Crystal Caves versions

[Malvineous]

Hi all,

Does anyone (Litude?) know how many different versions of Crystal Caves are floating around? Since the levels are stored in the .exe file, they will begin at different offsets in each version so I would like to find out the offsets for as many versions as I can.

[Frenkel]

I only know about version 1.0 and version 1.0a, but in both versions the levels should be stored at the same offset in the .exe file, because version 1.0a is only different from version 1.0 in some bytes so that it doesn't set the clock back 100 years in Windows XP.

[Malvineous]

Oh ok, the message at the end of the shareware release says registering will get you the latest version of episode 1 so I wasn't sure if there ever was a latest version - sounds like there wasn't.

[Xgthug]

The Apogee FAQ includes a list of every version released for every title.
http://www.3drealms.com/faq/apfaq72.txt
It appears that 1.0 is the only version for Crystal Caves.

Would be interesting to see some kind of beta floating around.

[Frenkel]

Version 1.0a of Crystal Caves is released after the last update of the Apogee FAQ in 2005. See the Detailed Release Timeline.

About a Crystal Caves beta: I think you'll have to do with this:

[Litude]

Yeah as has already been said there are most likely only two versions of Crystal Caves, 1.0 and 1.0a. Secret Agent on the other hand, has at least three versions.

[Frenkel]

I only know about two Secret Agent versions: 1.0 and 1.0a. What's the third one?

[Litude]

All three versions identify themselves as version 1.0 on the title screen (and the first update didn't even get a new version number AFAIK), but the first update to the game was released February 17, 1992 (source, check second last paragraph). As it didn't get a new version number, it's no surprise it's been a bit forgotten.

You can get the initially released version 1.0 from e.g. here, and the updated version 1.0 from e.g here (The version distributed here before the 1.0a update was released was naturally the fixed version, as are all official Apogee distributions using a DeICE or Crane installer).

[Litude]

Hmm... It seems I was mistaken. There are actually three versions of Crystal Caves. In addition to 1.0a there are actually two more builds, both identifying themselves as version 1.0. Interestingly, the later 1.0 build just mysteriously disappeared from shareware distribution in 1993 and the original build took its place. Still, the 1.0a "hack" is based on the later build.

You can recognize the later build from having a carrying date of 11/11/91 (instead of 10/23/91) like here. The build and its installer can be downloaded from here. Corresponding registered versions also exist with the initial release having a modify date of 10/25/91 and the updated 11/11/91.

This thing with updated versions not getting a new version number seems to have happened quite a lot in old Apogee titles. At least Crystal Caves, Secret Agent, Word Rescue, Monster Bash, Math Rescue, The Monuments of Mars, The Thor Trilogy, Trek Trivia, Pharaoh's Tomb, Supernova, Jumpman Lives and Wolfenstein 3D, all received updates that did not have a new version number.

[Joe Siegler]

Those were not updates. There was only 1.0 and 1.0a. That was the only update. Time changes do not always indicate a new version. I was in charge of these things for 16 years at Apogee/3DR.

Changing the installer also does not mean a new version of the software. You're looking too hard for info that is not there.

[Litude]

I've actually compared the EXEs and they differ (and it's not just a change in the EXE compressor, I'm talking actual code changes). Can't find any other explanation than a new version which never received a new version number. Besides all of these games except for Monster Bash (Monster Bash v1.01 doesn't actually identify itself as v1.01 anywhere, just the modify date of 1:01 PM lead me to the conclusion that it was v1.01) were released before you started working at Apogee, right?

I've found references to the fact that Secret Agent and Word Rescue were indeed patched shortly after release here and here. It's not very surprising that such references no longer exist for the majority of games, but it proves that Apogee acknowledged that some of the games were patched yet didn't get a new version.

[Joe Siegler]

I started at Apogee on Dec 14, 1992. Everything released between then and May 22, 2009 is something I did personally.

When I talked with Frank Maddin about Crystal Caves when I put together the 1.0a patch, he told me it had never been updated since the original release.

[Litude]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

When I talked with Frank Maddin about Crystal Caves when I put together the 1.0a patch, he told me it had never been updated since the original release.

Well, if you find the time to try out the two different 1.0 EXEs, the most easily noticed difference is in the video support section. The text uses slightly different formatting in the different builds.

This is what the second paragraph looks like in 1.0 (10/23/91), which is the build distributed here as shareware until 1.0a was released.

 This is the fault of the video
 board makers not producing 100%
   compatible graphics cards.

Then this is what it looks like in 1.0 (11/11/91) and 1.0a. (1.0a was based on the updated build.)

 This is the fault of the video
 board makers not producing 100%
  compatible graphics cards.

Sure, it's not much of a difference but it's proof enough that the builds do differ.