Hooper V.S. Scully

[GoodStuff]

Many things made Duke Nukem 3D awesome and one thing I must mention is the RAGE and awesomeness of deathmatch and single player action.

This RAGE must be in DUKE NUKEM FOREVER. It is caused by playing deathmatch and it causes the finest gameplay ever experiened.

Duke Nukem Forever must cause this type of gameplay action during deathmatch. Allow me to explain a bit futher..... and tell me if you agree!

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Allow me to apoligize in advance but I have to get this off my chest. Sorry for sloppy spelling, im tired.

This is a true story about 2 elite game players.

It is best to read this story with this music playing in the background softly...http://www.us.fsu.edu/swf/AYB2.swf

I know both of these guys, neighbors actually.

University students. Atlantic Canada. True Story.

Back in the day, we used to play Duke Nukem 3D (Hooper, Scully, myself and our bro's... as well as a guy we will call L.C.). We were (are) damn good players, playing all the time since the days of Atari and still going strong. True game enthousists, we played many games and many systems, espicially SNES, 64, and PC games. Duke3d co-op was awesome and so was deathmatch. Quake and Doom was good.

Just the other night we were playing Classic Doom... 3 players. When I say 3 player I mean one guy one keyboard+mouse, and the other 2 on gamepads, Playing A One Player Game (E1M3), and getting thru... . The good tunes pumped us up and the confusion was wild I tell you...

Anyways, we discovered duke3d demo and got hooked and started playing over dial-up modem... something like a 28800 or 28000 baud rate... it did the job. We ere good players too. We we all experts at the game in our own right after we played the full version countless times...


At first we used gamepads, but we soon discovered the keyboard and mouse combo worked well.

Oh my God the deathmatches were top notch. We were real pro's, playing single player at highest difficulty, just to get somewhat ready for deathmatch games.

Anyway, this guy, Hooper, could very well have been the best at duke3d in the world. For a while before it closed down, nobody could beat him on HEAT.NET deathmatch. I mean, he openly challenged people to take him 8 on 1 and he still kicked ass. Totally smashed them. I mean this guy is one true gamer. Take my word for it he did not cheat. This is how good he was and this is the legend of HOOPER VS SCULLY!

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hooper was good. Too good. His hands are in shit state from kicking too much gaming ass. He mastered duke3d. Capable of running backwards thru any level, he memorized every single one. So if the odds were not in his favor, he would simply run backwards while firing the whole damn way, every single shot hitting you.

Now mind you, we were so good that if anyone fired any missle type weapon like rpg or devestator we could simply sidestep it. It was like the only chance you had was to use pistol or shotgun. Believe me, these were the two best weapons. Masters who have fought other masters will agree with me for the most part.

You have to understand how good Hooper was. Here he was on friggen dialup, using an overclocked PS1 or PS2 computer or whatever the hell it was (equivilant to a pentium 90 or something), on dial up, sitting in his basement just slaughtering everyone, espicially on heat.net. Considers the game was jerking like crazy for him, lagging up things, the screen and weapons frame movement messing everything up for him... and he still kicked ass! All at an incrediblely low frame rate and lowest graffics! A tremdous dissadvantage!

Good god, if you got caught in hollywood holocaust in the street you were dead. Circle strafing was key in kicking ass, and you f*cking RAN if you were even slightly hurt if you even seen Hooper. If you fought him, damn good as we were, you would expect be be near dead if you killed him, if your lucky.

Scully dared to take him.

With fast reflexes and the rage of the ages, he could actually land shots on hooper and actually delay hooper from outright blasting you in a heartbeat.

He was good too. The only guy that had a chance against Hooper.

A Scully V.S. Hooper was a big event. BIG. We would go to someone house to watch the deathmatch.

Just playing against either Hoop or Scull made you freeze up. Everyone froze up. I can't explain the feeling. Its like running around a pitch black room, and you can hear someone swinging a large knife blindly. Or the feeling of a very large hairy spider on your back... you dare not move, but your hopping barefoot over a roomfull of angry scorpions. You knew you were toast.

