Is the situation Take-Two's Fault?

ultra tree 85! · 03-11-2010, 02:30 PM

Hi, I've come to the conclusion that Take-Two's hostility and greed is the reason that 3D Realms wasn't able to just finish DNF on their planned internal schedule, which would have put DNF out next month. As everyone can see in the legal documentation, Take-Two visited 3DR several times and told the company that they were pleased with how things were going. Then, in late 2008, negotiations for funding to handle the internal development of multiplayer and the xbox 360 version, as well as pushing the game to release in general began. 3D Realms was verbally promised six million dollars initially, and so they dedicated funding and resources to the development of the xbox 360 and multiplayer components, which they wouldn't have done if they hadn't thought financial support was coming. As a direct result of Take-Two's lies and hostile false promises, 3D Realms was forced to fire its internal staff when Take-Two refused to provide the funding. Had they provided said funding, we'd all be preparing to play DNF as we speak, and 3D realms would still be fully operational.

Take-Two is a horrendous company anyway, and the games that they create aren't worth even looking at. GTA 4 was so stupid that I played for 30 minutes, got sick of it, and never put it into my 360 again. 3D Realms deserves better than this, and I would welcome the day that 3D Realms gets out of the contract and finds a better company to publish the game. I don't want to see the sickening Take-Two logo on the DNF box, anyway.

So, what's your opinion on this issue? Should the publisher be blamed?

Boosh · 03-11-2010, 02:43 PM

Duke's New Chainsaw · 03-11-2010, 03:26 PM

Someone take the "Post New Topic" button away from this guy.

crunchy superman · 03-11-2010, 03:36 PM

I miss Joe.

ultra tree 85! · 03-11-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke's New Chainsaw

Someone take the "Post New Topic" button away from this guy.

Why? I'm just trying to ask the community important questions and bring everyone together for discussion on the relevant issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

I miss Joe.

So, what's your opinon about who is at fault?

crunchy superman · 03-11-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

So, what's your opinon about who is at fault?

1) We've not been given enough information by either party to make such a judgment.

2) Nothing we could do about it if we had been.

3) We still wouldn't be playing the game in any case.

4) . . . profit?

KO Gilligan · 03-11-2010, 04:52 PM

in the

SITUATION ROOM

someguy2435 · 03-11-2010, 04:56 PM

TBZ · 03-11-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

So, what's your opinon about who is at fault?

I'd say it's pretty obvious it's your fault.

Duke's New Chainsaw · 03-11-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

Why? I'm just trying to ask the community important questions and bring everyone together for discussion on the relevant issues.

Er... no. You are regurgitating the same bullshit that's been said in other threads.

03-11-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBZ

I'd say it's pretty obvious it's your fault.

Listen to this man! He speaks the truth!

Rapture_Rising · 03-11-2010, 05:04 PM

ITS 3DR's FAULT.

If 3DR didnt take 12 [insert swear here] years to develop one [insert swear here] game then they wouldnt be in this mess.

Duke's New Chainsaw · 03-11-2010, 05:05 PM

03-11-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapture_Rising

ITS 3DR's FAULT.

If 3DR didnt take 12 poopie years to develop one poopie game then they wouldnt be in this mess.

MrBohica · 03-11-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

Why? I'm just trying to ask the community important questions

Kid, look. These questions you're posting aren't important in the least, because in the end, it's not going to matter who WE THINK is at fault.
These useless poll threads you're making are doing nothing but inducing rage and taking up space that could better be used otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

GTA 4 was so stupid that I played for 30 minutes, got sick of it, and never put it into my 360 again.

Don't get me started on how short an attention span you must have for only playing it for 30 minutes and deeming it "stupid".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

3D Realms deserves better than this, and I would welcome the day that 3D Realms gets out of the contract and finds a better company to publish the game.

This is a freaking two way street, kid. It was in no way shape or form 100% 3DR's or T2's fault. A 13 year delay was 3DR's demise, and T2 just snapped, and I honestly don't blame them.

By the by, don't kid yourself. An April release date wasn't going to happen, no matter who said it.

JobivanHiob · 03-11-2010, 05:14 PM

its Take 2 fault due to the reasons you mentioned!

