A little research help

vivftp · 06-18-2006, 07:02 AM

Howdy all, I'm looking for several references I'm having some trouble finding, and was hoping others here might be able to find them better than I (hopefully with direct links).

Specifically I'm looking for instances of when people have recently been showed footage of DNF. I know there was a bit in a gaming magazine not too long ago, and I believe others developers have been shown the game in a recent state and commented on it.

If anyone could help by providing links to any of those events/threads, that'd be much appreciated

BTW, I know 3DR were on Liquid Developments site since I saw it a while back, any clues on why they're not there anymore?

Also, anyone have links to the official statements by Megon stating 3DR were using their physics engine for DNF?

I'll continue to search, but any help would be appreciated in speeding it up.

In case anyone is wondering what I'm searching for, I'm in a debate with another individual elsewhere, and their stance is that DNF is not in development anymore (apparently the only evidence they wish to see are screenshots and video footage). I'm maintaining we have several different sorts of evidence other than 3DRs word to base our conclusion that it's still in development on, and need these links to help out.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide

FireFly · 06-18-2006, 12:47 PM

From an earlier post - those that have seen the game:

PC Gamer - saw the game for the 1999 and 2005 writeups

Maarten Goldstein (Shacknews employee) - "I saw it in person in august 1999. Long, long time ago".

Brad Wernicke (3D Portal webmaster) - "I was at 3D Realms offices on July 19th, 2002, and George Broussard, and Ruben Cabrera both spent roughly an hour showing me Duke Nukem Forever".

He also had this to say in a PlanetCrap comment:

"I am one of the few people that have seen Duke Nukem Forever in development. I got a chance to see it this past July. While I am vowed not to go into detail, I can say that what I did see is nothing short of tremendous. I have no clue when it is coming out, but based on what I saw, it will not disappoint".

http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/636/521/

Rob Brown (previous Apogee employee) - "George and I said our hellos and then George says to me, 'Do you want to see some Duke Nukem Forever?' I was like a kid in a candy shop". This was in 2002, I think.

John Romero - "I saw DNF last time I was in Dallas and it looked very very nice". This was said in February 2004.

Take 2 employees - "I know they are extremely impressed with the current state of the game, having seen it just last week".

http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/vie...b9a664dd7#53663

Levelord - "We went to 3D Realms in the morning (that's 2pm in their time zone... and actually got to see Duke! Nobody sees Duke! I haven't seen Duke in over three years! ...but the Russians? ...they get to see Duke". Tuesday, May 24, 2005

http://www.levelord.com/

Earlier he said: "Believe you me, the game is worth the wait!"

To add to this, Computer Games Magazine was recenty shown the game:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=8878

Incidentally, Gamasutra's claim that what was shown represents the current state of DNF is without merit.

From George:

"What was shown was a series of internal test maps that we use. We call them 'zoo' maps. We have maps for characters, or vehicles, or interactive objects (100's), etc. Maps that show off breaking glass, or physics, or whatever."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=11969423

From Jason Bergman, PR Manager at 2K Games:

"CGM saw some very basic stuff from the game, but they did not get a full demo, and everything they saw was quite old."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=11968100

However,

"No members of the media have seen the actual game, and no members of the media *will* see the game until 3DR decides the time is right."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=11968344

Here's a link relating to the June 2005 PC Gamer article on DNF:

http://www.planetduke.com/news/index...y=21&year=2005

And finally, the press release disclosing the licensing of Meqon:

http://www.meqon.com/news/20040927.php

Kristian Joensen · 06-18-2006, 12:57 PM

Yep and to add to that even if CGM didn't see the actuall game but just test maps we are still tlaking about post-restart(way) DNF.

For other external evidence are the 1998 trailer, the 1999 screenshots and the 2001 trailer even though none of those represent the present game in any way shape or form.

Also mr.sleepy from the shack saw three screenshots George printed for him.

Edit:

As for the Meqon thing there is this.

"BTW, I know 3DR were on Liquid Developments site since I saw it a while back, any clues on why they're not there anymore?"

There is athread about that, personaly it seems as if they news was simply pushed of the page because of its age.

FireFly · 06-18-2006, 01:39 PM

Yes, I forgot about that.

