Shadow Warrior sequel?

Shadow Warrior didn't flop because it was a bad game, it flopped because of Quake. I remember when I first played Shadow Warrior after getting used to being able to look in every direction using a mouse in Quake, and the controls in Shadow Warrior were so frustrating I couldn't get into it. I think I played through half of the shareware game, and I enjoyed it - but without full mouse look I couldn't play. It flopped because of Quake, and I can't see any other good explination other than that one.

If a minigame were made for it with all the advanced technology available now, and that minigame became popular, wouldn't that mean that another Shadow Warrior game would be feasable as long as it was as advanced technologically as the other games on the shelves when it's released? That's my reasoning. I don't see how the Apogee/level
anology fits this at all.

I'd also like to point out that Duke Nukem 3D probably (I'm making an assumption here) sold a lot better thant Duke I and II, and I bet most of the people who enjoyed playing that game had never played the previous ones. Could it be posible that Shadow Warrior could be remade, much better than before, without building off of the old game and be marketable? If a new keen game were made, most of it's sales will have to come from new players, because not all the old ones will buy it and the ones who will won't make id or ionstorm or whoever makes it enough money. It will have to stand on it's own and not rely on games most of it's audience have never played. If a new Shadow Warrior were made (not a mini-game), it would have to be done the same way. It would have to stand on it's own. The only reason 3DR would want to try this, would be if they thought that enough of the old players would buy it to assure them of at least enough money to break even (or have only minimal loss). If they weren't comfortable relying on that, then a minigame, which could create a fanbase and thus incentive to create a new game.

To make a new Shadow Warrior, some of it would have to be reinvented. Not completely though - and anything is better than nothing.

It sounds like a lot of work just to appease a few fans, and indeed it is. But perhaps 3DR should consider the fact that while the first game didn't do as well as was hoped, a sequal, if done right, could make them more money than something completely new because of a pre-existing fanbase.

Blah, I repeated myself too much, but I think I got my point across, if in a few more words than need be.

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[Joe Siegler]

Also, 3DR can see if maybe Shadow Warrior would be more deserving of a sequel if the mini game became one of the most popular.

If the original game didn't do well enough to deserve a sequel on it's own - what makes you think a "mini game" inside something else will be justification for a sequel?

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[biXen]

moonbuzz: where did I blame him ? I said it used that engine, which was already outdated. And he is a brat, look at his homepage... I got sick of watching it... And even if it was a stupid decision, the game was good... and the engine not bad either... it's just some people will always be very graphics oriented... they never play enough to notice the gameplay... poor souls...

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"You want Payne ? I'll Give You Payne!"
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-biXen-

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net

I think the only way SW is ever going to have a chance of having a sequel will have to be for some gaming company to buy from 3D Realms the rights for Lo Wang and Shadow Warrior (much as Monolith bought the rights for Blood), and then create a SW2.

Perhaps SW fans could specially form such a gaming company just for this purpose? Okay, maybe there's a faint trace of hope after all...

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What? No more Wang?? Sigh...

You all say that SW2 will never be released.


But, I, the goski king, knows how to bring about a sequel. And it's all in one easy step.


All fans of SW should buy 1 million copies of the game each. Then the game will "sell a lot" and a sequel will then be made.


This simple formula can also be applied to ROTT.

See there is still hope

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The Goski King
"I like Pie"
"The sooner you learn life ain't fair, the easier it'll get" Draco


www.goskiarena.net-nobody is going to visit my site are they?

To Joe,

I know I'm stretching here but bear with me.

Well maybe the reason it did not sell well is because it was released in the shadow of Quake (taken from another person above.....forgot your name---sorry). Take this knowledge and use it to create an even better game with the new tech out. Maybe use the Max Payne engine (just for thoughts) or even the Duke4 engine. I think a new setting and oriental theme like Shadow Warrior delivered really blew a breath of fresh air into the all too played out "macho superhero in the future whipping out guns and blasting the hell out of everything".

Now before I get torn a new one, I understand that Shadow Warrior had the same type of gameplay but as I mentioned earlier, the whole ambience and oriental theme is what caught my attention and really kept me into the game. Especially the wind chimes in the Japanese village, the swaying trees, the wind blowing.....I could ramble on and on and on. All I'm saying is to maybe take a vote on how many people think there should be an SW2 game with a totally "blow my face off and hang it up to dry" engine under the hood. Same humor, same Lo Wang, same oriental atmosphere.....just update it.

