Need help for an Ultra high resolution pack mod

[The Commander]

Originally Posted by TerminX

That is an absolutely horrible idea and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I think in other words he can't find a model that has glasses on.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by TerminX

I think the whole "you can't modify and redistribute the original maps" thing is a result of someone taking something out of context or not fully understanding the situation when first making the comment. There is a map authoring template on the CD, clearly provided as the starting point for creating the accompanying .txt file that goes along with most maps, complete with a section pertaining to modifying the original maps and creating/releasing new works based on them. I don't know who first said that you can't make Duke3D mods with altered maps, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense and I suspect it was given as an answer to a poorly worded question that sounded more like it was a question about 3DR's longstanding policy of not allowing game resources to be used in any way in any other game, made by 3DR or otherwise.

As long as what you come up with only works with the full, registered version of Duke3D there shouldn't be any problems.

The map authoring template I mentioned is near the end of BUILDHLP.EXE. The specific text pertaining to the issue is as follows: "When you upload your .MAP file(s) to FTP sites, BBS's and the like, you are encouraged to include this file with the map, so that you can be recognized for your work! We can't wait to see what you can come up with!" followed in a later section by the line "Base: New level from scratch/Modified ExMx/xxx.MAP".

Of course, this is all in stark contrast to the wording of the LICENSE.DOC on the Duke3D CD, which pretty much says every user map ever uploaded is an infringement on 3DR's rights as it is thoroughly impossible for any user map to ever pass the hilarious list of restrictions. Thankfully, LICENSE.DOC can more or less be ignored as EULAs and the like are completely unenforceable from a legal standpoint, especially when you can install the game without ever seeing it. This is good, because otherwise we would all be stuck adhering to ridiculous clauses stating things like "The distributor of any New Level or Level Editor must be authorized to distribute the Game itself".

This is good to know. I'll save this for future reference, especially since it doesn't look like anyone else read your post.

Originally Posted by Qbix

your ? key is broken. Please fix it as it is annoying

My Question mark key works fine... why do you ask?????????????????????????

[gommorrha]

Originally Posted by The Commander

I think in other words he can't find a model that has glasses on.

ok, I've learnt my lesson now...

[TerminX]

Originally Posted by gommorrha

ok, I've learnt my lesson now...

Have you?

[MusicallyInspired]

Night vision goggles? Computer screen over one eye? Are you kidding? Now you're talking about absolutely destroying everything that made Duke who he is and what his game is and replacing it with just another bland futuristic marine/special forces/whatever serious shooter. Duke is all about style, wit, and kicking major alien behinds. Anything but bland and serious. There's a difference between making Duke3D look a little more realistic and interesting and completely destroying the original vision.

I'm quickly losing hope on this. We haven't seen any photo-realistic textures and now you're caught double red-handed with that line about replacing Duke's sunglasses with night vision goggles. That was a mistake and you did indeed just give away the fact that you're using pre-existing models. Please feel free to prove me wrong as I sincerely hope a project like this can come to fruition.

And I read TerminX's post, DeeperThought, and found it very interesting and enlightening.


*sigh* "night vision goggles"...

[mental stampede]

What an entertaining thread. I wanna see some of the "finished textures."

[gommorrha]

Ok I've taken what you've said on board, I will be tweaking the duke model, Ive added some sunglasses and I'll make a new more duke like face texture too.

below is some other models and texture examples.

The computer will replace the arcade machine... "I don't have time to play with myself"

[gommorrha]

some more texture examples:

[Radar1013]

That makes no sense if that comupter replaces the arcade. You are never going to find an arcade that has a computer in it that you can play games on. That is very unrealistic.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, the computer thing makes no sense in an arcade of a movie theater. It's gotta stay an arcade machine.

Those textures do look nice, though. You said you took them with your camera? Some of those doors look pretty extravagant. Not sure where they'd go in a Duke map. These would look nice in-game, though. Assuming they are seamless.

What I think we should do is see if we can bump up the Res of the HRP project... Think of how many models and textures were either shrunk down or low poly counted....

I say we find out what the ABSOLUTE LIMITS of the engine are (e.g. find out the largest working texture size I've seen 512x512... can we go 1024x1024???) and find out the largest poly count the build engine can handle.

Then we say to the HRP people... give us the BEST QUALITY your computer can handle.