This is what Mr. Sleepy had to say:

"Being handed screenshots of DNF after Serenity was pretty good too

It looks awesome... it looks hardcore. I don't know how much detail I should go into... one scene was a bunch of police-like SWAT dudes looking hardcore and pissed off. Slick looking helmets and carrying the "we are ready to kill you" dimeanor. One of Dukes guns in another shot looked very awesome. Very true to DN3D.(How am I supposed to describe what a gun looks like?) Lighting is awesome. I wanted to ask if the images has been photoshopped, becuase, well, they looked really ****ing superior (and true to Duke Nukem)."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10833280

There's also the testimony of Eskimo Spy, who had a long history on the Shack before he joined 3D Realms:

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10294984
http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10417916

Finally, there's all the publicity from Take 2. It's not as if they'd throw out a 500K completion bonus on a game that doesn't exist!

vivftp · 06-19-2006, 12:21 AM

... You guys are amazing! You've actually produced more evidence than I knew existed

This'll all be quite sufficient for my purposes... in the meantime, I don't suppose there's any chance of getting official word from 3DR on the Liquid Development bit, is there?

hell-angel · 06-19-2006, 01:04 AM

There is indeed a lot of info, only most people don't read things right.

Luckily we have some smart people in here.

Micki! · 06-19-2006, 01:23 AM

That's not everything at all though...

Certain weapons have been confirmed, and stuff about DNF's technology has been confirmed aswell...
Also some enemies, have been confirmed to return, from the original Duke3D...
And i beleive some more tidbits, not sure though...

Nevermind all this though, as you seemed to search for something completely different in your original post...

But now you know...

vivftp · 06-19-2006, 01:33 AM

Yeah, this is indeed a truly interesting case I'm dealing with. He has zero faith in 3DR or anything they say - which is fine, he can believe what he wants. But all of this third-party evidence when presented to him just drives him to come up with conspiracy theories such as, "the gaming journalists were paid off" or "the gaming journalists are lying and only published these blurbs to sell more copies".

Of course such reasoning flies in the face of logic, which is why I'm partly of the opinion that he's trolling a bit, even if he honestly believes what he says.

Ah well, I'm of the opinion that the evidence can speak for itself, and it most certainly does

Micki! · 06-19-2006, 01:41 AM

Too bad for him... He might believe what he wants... It's too far out, to actually believe, that they "hide" the "truth" of DNF, of it's "non-existence"...

And of course, one of US's biggests magazines, are "lying" because they got "bribed" by telling people the game exists...

Oh god, this reminds me of Gamespot's DNF boards...

Kalki · 06-19-2006, 02:46 AM

And how about that CGM thread on this board where the author of the sidebar talks about the game a little more.

hell-angel · 06-19-2006, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micki!

Oh god, this reminds me of Gamespot's DNF boards...

Ah, the horror

Seriously, people like that will still not believe DNF is real when the game is released. So there is no good reason to talk to much about them. (unless you want to make fun of them, then it is good IMO.

)

Rider · 06-19-2006, 05:08 AM

Tell your friend to go play Prey (in 5 days) and not worry his little head over DNF

Micki! · 06-19-2006, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

Tell your friend to go play Prey (in 5 days) and not worry his little head over DNF

And after he enjoyed the game, tell him 3DR was part of Prey...

That'll make him "

"

hell-angel · 06-19-2006, 05:48 AM

He will probably instantly believe that prey was never released and he didn't play it.

vivftp · 06-19-2006, 10:25 AM

Oh he's fully aware that 3DR are producing Prey, but his view on that is 3DR had to go find a third party to make the game, so it's not representative of what they themselves can do and is thus an irrelevant issue.

Micki! · 06-19-2006, 11:55 AM

Well, just let him wait... As soon any concrete info pops up (media) he'd HAVE to react positively...
That is, if he even liked Duke games at all...

vivftp · 06-19-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micki!

Well, just let him wait... As soon any concrete info pops up (media) he'd HAVE to react positively...
That is, if he even liked Duke games at all...

Oh I don't really care if he likes Duke games or not, it's a matter of acknowleding what the evidence tells us - that DNF is still in development.

And yes indeedy, when media does pop up, I'll be very interested to see what he has to say. He says that it'll appease him, but somehow I'm of the opinion that he'll find something else to complain about (ie. it's photoshopped (for screenshots) or it's fake (for footage))... only time shall tell

FireFly · 06-19-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivftp

Yeah, this is indeed a truly interesting case I'm dealing with. He has zero faith in 3DR or anything they say - which is fine, he can believe what he wants. But all of this third-party evidence when presented to him just drives him to come up with conspiracy theories such as, "the gaming journalists were paid off" or "the gaming journalists are lying and only published these blurbs to sell more copies".

