Nit picking the Duke!

[Parkar]

Considering how the monster models almost drowned anything else in the modelling thread I thought I would keep the Duke model in it's own thread for the sake of making it a bit more tidy.

Started on him last night and have spent about 10h or so on him so far. Pretty happy with the torso which is in my opinion the best male torso I have ever modelled (was a very long time since I modelled a male torso though). Legs still is in very early stages.

Lets hear all the error I have made on the model. Even though it's very early I want comments and crits from the start so I don't have him uv mapped and skinning him when someone finds a huge error in the model. Just point out anything that's wrong or could be better, heck even point out that the head looks wrong just to be safe everything is covered.

Also have two questions for you.

1. Should he have his jeans over the boots or in them?

2. Should he have the little pockets and ammo on the straps or should they be clean like the original sprite?

Things I noticed while doing these renders.

1. The straps is not modelled in a good way, gona remodel them. The problem was caused by me trying to save polygons but since it is only 1500 so far that should be no problem.

2. The straps should be further apart.

3. lower arm is a bit low poly and should have an extra segment. (Fixed this before posting this)

4. I think he should be a bit more beefy still on both arms and legs. Any other opinion on this?

And here is the renders, added the main references I use so you won't have to dig them out. If you have any specific crits please draw on the picture to show what you mean.

[Micki!]

I really like your work Parkar... It looks really nice for a few hours work...

I'd like to point out that the heads shape (you knew this would come ) is wrong... It's TOO spiky on that pic... Duke's head is blocky because of his hair... His ammo belt is placed a bit wrong, they have to stand more from each other... his arms and legs are a little bit too short... I can't imagine him scratching his right shoulder with his laft hand at least...

His head has to be move more bakwards... It's too long at the front...

I assume you're already working on some of the stuff i mentioned, but i'm just pointing out...

Great work again...

[Parkar]

You realy think his arms and legs should be longer? I am modelling the model around the skeleton which by default has regular human proportions. I mad the chest bigger and shorter on it and made the legs a bit longer so that comment was sort of unexpected. Maybe he does not need to be more beefy after all then.

When you mention the head I assume you are joking but in case you ain't that is just the skeleton and the same is true for the feet to.

Ammo belt has been remodelled since I posted the pic and is now further apart just as you suggested.

[Soul Collector]

Nice work so far.

2. Should he have the little pockets and ammo on the straps or should they be clean like the original sprite?

This is the important's thing to me on the model.

PLEASE add them!!!

[Micki!]

Parkar said:
You realy think his arms and legs should be longer? I am modelling the model around the skeleton which by default has regular human proportions. I mad the chest bigger and shorter on it and made the legs a bit longer so that comment was sort of unexpected. Maybe he does not need to be more beefy after all then.

I just took a look at your pictures again, and i found out, that his arm are okay i lengh... However, the reason ofhis arm looking shorter, is his shoulders... they are a little too wide... they should be pushed more inwards (<--does that word exist..?)
His laegs are okay too... I guess it just look a bit ackward seeing him without boots...

When you mention the head I assume you are joking but in case you ain't that is just the skeleton and the same is true for the feet to.

What were you refering to, the heads's spiky-ness, or the 'hanging too much' thing..?!

[Parkar]

Spikiness mainly. The position of the head crit stands even though that is just the skeleton. It looks better now that I moved back the neck bone and turned his head up slightly.

Edit, moving the shoulders inward some looks much better and the bone was actualy more inward so when I tried to rig him it looked realy bad.

[Dr. Kill]

Parkar said:
1. Should he have his jeans over the boots or in them?

Jeans tucked in, like the Duke 3D cover.

2. Should he have the little pockets and ammo on the straps or should they be clean like the original sprite?

Do the detail, please.

btw, all of the blocky-ness of your model (I know, it's not done yet) reminds me of the original Virtua Fighter.

[Parkar]

This is were I stop today.

[Parkar]

And quickly smoothed.