We would simple freeze up. The urge to disconnect was unbearable. You would actually quiver in your seat, so nervous you truly were only at 50% it seemed. During the deathmatch, it seemed you turned retarded or something. We just lost it. Even the most basic manouvers like sidestepping or jumping seemed to demand superhuman mind powers. You felt sick, if you got fragged, you felt like you just died. Sometimes (ESPICIALLY during H v.s S) the macro's were hit hard!
YOU SUCK! YOU SUCK! DAMN IM GOOD! again and again AGHHHHH!! the rage it built! Smashing the F-keys hard time and again, Duke saying the macros my GOD the rage it made! I wish Duke nukem forever had that rage!!

The sudden jolt we got when we played deathmatch and just SEEN the other guy made us lose it. It was like getting a constand electrical shock, you lost the ability to, well, THINK! Driven by panic you could almost feel the bullets whizzing by you as you shuttered, barely making it around the corner, thru the door, or whatever.
It was enough to make you want to just run from your chair, clocking olympic times. The adrenline was just pumping through you, making everymovement out of whack. Playing the Faces of Death level with this level of excitment and panic was almost too much to handle, we almost DREADED to play self control almost lost whoa!! come on!!! shoot shoot "RUN!" The rage of losing was the real kicker! We fought like madmen. Every hit counted. Duke Nukem Deathmatch!!

The fury that built up between Scully and Hooper deathmatch was unbelievable! We almost frothed at the mouths yelling "DONT LET HIM WIN!" "WHOA!" "GOOD ONE" "F*CK!! F*CK F*CK!!!!"

http://www.studentfreestuff.com/cele.../56KModem.mpeg

I'm not kidding.

Straffing back and forth while using jetpacks, jumping from one ledge to another while doing a 180, Hooper fires in midair jump killing his opponent, with one RPG hit.

Intense rage comsumses you if you ever got stomped on after getting hit with the shrinker.

The battles were fantastic, and nerve wrecking. There were some close deathmatches, kill for kill, one one occasion up to something like 50.

Hooper VS Scully was the finest though. That got the blood moving, boy!!

The state of our computers added to the tension and rage of the action packed games we had. Remember, using dialup and crappy early pentiums added to the confusion and rage! So much action was happening that sometime wierd shit would happen, like you seen the shotgun in midfire, froze up for just a second, you hear BOOM! and the game kicks back into action, "KILLED HOOPER" appears on the screen. Cheers and yelling! Macros are hit hard. "YOU SUCK!" Hit rapidly over and over, the slow down the game more and seem to echo.

Rage increases.

Panic takes over again.

Hooper appears, full health... RUN!

Loss of control... getting hit... fight back!!
COME ON! COME ON! SHOOT HIM! IM TRYING FOR ***** SAKE IM TRYING!! SHOOT!!! DAMN IT OTHER WAY! GET THE AMMO SCULLY!! *****!!!!!!!!! GO!11!@!!@!11!!!


Killed by Hooper


"DAMN IT!!!!!"

"You Suck!" "You Suck!"

THE RAGE!!

Too good!!

3D Realms... For God Sake make Duke Nukem Forever this good!!

I actually asked Hooper and Scully for permission to talk about this and they said "Yeah!"

I just had to let the legend of Scully V.S. Hooper deathmatches to be known to the 3DR.

Thats my 2 cents boys.


http://img.gamershell.com/static/scr...1336_thumb.jpg

[ewolf]

I agree with you completely. Superior graphics IMO isn't as important as superior game play. It's the thrill that counts most.

Although it does need to have somewhat decent res.

I play deathmatch occasinally on dukesterx. While there are amazing players, they aren't like what you mentioned.

[pec]

It is best to read this story with this music playing in the background softly...http://www.us.fsu.edu/swf/AYB2.swf

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!

A classic.