So he believes that 3D Realms paid off forum users to pretend they'd seen DNF, as well as Levelord and John Romero, bought a physics engine license they had no plan of using, and managed to fool Take 2 (the owner of the publishing rights) into believing they were developing the game? While at the same time placing adds in industry publications for people to work on DNF, and seemingly hiring for these positions (or paying people to pretend they'd been hired!)?

Micki! · 06-19-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivftp

but somehow I'm of the opinion that he'll find something else to complain about (ie. it's photoshopped (for screenshots) or it's fake (for footage))... only time shall tell

Exactly... That's why i was being curious if he even liked Duke games..!
Because if he didn't, he might keep bashing them...
And even get so low, that he says that magazines and websites have been bribed, for giving it a high score for the game...

vivftp · 06-19-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

So he believes that 3D Realms paid off forum users to pretend they'd seen DNF, as well as Levelord and John Romero, bought a physics engine license they had no plan of using, and managed to fool Take 2 (the owner of the publishing rights) into believing they were developing the game? While at the same time placing adds in industry publications for people to work on DNF, and seemingly hiring for these positions (or paying people to pretend they'd been hired!)?

Indeed. He's essentially come up with this massive conspiracy theory involving any of the evidence I've brought up, and claims he'll only accept screenshots and videos as evidence. I was curious about this, since if he's willing to dismiss 3DRs own word, the statements from multiple third party sources, the licensing agreements that've been made, and the simple logic that any company wishing to remain in business (since they're publishing games like Prey) would be utterly retarded to so completely lie to their fanbase like this... if he's willing to dismiss all of that, then why should he believe screenshots and video when they're presented? There are fans in this forum who can photoshop a very kickass screenshot, 3DR should logically be able to do an amazing job if they're trying to fool the world. Same with video... the only thing backing up the authenticity of that material would be 3DRs own word, which he already won't accept.

Anyways, if anyone has any interest in the thread in question, you can visit it here (it starts off about the whole Take 2, 500k issue, and things start taking off with this particular individual in post 45 where he eneters the thread). I've debated him on the issue several times over the past year... he's quite adament in his stance:

http://forum.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=102481

I will warn you that reading that thread can cause headaches and mental stress

Monkey Butler · 06-19-2006, 11:37 PM

Hmm, to be fair, I think you might have gone a little overboard. Yeah it's annoying when people flat-out refuse to admit that the game is in development (for whatever reason) but in the end, that's their prerogative. Although I do really want to see his reply to your last post. Would you be able to post it here: I reckon I'll forget about it otherwise. I'm expecting more nutjob conspiracy theories

hell-angel · 06-20-2006, 12:59 AM

Well, I say don't bother anymore. If he doesn't want to believe, then that's his choice. I suggest you leave him be and enjoy the anticipation of the game with the rest of us.

vivftp · 06-20-2006, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Butler

Hmm, to be fair, I think you might have gone a little overboard. Yeah it's annoying when people flat-out refuse to admit that the game is in development (for whatever reason) but in the end, that's their prerogative. Although I do really want to see his reply to your last post. Would you be able to post it here: I reckon I'll forget about it otherwise. I'm expecting more nutjob conspiracy theories

On that board we take such things as burden of proof and providing evidence pretty seriously (moreso than your average forum). If he wishes to assert the game is no longer in development then he has to explain away all of these third-party accounts we have of its development.

He can personally not like 3DR or DNF - that I don't really care about. But if he wishes to make an assertation he needs to back up his statements.

If any reply comes from him, I'll post it - although I get the feeling he won't since he usually replies pretty quickly to my posts...

Malgon · 06-20-2006, 06:31 AM

Quote:

vivftp said:
the only thing backing up the authenticity of that material would be 3DRs own word, which he already won't accept.

Sounds like theres no chance of him accepting it. Better to still show him all the evidence, then when the game is first announced remind him of all that proof you once showed him.

P.S. Nice quotes you found there FireFly, makes me feel like DNF will definitely be special.

Drewcifer · 06-20-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

So he believes that 3D Realms paid off forum users to pretend they'd seen DNF, as well as Levelord and John Romero, bought a physics engine license they had no plan of using, and managed to fool Take 2 (the owner of the publishing rights) into believing they were developing the game? While at the same time placing adds in industry publications for people to work on DNF, and seemingly hiring for these positions (or paying people to pretend they'd been hired!)?

I wish someone would pay me to pretend I'm working for them...

Yes, that was my contribution to this thread.

