Hanging with the evolving FPS genre.

[Cerberus_e]

me neither, but I don't have a problem running it on lower quality.
as long as it's not 640*480 without AA

[The Count]

Cerberus_e said:

because doom 3 has an original (doom) just like DNF has an original (duke3D).
there is about the same amount of time between both games of both series.

Sorry, but the comparison lacks an important fact:
Doom3 was officially announced from the start as a remake of Doom1 while DNF never was supposed to be a remake of DN3D and surely won`t be...

[Falciform]

I imagine in a year or so I'll dump 2k-2.5k on a good platform that will be upgradeable for a while after. I'm toying with the idea of possibly getting a 40"-50" widescreen DLP (or whatever tech looks most promising at the time) and hooking it up. Imagine 50 inches of Duke glory.

[Cerberus_e]

The Count said:

Sorry, but the comparison lacks an important fact:
Doom3 was officially announced from the start as a remake of Doom1 while DNF never was supposed to be a remake of DN3D and surely won`t be...

true

[FireFly]

I'm hoping DNF will be a modern game and not a remake of Duke 3D.

[ZuljinRaynor]

FireFly said:
I'm hoping DNF will be a modern game and not a remake of Duke 3D.

It can't be a remake if it's a sequel to DN3D.

[SyntaxN]

FireFly said:
I'm hoping DNF will be a modern game and not a remake of Duke 3D.

Yep....

[Kristian Joensen]

FireFly said:
I'm hoping DNF will be a modern game and not a remake of Duke 3D.

But you still want it to be similar to Duke3D in a number of key areas, right ?

If that is the case then we agree.

[FireFly]

Of course. I'm not saying remove the shrinker or the pipebombs or anything.

[Micki!]

FireFly said:
Of course. I'm not saying remove the shrinker or the pipebombs or anything.

I wouldn't want that to happen...

[Kristian Joensen]

I wasn't necessarily talking about that, I am talking about things like Duke's attitude, onelines, personality and the action in general as well the the interactivity and awesome level design. I want new and old school elements side by side, I don't want story instead of action I want story AND action.

Like many people have pointed out Duke is about kicking ass I want that to remain. However that is in no way incompatable with having a fleshed out story.

[FireFly]

Oh but that is exactly what I want. For me what's important is that the action is 'meaningful', that it has not just a context in terms of the plot, but an emotional context - you're not just kicking ass, you're saving the world.

That's what games lack, a feeling that your involvement has a greater meaning. You don't even need to get philosophical about it, just think about your favourite moments in action movies - were they memorable just because of the action itself, or because of what was behind the action?

What I'm expecting from DNF are action sequences fit to be in a blockbuster movie, with the emotional involvement of said movie. So when the shit hits the fan, the player should be under no illusions that he's the last line of defence - 'humanities last hope'. And playing Duke should be all about fulfilling that roll, becoming an unstoppable killing machine, tested to the limit as the heroes journey requires, and coming through.

I think it's all summed up by that great line in the E3 trailer

"Hey pal, what are you going to do, save the world all by yourself?"

[Kalki]

hell-angel said:
Sure, it was a bit slower paced then the previous (and other) titles but when the action started it still was pretty fast enough not to get an frag fest and challenging enough to be entertaining.

Doom 3 was different because it was not trying to innovate the gameplay. And god damn it, I loved the game for that.

I actually enjoyed the non-action intro. And by different I didn't mean innovation but was referring to the creation of signature elements to it's gameplay. Because it was somewhere between the flashlight switching and the health-sucking superweapon that the game got a little boring.

[Cerberus_e]

FireFly said:
That's what games lack, a feeling that your involvement has a greater meaning. You don't even need to get philosophical about it, just think about your favourite moments in action movies - were they memorable just because of the action itself, or because of what was behind the action?

you're right
I didn't even realize that myself.

Like I told Kristian Joensen: what I also don't like is boring plots like you'd see in an american action movie (we're not thinking about Schwarzenegger AT ALL ).
there aren't much games with a good story I've played.
the max payne games yes.... but I can't immediately think of a first person shooter with a good story that is emotion packed. A story that touches you emotionally (not necesserily crying) can make a dull story in itself a very good story.
I think Doom 3 is the best then (I honestly don't see how anyone can complain that one has a generic and boring story... well except for the speculative storyline fans ). And Return to Castle Wolfenstein... and Outlaws!

[Micki!]

FireFly said:
Oh but that is exactly what I want. For me what's important is that the action is 'meaningful', that it has not just a context in terms of the plot, but an emotional context - you're not just kicking ass, you're saving the world.

That's what games lack, a feeling that your involvement has a greater meaning. You don't even need to get philosophical about it, just think about your favourite moments in action movies - were they memorable just because of the action itself, or because of what was behind the action?

What I'm expecting from DNF are action sequences fit to be in a blockbuster movie, with the emotional involvement of said movie. So when the shit hits the fan, the player should be under no illusions that he's the last line of defence - 'humanities last hope'. And playing Duke should be all about fulfilling that roll, becoming an unstoppable killing machine, tested to the limit as the heroes journey requires, and coming through.

I think it's all summed up by that great line in the E3 trailer

"Hey pal, what are you going to do, save the world all by yourself?"

