MP1 vs MP2!

[0marTheZealot]

Which one you guys think is better?

I'll post my feelings in a bit!

[j]

I voted for Payne 2, as it has more of what I love and has improved on pretty much everything you can improve upon.

But, it is still just more of the same, so in terms of breaking the ground and pioneering, Max 1 would be the better game.

I love both just as much!

[soft]

bring sam lake
MP1

[Wamplet]

Max Payne 2. It had some great stuff. An improvement on MP1, but both were great. For some reason, I thought the story was easier to follow along than MP1. Maybe it's because I already forgot most of MP1's story, but It just seemed that the story in MP2 was less complicated.

[Pazer]

MP2 wins in the graphics, physics engine, and overall look and feel of the game categories. I felt the story was lacking somewhat though. It never felt as involving as the first.

Also MP2 didn't seem to have a good variety of different locations IMO. Roscoe Street station was one of the most memorable levels/chapter of any game i've played. This is what I wanted more of.

With some luck MP3 will address some of the issues i have with MP2

[Moonwalker]

I can't really say which one is better.
MP's storyline was better and I think that Sam Lake as Max Payne is a lot cooler than Timothy Gibbs. Main character was more interesting in MP and somehow I payed him much more attention than MP2. I really liked it when he was a lonely wanderer. A man with nothing to lose .
However...action was more fun and fluent in MP2 and the game is much more varied. Using bullettime was more difficult in MP1 because it gave out too quickly and you always have to watch your hourglass. And which pissed me off in MP: enemies were too strong in last levels. I mean...it doesn't matter did you shoot them to their head or toe .
MP was more difficult and this was both good and bad. MP2 was maybe a little too easy when there was some really challenging places in MP. However I still think that action was better in MP2.
Long answer, I know and maybe full of spelling mistakes, but anyway: I think that MP and MP2 are equally good. There was something better and something worse, but both are great games .

[Ratm]

Both but level wise i would say mp1 cause there were so many diffrent locations.Mp2 however had the same levels over like i mean the whole 2nd chapter was taken place in the construction site i mean damn.who wants to be in the same thing through half the game.but graphics wise mp2 wins.So basically mp2 won

[0marTheZealot]

Ok, be prepared, this is long and has MANY spoilers, so becareful

We all know that MP2 is two years more advanced, so let's not count that here. It's supposed to be better graphically I mean you don't expect a 2004 Ferrai to be slower than a 2002 Ferrai.


IMO, Max Payne was the better game. It just seemed more fleshed out. I really don't buy that there was 2 or 3 times more dialogue. A lot of it is idle chatter between guards. The graphic novels have about the same amount of text, however, I felt that the writing in Max Payne was heads and shoulders above MP2. While MP2 had great writing, I loved the melodramatic tone of the first game. The whole love plot seems forced to me. Max goes from debating internally about Mona to making out with her in a matter of moments. I also felt that DEUX EX MACHINA was used way too often when there seemed to be a "deadend." Max Payne had DEUX EX MACHINA in one spot I can think of. When Vladmir confronts him (out of no where) and tells him of Dime and what happened. Other than that, I felt that Max Payne had great pacing. I felt like I was in a hurry, with the constant omnious sounds of the NYPD behind me. In MP2, each location seemed to be an excuse to shoot shit up (which isn't bad at all, it just looses it's appeal after a bit). I mean, what was the point of half the spots in MP2. The construction site was brutually cut short w/ Winterson, the Apartments were cut-short by the NYPD. Only the mob-war and Woden's manor levels felt complete. Either Remedy was under serious time-constraints or they didn't have much to work with, plotwise.

Remedy seemed to have cornered themselves into a corner (lolz) often times, plotwise. For example, the only indication that Vladmir is at Woden's Manor was Mona's exclaimation that he's there. We hardly get any background about any of the characters. Rico Muerte has more background than many of the characters in MP2. Winterson is a great example. She has maybe 20 lines in the entire game, then she's killed off. Kaufman has two lines, before a fistful of lead hits his face. Mike the Cowboy likewise has a few lines. The only characters developed were Max, Mona and Vlad. I don't understand the direction Vlad's character took either. In MP1, he was quoted as being "one of the old time villians, one with honors and morals , which almost made him one of the good guys." Then, all of a sudden, he turns into a backstabbing bastard.