06-18-2006, 07:02 AM	#1
vivftp	A little research help Howdy all, I'm looking for several references I'm having some trouble finding, and was hoping others here might be able to find them better than I (hopefully with direct links). Specifically I'm looking for instances of when people have recently been showed footage of DNF. I know there was a bit in a gaming magazine not too long ago, and I believe others developers have been shown the game in a recent state and commented on it. If anyone could help by providing links to any of those events/threads, that'd be much appreciated BTW, I know 3DR were on Liquid Developments site since I saw it a while back, any clues on why they're not there anymore? Also, anyone have links to the official statements by Megon stating 3DR were using their physics engine for DNF? I'll continue to search, but any help would be appreciated in speeding it up. In case anyone is wondering what I'm searching for, I'm in a debate with another individual elsewhere, and their stance is that DNF is not in development anymore (apparently the only evidence they wish to see are screenshots and video footage). I'm maintaining we have several different sorts of evidence other than 3DRs word to base our conclusion that it's still in development on, and need these links to help out. Thanks for any help you guys can provide

06-18-2006, 12:47 PM	#2
FireFly	Re: A little research help From an earlier post - those that have seen the game: PC Gamer - saw the game for the 1999 and 2005 writeups Maarten Goldstein (Shacknews employee) - "I saw it in person in august 1999. Long, long time ago". Brad Wernicke (3D Portal webmaster) - "I was at 3D Realms offices on July 19th, 2002, and George Broussard, and Ruben Cabrera both spent roughly an hour showing me Duke Nukem Forever". He also had this to say in a PlanetCrap comment: "I am one of the few people that have seen Duke Nukem Forever in development. I got a chance to see it this past July. While I am vowed not to go into detail, I can say that what I did see is nothing short of tremendous. I have no clue when it is coming out, but based on what I saw, it will not disappoint". http://www.planetcrap.com/topics/636/521/ Rob Brown (previous Apogee employee) - "George and I said our hellos and then George says to me, 'Do you want to see some Duke Nukem Forever?' I was like a kid in a candy shop". This was in 2002, I think. John Romero - "I saw DNF last time I was in Dallas and it looked very very nice". This was said in February 2004. Take 2 employees - "I know they are extremely impressed with the current state of the game, having seen it just last week". http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/vie...b9a664dd7#53663 Levelord - "We went to 3D Realms in the morning (that's 2pm in their time zone... and actually got to see Duke! Nobody sees Duke! I haven't seen Duke in over three years! ...but the Russians? ...they get to see Duke". Tuesday, May 24, 2005 http://www.levelord.com/ Earlier he said: "Believe you me, the game is worth the wait!" To add to this, Computer Games Magazine was recenty shown the game: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=8878 Incidentally, Gamasutra's claim that what was shown represents the current state of DNF is without merit. From George: "What was shown was a series of internal test maps that we use. We call them 'zoo' maps. We have maps for characters, or vehicles, or interactive objects (100's), etc. Maps that show off breaking glass, or physics, or whatever." http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=11969423 From Jason Bergman, PR Manager at 2K Games: "CGM saw some very basic stuff from the game, but they did not get a full demo, and everything they saw was quite old." http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=11968100 However, "No members of the media have seen the actual game, and no members of the media will* see the game until 3DR decides the time is right."* http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=11968344 Here's a link relating to the June 2005 PC Gamer article on DNF: http://www.planetduke.com/news/index...y=21&year=2005 And finally, the press release disclosing the licensing of Meqon: http://www.meqon.com/news/20040927.php __________________ "I think the push for people to innovate in gameplay - i'm not sure that I particularly agree with it" John Carmack

06-18-2006, 12:57 PM	#3
Kristian Joensen	Re: A little research help Yep and to add to that even if CGM didn't see the actuall game but just test maps we are still tlaking about post-restart(way) DNF. For other external evidence are the 1998 trailer, the 1999 screenshots and the 2001 trailer even though none of those represent the present game in any way shape or form. Also mr.sleepy from the shack saw three screenshots George printed for him. Edit: As for the Meqon thing there is this. "BTW, I know 3DR were on Liquid Developments site since I saw it a while back, any clues on why they're not there anymore?" There is athread about that, personaly it seems as if they news was simply pushed of the page because of its age. __________________ The Philosophy Of Liberty, Chaos Theory Tachyons, Time Travel, and Divine Omniscience A Refutation of Moral Relativism(Transcript) Last edited by Kristian Joensen; 06-18-2006 at 01:03 PM.