I have made a Fanart drawing of Duke, which (kinda) fits PERFECTLY to that describtion...
Unfortunately, it's an exclusive art for Duke4.net ... You'll have to wait for the launch

[FireFly]

I think the Halo 2 in-engine trailer is good example of what I'm talking about. Shame they ruined the scene for the final game.

http://www2.mythica.org/halo/hbo/hal..._qt6_large.mov

[SyntaxN]

FireFly said:
I think the Halo 2 in-engine trailer is good example of what I'm talking about. Shame they ruined the scene for the final game.

http://www2.mythica.org/halo/hbo/hal..._qt6_large.mov

ahhh please don´t remind me on this one....the good old Halo 2 graphics engine looked so damn amazing

[trackit]

FireFly said:
I think the Halo 2 in-engine trailer is good example of what I'm talking about. Shame they ruined the scene for the final game.

http://www2.mythica.org/halo/hbo/hal..._qt6_large.mov

what makes you think this trailer has something to do with actual game? the character movement etc was far too smooth to be true imo.

(i havent played Halo 2 and dont know much about it and that trailer though...)

[FireFly]

What you see there is done in-engine, in real time. It was the first Halo 2 footage released and functioned as a teaser and engine demo, but the cutscene made it into the final game in modified form.

[Beelze]

Cerberus_e said:
I think Doom 3 is the best then (I honestly don't see how anyone can complain that one has a generic and boring story...

This reminds me of how much I like the icon.

[Cerberus_e]

see, I don't understand you

[FireFly]

I liked that quote more before my name was edited out.

[dark_angel]

Due to the fact that 3drealms are capable of incorporating any type of gameplay/ideas shown in the interactivity thread or even their own ideas indicate that they have built a state of the art engine.

They wasted like 4 years to find an appropriate engine to suit their gameplay desires and thank God that the C++ " Daikatana" guy and the other programmers were capable of creating a monstrous engine.

Can't way to see the game in action!

[Kristian Joensen]

What Daikatan guy ?

Since when are they able to implement everything in the interactivity threads ?

The quote you gave us from Charlie didn't say that.

[dark_angel]

They have hired a C++ programmer who worked on Daikatana but left the project one year before its completion. ( There is a thread somewhere about it, Maybe FireFly can find it).

about Charlie's quote.

It's kinda funny but someone will post an idea in the interactivity thread and everyone will make fun of them because it sounds so unreasonable, and we'll look at each other and go "Actually, we could do that if we wanted to"

Now how you interpret " so unreasonable "?

Hard to implement?

beyond the limit?

[Kristian Joensen]

" It's kinda funny but someone will post an idea in the interactivity thread"

He is talking about that idea, I mean he isn't saying that they can implement everything in those two threads just that some of the things we don't think would be possible ARE possible.

[SyntaxN]

I think it´s hard to "evolve" the FPS genre in big steps anymore, that would have been possible in 2001 or so, but HL2 did one of the biggest steps Duke should have done (imo), creating a truly believable and realistic world! (mainly through making physics a part of the gameplay)
Yeah interactivity might be a way to evolve it, but it won´t be a really new step simply because games like Duke3d did that...

[dark_angel]

Well if they can implement everything, will you be sad?

anyway, if someone is capable of implementing even the " so unreasonable " idea, is it hard for him to implement the less unreasonable ones?

[Kristian Joensen]

No I wouldn't be sad, ofcource not !!!

"anyway, if someone is capable of implementing even the " so unreasonable " idea, is it hard for him to implement the less unreasonable ones?"

Ofcourse not but there might even more unreasonable ones.

[Cerberus_e]

believeable world had been done before, physics as part of gameplay had also been done before

[dark_angel]

Let's just not delve into these type of discussions that are based on assumptions and a single statement analyses.

Let's just say that 3DREALMS thanks to their engine are capable of implementing gameplay types never seen in a game before.

As you know an engine dictates what type of gameplay that could be implemented in a game.

[FireFly]

They can't implement everything in that thread. Some of the ideas were so ridiculous they were obviously jokes.

Anyway I believe you're talking about Jonathan Wright, the lead programmer for Daikatana who worked on the A.I before leaving to join Third Law Interactive. 3DR picked him up in fall 2002, when much of the engine work was already underway.

[SyntaxN]

Cerberus_e said:
believeable world had been done before, physics as part of gameplay had also been done before

I don´t know which game(s) you´re talking about, HL2 did by far the biggest step in this category imo... (what don´t means it´s the best game of all time, no way )
I don´t want to indicate that DNF is going to suck or something but I think the time where it might have been a revolution is over.
The thing which is left for 3dr is making everything *much* better

[dark_angel]

Of course everything after filtering the ideas

Yeah, Jonathan Wright!

[Kristian Joensen]

He is at Id now.

[dark_angel]

When did he move to Id ?

[Kristian Joensen]

I don't know. But he is listed here.

[Cerberus_e]

SyntaxN said:

I don´t know which game(s) you´re talking about, HL2 did by far the biggest step in this category imo...

call of duty made a believable word by having lots of scripted sequences to make it seem the world is alive. just like HL2 did.
trespasser and painkiller were before HL2 for physics part of gameplay

[trackit]

Kristian Joensen said:
I don't know. But he is listed here.

ID and 3DR is quite near to eachother as i remember... maybe he is working i both offices

[trackit]

Cerberus_e said:
call of duty made a believable word by having lots of scripted sequences to make it seem the world is alive. just like HL2 did.
trespasser and painkiller were before HL2 for physics part of gameplay

i love painkiller.... no storyline but good gameplay. coolest weapons, those flying gibs etc, awsome. And it even ran good on my old machine (celeron 2Ghz, geforce fx5200)

EDIT: in the matter of fact i think im gonna install it again on my new machine right now, because of your post...