Put it this way: If you have a good story with a bad cover, you dont throw away the story. Look back on what went wrong. Marketing? Dated engine? Your blunt replies to all the fans out there deliver the message that you intend to give, but just take time to sit back and think about what all the Wangers out here are saying. Thats all I ask. (We want more Wang!!.....but not that type)

Thanks
-G


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Grendel, I'm of one mind with you on the above. Though I'm still not very optimistic...

Perhaps 3D Realms can use the Prey engine?

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What? No more Wang?? Sigh...

[Joe Siegler]

I hate to be blunt, but..

What part of "There will never be a Shadow Warrior sequel" is unclear?

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[biXen]

LOL Nicely put Joe... not rude at all...

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-biXen-

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net

[Carger2000]

Hmm yeah it became clear a long time ago
for me that even if you hold a Riotgun towards 3drealms head they wont release it..
(As a manner of speaking)
Or for that matter, buy Joe a $500.000
new car...

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C2000, The Map Masters
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[This message has been edited by Carger2000 (edited 01-11-2001).]

Well Joe, I believe the "never" part is pretty unclear to me. Never is a pretty long time for there not to be any more Wang. Are you sure you mean "never"?? What about a cameo appearance in Duke4?? Maybe you guys should make a "3d Realms Arena" with Lo Wang as one of the characters. <<pinky finger on corner of lips ala Dr. Evil>>


Dripping with sarcasm and smart-assed remarks,

Grendel


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[Joe Siegler]

Using Lo Wang as a cameo is a completely different thing as a sequel to the game, which is what I'm talking about. Christ - this is why we don't say things most of the time, people just twist our words around.

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[biXen]

Joe3DR: You have been in this business too long. You seem to take everything personally. Remember the average age on this forum is probably 14...

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"You want Payne ? I'll Give You Payne!"
"Opinions are like *******s. Everyone's got em and they all stink! (except mine)"

-biXen-

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net

[Joe Siegler]

You're damn right I take it seriously - it's my job. To you guys it's just games, but for me, it's a job.

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[biXen]

Joe3DR: seriously is okay. But personally is another thing. Well, we talk a lot of crap, but most of it is just joking... I understand about warez, insulting and so on though...

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"You want Payne ? I'll Give You Payne!"
"Opinions are like *******s. Everyone's got em and they all stink! (except mine)"

-biXen-

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net

[UPchuck]

Joe does say there wont be a SW II, but will this saying still be valid between now and 10yrs from now? It could happen someday, just someday. If DNF/Max Payne have super sales and Prey either come's out real fast and profits as well as DNF/MP, or gets canned, a SW II might happen (What else would they do? Make a DN5? A Keen 3d? Wacky Wheels 2? Or the possibility of a whole new line of games with a new character. It's either sequels, new series, or a dead company)

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[Flaose]

If they do decide to continue Prey, they'll probably make a series out of it (wasn't that the original plan?)...that's a big if though.

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The User Apologizes in Advance for Consumed/Wasted Bandwidth

Personally I think Joe might be a little overworked.....just a hunch by all the crankiness emitting from his replies. I mean, he HAS to have some sense of humor right??? It's probably just on hold now due to stress related factors in Duke 4 and other projects. I'm sure he will shoot me down again because I even posted....but oh well. Lighten up pal, the world enjoys personable people who like to joke around and have fun. Maybe a valium or 2 will do you well. Do you have children? And if so, did you shatter their dreams of Santa Claus when they were wishing they would hear his footsteps on the roof? Try to be more understanding to the average consumer who is trying to keep a dream alive in his heart.

In good jest,
Grendel

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Joe, one question: WHY will there never be
a Shadow Warrior Sequel?

Shadow Warrior is a great game with a great character, why will 3D Realms make only
Duke games? Shadow Warrior has an other gameplay and I think Prey will have an different gameplay, too. Is 3D Realms going to do the same with Duke like Core with Lara?

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[biXen]

Superslide: Limited Resources ? Priorities ? Success vs. Failure (not quite) ? The answers are many, the point is, they probably didn't even like it themselves

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"Opinions are like *******s. Everyone's got em and they all stink! (except mine)"

-biXen-

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net

[Joe Siegler]

No it wouldn't. That has no bearing on not doing a Shadow Warrior sequel. The reason I'm not answering is that I've answered it a zillion times already.