Moving onto locations, I felt that MP again had a better selection. I mean honestly, how many times can we visit the funhouse? Don't get me wrong, I loved the architecture(sp), but it seems like the same goddamn paint bucket, ladder, and 4 types of boxes were everywhere. Whoever owns that paint company must be cleaning up bad. The best location in MP2 had to be Woden's manor, but that seemed like the Asgard building. MP's selection was awesome. You had the subway (already mentioned), the slums, a tanker, the Aesir building (one of the best levels EVER). Nicole Horne's penthouse was awe-inspiring. The layout, the attention to detail, and the seriousness of it all made it a great climax. Max Payne 2 seemed to recycle the same concepts in MP1. For chrissakes, you get a fire-dodging level ala "putting out my flames with gasoline." I nearly groaned at that.

The mechanics seemed more ... refined in MP as well. Bullet Time in MP2 is absurdly powerful. It almost feels like I'm cheating when I use it. There's no reason why Max should move like Flash Gordon. I could take MP's BT in the context of the game. But MP2's? Absurd. No one can move that fast; you'll probably tear a tendon in the process. I know MP isn't real-life, but if Remedy used real-life situations, locations, physics, people, they should try to keep the mechanics realistic as well. The shotdodges in MP2 were much better however. I liked the concept of staying on the floor to lay some buck down. And the rolling looked much better in MP2 as well, as it is expected to be.

With respect to enemies, (broken track record style), I also think MP had a better selection. Not only did you have bosses (Jack Lupino, Dime, BB) but the type of enemies differed. Killer suits, commandos, murderous drug dealers, hookers, V-junkies, helicopters are much better than mafia guys and Cleaner commandos. The situation never changed either. The enemies in MP2 never set up ambushes, never used a different weapon than MP5s, AK47s and M4A1s. In MP1 they at least used the grenade launcher a few times. They also laid (scripted) ambushes for Max Payne. Who can forget the conversation in Punchinolo's manor "Oh shit, here comes Payne, he's unstoppable" "No he's not, this will stop anything, stand back!" And then bam, the door blasts apart and you ahve to snipe his ass from across the balconey. I missed those little touches. Or how about when you are chasing Horne through her penthouse with the colt commando going full auto, and hearing her desperately raise her troops' morale (you are better equipped, better trained, and outnumber him 20-1, STOP HIM AT ALL COSTS). The only time you hear something like that is when you are chasing Vladmir thru Woden's manor, and that's only for a few seconds. You had to sit thru Horne's babble for like 10 minutes, while you shot thru rooms full of killer suits. In MP2, Cleaners appear from doors and that's about it. There are no ambushes, no panicked chatter, nothing to break up the monotony of BT, Shotdodge, AK47 in the mouth.

The action in MP2 is unrivaled, even compared to MP1, but I keep getting the feeling that it could have been SO MUCH more. You know one of those great movies you see, but it could have been 20 times better if a couple of quick things were done? That's how I feel about MP2. It doesn't really feel like a sequel. It feels more like an epilogue or an expansion pack. I love MP1 to death and I can't stop playing MP2, so don't get me wrong that I ahte the games. I just feel that MP2 took a few turns that just felt wrong. Especially when those right choices were made in MP1.

Oh yea, the length had to put that in somewhere
whew, thanks for reading. And remember, my post isn't canon; it's just my opinion, fleshed out verbally.

[Ratm]

^^ guess mp1 wins your vote eh?

[Pazer]

most, if not all of omar's post I can agree with.

[Paynefreak]

the graphics, action and bullettime where cooler in MP2

The style, Main theme and the Max Payne model where cooler in MP1.
It's too hard to vote

[Mariamus]

Yeah... I think 0mar is right..

But I must say though. MP2 wasn't a bad game at all..

I mean.. mp1 had all that and a bag of potato-chips..

and Mp2... well..
MP2 had Vinnie Gognitti *drool*

[0marTheZealot]

lol
I'm not saying MP2 is a bad game at all; in fact, it was the best purchase I made this year. However, when you compare it to MP1, it kind of falls back in a few places.

