[Release]NOSTROMO - A tribute to Alien 1

[Puritan]

Nostromo has been released!

Well, here I go again.
One of my favourite movies of all time is the first movie "Alien". I remember seeing it at the theatre when it first came out and it scared me to the bone.

I've decided to make a Duke level based on the first movie and the surroundings of the freight carrier NOSTROMO.

The story is slightly different from the movie in these terms:

In the movie capt Ripley activates the self-destruction system and then escapes in a pod.
In my map the self-destruction system failes and Duke has to board Nostromo to finish off what Ripley started...

You may find hints and such in this thread

[Usurper]

Messed with it for the last half hour.

The good: awesome architecture. The layout (well, what I've seen; I can't figure out where to go or what I've unlocked) is simple, but the detail is really good.

The bad: the intro. When I load up a map and it's pitch black and I can't walk anywhere and the automap shows me in a tiny sector I can't get out of by jumping or ducking, well, I assume something's broken.

The hell?: batch files. We have game dirs now. I would think we'd be using zip files and game directories for everything.

Anyway, hoping to figure out where to go so I can see the rest of the map without mapster32.

[DeeperThought]

There's supposed to be a long voice clip playing while you are stuck in the little black room. It is timed so you fall out when the clip is done. But if the map is not installed correctly and the sound doesn't play, then it's confusing and most people will give up.

[Puritan]

The txt file is supposed to be read.
If you had taken those two minutes there would be no problems ...
Txt file :

*Important Information*

Installation : Unzip all files into your Duke 3D dir.( Where your EDuke32.exe is located).
Simply press the "StartNost.bat" file.
When you're through playing NOSTROMO simply press "EndNost.bat". ( This removes all files related to NOSTROMO).


***

Mikko Sandt passed the hole thing in 25-30 minutes. Me passed it in 26 minutes.
Any better?

[Usurper]

Read your text file, but there's absolutely no way I'm dumping that into my main duke directory.

Looks like renaming ngame.con to game.con in a subfolder works though.

[eddym4814]

Help! I've been playing this map for about 10-15 minutes and have not found the shotgun. I've got shotgun ammo so I would assume there is a shotgun to be found. Knowing Puritan's levels I will need it later on in the map. I backtracked through the areas I already explored but did not find it. Just a hint would be nice. Thanks, Eddy

[Sang]

Had the same problem. The mood of the map is pretty good, I was always looking around for Newbeasts when I heard a sound.. the silent killers, damn them to hell!

However apart from that the gameplay has flaws: I stumbled in Cargo Bay A and suddenly found myself having to shoot Fat Commanders and other enemies with only a pistol and chaingun, both with not that much ammunition left. To top it off a Miniboss appeared as well, that's when I hightailed it out of there, tried every remaining door that I hadn't tried before.. None of them opened and I don't recall pressing any switches that would've opened another door, so that's when I called it quits.

Also yeah about that intro - the sound worked for me but it was just a little bit too long. It also seemed very pointless. Could've easily done without it.

[moggimus]

I had the same problem... tons of shells but no shotgun! Once I got to the first cargo bay and died, I turned god mode on and ran around kicking stuff to death.

[eddym4814]

Originally Posted by moggimus

I had the same problem... tons of shells but no shotgun! Once I got to the first cargo bay and died, I turned god mode on and ran around kicking stuff to death.

I just found it. I had walked right past the little wall compartment it was in.

[Puritan]

Originally Posted by Sang

Had the same problem. The mood of the map is pretty good, I was always looking around for Newbeasts when I heard a sound.. the silent killers, damn them to hell!

However apart from that the gameplay has flaws: I stumbled in Cargo Bay A and suddenly found myself having to shoot Fat Commanders and other enemies with only a pistol and chaingun, both with not that much ammunition left. To top it off a Miniboss appeared as well, that's when I hightailed it out of there, tried every remaining door that I hadn't tried before.. ...

RPG at your disposal in Cargo bay A. It's not hidden either...

And the shotgun is not hidden. But you don't get all weapons at once.
You got to explore and earn it.
Deck A would be it...

Freezer gun is available. Maybe not to obvious, but it's there.( Deck B).

Shrinker is the only weapon that is hidden.

The map has got two secret rooms. One in the beginning and one towards the end...

***

Nobody have mentioned the ending sequence yet?
Tell me your adrenaline get pumping... :-)

[Sang]

Originally Posted by Puritan

You got to explore and earn it.

I know that's done with the best intentions but, for one, exploring doesn't work that well in Duke 3D and especially not in an enclosed hi-tech area (perhaps it would have worked better in a more open map). Almost everything about the game screams fast-paced action. This doesn't mean that everything should be Serious Sam-like stuff, but trying to emulate much depth in Duke 3D is almost destined to fail, unless you stick it full of cool CON codes and stuff. But we're talking about the "vanilla" Game.

