Revisions

[Tesserex]

If you're suggesting we hand shade things instead of using filters to do it for us, you must be slightly crazy. I rely on the exactness of filters to make the gradient of lighting even and smooth. If I tried shading things by hand it would look like absolute shit. The lighting I did for 223 and 251 used filters, but I knew when to go past that and do more work than just that.

[Cipher]

Kev_Hectic said:

Here, I darkened them up a bit. How does this look?

I think they look spot on.

Also, here is yet more evidence that tile 880 ( the common wood texture ) needs to be changed.

Originals: Similar kinds of wood.
Highres: Completely different kinds of wood.

That's pretty much a continuity-killer.

[Stu Redman]

You are right, but I still do not like the tone of this thread. Too much bitching and too little constructive work imho.
It is obvious than many people put LOTS of work into this project, lots more than it takes to post "hey, this looks poor" (and not even taking time to add the comparison pics like some did in this thread). I don't think they'll find it motivating to continue spending time on it if they only get nagged at.
If you don't like a certain texture, make a better one, post it, explain why it's better and how it was done, so others can benefit from it.
Just my 2c.

[Parkar]

WarHammer said:

Perhaps, but anything worth doing is worth doing...yadda, yadda. I know you've said you would rather have average replacements for everything rather than perfect replacements for some things, and although I respect that, I tend to disagree. We already have decent placeholders for everything in the game...the original content. I would rather not see half the textures need redone sometime down the road because too little time was spent on them to do them right.

...

That's not quiet what I meant. Just saying there is way worse textures then the better ones in your post. I agree on the majority of them though. I just think focusing on the worst once first is a good idea.

[Cipher]

Stu Redman said:
You are right, but I still do not like the tone of this thread. Too much bitching and too little constructive work imho.
It is obvious than many people put LOTS of work into this project, lots more than it takes to post "hey, this looks poor" (and not even taking time to add the comparison pics like some did in this thread). I don't think they'll find it motivating to continue spending time on it if they only get nagged at.
If you don't like a certain texture, make a better one, post it, explain why it's better and how it was done, so others can benefit from it.
Just my 2c.

I'm not trying to nag at anyone. I'm just trying to post some constructive criticsm on how some of the textures could be made better. And, yes, occasionally, one may need to be redone because it honestly tears apart the theme of an otherwise finished room. But if so, I try not to say "hey, this looks poor" but say what needs fixing.

I have been opposed to people bashing each other's textures from the first post on this thread, I just forgot to post that statement in the beginning.

[Kev_Hectic]

Cipher said:

Also, here is yet more evidence that tile 880 ( the common wood texture ) needs to be changed.

Originals: Similar kinds of wood.
Highres: Completely different kinds of wood.

That's pretty much a continuity-killer.

Here's the wood texture I used to make the high-res cupboard in that image you posted. It might be hard to see on some computer screens, but it's the same one. It might be too small, but maybe someone could edit it into a new floor board? ...

[Kev_Hectic]

Oh, and also here's the unedited version of that same image...

I started out with this one here, and darkened it up to make it look like the one I posted above...

[Cipher]

AAAHHHHH! Evil Artifacts!!!

[WarHammer]

Stu Redman said:
You are right, but I still do not like the tone of this thread. Too much bitching and too little constructive work imho.
It is obvious than many people put LOTS of work into this project, lots more than it takes to post "hey, this looks poor" (and not even taking time to add the comparison pics like some did in this thread). I don't think they'll find it motivating to continue spending time on it if they only get nagged at.
If you don't like a certain texture, make a better one, post it, explain why it's better and how it was done, so others can benefit from it.
Just my 2c.

I plan to redo some of the ones I pointed out if someone else doesn't do them first. In fact, I had already started redoing 0395 but Kev_Hectic beat me to it and his is good enough I may not bother finishing.

Tesserex said:
If you're suggesting we hand shade things instead of using filters to do it for us, you must be slightly crazy. I rely on the exactness of filters to make the gradient of lighting even and smooth. If I tried shading things by hand it would look like absolute shit. The lighting I did for 223 and 251 used filters, but I knew when to go past that and do more work than just that.

I don't appear to have either of those so I can't comment directly but I'm not saying filters should not be used at all. They have their place but they should not be used as a main element. Sometimes hand-drawn elements, with all their imperfections, look more realistic. Artists somehow managed to get by just fine without automated filters for thousands of years. But then, a lot of classic artists were indeed slightly crazy, so you might be right on that point.

[Tesserex]

OK if you were just referring to shying away from filters to do stuff like scratches and dirt and organic shapes, then I agree. I was referring to like tech stuff that is machine made.

[zilppuri]

Here are my nags. My comments might sound harsh, but I don't want to add "I think it's.." and "should try some more" or "good first attempt" on everyone.
I am mostly focusing here in copyright issues and textures that really don't deserve the image size they are using (=the original looks better).

