Simple question. Why?

Murmandamus · 04-19-2005, 12:51 AM

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/news.asp?aid=23190

I'm not wanting to troll here, but I just don't get it. The big deal with the original Prey was it's technology. Portal engine, Prey OS, mod tools etc that would have been revolutionary. That's where all the interest was. Without all that and doing it on the Doom3 engine, what's left? Why are people excited about it?

Is the non-fleshed out, basically non-existant story of Talon Brave so compelling that it just had to be told? Why bring something back from the dead, when all that it had going for it originally is gone?

It makes as much sense to me as making a movie called Doom that doesn't take place on Mars, doesn't involve hell and whose main character isn't a marine.

trackit · 04-19-2005, 12:56 AM

listen... can you at least wait befor you will know little more about the game?? at the moment you know absolutly nothing about it

so we really cant discuss this topic!!

George Broussard · 04-19-2005, 12:58 AM

You can say "why?" about any game. How many WW2 shooters do we need?

Why?

Why not?

Murmandamus · 04-19-2005, 12:59 AM

Of course we can. Like the "Doom" movie, this game has seemingly nothing to do with the original title. So why are people seemingly creaming their dacks over it as though they are going to get what they were excited about 7 years ago.

theRobot · 04-19-2005, 01:00 AM

Quote:

George Broussard said:
How many WW2 shooters do we need?

We need eight more! And that'll complete the vast assortment no one needs.

George Broussard · 04-19-2005, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Murmandamus said:
Of course we can. Like the "Doom" movie, this game has seemingly nothing to do with the original title. So why are people seemingly creaming their dacks over it as though they are going to get what they were excited about 7 years ago.

Maybe they trust us and Human Head to deliver a cool game, regardless? Maybe you don't know how much of the original game and its features are present in the new game?

Maybe none of it matters, and it's just something to chat about on a message board

trackit · 04-19-2005, 01:05 AM

ppl writing those articles are just mad because of the media blackout they are kept in... But really if you think about it we are with 3dr on the same boat here. We both wanna cool games. And i agree that it will spoil the game if you know too much about it early on.

I think you should not pay attentions to those flaming articles.

Gryph · 04-19-2005, 01:22 AM

Simple answer: Why not? (Even though George already said that)

The IP is there, might as well use it. The only people who will lose anything in this are 3Drealms and Human Head if the game isn't a success, which I doubt will happen.

hell-angel · 04-19-2005, 01:37 AM

Quote:

GryphonKlaw said:
Simple answer: Why not? (Even though George already said that)

The IP is there, might as well use it. The only people who will lose anything in this are 3Drealms and Human Head if the game isn't a success, which I doubt will happen.

Well said. Prey will rock our worlds. How do I know? Simple, look what 3DR did to max payne, that game just ruled. And I guess 3DR has the same amount of input in Prey. So I do not question them.

04-19-2005, 02:09 AM

Quote:

George Broussard said:

Quote:

Murmandamus said:
Of course we can. Like the "Doom" movie, this game has seemingly nothing to do with the original title. So why are people seemingly creaming their dacks over it as though they are going to get what they were excited about 7 years ago.

Maybe they trust us and Human Head to deliver a cool game, regardless? Maybe you don't know how much of the original game and its features are present in the new game?

Maybe none of it matters, and it's just something to chat about on a message board

I'm just looking forward to a kool and interesting shooter

hell-angel · 04-19-2005, 02:12 AM

Quote:

George Broussard said:

Quote:

Murmandamus said:
Of course we can. Like the "Doom" movie, this game has seemingly nothing to do with the original title. So why are people seemingly creaming their dacks over it as though they are going to get what they were excited about 7 years ago.

Maybe they trust us and Human Head to deliver a cool game, regardless? Maybe you don't know how much of the original game and its features are present in the new game?

Maybe none of it matters, and it's just something to chat about on a message board

hm... maybe it's not being created at all. And 3DR is just taking some of the heat away from DNF.

But maybe someone can answer this:
Will portal technology still be in the game? (because I think that just plain well rules.

)

Giblet · 04-19-2005, 02:22 AM

The was "portal technology" in Quake3. Remember you could look out onto a different section of a level? A more advanced version of that would kick ass.

hell-angel · 04-19-2005, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Giblet said:
The was "portal technology" in Quake3. Remember you could look out onto a different section of a level? A more advanced version of that would kick ass.

I only played the demo of Quake3 and I didn't like it. just my opinion.