Circle strafing was key in kicking ass

Indeed. Use circle strafing in singleplayer to finish monsters, use it in multiplayer to beat other players, etc.

But always remember... circle strafing is only effective when present "one way" only. This means when your target is also using circle strafing at the same time then you have to be careful. Two master circle strafers who fire at each other... believe me, this may take a while and is not easy at all.

Basically, in multiplayer it works like this:

1. Approach your target in circle strafing mode.

2. Check target's response:
If target's response is circle strafing and you are low on resources and health then break up fight immediately and change mode!
If target's response is different then continue cs mode. Use resources well.

or

3. Adjust your tactics: Force target to leave circle strafing mode first. Then finish target off with "one way" cs.

[Geo-King]

I totally understand where you’re coming from. When a game has very good quality death match and you have friends to play with, you play every day and you start getting good then that’s when things get VERY competitive.

All of a sudden someone comes along and schools you. HA! Sitting there in a cold sweat (dead) thinking to yourself WTF?! Most people think if someone is that good they must be cheating but I can tell you from personal experience there are some players out there that are inhumanly good. I could never find anyone to play Duke Nukem 3D (Grr) I use to get crazy lag on heat.net so I always was on Mplayer.com and I use to play a lot of Quake 1 on-line.

For Duke Nukem Forever to have that “RAGE” as you called it, the game is going to need two things. 1.)Good multi-player gameplay, 2.)A community that can socialize. I am sure GameSpy Arcade will support DNF but not everyone that buys DNF will also have GameSpy let alone even know about it.

When you what to play on-line and you click on a multi-player tab and all you see is a list of servers all you’re doing is playing with a bunch of strangers but when there is a main chat lobby where you can talk and make rooms you get to socially interact with people. For example

DNF Main Lobby
Player1: You suck!
Player2: No, You suck!
Player1: OK! Make a room then bitch!

(After the death-match they go back to the chat lobby for everyone to find out the results)

Player1: HA! Owned 30 to 6!
Player2: awww Oh well…
Player6: OMG! He ruined you! You won’t be able to shit right for a week! lol
Player1:lol
Player2:lol
Player43:lol

I made a topic about this once here and we all pretty much agreed that other apps that come with DNF would pose too much of a security risk. I have to say I really like Half-Life 2 MP. Shooting a chair 300MPH at someone’s head with the grav gun always gets the blood pumping. They are really dropping the ball with that steam service. It’s more of an annoyance then a tool to help you talk to your friends when your out of game but its better then nothing I guess.


(edit)
GameSpy bought Mplayer just so you know.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/98..._gaming_part2/

[MegaMustaine]

Just so everybody knows two people circle strafing each other is more dangerous than figure 8 racing!!!!!!

[GoodStuff]

I think it all depends on if DNF has the strictly fast moving action the likes of Duke3D.

Personally, I hope its arcade style action, to keeps things fast. I hope demo or deathmatch recording is an option.

[Razorback]

I don't remember D3D being a fast paced FPS once you cleard the hordes or whores! I remember palying pool.

[GoodStuff]

I contacted ~Hooper~ and he will discuss this thread in greater detail. It should prove to be interesting and maybe funny.

The action of multiplayer is something I hope will be added after single player is completed (DNF) The thing with multiplayer levels these days is that games tend to have seperate multiplayer levels, rather than using single player level maps. I can't explain why Duke3D maps worked well for multiplayer. I wonder if DNF levels will be designed for 4 player or 16 player action...??

[Geo-King]

GoodStuff said:
I contacted ~Hooper~ and he will discuss this thread in greater detail. It should prove to be interesting and maybe funny.

The action of multiplayer is something I hope will be added after single player is completed (DNF) The thing with multiplayer levels these days is that games tend to have seperate multiplayer levels, rather than using single player level maps. I can't explain why Duke3D maps worked well for multiplayer. I wonder if DNF levels will be designed for 4 player or 16 player action...??

HA. Your right! I said something very similar a little while ago but it was about Quake1.

