What about a ROTT-to-Build converter...

Devil Master · 01-03-2004, 03:33 AM

...instead of a GLROTT?
I mean, since the Build engine can do everything that the ROTT engine could do, what about making a program to convert ROTT levels and art to a format that Duke3D can support? This way, we'd have right away everything that the latest Duke3D port has!

01-04-2004, 01:27 AM

Don't think it's possible. ROTT uses, technically, a souped up version of the Wolf3D Engine, and the editor itself used to create levels was TED.

Still, you never know... just my two cents.

Devil Master · 01-04-2004, 06:40 AM

Why do you think it's impossible? Just because the engines are different? Consider that a Doom-to-Build converter was included in the Duke3D CD and George said that they made a Build-to-DNF converter a LONG time ago...

Hudson · 01-04-2004, 12:13 PM

Well the problem is getting permission from 3DRealms to recreate ROTT using Build/Duke3d and finding someone who can and will do the conversion.

Last time I checked 3DRealms forbidded the recreation of any of their products.. but since this is a more sensitive matter.. I would contact them via email/pm and ask more formally. Just IMHO.

Devil Master · 01-05-2004, 05:42 AM

That's why I specifically asked about a program to do that. That way, there's no need to distribute Duke3D versions of ROTT levels, as anyone could make them for himself.

Diddl · 01-08-2004, 04:17 AM

rott on duke3d engine would not be the same ...

the rott feeling would be be lost. rott is very fast and moves are directly. there is another feeling - i cannot explain this ... my english is too bad.

Wally Waffles · 02-04-2006, 01:14 AM

I don't think a ROTT to Duke3D converter would be too hard. The ROTT maps where just objects on a grid....enclosed spaces could be inturpreted as sectors, the wall textures would be assigned according to the pillar objects, and items & baddies would just be sprite placement. Floors-over-floors could be done with flat sprites.

The only real problem would be mechanical implimentation of things like the moving hover disks and the spring boards.

I once manually recreated the "Dark Tunnels" level from the shareware episode as a Duke3D level, which turned out really well. (And, out of boredom, I also recreated the level "This causes an error.")

If anybody's interested, I'll see if I can dig up my ROTT-to-Duke3D level.

MarkJ · 02-05-2006, 07:50 AM

You have hit most of the major issues on the head. Actual level conversion (minus anything functional) would be fairly straight forward. Even some of the basic moving walls could probably be recreated without many issues. But the headaches start rolling in when you get to the more complicated effects. Many things could be reproduced with scripting (Like your EGADS and jump-pads), and some of the architectual features could be fixed using flat sprites.

It isn't until you sit down and actually write one of these things that you realize just how many issues there actually are.

A while back, it tried to write a complete level conversion tool for doom levels. And when I say convert, I mean a total conversion, not something which you run and then spend days fixing up after. It could convert the levels ,graphics, sprites, identify and repair some of the structural errors and imperfections rife throughout doom levels, handle addon wads, it could even handle EXE mods and such.

But then you convert a level, and everything looks rosie at a first glance, until you really start scrutinizing things. Upper/Lower textures can't be replicated when used in certain combinations. Some data errors can't be resolved because they are too messed up to begin with. Masked walls don't repeat vertically in Doom. Textures with odd vertical heights render differently in Doom than in Duke. And all this is even before you actually try and play the level and have a chance to see all the things that only crop up in action (like pegging issues).

My point is that although at face value, these things may seem straight forward, there is a lot involved, and almost always, some lossage of content occurs as a result.

But with that said, I wouldn't mind having a whack at it if and when I get time.

01-04-2004, 01:27 AM	#2
Dark Pulse Guest	Re: What about a ROTT-to-Build converter Don't think it's possible. ROTT uses, technically, a souped up version of the Wolf3D Engine, and the editor itself used to create levels was TED. Still, you never know... just my two cents.

