

we are the ones that give you our money and make your game the huge success in the end (i know i know, you guys made it and you rock but in the end its the PROFIT...you're a business)

[biXen]

Spazer: I guess the fact that there's 1% that REALLY cares if they change the face doesn't matter to you?

It's like those people who tried to convince us that Max Payne was a bug-ridden game when it came out, cause "everyone" had problems.

There's 10 people in this forum, out of maybe 1000 users that stop by the Max Payne forums (maybe not all of them posting) who really cares if they change the face, and can't see the obvious reasons. The ratio will be even less outside this fan circle. It was changed for a reason, eventhough most of us liked Sam as Max, why can't you just accept that and stop sobbing?

[suprahukka]

Originally posted by biXen:
Spazer: I guess the fact that there's 1% that REALLY cares if they change the face doesn't matter to you?

It's like those people who tried to convince us that Max Payne was a bug-ridden game when it came out, cause "everyone" had problems.

There's 10 people in this forum, out of maybe 1000 users that stop by the Max Payne forums (maybe not all of them posting) who really cares if they change the face, and can't see the obvious reasons. The ratio will be even less outside this fan circle. It was changed for a reason, eventhough most of us liked Sam as Max, why can't you just accept that and stop sobbing?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen.

I don't think there is a reason to carry out this fight anymore...

[Cyberfish]

--> How do you feel about Sam Lake not being Max?

Sam go! Sam go!
Sam will return to Max Payne 3! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Sam Lake rules...

[j]

Originally posted by Spazer:
if max was started with that look then there wouldnt be a problem

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So-o-o.. what you're saying is that there would be nothing wrong with the new face if it had been Max's face from the beginning? That you'd be happy even with this face if it had been in MP1?

What are you complaining about, if there's nothing wrong with the new face, except for the fact that it wasn't Max's face in the first game? Maybe you should mod it into MP1 and play that game with the new face, then play MP2 with the same face and be happy?

(I personally don't like the new face (though I like the way it looks in the new graphic novel shots), as I think it looks like a whole different kind of person, but I'll live with it. I'll play the game and have a hell of a time.)

And please excuse me, I was rambling.

WHy do people like the new modell better? More detail. Had it been modelled in the likeness of Sam Lake, I'm sure 90% of the people here would prefer it to the current model.

[asker]

This isn't a discussion about the quality of the modelling... hands down, the new model of higher quality.

I don't even care what the in-game model looks like. I can't remember the last time I played Max Payne with the default model.

For me, the big deal is the graphic novel sequences. I don't like the idea of seeing some other guy's mug where Max should be.

[Spazer]

i cant believe giving feedback to a game that isnt finished yet, and the dev could use this feedback, is considered complaining. if the game was done and i went to best buy and saw it and was like WTF?!..then came here and started posting about it then yes, it would be complaining.

but the game isnt finished, and we're simply saying that completely changing what the main character looks like, in a game that is so centered around that character, is a bad idea.

and yeah, i do think the new model is cool and im not dissing whoever designed it. but its the main character, the complete change in his appearance (which we will notice so much..cutt seens / story boards / ect) and it will be so weird and take away the awesome effect

sam max had this awesome badass look and feeling, his look and voice was a perfect match. looked like someone really on the verge of insanity.

now he just looks like a depressed 40 year old accountant who lures little girls into his car with candy.

[biXen]

Sam looked too young for the image we got of Max through the story and voice I think. Besides, it's a done thing, it won't change. It's a decision done, a lot of work is done, and that's that. You might as well complain when the game is in the stores. It's also a required move, cause Sam is Remedy, and Remedy isn't tied to Max Payne any longer than for Max Payne 2.

[Spazer]

i wasn't aware you worked for remedy or 3drealms? if you dont then you do not know this, because i have not seen one 3drealms OR remedy employee post here that it is final and done, cant be changed period.

and afaik, sam is remedy employee, and remedy is devs of max payne so what is the problem. unless he doesnt want to do it then fine.

i dont know the reason why they changed max, but if i did..and it was a real reason then i wouldnt be giving my feedback to the new max..id just accept it. but for now, afaik they are still working on it and they have the time to take the feedback of all these people and do a quick change so quit trying to hate on me for it. it wont add another year to the dev time if they do change it

again, i dont know why they did it or what would be involved so dont flame me for it. ive been trying to read through all these threads but ive yet to see wtf is going on

[Jokke_r]

duh. the game is out this fall that means after a couple of months. so thinking that they allready have screenshots of the graphic novels and ingame scenes. i highly doubt they are not finished with that part and it would be a HUGE setback if theyd haveto redo all the graphic novels model art posters pictures and everything. YOU CAN NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE ANYMORE. stop whining IT IS DONE... i don't get how someone whines about something this much...

Over at a finnish forum everyone loved the new look. they said it might take some time getting used to it but they werent dissing it or anything like some people here. they said he looks much better now and this is how he should had looked in Max Payne 1...

[biXen]

Spazer: Rockstar wanted it changed because it's more professional to have pro actors doing the roles, and also Max Payne 2 will probably be the last Max Payne related stuff Remedy does, so they are not going to drag Sam Lake out for photoshoots for Max Payne 3,4,5... Those are some of the reasons, as Jokke_r also says, it's WAY too much work to change, it's a done deal. Just accept it, stop acting like a baby who doesn't get candy.

[Spazer]

no u

i didnt know it was that far ahead and alot more too it..now i know so now i stoofoo

let me in on da 411 more often yo.. i be 2fast 2furious im hardcore g WEST SIIEDD IN DA HIZZOUSE

[j]

Did you forget to take your dried frog pills or something? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[hemlock_0]

Wow. Almost everything I'm reading in here suggests that everyone is missing each others' point.

Side A: changing the face is bad, since they love the character so much that they have come to really feel an attachment to their perceived identity of Max, and they are hurt that such a major part of the character would be changed in what seems so abrupt a manner.

Side B: hears whining and promises of extreme measures being taken, thinks the complaint puts graphics at the top of the list, and stops listening.

How can a fan do anything other than be affected by the face change but still play the game? And what seems to be a childish outburst may really just be poorly vented frustration over a valid issue. Still, at the end of the day it's going to be the new guy, it's going to take some getting used to, and we're going to end up liking it. So there. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Hudson]

Originally posted by asker:
For me, the big deal is the graphic novel sequences. I don't like the idea of seeing some other guy's mug where Max should be.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats the problem I was having the most trouble with. However it doesn't mean that its going to make the game horrible.. just.. different. Kinda like the 007 flicks. Sure Pierce is no Sean Connery.. but he gets the job done.

[zakath]

we want sami järvi !

[biXen]

Hudson: your comparison is whack. First off, Connery looks a LOT better than Pierce Brosnan, he's a great actor (one of our time's best), and he's funnier without making it look put on. Brosnan is a b-actor who's only played in crap except Bond, doesn't look that good, and bla bla. It's like gold and stone comparison

+
These are ACTORS. The Max Payne face is a face, nothing else. The new guy looks good, he looks rugged, his acting skills doesn't matter, it's not like any movie actor at all.

[Jade]

We are going to exagerate with this complaining...

Yeah , the face play a good part in the "charima" of the character...and that was good in the first MP. Now, we have a new chapiter, a new face, and maybe a new atmosphere...lets discuss when the game will be out please. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Cyberfish]

Hopefully Max Payne keeps his old rough voice [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[scorpion]

don't worry the same voice actor is bring used [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-17-2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: scorpion ]