Does a high quality SP mod/map pack exist? - Page 3

Blue Lightning · 05-20-2008, 09:07 AM

Theree is no "correct" gameplay Deeperthought. There is only my opinion of what makes a great map. My opinion can be valuable to some, and probebly annoying to others, depending on whoever is reading it. Nobody can speak for every player, and I certainly do not try too. I can only speak for myself.

So the next question is "what makes Blue Lightning qualified to review maps and give an opinion?" My answer to that would be that I am a long-time gamer. It is no secret that I only play FPS games (which Echo on another forum won't let me forget by quoting me saying that in his sig

), and I have played almost all FPS games since 1997, when I started PC gaming. I love PC FPS gaming. It is the ultimate joy, and escape from reality. Duke Nukem 3D was my first...after that I played DooM and then Quake, and so on.

In 2004 I discovered a game that was so fun I couldnt break away from it to even grab something to eat! It is the only game that got a perfect 100/100 score from me, and the name of this game is Half-Life 2. I hadn't had so much fun since I first played Duke 3D. It is moments like that which make being an FPS PC gamer all the worth while. In 2005 I began doing some PC game reviews on the Steam forums. Many met these reviews with anger, while others understood exactly what I was writing, and complimented me on writing stuff that nobody else would write, or mabey even think of. Does that make me a pro? Nope. I do what I do for the joy of it, because I have such love for my hobby of FPS gaming. Am I the worlds great reviewer? Nope, I would say not. But I have strong opinions that make it sound like I am a know-it-all. That is what happens when one is brutaly honest and knows a lot about gameplay, which I believe I do. Others will disagree with me, and that's fine, I respect their right to. But I am frustrated because I have no technical knowhow to build any maps. I want to contribute, so the only and best way I feel I can contribute, is to play the games and review them, and hopefully offer some real insight to push map makers to make a better product.

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Originally Posted by blizzart

But your opinion is based on a totally wrong knowledge of game engines. You expect HL2´s physics as you mentioned, but this is nearly impossible with a 12 years old engine.

No, if you read my earlier post I mention that I DO NOT expect the game to give us Half Life 2 physics. I like Duke 3D just the way it is.

v10 · 05-20-2008, 09:16 AM

[QUOTE=ilovefoxes;700993]About the asteroid, there could be done a door (even with the glass to make it transparent) that close with the asteroid. There are some another options./QUOTE]
Yes, there are ways. And Duke Plus even allows to make decompression indeed pull the player out.

But generally Duke3D is a pretty wacky game, so such detail are usually not considered important.

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I don't think he'd like it. There are many levels with puzzles that "don't make sense" and seeing how not finding one key in Gotham turned him against the level I think he'd hate many of the levels in The Gate.

Maybe. I personally dislike puzzles and "skip" if I can't solve it in 5-20 minutes (depending on how good the level is), but I recall I ran The Gate through using cheats only a couple times on the later levels of 3rd and 4th episode. And out of maps and TC, it's on less "puzzly" side, really it's one of the simplest TC I've played (not counting Caribs and Winter). But then it's less simple than the original, indeed.

Blue Lightning · 05-20-2008, 10:34 AM

I look forward to those maps, but first a final score on ym500g.

Actually, I was almost done with the map last night just 20 minutes in, and didn't realize it! It is a short map, no doubt. I already reviewed it a few posts back, so let me just add that I liked the layout of the map, even though in was very linear, as I have mentioned. There were no puzzles that were hard, so I could concern my self with "what's around the next corner" without having to get frustrated trying to figure out how to get to that next corner! Don't get me wrong, I do not mind a puzzle that makes you think, but too many maps have puzzles that absolutly stop a players pace...sometimes for an hour. Not in this map I am happy to report.

An offering of a shrinker about half way through, with lot's of ammo, added some fun-factor and was some strong sauce. I would of liked a few open areas with multiple routes, but honestly, the map is so short I didn't have time to get bored. This is closer to the map I have been looking for. Not perfect, but certainly a good experience.