[Ding Bat]

Damn..that looks great to me. Except for the blue head, haha.

The ammo belt looks good also,keeper. I've seen ammo belts like that, the belt is acually part of the straps not to hold up his pant.

The second picture above with his pants outside the boots just looks cool to me. Makes him look more of a kick ass guy than a pansy waist.

[Geoffrey]

Great! I'm superhappy to see you working on the duke model.. I can't wait to see how hitile dm is going to look ( if it's not too laggy.. better make it a map with only three textures )

>> 1. Should he have his jeans over the boots or in them?

I vote for in

[Boinky]

In D3d they are in.. So leave em in.. We are sticking to the original spritework for the most part, and from what the pictures show he wears his pants like they are fatigues.

[Parkar]

On the two questions.

1. Keeping the ammo belt stuff, just looks to cool and it now looks like Duke even without his head.

2. I have been leaning more and more towards having the pants over his boots. On the cover art he is not wearing jeans and so it looks ok to have them in the boots. The sprites boots just looks awful. Every single other picture of him he has them over the boots. Stuffing your jeans inside army boots just seems a bit weird, sure if it was army pants it would give him a cool army look but not with light blue jeans. The mighty foot frames have the jeans over the boot as well and which ever I choose will be used both on the player model and the fps view.

[WarHammer]

Parkar said:
The mighty foot frames have the jeans over the boot as well

That's because much of the graphics, including the firstperson hands and feet were made from scanned photographs. My guess is when they went to photograph the frames for the mighty foot they probably realized it's damn hard to tuck denim jeans into such big-ass boots.

However, in the game, on the box, the action figure, in Time to Kill, Land of the Babes, Zero Hour and Manhattan Project Duke has his pants tucked into his boots. He even had them tucked in at his appearance at the 2001 E3.

I say tuck.

[Parkar]

WarHammer said:

That's because much of the graphics, including the firstperson hands and feet were made from scanned photographs. My guess is when they went to photograph the frames for the mighty foot they probably realized it's damn hard to tuck denim jeans into such big-ass boots.

However, in the game, on the box, the action figure, in Time to Kill, Land of the Babes, Zero Hour and Manhattan Project Duke has his pants tucked into his boots. He even had them tucked in at his appearance at the 2001 E3.

I say tuck.

Exactly why it looks weird, you don't tuck your jeans into your boots. On the picture you posted he is not wearing jeans.

I'll just make to version so we can see what it looks like even though once you skin it like jeans it will look bad. I think I am going to play some Manhattan project and see how they modelled it.

[Dave-ros]

I just looked at Manhattan Project, and he's wearing jeans that are tucked into his boots - so tuck away, you tucking tucker!!!

Unless you want to make two versions... no, forget that idea! Maybe they're tucked in normally, but when he kicks with either leg, the cuffs pop out of his boots when he bends his legs (and then the techno-boots automatically pull them back in again when he lowers his legs again)?

[WarHammer]

They gave him those stylish strapped boots.

[Parkar]

Yea they gave him biker boots it looks like. Anyway tried the tucked in variant and it looks better then I thought it would.

[Soul Collector]

wow, thats cool.

hey, i noticed, you gave him single fingers on his hand.

i think that would be cool on the stripper model too.
It adds a great detail to the model.

EDIT:

Whats the Polycount so far?

[Parkar]

Poly count right now is 2240 after adding some more detail then what is shown in the renders. I am aiming at somewhere around 3000.

Maybe I'll go back and improve the stripper once I feel like doing the others as well. Could add a bit more polygons now that it uses md3.

[drvarek]

as far as i see, the model is almost done (except head and few minor details)

[Mr.Fibbles]

Am i the only one to notice a bulge, little as it is, coming from his crouch?

funny

it all looks great, the head is gonna have alot of polys, and ive always had trouble making heads proportional to bodys so good luck, but you are the best.

[Micki!]

Parkar said:
Yea they gave him biker boots it looks like. Anyway tried the tucked in variant and it looks better then I thought it would.