Its true that 3DR needed a tremendous time to get to the final version of DNF. But they had the right to do so! Take 2 just got unpatient with them and also wanted to grab the Duke IP, so they sued them even with only 1 % chance of winning the case! But as 3DR already said Take 2 is basing their suit on nothing but wishful thinking!
They just thought, hey lets sue these guys we are the big publisher they are just a small studio! Take 2 just sued 3DR because they could! And this is a problem of the us-legal system!
And let me say this, Take 2 would be very stupid to let the case go on for another 1 or 2 years! Because in the end they won't get either the Duke IP and maybe neither the chance to publish a state of the art DNF!

I just hope that Take 2 brings this stupid lawsuit to an end in the very near future! But I also know of some "banksters" that invest in the weak € to profit from it and in the end will bring the financial system to a crash harming themselfs by this irrepealable! Not even mentioning the world financial crisis in the 1929!

Take 2 don't be stupid! Release DNF!

Conan of Cooma · 03-11-2010, 05:17 PM

Take 2 tried to finish and release DNF, 3DR blocked them.

Don't be an ass clown.

This is 3DR fault.

MrBohica · 03-11-2010, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan of Cooma

Take 2 tried to finish and release DNF, 3DR blocked them.

Don't be an ass clown.

This is 3DR fault.

What he said.

vitaminr · 03-11-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

GTA 4 was so stupid that I played for 30 minutes, got sick of it, and never put it into my 360 again.

Also, implying a distributor of all things creates games, even a publisher has more to do with it than that.

Damien_Azreal · 03-11-2010, 05:25 PM

Is the situation Take2's fault? Hmm.... who do we blame here.

The publisher, who just had a distribution contract to release the game.... or the developer that did not deliver the game so the publisher could release it.

Wow. That's a tough one.

JobivanHiob · 03-11-2010, 05:26 PM

LOL Conan!

Of course Take 2 wanted DNF to be released some years before! But you know what, it wouldn't have been the game you would expected from 3DR!
The last versions of DNF weren't the quality level you would expect from 3DR!

Only the last incarnation from around beginning of 2007 until now is what you expect a sequel of famous DN3D! One can argue if the time from 1997 to 2006 was worth spend of course!
But I say despite 3DR wasted some months of develoment time, the 10 years were needed to get to the point they were in May 2009 and most certainly are now with the game!

MrBohica · 03-11-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

Of course Take 2 wanted DNF to be released some years before! But you know what, it wouldn't have been the game you would expected from 3DR!

Oh hey! And guess what!?
With 13 years of production, 3DR still has nothing to show for it but a couple teaser trailers with some shiny pictures. Sure they made the Duke franchise that captivated gamers for years, but honestly, they're nothing as of right now compared to larger companies.

Eagle · 03-11-2010, 05:40 PM

The guilt rests solely on george for taking so long. His addiction to drugs supports crime and even terrorism.

JobivanHiob · 03-11-2010, 05:48 PM

MrBohica the good comes to those who wait!

I would love to see a trailer too, but right now they can't release any media due to the suit!
But I appreciate that Scott and George are of the oppinion that too much media can kill the hype! 1-2 proper trailers, a few gameplay clips, a few screenshots and some more info in game magazines will be enough before the release!

wow I can't remember when I last talked about releasing media for DNF!

MrBohica · 03-11-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

MrBohica the good comes to those who wait!

Then be prepared to wait another decade---end of your life. It's not happening anytime soon.

ultra tree 85! · 03-11-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

The guilt rests solely on george for taking so long.

What about Take-Two's hostile attempt to take the Duke IP and deny 3D Realms the agreed funding?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

I heard from the dallas sex industry that he is addicted to cocaine

That was just a joke that he made during the Jace Hall interview, he wasn't being serious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

this should be punishable with the death sentence.

The death sentence is utterly inhumane and barbaric, and no modern nation has any excuse to ever engage in this practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

His addiction to drugs supports crime and even terrorism.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

TBZ · 03-11-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Now you know how we feel every time you make a new thread.

Duke's New Chainsaw · 03-11-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

But you know what, it wouldn't have been the game you would expected from 3DR!

But I say despite 3DR wasted some months of develoment time, the 10 years were needed to get to the point they were in May 2009 and most certainly are now with the game!

JobivanHyberbole

fast-1 · 03-11-2010, 07:59 PM

I rock the vote to say loadsofmoney.

GrimWoman · 03-11-2010, 08:06 PM

Take2 and 3DR are both at fault, 3DR took forever, Take2 made it take longer.

Bam050196 · 03-11-2010, 08:16 PM

I agree with ReaperMan.