Cause considering the HRP project started 3 years ago (if I'm not mistaken).... The average graphics card should be able to shit over what the average was 3 years ago.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Piano Man

Cause considering the HRP project started 3 years ago (if I'm not mistaken).... The average graphics card should be able to shit over what the average was 3 years ago.

That's true, but not very relevant. Today's HRP contains a ton more textures and models than it did 3 years ago, so our graphics cards are working much harder to use it. Also, we've already reached the point of diminishing returns as far as resolution and numbers of polygons. Continuing to increase those numbers isn't going to make the game look much more modern, because it still lacks modern lighting and other goodies.

[Commando Nukem]

It really doesn't have to do with resolution, poly count, or lighting. It has to do with the style of the textures and models. If you go for a realistic, stylistic, sleek style (which is not what the HRP has been doing) you'll get something that looks far better.

Another things. The more I look at some of this stuff this guy is posting, the more I think he has done nothing but download Half-Life models and cut them up. I used to do that stuff all the time. The textures could easily come from Googling various websites, and with his track record of now being caught twice doing such a thing already it wouldn't suprise me.

This, however, should not taint the concept of doing a super upgrade to Duke3D. Redesigining the maps, giving it photo realistic textures, giving the monsters a make over, doing new sounds and music. I think Duke 3D could be enhanced a lot more than it has been. The tools already exist.

[d3ad connection]

Personally I think it looks fine the way it is now. I'd love to see redesigned maps though.

[Rider]

gomorrha, perhaps you should use one of the more recent duke images as a reference for your duke model. Especially the teaser trailer screenshot shows a duke that might fit with your current 'vision' of how he should look. (This one.)

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

Continuing to increase those numbers isn't going to make the game look much more modern, because it still lacks modern lighting and other goodies.

Yeah... but if we redesign the Maps from scratch... we can improve the lighting by heaps... believe me. It is possible... although I know real-time lighting isn't possible... but hey... we can make it look much, MUCH better.

[Roma Loom]

Lowrez. Blurry. Untilable. Photos. Not textures. Sry.

[Quakis]

Originally Posted by Roma Loom

Lowrez. Blurry. Untilable. Photos. Not textures. Sry.

I have to agree with Roma, there is just too many things to point out wrong about them.

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

Personally I think it looks fine the way it is now. I'd love to see redesigned maps though.

First of all... can we get a proper answer from 3DRealms on whether re-building them from the ground up is legal??? And do they mind if we try??? We wouldn't be 'editing' their original maps....

(Please George??? )

[Spiker]

Originally Posted by Piano Man

First of all... can we get a proper answer from 3DRealms on whether re-building them from the ground up is legal??? And do they mind if we try??? We wouldn't be 'editing' their original maps....

(Please George??? )

Have you read TX's posts? guess not. Anyway I think this project will die sooner than you think guys. You will see.

[NightFright]

I am wondering why this whole thread is still unlocked. *LOL*

[The Commander]

It seems that everyone thinks that because TX said that it was ok as long as it only works with the full version of Duke Nukem that it is ok to edit them.

Well in saying that, that means you can not do episode one and the others because they can still run with the shareware version of Duke, so either way cancels each other out. So I would say it's safe to just leave it alone.

[Piterplus]

Originally Posted by The Commander

It seems that everyone thinks that because TX said that it was ok as long as it only works with the full version of Duke Nukem that it is ok to edit them.

I remember, that was discussed long time ago. Conclusion was, that is somebody will modify/improve maps, he cannon distribute them directly, but probably it is possible to distribute difference patch, which only works with original games files.

Originally Posted by Piterplus

I remember, that was discussed long time ago. Conclusion was, that is somebody will modify/improve maps, he cannon distribute them directly, but probably it is possible to distribute difference patch, which only works with original games files.

But we DON'T WANT to edit the original maps...

We want to rebuild them from scratch... that's entirely different.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Piano Man

But we DON'T WANT to edit the original maps...

We want to rebuild them from scratch... that's entirely different.

Moreover, just because some people talked about it a long time ago and decided that they weren't allowed to distribute edited maps, doesn't make them right.

Duke 3D map files don't contain any graphics or sound, and are completely useless unless you have a copy of the game. For that reason, it's hard to see how their distribution in modified form would be a threat to 3DR's intellectual property. And, as TerminX pointed out, the map authoring template included with the game explicitly recognizes modifications of the original maps as legit creations. None of this PROVES that distributing edited versions of the original maps is legal, but it makes a strong prima facie case. The upshot being, no one with balls would hesitate.