07/13/04 04:59 PM
I have played Quake 1 multiplayer the most out of all other FPSs because it’s been out for a really long time (1996). Grr i could never find anyone to play DN3D with me grrr. Anyways during those years I realized that while playing in death match mode on single player maps that it is just as fun as playing on maps made for DMing. Anyone who has played the Q1 shareware levels on-line knows what I am talking about. I hope DNF has some innovative multiplayer level design. It would suck if it were just all about the same old who can time the level faster and who gets the weapons first. Also who here likes the game play of rocket arena?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/sh...true#Post591904

Quake1 made small changes to a singal player map when played on-line but it was like the same thing.

Yeah, one of the major problems with HL2M though, which many other present day death matches: is far too easy, and too often 1-kill-shots.

In Duke, and also in Doom before it, 1 kill shots were rare. It usually took you multiple shots, and often more than that to take down your opponent. Which makes it a skill dominated DM. It means that you can still beat a lesser opponent even on low health and bad ammo. Once done, you have to get health. 1 shot one kill removes the action and scare factor. If you still get to run, and run like hell with you're oppenent behind you, and there are a few multiple directions in a level with enough twists and turns toward a health pack to get health, the action goes up. It isn't just shoot until one of either oppnent is dead. If you know only a few shots can kill you, running is useless because you'll never get to a place to pump up your health.

Duke DM needs much longer staying alive to get that frantic action pace back. Out with the quick kills - may be more realistic, but it doesn't do the game play good.

[GoodStuff]

Well said.

[Rider]

I can't remember if it was possible to survive an RPG blast at full health... I think it was!

[Mr.Sociopath]

I personnaly prefer the possibility to have head shots and the likes..I prefer realism to..well..other..(said nicely :P)

because most of the game out there are part of the other, not realistic one


though, I don't think that Duke should necessarily be realistic...but still , i'd prefer that, it gives more excuses to use better physic, better interactivity

I've played many games where at close blank point you could shoot an ennemi with a shotgun, and he wouldn,t die..wouldn't even react realisticaly..
this really sucks in my opinion..
there should be more realistic damage, handicaps, and of course de possibility to shoot the brain out of your (unarmored) opponent..
isn't head shot and extension of what you call skills? what about shooting in both arms to handicap the ennemy, then shoot in the legs to laugh at him while he can't move, then shoot him in the nuts to laugh louder, and then finish the job with a clean head shot..
that's pure gameplay in my opinion

Rider said:
I can't remember if it was possible to survive an RPG blast at full health... I think it was!

A direct hit, no, but a nearby blast, yes. Since you could avoid the rocket, that helped bunches.

Mr.Sociopath said:
I personnaly prefer the possibility to have head shots and the likes..I prefer realism to..well..other..(said nicely :P)

because most of the game out there are part of the other, not realistic one


though, I don't think that Duke should necessarily be realistic...but still , i'd prefer that, it gives more excuses to use better physic, better interactivity

I've played many games where at close blank point you could shoot an ennemi with a shotgun, and he wouldn,t die..wouldn't even react realisticaly..

Ah, but there is such a thing as advanced armor.

this really sucks in my opinion..
there should be more realistic damage, handicaps, and of course de possibility to shoot the brain out of your (unarmored) opponent..
isn't head shot and extension of what you call skills? what about shooting in both arms to handicap the ennemy, then shoot in the legs to laugh at him while he can't move, then shoot him in the nuts to laugh louder, and then finish the job with a clean head shot..
that's pure gameplay in my opinion

In single player, sure, in death match, the arms and legs thing, only if the player can patch himself up. A sniping headshot could work, but only if there are very little sniping positions. Good death matches are fun if it's actually a match, not a luck of the draw, or getting to that one defenisible position and then surviving a long time. Deathmatches need to be frantic, you need to have the time and say, "Oh *****, I won't survive this unless I leave now and get heatlh," and have a chance at making it there. One shot, one kill, just doesn't give you great amazing, frantic, adrenaline bursting death matches. I rather have less realism in my damage and firing take, and have great, fun death matches, then get ultra realism, but there's just no fun, because more often than not you're dead before you're even spawned again.