Scotty · 03-11-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

Hi, I've come to the conclusion that Take-Two's hostility and greed is the reason that 3D Realms wasn't able to just finish DNF on their planned internal schedule, which would have put DNF out next month. As everyone can see in the legal documentation, Take-Two visited 3DR several times and told the company that they were pleased with how things were going. Then, in late 2008, negotiations for funding to handle the internal development of multiplayer and the xbox 360 version, as well as pushing the game to release in general began. 3D Realms was verbally promised six million dollars initially, and so they dedicated funding and resources to the development of the xbox 360 and multiplayer components, which they wouldn't have done if they hadn't thought financial support was coming. As a direct result of Take-Two's lies and hostile false promises, 3D Realms was forced to fire its internal staff when Take-Two refused to provide the funding. Had they provided said funding, we'd all be preparing to play DNF as we speak, and 3D realms would still be fully operational.

If TTWO didn't offer the $6M in the first place, what would have been the outcome?

Given that 12 years and $20M (rumored) have gone by already, is it reasonable to assume that 3DR would've somehow completed the PC version of DNF before cash ran out if the XBox diversion had never occurred?

Eagle · 03-11-2010, 09:08 PM

g and s could of squeezed 5 mil from their personal assets to finish dnf but instead they approached t2 for it and when t2 declined they shut down the shop, they had someone else to blame for their failure of dnf...thats all they needed to can the whole project, a scapegoat. If they really wanted to finish it they could of pulled it off. the most probable truth is that 5 mil was not enough to finish it and they were really after a scapegoat to take the hit. g and s were quick to fire everyone and close it down without even considering selling off their personal assets. dnf was killed with a self inflicting wound after they realized they did not have the ground breaking content that the communitie was expecting. did you see any interactivity at all in any of the leaked footage? they did not have a revolutionary game, they had a mediocre half finished game and they killed it before it was exposed.

Conan of Cooma · 03-11-2010, 09:11 PM

Somebody shoot me now!

GrimWoman · 03-11-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conan of cooma

somebody shoot me now!

Bang!!!

MrBohica · 03-11-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

What about Take-Two's hostile attempt to take the Duke IP and deny 3D Realms the agreed funding?

What about the 13 year delay? Put it in perspective, T2 is honestly the only company EVER that would EVER in their RIGHT MIND back a company for so long with no product. T2 has every right in the book to be hostile and angry with 3DR, and if you deny it, then you're blinded by your own ignorance.

ultra tree 85! · 03-11-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBohica

What about the 13 year delay? Put it in perspective, T2 is honestly the only company EVER that would EVER in their RIGHT MIND back a company for so long with no product. T2 has every right in the book to be hostile and angry with 3DR, and if you deny it, then you're blinded by your own ignorance.

I disagree fundamentally with what you're saying. There is no justification for malicious, misleading activity during business negotiations. There also wasn't any justification for a lawsuit in this case, either. Some people believe that 3D Realms in some way violated the contract themselves, providing justification for legal action against them after the collapse. However, that couldn't be further from the truth. 3D Realms was not required to complete the game within any amount of time, and they were free to pursue their own schedule due to the fact that it was funded internally. They owe Take-Two nothing, and I don't know why everyone here seems to think that they do. The contract includes nothing on the subject of deadlines, and Take-Two's "implied deadline" argument in their legal filings is the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life.

MrBohica · 03-11-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

3D Realms was not required to complete the game within any amount of time, and they were free to pursue their own schedule due to the fact that it was funded internally.

And yet you're still going to complain that T2 backed out of funding and was royally pissed? They were given more than a decade, so I'm not sure why you're getting butt-hurt at T2.

THIRTEEN YEEEARS.

Okay so it's a two-way street. Both are at fault. But I don't understand why you're all like
"HERPDERP T2 SCREWED IT UP, THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM 7 MORE YEARS, THEN WE'D HAVE DNF"
That's not how it happens. Like I said, T2 is the only company that would stick through for so long to see a final product, and if they found 13 years too long, then so be it.

ultra tree 85! · 03-11-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBohica

And yet you're still going to complain that T2 backed out of funding and was royally pissed? They were given more than a decade, so I'm not sure why you're getting butt-hurt at T2.

THIRTEEN YEEEARS.

Okay so it's a two-way street. Both are at fault. But I don't understand why you're all like
"HERPDERP T2 SCREWED IT UP, THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM 7 MORE YEARS, THEN WE'D HAVE DNF"
That's not how it happens. Like I said, T2 is the only company that would stick through for so long to see a final product, and if they found 13 years too long, then so be it.