But the fact that is was in Q3 does not mean it is in prey.

IHerman · 04-19-2005, 03:52 AM

Because 3DR's involvement always means good news. 3DR's involvement has lead to original, inventive, high-quality games.

Geir · 04-19-2005, 04:19 AM

Quote:

George Broussard said:
Why not?

Giblet · 04-19-2005, 10:11 AM

I'm just saying how it would work. In Quake 3 it worked kinda similar to the videos of prey (except they were fixed in Quake3).. Doom III was built upon Quake3 (before re-writing it) so it's not hard to see how it would work in the Doom III engine.

Spooger · 04-19-2005, 10:43 AM

The biggest reason to be excited about Prey probably isn't Portal technology

Would you still play Max Payne without Bullet-Time? Would you play Duke Nukem 3D without its insane interactivity? These games aren't 'made' by their incorperated technology and gimmicks, the technology is made by the game. Portal technology is a bonus.

George has said it once before -- sometimes games are more than just the sum of their parts. Besides the fact that we know about as much about Prey as we do DNF, I don't think there's much of a reason to worry about 'whats so special about Prey!'

Hell, seeing the Doom III engine IN THE LIGHT might be special enough as it is

Don't forget, it's been said in the past that DNF is all about blowing shit up and looking good while you do it - if that's special enough for everyone, then I'm 100 percent positive that Prey will not dissapoint on at least that level.

The Count · 04-19-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Spooger said:
The biggest reason to be excited about Prey probably isn't Portal technology

Would you still play Max Payne without Bullet-Time? Would you play Duke Nukem 3D without its insane interactivity? These games aren't 'made' by their incorperated technology and gimmicks, the technology is made by the game. Portal technology is a bonus.

George has said it once before -- sometimes games are more than just the sum of their parts. Besides the fact that we know about as much about Prey as we do DNF, I don't think there's much of a reason to worry about 'whats so special about Prey!'

Hell, seeing the Doom III engine IN THE LIGHT might be special enough as it is

Don't forget, it's been said in the past that DNF is all about blowing shit up and looking good while you do it - if that's special enough for everyone, then I'm 100 percent positive that Prey will not dissapoint on at least that level.

I agree completely. Well said.
Still I`m very curious how Human Head has used the "old" concepts

Thriller · 04-19-2005, 12:47 PM

Im waiting for it mainly because it seems everything 3DR touches turnes into gaming-gold. Original, fresh, polished, captivating, great value games. Max Payne 1/2 beeing the latest example. The high level of ambition for "the project thats never done" being another.

Im almost sure both DNF and Pray will be excellent games - when/if they are released.

Steve · 04-19-2005, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Why bring something back from the dead

3DR maybe running out of cash. My thoughts anyway.

Can't wait for this game. Win win.

04-20-2005, 12:42 AM

I'll reserve my judgement whne it's out!

Kristian Joensen · 04-20-2005, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Steve said:

Quote:

Why bring something back from the dead

3DR maybe running out of cash. My thoughts anyway.

Can't wait for this game. Win win.

George has already stated that is not the case. Plus why then spend lots of cash on Prey ?

Steve · 04-21-2005, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:

Quote:

Steve said:

Quote:

Why bring something back from the dead

3DR maybe running out of cash. My thoughts anyway.

Can't wait for this game. Win win.

George has already stated that is not the case. Plus why then spend lots of cash on Prey ?

Indeed.

Mobay · 04-21-2005, 01:21 AM

I dont get this...

can someone please explane to me.. why people like doom 3 and its "wonderfull lighting engine"

Why is every shadow compleatly dark, when something is blocking the light path...

sure it creates a shadow.. but i dosen't make the whole blocked path pitch black!

ohh and its the same thing with that chronicles of riddick game..

Look at the shadows!

They are so dark... thats not normal!!!
Chronicles of riddick screenshot

And look at doom 3: the same problem...

Doom 3 screenshot 1
Doom 3 screenshot 2

Whats wrong with the developers..!!?

Light does not spread like that!

Gryph · 04-21-2005, 01:29 AM

Well it's not like writing graphics renderers is an easy task. You can't expect perfect anything in graphics engines now. Just wait a few years and you'll see stuff like that happen.

Parkar · 04-21-2005, 01:31 AM

You will probably have to wait fro a long time to see true radiosity in a realtime light model. Thats the only thing that can make it look correct.

pjohnsonjr · 04-21-2005, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Mobay said:
Whats wrong with the developers..!!?