[GoodStuff]

Head shots in a way add realism to a game but its still fake in a way.

I'm sure some people (in real life) have been hit in the head by shots etc but didn't die. I look at it like this, saying a head shot should be an automatic kill because it smashed up your brain is like saying a torso shot should be an automatic kill because it smashed through the heart... not necessarly!

If people want realism, than I say go the distance and apply it as things sometimes happen in real life... that is to say a head shot may not kill you 100% of the time... 90% yeah maybe, but 100%, no.


BTW- 3D Master seems to have it right in his posts.

[Mr.Sociopath]

I think no one got it "right" actually, it's only about taste, because for exemple, I am not the camping type at all i'm very agressive, and I remember playing a lot to unreal tournament( the first one) but playing with instagib mutator, which means one shot, kill , every time

I really really liked that.. so much that if I was playing with all weapon, i'd choose only weapons that allowed head shot for one shot kill
and beleive me, there was very much of these, long battles in instagib mod, with this "oh ****, I got to get away from here" (no i'm not a coward.. but you still got to be strategic)
and i remember too that a lot of real life people I knew, hated instagibs..

so anyway, it's an opinion, but.. i'd think the best thing to do is to allow everykind of server possible for multiplay part.. kind of mutators in unreal

you could choose realistic shooting, or arcade style in the same game.. so every one could be happy and kill each other their own way

[GoodStuff]

Choosing an arcade or realistic setting within the game is an alright idea but if the game is designed for only either one of them, then the fun may suffer if you switch to a secondary setting, but yeah, thats an option.

Still, I see Duke as being an acrade type deathmatch, its just that type of thing, not like Rainbow 6... although if 3DR can somehow blend realisticness with Duke style action, hell yeah I'm all for it.

What must be remembered is that a persons "style" reflects how good they are. Personally, as I became a better player at Duke3d, it became apparent that camping was a newbie tactic, and usually a bad choice when taking on another good player. (For duke3d.)

So what it all boils down to is how will the game be designed. Will it be designed for run and gun gameplay, making camping nearly useless, or will it be stealth type, making camping desirable. It's hard to say what techniques players could use at a game. I guess the answer demands on how good players are at mastering what techniques work for a certain games, of course, I assume DNF will be run and gun, fast fighting, and keeping to Duke3d tempo. However, if 3DR can do something different while making it better, without controls getting too complicated to learn before you're bored of the game, hell yeah, do it.

Not sure if that made sense to anyone (including myself!).

[someguy2435]

I prefer fast paced to realism. Limited realism is ok, but nothing over the top like Infiltration. Headshots would be good as in they do slightly more damage than body shots, but no instant kill ones (except when involving a shotgun).

I'm fairly opposed to sniping weapons in fast-paced DM. If there happens to be any, limit the amount of sniping positions, make ammo scarce or just make it a living hell for a player to get it. I think the only game that did a good example of this was Soldier of Fortune 2 -- the sniper didn't instant kill unless you headshot, it did relatively low amount of damage with body shots, a 5 shot magazine, and powerful recoil to prevent quick follow up shots.

[Micki!]

In the 2001 trailer, Duke were shooting at some guy on a tall building with a sniper rifle, and THAT was a headshot...

So i think that this kind of locational damage will be featured on certain kind of enemies...

[Killd a ton]

basically every fps since half-life has had locational damage so it would be very very very strange if DNF didn't have it.

[someguy2435]

Killd a ton said:
basically every fps since half-life has had locational damage so it would be very very very strange if DNF didn't have it.