568
Doesn't really look "better" than original. MS Paint.

577
Illegal rip-off. Isn't anyway close to original. Sad.

698
Low-Res image rip-off.

735
Blurry

766
Illegal rip-off

820
Good, but too sharp details. Looks flashy without AA, and you need to go ridiculously near to see all the "siginifant detail"

963
Illegal rip-off

964
Illegal rip-off

1054
Screencap from a game and MS Paint. Illegal? Maybe, but atleast doesn't look Dukeish.

1074
Illegal rip-off

1169
Scaled up JPEG photo? Looks too blurry.

1292
Rip-off video

1298
Rip-off video

4362
MS Paint and material stolen from 3DRealms. Off the pack now?

4498
Rip-Off

4945
Rip-off


And there are more! I know there are people who like to help in any way they can. But stealing stuff from net, or from your porn-HD isn't really the way to go.

Also those Doggie and Eagle pics (4505 and 4519) with some HQ2X "effect"... well since they so CLEARLY use original 3Drealms art as base, shouldn't we get rid off them as fast as possible? Same as with 4362.

It would be great if Killd a ton, or someone could make newer todo list with side-by-side view of the old and new textures (I know this has been suggested before), so we could easily see the bad-apples such these.

No stolen girlie pics in duke!!

[Parkar]

The lady posters are gone since a long time ago, in the HRP anyway.

[zilppuri]

good

I might try to "re-do" some of them.

I do have the 'newest' HRP beta installed, but only the ones that were replaced by new ones got fixed in my folder. D'oh!

[Stu Redman]

Parkar said:
The lady posters are gone since a long time ago, in the HRP anyway.

Pity. I liked them.
Ok, ok, you are absolutely right to throw maybe-copyrighted material out, and who wants them can keep them anyway.

Suggestion: before everybody starts searching for bad textures in the current HRP - how about a new beta first ? People have created tons of stuff since the last release, which could easily be overlooked.

[Combat Chuck]

WarHammer said:
0852
This texture's not too bad but the REBAR looks a little blurry and the color is quite a bit off.

Personally, I think the shadows cast by the rebar are a little inconsistent, too.

4165
To be honest, I don't know where this texture is used but I can at least tell that the replacement looks very different from the original.

This texture is used as the hood, roof, and trunk of the car in Pigsty. That texture's nowhere near accurate for automobile steel.

[Kev_Hectic]

zilppuri said:
1169
Scaled up JPEG photo? Looks too blurry.

Personally, I don't think that's a bad texture. But I agree that it looks too much like a bad .jpg.

Here, I tried to fix it up a bit...

[Luigi]

zilppuri there are better versions of the magazines:


Also there is a texture on the first map of the third episode that looks nothing like the original:

[Another Duke Fan]

Yeah, that ugly blowfish thing... I brought that in, in the early days of the project... It is a rip off and if you ask me, it should have disappeared a long time ago. IMHO.

[Iggy]

zilppuri said:698
Low-Res image rip-off.

Can't remember seeing that one before, what is it?

[Rellik66]

Iggy said:

Can't remember seeing that one before, what is it?

it's a Sushi Plate from Episode 3 Level 1

[Killd a ton]

you can find links for all the updated and legal girl posters in the to do list.

[Symok]

Killd a ton said:
you can find links for all the updated and legal girl posters in the to do list.

#964 has been taken down by ImageShack

[Rellik66]

Symok said:

#964 has been taken down by ImageShack

That's because it went through a revision, and I removed the previous one, here's the updated one.

[Boinky]

Something about there faces.. I cant quite put it.. Like whitetrash redneck whores!! man they turn me on!

[Iggy]

Rellik66 said:That's because it went through a revision, and I removed the previous one, here's the updated one.

Strange background, did the original had something like this? There's something funny about the facial expression of the redhaired one, like she thinks "I'd rather eat you then 5cr3w her."

Oh, still bitching with that rightupperleg of her?

[Mblackwell]

I dunno about you, but I prefer women with all of their internal organs who's ribs aren't visible and who don't look possessed by demons.

...but it's a start.

[Piterplus]

852 was one of my first textures done for the project. I agree that overall colors are not exactly like in original and rusty bars was blurred. But truly speaking, even not perfect as it was it looks surprisingly natural ingame (at least for me).
I redid it slightly today, not much, just a little closer to original, but basicaly its the same tile :

[Piterplus]

http://members.lycos.co.uk/piterplus/download/4268.jpg
Revised

[Jblade]

Mblackwell said:
I dunno about you, but I prefer women with all of their internal organs who's ribs aren't visible and who don't look possessed by demons.

...but it's a start.

I agree - sorry but those poser women really don't fit with Dukes style. I appreciate it must take a while to make but it's incredibly easy to spot models that are made with poser and you can't really achieve unique looks with them either.

[Rellik66]

Jblade said:

I agree - sorry but those poser women really don't fit with Dukes style. I appreciate it must take a while to make but it's incredibly easy to spot models that are made with poser and you can't really achieve unique looks with them either.