So if you want to remake or edit the original levels, my advice would to be to stop talking about it and just do it.

[The Commander]

Apon reading the "LICENSE.TXT" again...

[4]  NEW LEVELS.

     "New Levels" are data that modify or substitute for Game data, thus
     modifying or replacing one or more Game levels.  Creating or distributing
     a New Level or a software tool that has no substantial purpose other than
     to contribute to the creation of a New Level infringes rights of 3D Realms
     and is prohibited by law except as permitted by 3D Realms.  3D REALMS
     PERMITS NEW LEVELS ONLY THAT MEET ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:

 [A] The Level must only work with a RETAIL episode of the Game. It must NOT
     work with this Episode One.

 [B] The level must not contain modifications to any COM, EXE, or DLL, or to
     other executable file.

 [C] The level must not contain any illegal or indecent material, or (without
     appropriate irrevocable licenses) any trademarks, copyright protected
     work, or other property of third parties.

 [D] The level must prominently identify at least in every online description
     and with reasonable duration on an opening screen
     (1) the name and email address of the level's creators, and
     (2) the words "THIS LEVEL IS NOT MADE BY OR SUPPORTED BY 3D REALMS".

 [E] The level and any use of it must be offered solely for free (other than
     any incidental online charges).

 [F] By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Level, all
     owners of any trademark, copyright or other right, title or interest
     therein (to the extent different from the Game as originally distributed
     by 3D Realms) grant back to 3D Realms an irrevocable royalty free right
     to distribute the level.

 [G] The distributor of any New Level or Level Editor must be authorized to
     distribute the Game itself (either in writing, or by being within a
     category where no writing is needed under this LICENSE.DOC).

I think that as long as the rules stated above are followed then it's fair game to edit them, (this was the liscene txt from the shareware, although im "sure" the same rules apply for later versions. The only thing I can see that basicly screws the whole "LICENSE" thing up is that "ANY" map made in build/mapster will work in the shareware episode, even if the textures are missing it still works... So in saying that, every single add-on map made today breaches this license.

[DeeperThought]

Also, clause [G] seems to rule out ANY user maps. But that is a good reason for not taking it seriously (and that was a big part of TerminX's post, if you read it).

The provision about not working in episode one (i.e. the shareware version) is also quite silly and has never been followed. No one has ever gotten in trouble for releasing a user map that worked with the shareware version (it's laughable to think that could happen). Even in a bizzarro world where that were an issue, it could easily be circumvented simply by including some stuff that isn't in episode one (a few monsters and textures).

[gommorrha]

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

So if you want to remake or edit the original levels, my advice would to be to stop talking about it and just do it.

This sounds like good advice, I will need to finish the models and textures first so its going to be a while before I think about mapping.

Or could use the normal HRP pack for now and change the texturing later.

[Radar1013]

Yeah, the textures in the current HRP are far better then your untilable textures, gommorrha.

[SwissCM]

Or you could just give up because this is never going to go anywhere.

[Radar1013]

^ true.

Originally Posted by SwissCM

Or you could just give up because this is never going to go anywhere.

Your right... Just for fun I spent 6 hours redesigning the top of the building in E1L1 where you start and trying to implement spotlights, soft shadowing and nice shading...

Considering it would take me about 200 - 300 hours to make a fully revamped E1L1... not ******* worth it.

[diehard52]

Wow lots of hostility...not really necessary. Dude if you want to make a mod go for it.

Originally Posted by diehard52

Wow lots of hostility...not really necessary. Dude if you want to make a mod go for it.

GEE... I think I just said that I wasn't because it's not worth it?
Wow... talk about failing to read between the lines.

I did however get this far in 6 hours... trying to do gradual lighting and soft shadowing.

[MusicallyInspired]

Wow! Nice! I like the addition of the fans on the left there. Some other additions of detail might look good too.

Yeah... I was going to but thought it takes too much time to try and implement all the lighting and shadowing effects...

Was going to put a lovely satellite up there and a radar dish... but I don't have the time... I got to work on my Piano exam.

[Nimoy]

The license is really old, is it still applicable? Can they expire?

[halo33]

pretty nice