06-18-2006, 01:39 PM	#4
FireFly	Re: A little research help Yes, I forgot about that. This is what Mr. Sleepy had to say: "Being handed screenshots of DNF after Serenity was pretty good too It looks awesome... it looks hardcore. I don't know how much detail I should go into... one scene was a bunch of police-like SWAT dudes looking hardcore and pissed off. Slick looking helmets and carrying the "we are ready to kill you" dimeanor. One of Dukes guns in another shot looked very awesome. Very true to DN3D.(How am I supposed to describe what a gun looks like?) Lighting is awesome. I wanted to ask if the images has been photoshopped, becuase, well, they looked really ****ing superior (and true to Duke Nukem)." http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10833280 There's also the testimony of Eskimo Spy, who had a long history on the Shack before he joined 3D Realms: http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10294984 http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10417916 Finally, there's all the publicity from Take 2. It's not as if they'd throw out a 500K completion bonus on a game that doesn't exist! __________________ "I think the push for people to innovate in gameplay - i'm not sure that I particularly agree with it" John Carmack

06-19-2006, 12:21 AM	#5
vivftp	Re: A little research help ... You guys are amazing! You've actually produced more evidence than I knew existed This'll all be quite sufficient for my purposes... in the meantime, I don't suppose there's any chance of getting official word from 3DR on the Liquid Development bit, is there?

06-19-2006, 01:04 AM	#6
hell-angel	Re: A little research help There is indeed a lot of info, only most people don't read things right. Luckily we have some smart people in here.

06-19-2006, 01:23 AM	#7
Micki!	Re: A little research help That's not everything at all though... Certain weapons have been confirmed, and stuff about DNF's technology has been confirmed aswell... Also some enemies, have been confirmed to return, from the original Duke3D... And i beleive some more tidbits, not sure though... Nevermind all this though, as you seemed to search for something completely different in your original post... But now you know... __________________ A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'

06-19-2006, 01:33 AM	#8
vivftp	Re: A little research help Yeah, this is indeed a truly interesting case I'm dealing with. He has zero faith in 3DR or anything they say - which is fine, he can believe what he wants. But all of this third-party evidence when presented to him just drives him to come up with conspiracy theories such as, "the gaming journalists were paid off" or "the gaming journalists are lying and only published these blurbs to sell more copies". Of course such reasoning flies in the face of logic, which is why I'm partly of the opinion that he's trolling a bit, even if he honestly believes what he says. Ah well, I'm of the opinion that the evidence can speak for itself, and it most certainly does

06-19-2006, 01:41 AM	#9
Micki!	Re: A little research help Too bad for him... He might believe what he wants... It's too far out, to actually believe, that they "hide" the "truth" of DNF, of it's "non-existence"... And of course, one of US's biggests magazines, are "lying" because they got "bribed" by telling people the game exists... Oh god, this reminds me of Gamespot's DNF boards... __________________ A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'

06-19-2006, 02:46 AM	#10
Kalki	Re: A little research help And how about that CGM thread on this board where the author of the sidebar talks about the game a little more. __________________ "Gentlemen, generations to follow will see us as the first pioneers of the internet. They will look upon our days as those of brave spirits and free ideals - where men were men, women were men and children were the FBI." Free Speech

06-19-2006, 05:08 AM	#12
Rider	Re: A little research help Tell your friend to go play Prey (in 5 days) and not worry his little head over DNF __________________ Duke4.net - Duke's OTHER home. HeadbangersFM - The station that keeps your head banging! ------------- She's pretty, not "damn-she's-making-my-noodle-dance-samba"-pretty, but still very pretty... - Micki!

06-19-2006, 05:48 AM	#14
hell-angel	Re: A little research help He will probably instantly believe that prey was never released and he didn't play it.

06-19-2006, 10:25 AM	#15
vivftp	Re: A little research help Oh he's fully aware that 3DR are producing Prey, but his view on that is 3DR had to go find a third party to make the game, so it's not representative of what they themselves can do and is thus an irrelevant issue.

06-19-2006, 11:55 AM	#16
Micki!	Re: A little research help Well, just let him wait... As soon any concrete info pops up (media) he'd HAVE to react positively... That is, if he even liked Duke games at all... __________________ A true genius does not need boundaries such as 'common sense'

06-19-2006, 11:37 PM	#21
Monkey Butler	Re: A little research help Hmm, to be fair, I think you might have gone a little overboard. Yeah it's annoying when people flat-out refuse to admit that the game is in development (for whatever reason) but in the end, that's their prerogative. Although I do really want to see his reply to your last post. Would you be able to post it here: I reckon I'll forget about it otherwise. I'm expecting more nutjob conspiracy theories

06-20-2006, 12:59 AM	#22
hell-angel	Re: A little research help Well, I say don't bother anymore. If he doesn't want to believe, then that's his choice. I suggest you leave him be and enjoy the anticipation of the game with the rest of us.