Pros: From the many windows that allow you to see space as you romp through, to the eerie sounds of the "alarm area", to the computers that contantly give messages left behind by people who warned they are under attack... this map provides good atmosphere. The linear corridoors are well laid out, and offer some varity in the enviroment as you go. The weapon offerings are just right here, and offer a real balence to gameplay.

Cons: Length. The map is very short. However, on hard it probebly takes longer. Although I judge by quality and not quanity, I still insist on resaonable length for a map. If this map was just another 5 minutes long, it would of escaped this issue. Also I would of liked to see a few "open areas" that offered a couple of routes to the same place. All in all however, a fun map.

ymf500g Final Score: 87/100

This is much more like it

Sang · 05-20-2008, 10:36 AM

20 minutes is actually somewhat "the norm" for a Duke map's length it seems. A gargantuan amount of maps is 20 minutes long. Maps longer than that are not that common (unless you play through maps like a retard or something

)

Blue Lightning · 05-20-2008, 10:43 AM

Actually it is not a 20 minute map...more like 10 minutes. I was just playing it very slow last night so I could take in everything and I even did some backtracking.

HangNail · 05-20-2008, 11:35 AM

Wow, this thread is very interesting. A question was asked if there were any high quality sp maps/mods for Duke3d. When the question is anwsered (yes there is), then the topic changes to those maps are not up to my standards. Then the person posing the original question proceeds to explain that he is best qualified to cratique maps because he has been playing video games for a long time. Sorry, but to be a good critic, people have to respect your opinion.
Anyway, back on topic, yes there are dozens of maps that are equal to or better then the original Duke3d maps and can be downloaded at the few remaining Duke sites. If you don't agree with weather the maps are top quality or not is just a personal opinion and carries no weight with me. I personally believe that this thread was started to toot your own horn as a critic, but that's just my opinion.

Blue Lightning · 05-20-2008, 12:14 PM

As I have stated several times, my opinion is just that...an opinion. I do not think I am the worlds foremost authority on reviewing FPS games, and I am not trying to "toot my own horn", though sometimes it may "come off that way". Hopefully, I can offer real insight and ideas that help map makers in the future turn out a higher quality production. That is my real goal here. Some players do respect my opinion, and others (like you) do not. But either way, I hope you have enjoyed the read.

3DRealms, Ken Silverman, and the Eduke and HRP teams have really gone out of their way to make Duke Nukem 3D more playable for future generations. We are the first generation of Duke 3D players, but we certainly will not be the last. Hopefully, many generations down the line even 50 years from now will want to crank up this classic game and really enjoy it's unique gameplay experience. Many features in Duke 3D have not been seen in any other game, and my guess is that it's gameplay qualities will never be seen completley in any one future game. It is up to all of us, to make sure the future players can get a maximum enjoyment out of this game.

As I have stated, I do not have the technical skills to make a map, although I wish I did.

I do not think it would be easy or quick to learn, although I know that BUILD is the easiest engine to make maps for. So for now, all I can offer is what I am doing in this thread...pushing map makers (hopefully) to the limits and achieve the achievable...a near perfect DN3D map. My name is nowhere in any of the credits of either Duke 3D, or any of the SP maps made for it, but I don't care. If I can contribute anything for the future, even though my controbutions are small, it will have been a worth while endeavor.

What I am trying to say is that since I don't have skills to build a map, the best I can do to contribute is what I am doing here. I know that it isn't much, but it's the best I can offer. I do not know if it will even make a difference at all...that will be up to the map makers who read it.