Quake 3 and Serious Sam didn't

limited realism >>> extreme realism

if there's a need for instant-kill headshots, make the hitboxes small

[wadsy]

i think what made d3d the best game was the little utils that you could use at will

like running through a door closing it and setting the haloduke on the other side just to give you those 1-2 seconds to run and hide, and the reverse can be said once players got use to you doing these sorta things standing there instead

getting your ass whopped only to use the steroids and reverse the tables

i think the only thing that came close in using utils was probably jedi knight 2 which also gave you the added benifit of force powers and force feilds

[Geo-King]

2.27 - So tell me more about locational damage...
You will, pretty much, be able to shoot anyone anywhere and see them react to it. You will also see the damage at the exact point of impact. In fact, according to a recent post on the 3D Realms forums, you can even shoot off individual fingers!

http://www.planetduke.com/duke4/faq/game.shtml#2.27

[Micki!]

Geo-King said:

http://www.planetduke.com/duke4/faq/game.shtml#2.27

Remember that this post was according to the 2001 version of DNF, it's not sure that the 'Shoot-off-a-limb' feature will be there...

But as i said before, i think that locational damage will work best on average Aliens or humans...

But who knows..?!

[hell-angel]

locational damage:
I wonder what will happen if we shot a Octabrain in a tentacle, would it fall or still float? Would be fun to try out IMO.

[Mr.Sociopath]

what about shooting a very very big-fat-giant-tall-as-godzilla-alien in his tiny hidden eye and be lucky so the bullet pass through the brain and kills instantly the creature?.. now that would be nice..

tough, it could make the end boss too easy for some... but if done right("right" as in never-seen-before) this could lead to a very interesting kind of gameplay..
meaning , if the ennemi doesn't try to hit duke with his very damagable eye kind of thing

this could be used for robotic ennemies as well..
Duke could read somewhere the weak spot of certain vehicules and ennemies, so the player knows how to kill them..it could provide more diversity in a more player-learning-based RPG element...(damn i'd like duke to be an rpg )

good'ol fork in the octabrain's eye would be ..err.."unforgottenable"

[Hooper]

Hey guys. I'm the Hooper that GoodStuff was refering to. I'll be going into more detail on the DukeMatches we had if you want but I made another topic to discuss what I think made Duke3D an awesome game.

The Duke Nukem Experience

[Micki!]

Welcome to the Froums Hooper...

[GoodStuff]

Too many people board the Hype Train and take the one way trip from Speculation Station to Reality City - which ulitimately leads to Letdown Town.

Hooper's quote of the decade.

Check out his post! Duke3D Experience

This type of gameplay is where it's at!

[Geo-King]

Am I the only one who thinks DMing against real people while monster bots are running around in the backgound is fun?

[Micki!]

Geo-King said:
Am I the only one who thinks DMing against real people while monster bots are running around in the backgound is fun?

If you can shoot them, i would think it's fun too...

[GoodStuff]

Yes. Fighting Deathmatch with other bots or ememies in the game at the same time is damn good.

[Echo Black]

You forgot to tell us who won: Hooper or Scully.

[Kalki]

Geo-King said:
Am I the only one who thinks DMing against real people while monster bots are running around in the backgound is fun?

Yeah this has been a popular idea over the years.

It could be a new definition of Dukematch. With two score counters. One for regular frags that let you win a match. The other score is for monster kills, accounting for difficulty & monster type (a battlelord gets you more than a octabrain) and the maximum scorer here gets to be "Duke" which means you get superior capabilities. Of course, the player who manages to kill a "Duked" player scores extra on both monster and frag counters.

[Micki!]

Kalki said:

Yeah this has been a popular idea over the years.

It could be a new definition of Dukematch. With two score counters. One for regular frags that let you win a match. The other score is for monster kills, accounting for difficulty & monster type (a battlelord gets you more than a octabrain) and the maximum scorer here gets to be "Duke" which means you get superior capabilities. Of course, the player who manages to kill a "Duked" player scores extra on both monster and frag counters.

Sounds a bit like the Multiplayer options in AvP2, where you could set the amount of points which spicies/character gave..! Aliens FX, is like: Drone: 25% Queen: 75% etc..!

[Mr.Sociopath]

i want instagib for christmas