Secondly (and I think this follows up on my first argument), the weapons are quite a basic gameplay element in a game like this. If you make it so that the player has to look for them extensively (and thus somewhat breaking the gameplay flow of the map), you will most likely end up frustrating a lot of players who couldn't find the thing. Of course you wouldn't notice this because you built the map, you know exactly where everything is. This is not the case with other players.

I think what you should have 'hidden' to some extent is the ammo. It seems rather non-sensical to give the players weapons as a reward for exploration, yet put the ammunition for those weapons in plain sight. I think it would have been better if you would put the weapons in a more visible location (like how you've put in the chaingun), give the player enough ammo to be able to survive and give extra ammo to the players that have been more careful in exploring their surroundings.

An idea like this would've worked better in a slower-paced game like System Shock 2 or Deus Ex I think, but not in Duke3D. That's not to say it wasn't a good experiment, it just looks like it doesn't seem to work.

[Puritan]

Again; The weapons are NOT hidden. Except for the shrinker.

Secondly; You don't need to be armed to the teeth when not facing enemies. Matter of fact; both me and one of the betatesters thought of starting weaponless.
Weapons are dispensed after the increasing amount of enemies.

Not seeing the shotgun and even the RPG is beyond my imagination when knowing the experince among some complainers.

[Sang]

That's odd because 3 of the 5 people (not counting you) that posted in this thread mentions they missed the shotgun at first sight.

Again; The weapons are NOT hidden.

Having to explore to be able to find them = hidden in my book. Goodies that are essential to having good gameplay should be in plain sight, in my opinion.

Secondly; You don't need to be armed to the teeth when not facing enemies

This makes sense, apart from the fact that Newbeasts, Octabrains, Enforcers, Liztroops, Fat Commanders and Minibosses (and other things you might've thrown in there that I didn't get to see) are enemies.

Weapons are dispensed after the increasing amount of enemies.

How does that make sense? You're going to give the players ammo just when they have barely survived a fight, rather than before the fight so they might have had less frustrating gameplay?


You mention that your beta-testers had no problems. There are several explanations I can think of why that happens:

1) You happened to pick a small number of beta-testers with a similar taste in gameplay style and as thus would obviously not be bothered by this (in my opinion) pretty big gameplay flaw and who are - I believe - not a representative sample of all Duke user map players.

2) You picked beta-testers who are good friends of yours and wouldn't want to criticize you too much.

3) In the same vein of argument 2 - Your beta testers might have been somewhat idiotic and shallow in their testing.

I've just looked up who your beta testers were and I see that those are Forge and Numan. In this case I think the proper explanation might be a combination of numbers 1 and 2. (because I doubt that they are idiots)

Again, I feel the need to somewhat put my claims in perspective: It's still a really good-looking moody map and as far as I can tell this is pretty much the only flaw it has. But it's a big one. In my opinion.

[Forge]

I actually prefer wide open, non-linear maps like clear the coast. Maybe it's just my game playing style that's a factor. I take my sweet time when I play and check out almost every nook and cranny before I move on to the next part, thus I have a tendency to find almost everything. I'm not in a hurry nor am I trying to set some speed run record, I just like to see everything and enjoy the maps I play.
#2 was partially true in regards the first release, but I totally ripped apart the map the second go around. I actually told Puritan that the map had too much health and it really didn't need the freezer weapon nor the devastator(which did get removed).
To me the shotgun is no more hidden than the chaingun. They're both in obvious wall compartments. Weapon placement is proper by my perspective. The chaingun is acquired which handles the newbeasts effectively, the freezer can be found next (but to me this one is hidden), then the shotgun is acquired right before encounters with enforcers and troopers. Individually or in tandem the shotgun and chaingun can easily handle the commanders encountered in the wide open room (even an easier battle if you've found the freezer or shrinker). The RPG is laying on the floor of a shipping container in plain sight where it's acquired right before the encounter with the mini-battlelord, and there's really nothing prior to that which can't be dealt with using the chaingun and the shotgun.
So to reinforce what you said, it's all about an individuals gameplay style.

[moggimus]

I don't think most of us are trying to speed through the map, but I for one want to keep progressing rather than having to run around for half an hour looking for things in areas I've already been, whether they're "hidden" or not doesn't mean that they're apparent.

[Sang]

Hmm just gave the map another go, managed to find the shotgun this time around and complete it though! I do think the shotgun cabinet needs a better indication, add that Armory sign above it or something like you did with the chaingun.

Got a bit annoyed by having to wait for those doors to open every alternate step and at times I tried avoiding a newbeast standing near one of those doors by stepping backwards, but as the door closes as you get on the other side of it my path was blocked, turning me into Newbeast food. But those are just minor annoyances as a result of me not being very patient/careful, not really a design flaw.