Many parts of MP2 are great advances forwards; a few portions are curious regressions.

[Paynefreak]

and Mp2... well..
MP2 had Vinnie Gognitti *drool*

So did MP1 :þ

[Presto]

Bring Max's old clothes back!

The feel to MP1 i thought was much better. It was so much more then just a simple revenge plot, while max 2 was all about revenge and how a budding love ruined it all. I remember scenes in MP1 like in the hotel and think "damn that was amazing", and while many many things did that graphically in MP2, i never got that same feeling in MP2.

Mp1

[Burning Fish]

Max Payne 1 here too.

[Jokke_r]

imo the story and locations were better in maxpayne1...

imo the story in max2 was much smaller in scale...

[Mayur]

I dunno, I love both in different ways, one thing I do know is that ragdoll physics in MP2 rule!

-M

[Prism]

I think MP1 is far, but I mean far better than Mp2.
P.S. 0mar, do you actually think that anyone will read your "novel"?

[Hypher]

I voted MP2 because of the improved graphics engine and the ragdoll effect! It so good, makes the deaths a lot more realistic, plus makes way for a few unintentional funny poses.

However I do love Max Payne 1. It started as one of those games that I had bought for someone else not thinking much of it, instead falling in love with it's story line and being blown away.
They both have good and bad points between them, but MP2 gets my vote because of the new features.

I agree with J in that I love them both equally gameplay wise and I had to pick one based on something...

I dunno i just confused myself there

[PimpinMrT]

I chose MP1. I feel as though that MP2 had good qualities but it wasn't that great. Sure the graphics were good, but the ragdoll effects weren't that great. I mean if you shoot someone with a machine gun they aren't gonna fly 6 ft in the air and stick to a wall.

Also there were less graphic novel scenes. I didn't like that.

The stoty was alright but it wasn't that great i mean there were 2 endings and if there were to be a 3rd how would the next company continue the story.

Also it was WAY to easy. I haven't had a chance to replay it but i do know i was never really out of pain killers.

All in all it was a good game with the whole Mona and Max part the physics were cool but unrealistic and the story was mediocre.

Max payne is all in all a better game

[Ivan]

I chose MP2, cause I liked more the story and the content. Lots of improvements.

[Dr.Dude]

Max Payne 2. First of all, because of the physics as I almost got embarrassed after a while of wasting too much time kicking stuff off ledges or diving into boxes. I thought the graphic novel sequences were better illustrated than in the first also, but the main reason I liked Max Payne 2 better was the first one at times was unintentionally funny, in my opinion. Espescially because of Max's face--in game. I will say that I felt Max's personality was more interesting in MP 1, however.

Whatever. Both games were great.

[0marTheZealot]

lol I can only hope.

[PimpinMrT]

i must also admit that the levels were less interesting than the first. and MP2 felt more linear

[Doombringer]

The Benefits of MP1 vs. MP2...

MP1 had undeniable freshness. It raised the bar, graphically and with storytelling (and methods of storytelling), so naturally MP2 will not have the same remarkable qualities...

So let's get started!

MP1 introduced bullet time, and MP2 refined it. I like the subtle changes to bullet time in MP2... like being able to shoot-dodge in BT and remain lying on the floor if you're still firing, whereas in MP1 you would get up and interrupt your firing. I liked MP2's 'advanced' bullet time in that it made the game easier, but I think it was a bit too far of a stretch realistically. I mean, running at normal speed while in BT? Erm...

Hard to call it on that issue. Let's just move on.

Graphics. Obviously MP2 wins out on this one... everything is at a higher resolution and there are more environmental effects. Characters, weaponry, and levels look more realistic.

Sound. I liked the music in MP2 more than MP1 (that cello just makes me melt), although it's still a close call. Gunshots and dialogue all seemed fairly unchanged from the first. The Poets of the Fall song was a nice touch. Overall... MP1 and MP2 balance out in this category.

Level design. Unfortunately, MP2 loses out here. MP1 had a great variety of levels and no two were truly alike. MP2 has you returning to a few locations (over and over) and the levels that -were- new still felt a bit rehashed from MP1. Sorry, but we can only have so much of a construction site. MP1 wins this one.