Light does not spread like that!

Have fun developing your own... Without help, it'd take 5 years to have a deep indepth engine that relies on no middleware added in and has dynamic usability. Not everything can be absolutely perfect in games, hardware isn't there yet.

Mobay · 04-21-2005, 01:55 AM

Quote:

pjohnsonjr said:

Quote:

Mobay said:
Whats wrong with the developers..!!?

Light does not spread like that!

Have fun developing your own... Without help, it'd take 5 years to have a deep indepth engine that relies on no middleware added in and has dynamic usability. Not everything can be absolutely perfect in games, hardware isn't there yet.

The lightning would be almost perfect if they toned down the darkness of the shadow a bit...

look at this screenshot again:
Doom screenie

The shadow on the floor is correct...

but the shadow on the monster and the wall is too dark!

Is so simple that i really dont understand why they left it like that!

Parkar · 04-21-2005, 02:01 AM

thats becouse some other light is illuminating that area. You can't just make all shadows bright and hope it will look good. Only thing you would acomplish is less contrast.

Mobay · 04-21-2005, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Parkar said:
thats becouse some other light is illuminating that area. You can't just make all shadows bright and hope it will look good. Only thing you would acomplish is less contrast.

No because if there was another light source on that monster.. the shadows would not look like that.. its a glitch in the engine...

at the moment the shadow hits the wall it turns black.. and the very same shadow is more bringt on the floor.

If you do not beleve me ... go inside doom a try it out.. (if you have the game)

sure hope the fix all the bugs. before they use the engine with prey..

Parkar · 04-21-2005, 02:58 AM

you can clearly see that there is a light in the roof in the back iluminating the floor.

Mobay · 04-21-2005, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Parkar said:
you can clearly see that there is a light in the roof in the back iluminating the floor.

2 light = 2 shadows....

but there are only 1 shadow

tpz · 04-21-2005, 03:41 AM

If you only see one shadow in that Doom3 screenshot, you should not have this discussion IMO.

pjohnsonjr · 04-21-2005, 03:44 AM

The closer you are to an object that your shadow is casted on the darker it will be, unless there is an overwhelming abundence of light. Shadows are also dictated by the angle of the light, the the light is emitting out towards, lighting intensity. In theory this can be looked at like shadow puppets... The closer to the wall you make the shadow puppets, the darker the shadow casted will be. The closer to the light source you are the fuzzier, scaled and less dark it will be.

in this picture the darker areas of the shadow come from the certain areas of an object being close to the wall and that floor. the fainter one above it and on the floor behind him is because the object the shadow is being casted from is further away from it than the other closer areas of the object.

Giblet · 04-21-2005, 04:00 AM

2 Lights = twice as much work. There's no glitches, just optimisations.

Mobay · 04-21-2005, 04:18 AM

The shadow is too black!!!

Go inside a room with a freind.. turn of the lights..

Now you take and place your friend 2 meters away from a wall.. now take a flashlight and point i at him...

notice how the shadow behind is NOT total BLACK!!

Even in a total dark room the shadow is not black..

My point proved!

pjohnsonjr · 04-21-2005, 04:24 AM

I don't know I'm in a room with only a monitor on, light is casting on to the side of my tv (flat, solid color) at a 60 degree angle... I get darkness from a shadow.

It deals with intensity, it's not a glitch.

the lights in the doom picture you showed look to be the power of stadium lighting (of the light casted on him), probably more along the lines of strong spotlight.

Trust me I can get a pitch black shadow from 2 meters away with a spotlight. It's all about the intensity. There is no flaw, it is correct as is.

Giblet · 04-21-2005, 04:52 AM

That's a design choice...

You could easily change the rgb value of the shadow and it's opacity.

Parkar · 04-21-2005, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Mobay said:
The shadow is too black!!!

Go inside a room with a freind.. turn of the lights..

Now you take and place your friend 2 meters away from a wall.. now take a flashlight and point i at him...

notice how the shadow behind is NOT total BLACK!!

Even in a total dark room the shadow is not black..

My point proved!

Yes and games will probably fix this in a couple of years. The problem is that the calculations grow versy fast even with just one light bounce. Just imagin every surface turn inta light and you can easily imagen how much more powerfull your gfx card need to be to cope with that.

But just make the shadow a bit brighter you say. Well this sounds good but there is no diffrence between what casts the shadow this means that the lights will light surfaces behind a wall since the walls shadow is being made brighter.