Another very minor complaint is about how you introduced the first enemies. The map was moody and you managed to build up tension well enough, I was expecting that at one time, one of those noises would be accompanied by a Newbeast respawn that would make people startle. Instead what happened was that a few doors closed, I was on a platform unable to move, a couple load alarm sounds, then the doors opened up again revealing 2 newbeasts. Of course this introduction blowed subtility out the window, which contrasted a bit too strongly with the moody gameplay of the rest of the map (encounters with non-scary enemies notwithstanding).

The outtro was pretty neat, you succeeded at creating the feeling that shit was blowing up without putting too much pressure on the player but you were consistent in that you didn't suddenly let everything blow up, unlike, say, Zaxtor's Underground Fortress, which has a similar situation - You set something to self-destruct, there are a few earthquakes but apart from that no indication of anything that'll go wrong, there is no time given to the player, so then you'll just be playing along until suddenly everything blows up and you die instantly right before you saved. That didn't happen in this map = good!
Perhaps that "place will blow up in 10 minutes" notification was real but I doubt this, everytime you get to the last room it starts counting down from 30 seconds.

Design was a little bit lazy I guess with a lot of copy-pasting going on, but I think it fitted, in a way.

Overall I'd say it's a good map with just a few flaws (already mentioned them enough, I guess!) that might need some fixing if you're up to updating your map.. 3,5 out of 5 nuke symbols for me

[Forge]

Sorry, but if you don't see an RPG sitting on the floor out in the open or you walk right past an obvious wall compartment right next to the entrance/exit door while entering/leaving a room (i.e. you passed it twice), then you were in a hurry or you just don't look around.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by Forge

Sorry, but if you don't see an RPG sitting on the floor out in the open or you walk right past an obvious wall compartment right next to the entrance/exit door while entering/leaving a room (i.e. you passed it twice), then you were in a hurry or you just don't look around.

I'll hand you the RPG argument, beats me how I didn't find it the first time I played it. The shotgun location was le-------- blaaah I'm repeating myself and I suddenly stopped caring.

[Forge]

Originally Posted by Sang

I'll hand you the RPG argument, beats me how I didn't find it the first time I played it. The shotgun location was le-------- blaaah I'm repeating myself and I suddenly stopped caring.

You posted right before I did. My post was intended as a reply to moggimus.
I'll give you the "armory" sign above the shotgun though. That is a good idea.

[Usurper]

Are you open to suggestions on improving the map, or is as done as it's going to get?

[eddym4814]

I just finished it on the second try:

58 minutes
122/122 Kills
1/2 Secrets Found

I was left with 7 pistol rounds and 1 pipebomb. This is an very interesting map. There were times when I was ready to give up but I wanted to see how it ended and the ending was cool. I also realize why I missed the shotgun the first time. I was too busy checking out detail of the area it was in LOL. Nice job Puritan.

[Puritan]

Originally Posted by Usurper

Are you open to suggestions on improving the map, or is as done as it's going to get?

Map closed, sorry.
If it is a comfort; My next map will also take place in space.
I'm thinking of making a map for each movie in this serie; Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien Resurrection.
(three to go then..)

Originally Posted by eddym4814

I just finished it on the second try:

58 minutes
122/122 Kills
1/2 Secrets Found

I was left with 7 pistol rounds and 1 pipebomb. This is an very interesting map. There were times when I was ready to give up but I wanted to see how it ended and the ending was cool. I also realize why I missed the shotgun the first time. I was too busy checking out detail of the area it was in LOL. Nice job Puritan.

Thanks, man !

If you're good at looking around finding ammo/weapons you should be able to finish the map with plenty of ammo left. (I've seen three players done that so far including my 12 year old neighbour ).

[MusicallyInspired]

Originally Posted by Puritan

Map closed, sorry.
If it is a comfort; My next map will also take place in space.
I'm thinking of making a map for each movie in this serie; Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien Resurrection.
(three to go then..)

Nice. But what about the AVPs? Or at least the first one (second one sucks and has no interesting areas anyway). The abandoned whaling station above ground, the ice caves, or the different areas of the temple would be cool.

[Puritan]

^You are thinking about this?

I think LAW's episode is very good and it would be a waste of time "copying" AvP for Duke 3D.

I'm not getting any inspiration from watching AvP movie.

[The Commander]

Originally Posted by Puritan

^You are thinking about this?

I think you mean that?

[Puritan]

The level is now reviewed.
Not only once but two reviews available.

Avid Dukers should recognize one of the reviewers I presume

[Sang]

Why two reviews? wtf

[MusicallyInspired]

Originally Posted by Puritan

^You are thinking about this?

I think LAW's episode is very good and it would be a waste of time "copying" AvP for Duke 3D.

I meant the movie not that.

I'm not getting any inspiration from watching AvP movie.

You don't think the areas in the temple would be cool? Oh well. Looking forward to the other maps.