01-03-2004, 03:33 AM	#1
Devil Master	What about a ROTT-to-Build converter... ...instead of a GLROTT? I mean, since the Build engine can do everything that the ROTT engine could do, what about making a program to convert ROTT levels and art to a format that Duke3D can support? This way, we'd have right away everything that the latest Duke3D port has!

01-04-2004, 06:40 AM	#3
Devil Master	Re: What about a ROTT-to-Build converter Why do you think it's impossible? Just because the engines are different? Consider that a Doom-to-Build converter was included in the Duke3D CD and George said that they made a Build-to-DNF converter a LONG time ago...

01-04-2004, 12:13 PM	#4
Hudson	Re: What about a ROTT-to-Build converter Well the problem is getting permission from 3DRealms to recreate ROTT using Build/Duke3d and finding someone who can and will do the conversion. Last time I checked 3DRealms forbidded the recreation of any of their products.. but since this is a more sensitive matter.. I would contact them via email/pm and ask more formally. Just IMHO. __________________ Staying Frosty Since 09/06/07 - I love you Katie <3 “Software is like sex; it's better when it's free.” - Linus Torvalds “Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.” - Calvin & Hobbes [INSERT SYSTEM SPECS THAT NO ONE CARES ABOUT HERE]

01-05-2004, 05:42 AM	#5
Devil Master	Re: What about a ROTT-to-Build converter That's why I specifically asked about a program to do that. That way, there's no need to distribute Duke3D versions of ROTT levels, as anyone could make them for himself.

01-08-2004, 04:17 AM	#6
Diddl	Re: What about a ROTT-to-Build converter rott on duke3d engine would not be the same ... the rott feeling would be be lost. rott is very fast and moves are directly. there is another feeling - i cannot explain this ... my english is too bad.

02-04-2006, 01:14 AM	#7
Wally Waffles	Re: What about a ROTT-to-Build converter I don't think a ROTT to Duke3D converter would be too hard. The ROTT maps where just objects on a grid....enclosed spaces could be inturpreted as sectors, the wall textures would be assigned according to the pillar objects, and items & baddies would just be sprite placement. Floors-over-floors could be done with flat sprites. The only real problem would be mechanical implimentation of things like the moving hover disks and the spring boards. I once manually recreated the "Dark Tunnels" level from the shareware episode as a Duke3D level, which turned out really well. (And, out of boredom, I also recreated the level "This causes an error.") If anybody's interested, I'll see if I can dig up my ROTT-to-Duke3D level.

02-05-2006, 07:50 AM	#8
MarkJ	Re: What about a ROTT-to-Build converter You have hit most of the major issues on the head. Actual level conversion (minus anything functional) would be fairly straight forward. Even some of the basic moving walls could probably be recreated without many issues. But the headaches start rolling in when you get to the more complicated effects. Many things could be reproduced with scripting (Like your EGADS and jump-pads), and some of the architectual features could be fixed using flat sprites. It isn't until you sit down and actually write one of these things that you realize just how many issues there actually are. A while back, it tried to write a complete level conversion tool for doom levels. And when I say convert, I mean a total conversion, not something which you run and then spend days fixing up after. It could convert the levels ,graphics, sprites, identify and repair some of the structural errors and imperfections rife throughout doom levels, handle addon wads, it could even handle EXE mods and such. But then you convert a level, and everything looks rosie at a first glance, until you really start scrutinizing things. Upper/Lower textures can't be replicated when used in certain combinations. Some data errors can't be resolved because they are too messed up to begin with. Masked walls don't repeat vertically in Doom. Textures with odd vertical heights render differently in Doom than in Duke. And all this is even before you actually try and play the level and have a chance to see all the things that only crop up in action (like pegging issues). My point is that although at face value, these things may seem straight forward, there is a lot involved, and almost always, some lossage of content occurs as a result. But with that said, I wouldn't mind having a whack at it if and when I get time. __________________ I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted the pay checks.