Radar1013 · 05-20-2008, 03:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Blue Lightning

So the next question is "what makes Blue Lightning qualified to review maps and give an opinion?" My answer to that would be that I am a long-time gamer. It is no secret that I only play FPS games (which Echo on another forum won't let me forget by quoting me saying that in his sig

), and I have played almost all FPS games since 1997, when I started PC gaming. I love PC FPS gaming. It is the ultimate joy, and escape from reality. Duke Nukem 3D was my first...after that I played DooM and then Quake, and so on.

you are trying to toot your own horn, for no one asked you that question.

v10 · 05-20-2008, 03:56 PM

TBH, you aren't really as much of a seasoned oldskool player compared to many. I.e., playing only FPS, having started with Duke3d (many, inc.me, started 3D with Wolfenstein), only finding a favourite in 2004 (HL2), etc., and no programming or modding experience, it's all not the greatest resume for a game journalist. Not that you are intending to be one, just... well, the people considered experts on games (as much as one can be expert on that) usually know programming, level building, modding, etc, themselves, in addition to being versed on game history and able to compare games to older games, not newer ones. And experience in building levels or games is one of the steps that really make one a qualified reviewer, as that means he knows the limits.

I.e. not that it's wrong that you post micro-reviews, but really there are reasons behind people not taking the scores too seriously.

DeeperThought · 05-20-2008, 04:34 PM

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Originally Posted by v10

the people considered experts on games (as much as one can be expert on that) usually know programming, level building, modding, etc, themselves, in addition to being versed on game history and able to compare games to older games, not newer ones. And experience in building levels or games is one of the steps that really make one a qualified reviewer, as that means he knows the limits.

You are right about what it takes to be a game expert, but I think you are missing the point here. I don't agree with most of LH's opinions, but I think he is right about one thing: one need not be a technical expert on games in order to be a good judge of games. Games are a form of entertainment, and (with perhaps some rare exceptions) are designed to be appreciated by those without technical knowledge of how they are produced. I don't know how to make movies, but I can tell good movies from bad. The same applies to games. Moreover, I have seen cases where people who are experts in technical areas put too much emphasis on those things and not enough emphasis on gameplay.

05-20-2008, 05:10 PM

By that logic Doom 1 and 2 suck because you cant jump, it's not realistic lololol. let him be people.

We, the community, know how much effort it took to make a great episode like roch and we know that the day we'll ever see something like that is far, far away.
This is NOT "bandwagon jumping" just because you dont agree with it (which is a pretty annoying thing to say...)
As someone said, you can give your opinion, but if it's an opinion, state it as one, not as a review. if it's only an opinion then WHY are you bringing all the time stuff like "I've been playing for so long, I'm qualified" "I have to review STALKER" "I reviewed HL2"...One doesn't need to back up a simple opinion with all that crap. You are saying all this because you want to be taken seriously but you're obviously doing it at the wrong place.

If you want people to agree with you, go to another forum with people that doensn't know anything about the build engine, they will agree with you, believe me. But here, were we all mapped for Build and we all know the engine, we can laugh at you.

I could go and review Wolfenstein right now, and say "The graphics suck, the MODELS of the doors aren't detailed enough, the maps are too open ended, too linear, etc ,etc" I'm sure i'd be laughed at forever and ever.

You know what your problem is? You're trying to make a review while being biased towards one type of gaming. What gaming? YOUR GAMING. You want every single map to be just like your tastes. A good reviewer is flexible and knows when to be, what people like, takes in consideration what most people call GOOD. If you go to a forum and find that 8 out 10 people disagree with you, then something is very, very wrong with your review. Please, think about it BEFORE POSTING AN EXCELLENT GRAMMAR "REBUTTAL"

.

EDIT:

Now that I think about it...I've got a challenge for you. Let's review the EXACT SAME MAP. You make your review, I make mine. Bear in mind that it would be my FIRST EVER review, so, "supposedly" you have advantage over me. And let's see what people think. Are you up for it?

diehard52 · 05-20-2008, 05:36 PM

is this the roch you guys are talking about? http://duke3d.bur.st/maps/Roch if so I never played it until now, and im finding it difficult to see what is so spectacular about this?

05-20-2008, 05:38 PM

It's an episode, not one map, and yes, the first ones aren't that great.

Blue Lightning · 05-20-2008, 05:47 PM

Neither are the middle ones or the last ones.

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