3D Realms needed only one more year to finish the game, and Take-Two knew it. They also knew that 3D Realms was running low on funds, so they took advantage of them, mislead the company, and tried to take everything that they'd worked for. They planned to take the nearly completed game and release it for themselves when they could have just given 3D Realms one more years' funding.

MrBohica · 03-11-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultra tree 85!

3D Realms needed only one more year to finish the game, and Take-Two knew it.

Oh.
My.
God.
Open your eyes.
How many times have we been told that they "Guys, we only need [Insert REALISTIC TIME here], don't even worry about it."
This "1 more year" bullcrap is nothing new.

View Poll Results: Is the situation Take-Two's fault?
Yes	26	39.39%
No	40	60.61%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

03-11-2010, 05:25 PM	#20
Damien_Azreal Super Moderator	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? Is the situation Take2's fault? Hmm.... who do we blame here. The publisher, who just had a distribution contract to release the game.... or the developer that did not deliver the game so the publisher could release it. Wow. That's a tough one. __________________ Monolith Fanboy since 1997 Upcoming Anticipated Games: Doom, Shadow Warrior 2, Mafia III, DisHonored 2, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

03-11-2010, 02:30 PM	#1
ultra tree 85!	Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? Hi, I've come to the conclusion that Take-Two's hostility and greed is the reason that 3D Realms wasn't able to just finish DNF on their planned internal schedule, which would have put DNF out next month. As everyone can see in the legal documentation, Take-Two visited 3DR several times and told the company that they were pleased with how things were going. Then, in late 2008, negotiations for funding to handle the internal development of multiplayer and the xbox 360 version, as well as pushing the game to release in general began. 3D Realms was verbally promised six million dollars initially, and so they dedicated funding and resources to the development of the xbox 360 and multiplayer components, which they wouldn't have done if they hadn't thought financial support was coming. As a direct result of Take-Two's lies and hostile false promises, 3D Realms was forced to fire its internal staff when Take-Two refused to provide the funding. Had they provided said funding, we'd all be preparing to play DNF as we speak, and 3D realms would still be fully operational. Take-Two is a horrendous company anyway, and the games that they create aren't worth even looking at. GTA 4 was so stupid that I played for 30 minutes, got sick of it, and never put it into my 360 again. 3D Realms deserves better than this, and I would welcome the day that 3D Realms gets out of the contract and finds a better company to publish the game. I don't want to see the sickening Take-Two logo on the DNF box, anyway. So, what's your opinion on this issue? Should the publisher be blamed? __________________ Duke Nukem Forever will be released in 2010. The community will realize its dream of playing the greatest game of all time. :) Last edited by ultra tree 85!; 03-11-2010 at 02:33 PM.

03-11-2010, 02:43 PM	#2
Boosh	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault?

03-11-2010, 03:26 PM	#3
Duke's New Chainsaw	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? Someone take the "Post New Topic" button away from this guy. __________________ The Great Communicator!

03-11-2010, 03:36 PM	#4
crunchy superman	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? I miss Joe. __________________

03-11-2010, 04:52 PM	#7
KO Gilligan	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? in the SITUATION ROOM

03-11-2010, 04:56 PM	#8
someguy2435	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? __________________ Things go here. Rabble rabble.

03-11-2010, 05:04 PM	#12
Rapture_Rising	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? ITS 3DR's FAULT. If 3DR didnt take 12 [insert swear here] years to develop one [insert swear here] game then they wouldnt be in this mess. __________________ Here we go folks... The rarest creature in nature... The Duketard. I will now approach him very quitely and... Jam my thumb in his butt hole. That should REALLY piss him off!.

03-11-2010, 05:05 PM	#13
Duke's New Chainsaw	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? __________________ The Great Communicator!