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It's actually very simple, Shadow warrior wasn't a great seller to say the least, so the game doesn't get a sequel.
Duke3d sold in barrels, duke gets a sequel.

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"It wasn't supposed to turn out like this.." (Sebastian "Doyle" Krist)
ROTT2: Return Of The Triad

Our wines leave you nothing to hope for (misunderstandabilationist)

I don´t think that a firm kill one of its heros only because one of thats games sells
not well. Look at Nintendo or Sega.
Thats tradition.

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Originally posted by Superslide:
Joe, one question: WHY will there never be
a Shadow Warrior Sequel?
<snip>

I don't want to speak for Joe but I think I know why there will NOT (unfortunately) be another SW. At the time it was slurred with the 'racist' banner. It would be political (and commercial) suicide for 3DR to go through that again.

Tony

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- Tony

[DukesFriend]

Yes, it's a pity that there will be no sequel. I liked this chinese ambience, the enemies, the weapons etc. But maybe Lo Wang was too old, so the kiddies couldn't identify. Maybe that was the problem, that SW didn't sell. Who wants to be an old man?

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[biXen]

Hitman is a clone. Who want's to be a clone ? He still sells...

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"You want Payne ? I'll Give You Payne!"
"Opinions are like *******s. Everyone's got em and they all stink! (except mine)"

-biXen-

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net

Originally posted by Superslide:
I don´t think that a firm kill one of its heros only because one of thats games sells
not well. Look at Nintendo or Sega.
Thats tradition.

No, that's twisting reality. In other words, WHAT HERO?
You're gonna compare SW, who appeared at one game, and didn't sell much to Mario or Sonic? When Nintendo release a Mario game and it doesn't sell, they keep making Mario games. That's not tradition, that's marketing, that's what 3dR does with Duke.


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"It wasn't supposed to turn out like this.." (Sebastian "Doyle" Krist)
ROTT2: Return Of The Triad

Our wines leave you nothing to hope for (misunderstandabilationist)

Its´s not a small firm, it´s 3D Realms
the best fps Company OK

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[Flaose]

Big or small, it's all about the money. Fifteen years ago it was totally about the love of Computer Games, now it's about the love of Games and money. Idealism doesn't buy dinner...

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The User Apologizes in Advance for Consumed/Wasted Bandwidth

Idealism doesn't buy dinner...

If this is an accurate description of our current state, it's very, very sad indeed...

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What? No more Wang?? Sigh...

[ROTT: 2]

You forgot that there will also be a Wolfenstein Sequel.

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http://mainiak.8m.com/main.html

Fifteen years ago it was totally about the love of Computer Games, now it's about the love of Games and money

Common misconseption. 15 years ago you could make 20 games in the time it takes you to make one today, so the companies could allow themselves to take more risks and to have more failures. with a 1.5-2.5 years for a game production and the cost of today, those risks are not taken easily today. Game developers today are usually focus on one game, and thus they want to make it a success so they try to walk the safe line. Ppl are talking about the industry ruled by gigantic publishers, but they don't realise that only those publishers can support innovative games being made, by covering their losses with their Tomb Raiders.

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"It wasn't supposed to turn out like this.." (Sebastian "Doyle" Krist)
ROTT2: Return Of The Triad

Our wines leave you nothing to hope for (misunderstandabilationist)

[AncientCoder]

[quote]Originally posted by moonbuzz:

Common misconseption. 15 years ago you could make 20 games in the time it takes you to make one today

I wonder how long it will be before some bright spark in his back bedroom
produces another Tetris?

Do you think that these days are gone? If it means you have to have mega
budgets to produce mega games then I think it's a sad state of affairs.

I thought that the hand held consoles would allow some invovation because
most of the platforms are technically limited. It would allow a more
rapid production time and give developers who have less financial resources a
chance.

However Nintendo will not even let you develop for the Gameboy without some
track record and proof of financial security.

Now I am off to my shed to figure out how to get these bits of wood
into a game




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There are so many possibilities to make a sequel for Shadow Warrior or Rise of the Triad. To hire programmers, or the console programmers like that from Eurocom ore from
N-Space could programm the sequel.

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[Joe Siegler]

There's no way we'd turn over a property and not retain creative control. The time spent working on controlling the title would take away from our main focus, hence we don't want to spend the time doing it.

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Have you controlled Zero Hour, Land of the Babes and Time to Kill ?

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[Joe Siegler]

We have final say on those, but that's different than the kind of control I'm talking about.

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Hail to the Wang! Baby!

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