At the moment its either this dark shadows (doom3, ue3, riddick, halo2?) or combined precaculted lightmaps and projected shadows from dynamic objects (max payne 2, hl2).

04-20-2005, 12:42 AM	#21
Karthik Guest	Re: Simple question. Why? I'll reserve my judgement whne it's out!

04-19-2005, 12:51 AM	#1
Murmandamus	Simple question. Why? http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/news.asp?aid=23190 I'm not wanting to troll here, but I just don't get it. The big deal with the original Prey was it's technology. Portal engine, Prey OS, mod tools etc that would have been revolutionary. That's where all the interest was. Without all that and doing it on the Doom3 engine, what's left? Why are people excited about it? Is the non-fleshed out, basically non-existant story of Talon Brave so compelling that it just had to be told? Why bring something back from the dead, when all that it had going for it originally is gone? It makes as much sense to me as making a movie called Doom that doesn't take place on Mars, doesn't involve hell and whose main character isn't a marine.

04-19-2005, 12:56 AM	#2
trackit	Re: Simple question. Why? listen... can you at least wait befor you will know little more about the game?? at the moment you know absolutly nothing about it so we really cant discuss this topic!! __________________ Sorry, but you're reading into it too much!

04-19-2005, 12:58 AM	#3
George Broussard	Re: Simple question. Why? You can say "why?" about any game. How many WW2 shooters do we need? Why? Why not?

04-19-2005, 12:59 AM	#4
Murmandamus	Re: Simple question. Why? Of course we can. Like the "Doom" movie, this game has seemingly nothing to do with the original title. So why are people seemingly creaming their dacks over it as though they are going to get what they were excited about 7 years ago.

04-19-2005, 01:05 AM	#7
trackit	Re: Simple question. Why? ppl writing those articles are just mad because of the media blackout they are kept in... But really if you think about it we are with 3dr on the same boat here. We both wanna cool games. And i agree that it will spoil the game if you know too much about it early on. I think you should not pay attentions to those flaming articles. __________________ Sorry, but you're reading into it too much!

04-19-2005, 01:22 AM	#8
Gryph	Re: Simple question. Why? Simple answer: Why not? (Even though George already said that) The IP is there, might as well use it. The only people who will lose anything in this are 3Drealms and Human Head if the game isn't a success, which I doubt will happen. __________________ 1Emulation: The Peoples' Emulation Site I pity the fool! - Mr. T

04-19-2005, 02:22 AM	#12
Giblet	Re: Simple question. Why? The was "portal technology" in Quake3. Remember you could look out onto a different section of a level? A more advanced version of that would kick ass.

04-19-2005, 03:52 AM	#14
IHerman	Re: Simple question. Why? Because 3DR's involvement always means good news. 3DR's involvement has lead to original, inventive, high-quality games. __________________ Chances are I lost my point in this post after about two lines.

04-19-2005, 10:11 AM	#16
Giblet	Re: Simple question. Why? I'm just saying how it would work. In Quake 3 it worked kinda similar to the videos of prey (except they were fixed in Quake3).. Doom III was built upon Quake3 (before re-writing it) so it's not hard to see how it would work in the Doom III engine.

04-19-2005, 10:43 AM	#17
Spooger	Re: Simple question. Why? The biggest reason to be excited about Prey probably isn't Portal technology Would you still play Max Payne without Bullet-Time? Would you play Duke Nukem 3D without its insane interactivity? These games aren't 'made' by their incorperated technology and gimmicks, the technology is made by the game. Portal technology is a bonus. George has said it once before -- sometimes games are more than just the sum of their parts. Besides the fact that we know about as much about Prey as we do DNF, I don't think there's much of a reason to worry about 'whats so special about Prey!' Hell, seeing the Doom III engine IN THE LIGHT might be special enough as it is Don't forget, it's been said in the past that DNF is all about blowing shit up and looking good while you do it - if that's special enough for everyone, then I'm 100 percent positive that Prey will not dissapoint on at least that level.