03-11-2010, 05:14 PM	#16
JobivanHiob	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? its Take 2 fault due to the reasons you mentioned! Its true that 3DR needed a tremendous time to get to the final version of DNF. But they had the right to do so! Take 2 just got unpatient with them and also wanted to grab the Duke IP, so they sued them even with only 1 % chance of winning the case! But as 3DR already said Take 2 is basing their suit on nothing but wishful thinking! They just thought, hey lets sue these guys we are the big publisher they are just a small studio! Take 2 just sued 3DR because they could! And this is a problem of the us-legal system! And let me say this, Take 2 would be very stupid to let the case go on for another 1 or 2 years! Because in the end they won't get either the Duke IP and maybe neither the chance to publish a state of the art DNF! I just hope that Take 2 brings this stupid lawsuit to an end in the very near future! But I also know of some "banksters" that invest in the weak € to profit from it and in the end will bring the financial system to a crash harming themselfs by this irrepealable! Not even mentioning the world financial crisis in the 1929! Take 2 don't be stupid! Release DNF! __________________ Stay up to date with http://dukewatch.blogspot.com for the UNEXPECTED and PREPARE YOURSELF for SHOCK and AWESOME on Penny Arcade EXPO from September 3-5! Onebullit: "If DNF comes out in 2010 i will buy 2 copies and send you one." pjVgt regading DNF at PAX:"I would seriously shit my pants and pre-order three copies - one will be sent to Jobi" Last edited by JobivanHiob; 03-11-2010 at 05:17 PM.

03-11-2010, 05:17 PM	#17
Conan of Cooma	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? Take 2 tried to finish and release DNF, 3DR blocked them. Don't be an ass clown. This is 3DR fault.

03-11-2010, 05:26 PM	#21
JobivanHiob	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? LOL Conan! Of course Take 2 wanted DNF to be released some years before! But you know what, it wouldn't have been the game you would expected from 3DR! The last versions of DNF weren't the quality level you would expect from 3DR! Only the last incarnation from around beginning of 2007 until now is what you expect a sequel of famous DN3D! One can argue if the time from 1997 to 2006 was worth spend of course! But I say despite 3DR wasted some months of develoment time, the 10 years were needed to get to the point they were in May 2009 and most certainly are now with the game! __________________ Stay up to date with http://dukewatch.blogspot.com for the UNEXPECTED and PREPARE YOURSELF for SHOCK and AWESOME on Penny Arcade EXPO from September 3-5! Onebullit: "If DNF comes out in 2010 i will buy 2 copies and send you one." pjVgt regading DNF at PAX:"I would seriously shit my pants and pre-order three copies - one will be sent to Jobi"

03-11-2010, 05:40 PM	#23
Eagle	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? The guilt rests solely on george for taking so long. His addiction to drugs supports crime and even terrorism. __________________ "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments will be lost in time... like...tears... in rain". Last edited by Eagle; 03-12-2010 at 03:02 AM.

03-11-2010, 05:48 PM	#24
JobivanHiob	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? MrBohica the good comes to those who wait! I would love to see a trailer too, but right now they can't release any media due to the suit! But I appreciate that Scott and George are of the oppinion that too much media can kill the hype! 1-2 proper trailers, a few gameplay clips, a few screenshots and some more info in game magazines will be enough before the release! wow I can't remember when I last talked about releasing media for DNF! __________________ Stay up to date with http://dukewatch.blogspot.com for the UNEXPECTED and PREPARE YOURSELF for SHOCK and AWESOME on Penny Arcade EXPO from September 3-5! Onebullit: "If DNF comes out in 2010 i will buy 2 copies and send you one." pjVgt regading DNF at PAX:"I would seriously shit my pants and pre-order three copies - one will be sent to Jobi"

03-11-2010, 07:59 PM	#29
fast-1	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? I rock the vote to say loadsofmoney.

03-11-2010, 08:06 PM	#30
GrimWoman	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? Take2 and 3DR are both at fault, 3DR took forever, Take2 made it take longer.

03-11-2010, 08:16 PM	#31
Bam050196	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? I agree with ReaperMan.

03-11-2010, 09:08 PM	#33
Eagle	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? g and s could of squeezed 5 mil from their personal assets to finish dnf but instead they approached t2 for it and when t2 declined they shut down the shop, they had someone else to blame for their failure of dnf...thats all they needed to can the whole project, a scapegoat. If they really wanted to finish it they could of pulled it off. the most probable truth is that 5 mil was not enough to finish it and they were really after a scapegoat to take the hit. g and s were quick to fire everyone and close it down without even considering selling off their personal assets. dnf was killed with a self inflicting wound after they realized they did not have the ground breaking content that the communitie was expecting. did you see any interactivity at all in any of the leaked footage? they did not have a revolutionary game, they had a mediocre half finished game and they killed it before it was exposed. __________________ "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments will be lost in time... like...tears... in rain".

03-11-2010, 09:11 PM	#34
Conan of Cooma	Re: Is the situation Take-Two's Fault? Somebody shoot me now!