WOW..! That last pic of Duke REALLY looks great...
I can't wait to see the final version... It's surely going to look great... That is, if you get the head right...

[drvarek]

parkar, tell me what weapon are you planning to attach to his hand? i think that shotgun or chaingun are the best for this... or you're planning to make a special weapon for this model?

[Parkar]

He will be holding a gun similar to the one the sprite holds (in the HRP version ).

(Notice: The head in the picture is not part of the model!)

[Geoffrey]

I totally love what you have so far! The proportions are a bit on the cartoony side which gives it a real Duke look, it's great!

[Soul Collector]

Parkar said:
He will be holding a gun similar to the one the sprite holds (in the HRP version ).

(Notice: The head in the picture is not part of the model!)

ROFL That looks funny

[Duke] Damn those alien bastards gonna pay for breaking my neck [/Duke]

[Dave-ros]

Damn, he's lookin' gooood! But it's weird how red his skin is in the original artwork... it'll be interesting to see how he looks with his skin on!

[Micki!]

Dave-ros said:
Damn, he's lookin' gooood! But it's weird how red his skin is in the original artwork... it'll be interesting to see how he looks with his skin on!

Don't you know that yet..?! We're not going to make his shirt... In fact, we're planning to remove his jeans too...

[Dave-ros]

Micki! said:
Don't you know that yet..?! We're not going to make his shirt... In fact, we're planning to remove his jeans too...

That is quite possibly the scariest thing I've ever read in these forums

I hope for the sake of decency he's at least going to keep his ammo belt on?!?

Or is this the weapon Parkar's been talking about?

[Boinky]

hhe, I think he was referring to Dukes ultra tanned pace on face. You know like the nude celebrity photo's Are you gonna make duke pasty white or a bit tan?

[EDIT] I love the way they make duke look like he's some sorta sissy man in the photo. He has blonde highlights!

[drvarek]

Parkar said:
He will be holding a gun similar to the one the sprite holds (in the HRP version ).

isn't that gun a chaingun from lameduke?
if it is, than it could be replaced with normal chaingun, so the model should be "up to date" with duke3D

also, i whould personally prefer that you use duke from manhattan project as your reference....

[Odin]

Dave-ros said:

Haha, I started something!

drvarek said:
also, i whould personally prefer that you use duke from manhattan project as your reference....

Why? This is Duke 3D, not DNMP. They're both at least a bit different, from what I can tell.

Anyways, I love the model, it looks excellent! I can't wait for this to come out.

[Roma Loom]

I've already suggested using animated flames in jetpack in this model - would kick ass...

[Kev_Hectic]

Parkar said:
Yea they gave him biker boots it looks like. Anyway tried the tucked in variant and it looks better then I thought it would.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...40441-wip3.jpg

That's looking really good so far. This is definitely the best attempt yet at a Duke model for the HRP.

Are you going to keep the metal armbands that you can see Duke wearing in the original sprites and renders for Duke 3D, or are you going to be removing those?

[GodBlitZor]

Do it like the figure, then we can do all the figure variants for the game.

[Mblackwell]

His head (the top of it) is beveled in on your model parkar, but his head should really be more boxy. It looks strange as it is.

[Roma Loom]

It's the head of standard 3ds max sceleton - it's not the part of the model
You cannot see the other parts of the sceleton because they are either disabled or simply covered by existing mesh...

[Dr. Kill]

Roma Loom said:
I've already suggested using animated flames in jetpack in this model - would kick ass...

once I made a mod for duke. I made it so when he used his jetpack, he spawned flames, or an explosion (can't remember). The cool thing was that when I moved the frames in the art file to the side, he spawned two sets of them. It looked great.

[Mblackwell]

Roma Loom said:
It's the head of standard 3ds max sceleton - it's not the part of the model
You cannot see the other parts of the sceleton because they are either disabled or simply covered by existing mesh...

Well thank god for that.