04-19-2005, 12:47 PM	#19
Thriller	Re: Simple question. Why? Im waiting for it mainly because it seems everything 3DR touches turnes into gaming-gold. Original, fresh, polished, captivating, great value games. Max Payne 1/2 beeing the latest example. The high level of ambition for "the project thats never done" being another. Im almost sure both DNF and Pray will be excellent games - when/if they are released. __________________ As a previous owner of member number 404, I obviously dont know what the hell Im talking about. -------------------- "I GOT PLASTERED!" - Drazula "I thought everyone i Sweden looked like Duke Nukem...." - GreedyFly 2001

04-21-2005, 01:21 AM	#24
Mobay	Re: Simple question. Why? I dont get this... can someone please explane to me.. why people like doom 3 and its "wonderfull lighting engine" Why is every shadow compleatly dark, when something is blocking the light path... sure it creates a shadow.. but i dosen't make the whole blocked path pitch black! ohh and its the same thing with that chronicles of riddick game.. Look at the shadows! They are so dark... thats not normal!!! Chronicles of riddick screenshot And look at doom 3: the same problem... Doom 3 screenshot 1 Doom 3 screenshot 2 Whats wrong with the developers..!!? Light does not spread like that! __________________ You smell that? Do you smell that? ... Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

04-21-2005, 01:29 AM	#25
Gryph	Re: Simple question. Why? Well it's not like writing graphics renderers is an easy task. You can't expect perfect anything in graphics engines now. Just wait a few years and you'll see stuff like that happen. __________________ 1Emulation: The Peoples' Emulation Site I pity the fool! - Mr. T

04-21-2005, 01:31 AM	#26
Parkar	Re: Simple question. Why? You will probably have to wait fro a long time to see true radiosity in a realtime light model. Thats the only thing that can make it look correct. __________________ Action Unreal Tournament Duke Nukem 3D: High Resolution Pack HRP wiki: A HRP development tool

04-21-2005, 02:01 AM	#29
Parkar	Re: Simple question. Why? thats becouse some other light is illuminating that area. You can't just make all shadows bright and hope it will look good. Only thing you would acomplish is less contrast. __________________ Action Unreal Tournament Duke Nukem 3D: High Resolution Pack HRP wiki: A HRP development tool

04-21-2005, 02:58 AM	#31
Parkar	Re: Simple question. Why? you can clearly see that there is a light in the roof in the back iluminating the floor. __________________ Action Unreal Tournament Duke Nukem 3D: High Resolution Pack HRP wiki: A HRP development tool

04-21-2005, 03:41 AM	#33
tpz	Re: Simple question. Why? If you only see one shadow in that Doom3 screenshot, you should not have this discussion IMO. __________________ "A Smith & Wesson beats four aces."

04-21-2005, 03:44 AM	#34
pjohnsonjr	Re: Simple question. Why? The closer you are to an object that your shadow is casted on the darker it will be, unless there is an overwhelming abundence of light. Shadows are also dictated by the angle of the light, the the light is emitting out towards, lighting intensity. In theory this can be looked at like shadow puppets... The closer to the wall you make the shadow puppets, the darker the shadow casted will be. The closer to the light source you are the fuzzier, scaled and less dark it will be. in this picture the darker areas of the shadow come from the certain areas of an object being close to the wall and that floor. the fainter one above it and on the floor behind him is because the object the shadow is being casted from is further away from it than the other closer areas of the object. __________________ Fear ~~Alexander~~ Carrot Top the Great!

04-21-2005, 04:00 AM	#35
Giblet	Re: Simple question. Why? 2 Lights = twice as much work. There's no glitches, just optimisations.

04-21-2005, 04:18 AM	#36
Mobay	Re: Simple question. Why? The shadow is too black!!! Go inside a room with a freind.. turn of the lights.. Now you take and place your friend 2 meters away from a wall.. now take a flashlight and point i at him... notice how the shadow behind is NOT total BLACK!! Even in a total dark room the shadow is not black.. My point proved! __________________ You smell that? Do you smell that? ... Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

04-21-2005, 04:24 AM	#37
pjohnsonjr	Re: Simple question. Why? I don't know I'm in a room with only a monitor on, light is casting on to the side of my tv (flat, solid color) at a 60 degree angle... I get darkness from a shadow. It deals with intensity, it's not a glitch. the lights in the doom picture you showed look to be the power of stadium lighting (of the light casted on him), probably more along the lines of strong spotlight. Trust me I can get a pitch black shadow from 2 meters away with a spotlight. It's all about the intensity. There is no flaw, it is correct as is. __________________ Fear ~~Alexander~~ Carrot Top the Great!

04-21-2005, 04:52 AM	#38
Giblet	Re: Simple question. Why? That's a design choice... You could easily change the rgb value of the shadow and it's opacity.