So what do you suggest? You can say they don't work at all, but you need to provide or suggest some sort of solution.

For instance, I suppose we could get a good artist who could redraw the posters by hand, but until then, what I have done will do since they aren't infringing like the old ones.

Some time when I have the energy and time, I may revise the SAIII poster once again, (I Have a few ideas,) but right now I don't have the time.

[Mr.Fibbles]

You should really be happy that we even have these. I mean it took parkar a while to make the stripper model and the hooker model i am pretty sure took some time as well. making people is hard, that is why we have mostly focused on the simple inanimate objects or the guns, they dont require, generaly, us to think about what reality is. making a human body figure is hard enough, then rigging it to make it pose the way you want it to is even harder. animating a model to look realistic is incredibly difficult unless you have a lot of both patience and practice. the guys here who have produced anything at all are very talented and have enough time to put aside beyond their normal lives to model a few things for a "upgrading" of a computer game that was made almost 10 years ago by profesionals, and might i add the best in the FPS business, IMHO.
Live with what you get unless you can do better. I like that motto, and here it is most appropiate.

yeah things arent perfect but this isnt a commercial thing and these people are not making money off of this.

[Ryanthelurkster]

yeah really, don't complain

[Rellik66]

I agree, complaining does little to help.

This thread is about constructive critisism, not bitching about the textures.

in any case, I found a little time to tweak the poster, different model on the redhead and different err, clothing. This is only a test shot and by no means is it near the final product.

[Parkar]

Her face does look a lot better.

I think a bit of regular bitching is not completely useless since it could get the author to take a second look and maybe find something that could be improved. Just a little bit to much of that and it might have the opposite effect so if you have any constructive crtis please share them rather then just say it looks bad.

Doing the babes from scratch is likely to have the same issues that poser models do. The poser models are made by professional modellers after all. The reason to make them from scratch would be to make more original models and get the looks closer to the originals not to improve the actual quality.

Modelling, rigging, animating, skinning humans do take time, lots of time. I think I have spent well over 100 hours on Duke and the Stripper in total, maybe as much as 200. Is should realy make sure to time my self next time I do a more advanced model.

Edit: On the humans in renders, exporting the poser models and render them using a more advanced renderer could realy improve the looks of it. Things like advanced lightning systems and subsurface scattering can realy make the renders one hell of a lot more realistic.

[Symok]

Parkar said:
Her face does look a lot better.

Agreed! Though there seems to be something not quite right about the arm... it curves inward a little too much.

Also, this is just my oppinion, but I think it looks better with her hand on the back of her head rather than hanging out in the air like it is in that one.

Great work either way, though. Far, far more than I could ever hope to achieve.

[Jblade]

This thread is about constructive critisism, not bitching about the textures.

That's what I'm giving then. How are you supposed to improve when you have people jumping down each other's throats when they meet criticism? The Poser women don't fit into Duke's style at all. I'm not saying your work is not appreciated but they just don't fit in. As I already said Poser women don't look attractive at all and the bodies are too muscular and not 'voluptious' at all. Sure, we may not have any better but I'd rather leave it as the original than have a version which, although more detailed, leaves a different 'impression' than the originals. No doubt I'll have some people yelling at me for this post and telling me to 'do better' but it has to be said. People rely way too much on the 'if you can't do any better, don't complain' line which is bullshit really.

[Rellik66]

Symok Said:
Also, this is just my oppinion, but I think it looks better with her hand on the back of her head rather than hanging out in the air like it is in that one.

when I changed the model, the joints didn't transfer exactly and I haven't readjusted them yet. That will come when I have time.

Jblade said:

The Poser women don't fit into Duke's style at all ..[snip].. I'd rather leave it as the original

well, you can go ahead and use the originals until something better comes along.

[zilppuri]

Yeah, well I have NEVER used poser, so I couldn't tell those are poser models. And I also think they look quite good in game. Atleast better than the photo-rip-offs!

But I also think that there is point of maybe rendering them somewhere else. Maybe you could post your work as .obj file or such so I could take a stab at them in Blender?

[Jokke_r]

i believe it's against the license agreement of poser to extract the models or something like that.

[Stu Redman]

Rellik66, you are doing great work with poser. Don't have it spoiled for you, just because Jblade disagrees.
I think these computer generated images fit perfectly into a computer game, along with the new 3d monsters and objects. Better than scans anyway.
Of course the style is changed somehow. That's just what happens if you update pixelized lowres with highres renderings. Maybe a professional computer artist could do even better painting without a renderer, but unless one steps up, well, what we have is much better than good enough.
Guys, these are decorations in a game. When I play through it I think "nice" while shooting up the monsters, then return for an admiring look when things are quiet again, and then move on. I don't care if the arm has a slight curve or not. Nobody is as critical about it as you are yourselves.