Enemies. Again, MP2 just doesn't have the variety of MP1. In MP1, we had mobsters, V addicts, Aesir security guards, commandos, killer suits, dockworkers. In MP2, we get a few mobsters, but mostly Cleaners (suited or as commandos). Also, MP1 had bosses like Niagra, Muerte, Dime, Gognitti, the Trio, and Lupino whereas MP2 has nothing like this. MP1 wins this one too.

Gameplay. Both games are very similar in gameplay, so this is difficult to call. The end-boss fights of both MP1 and MP2 were very much alike, and I think that is something that had to be done. Otherwise, you'd have a boss that takes a ton of rounds before dying (like the minibosses in MP1). This way, there's at least a bit of a puzzle and it doesn't seem wholly unrealistic. The upside of MP2 was that after the puzzle was complete, you actually get to put the final round in the last boss. MP1 didn't give you that.

MP1 and MP2 are tied in gameplay.

Storyline. MP1 wins out here, hands down. The storyline in MP1 was easier to follow. It didn't jump around a lot, whereas MP2 had moments of "The Manor, Last Night" and "The Manor, Now" before you even really get into the game. Then it flashes back again, and forward, and... yeesh! MP1 had a more linear storyline, a clear goal, and a villain you could really hate. MP2's story seems a little forced, like Remedy wanted to use Vlad again but also wanted him as a badguy this time around, so they tried their hardest to tie him in with other established plot stuff... Inner Circle, V, mob wars, etc.

MP1 wins.

Weaponry. Not a very important category, but I'll mention it anyway. MP2 had a better way of handling weaponry with the alternate fire option. That way, we can fling molotovs and keep our guns out... much less navigating of the weapon selector. Nice. That said, MP2 removes the awesome M-79 grenade launcher, but compensates with dual Deagles, the AK, and the MP-5. So I'd say they're tied here.

Tally things up... MP1 wins this fight, in my eyes. But MP2 is still a worthwhile sequel. Buy it, play it, love it, play it some more... and then hope for Max Payne 3. You know it's coming. The credits DID say "Max Payne's journey into the night will continue" after all.

[spacer]

mp2 had a better prologue (the first hospital level), it was geniunely sinister all the way through, whereas mp1's was sort've just boring until you found your dead wife, but i liked mp1's final levels more than the mansion levels in mp2. also, its already been said but mp1's store of enemies was better than mp2's. most of all, the metaphors in mp1 were more relevant and made more sense than in mp2

[AutoRock]

MP2 for me. Better gameplay with the new physics and AI, better plot (I liked the Cleaners case stuff, and I like Max more as a cop than a fugitive), better music. I didn't mind the reused levels much, as they either change visually each time or you're doing something completely different there each time.

[0marTheZealot]

you find michelle in like 15 minutes....

[unexperienced]

I chose MP 1.

I think that the mood (which is the most important feature in my opinion) was better in MP 1. It was sometimes fearsome, exciting, gloomy or fun. In MP 2 it's only melancholic and like a typical firing game. There're something different in MP 1, and the reason isn't just that the game is from my homeland.

The enemies would be a reason to chose MP 1. I irritated, when I saw Gognitti in a Captain BaseballBatBoy accessory. He was my favourite person in MP 1 There are only a few different "types" of enemies, Cleaners, commandos, mobsters and Woden's bodyguards. Too little, as many of conversationalist in this topic have said.

The themes are a little better in MP 2, but I couldn't hear any of backround noise (only the rattle of rain) in the sequel. In MP 1 were a lot of them, and there were several fearsome ones.

The places are better -like a lot of you guys say- in MP 1 'cause there were more and different of them.

The Bullet Time is a little different in MP 1, at least I think that Payne can die in a Shootdodge -jump by a granade or an enemy in MP 2. That didn't happen in the previous Payne. But The Bullet Time and Shootdodge are best in both of them!

The plot is interesting in either event. The way of presentation of the comics is more stupid in MP 2, and in it you just can't press the action button when Payne sees an interesting object and get knowledge about it as a cartoon.

After these justifications the decision is simple: Max Payne 1 is more better, but I can't deny that haven't play the sequel a lot...

[j]

you find michelle in like 15 minutes....

More like 15 seconds.