Revisions

[Corvin]

Veldrick, made a mod where he added to the art files, each frame displayed there own weapon, I think he made four different weapons for it.

It was cool but took alot of work and he did it in a short time.

[Nimoy]

Yes, this probably one of the easiest things to achieve while making a drastic "realistic" change to the game.

[Corvin]

If its so easy, I don't know why someone doesn't do it now. I mean there's models of duke now and it would be a lot easier to do that today than it was in the late '90's with .art tiles.

I should mention using I think v1.3D he even adjusted the movement speed based on the the weight of the weapon. Which was unheard of back in those days.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Corvin

I should mention using I think v1.3D he even adjusted the movement speed based on the the weight of the weapon. Which was unheard of back in those days.

It's not possible to do that using the 1.3D scripting commands. Prior to EDuke, it was not even possible to detect which weapon the player was using at a given time. The closest you could come would not be very close (maybe constantly using tossweapon and then having the tossed weapon become an invisible barrier in front of the player that tries to slow him down for a length of time depending on which weapon it is)

@Nimoy: The player has about 100 tiles, and each one of them shows him holding a weapon. That means you need a 100 new tiles for each weapon you show him holding. For all 10 weapons, that's about 1000 tiles of art. Even assuming that some are minor edits of others, that a hell of a lot of tiles. I don't know how you reach the conclusion that it's easy.

[moggimus]

The new Duke looks sweet... has my vote.

[Tea Monster]

I'm thinking it should be really easy to make one of the other models - say the pig cop - animate with the same moves as the duke model. I did a quick test and that is quite easy. Unfortunately, its nearly impossible to keep a separate model of the weapon to keep in the same place with both models due to scale differences between the length of the legs of the Duke model and the Pig cop. The pig cop would have to run around with his hands in the air to keep the weapon in the same spot so thier hands matched up on the separate model of the weapon.

The only other way would be to have each player model have a separate model, each one with a pipe bomb, an RPG, a shotgun, etc. The file sizes and texture sizes would be prohibitive, not to mention swapping out all those models and textures whenever someone cycled a weapon.

I'll try it again in the morning and see if I can match them up.

Thats why I was asking about separate models for weapons and players in deathmatch.

[Jokke_r]

Well the game engine obviously knows what weapon the player is wielding, with some extra code so that you can tag objects to character models would be the first step, but getting the weapon object to animate and to make the character model animate in sync with the weapon would be harder. A new animation system would probably be needed. Which is a lot easier said than done. A System which allows sub-animations where you can animate bones independent from each other. like only animating the upper torso when doing shooting animations, separate animations for legs etc. The game would still need to be aware of all the animation states which i guess it mostly is atm? Doesn't the game have different sprite frames for running, running and shooting etc? One would then have to define that the state of running and shooting should play the run animation for the entire body but the shoot animation would override upper body bones like arms and torso etc. But then again you're still using a keyframe animation system right? None of this will be possible untill some kind of bone animation system is implemented.

[Parkar]

Actually the game does not have different frames for shooting while running as there are no shooting frames at all.

As far as Animation system goes JonoF had a system planned based on the actions instead of directly replacing tiles. It would allow a bit more detail as quiet a few actions use the same tiles meaning we have to compromise a bit at the moment.

As far as showing the weapon held the easiest way to do it with what we have now would be to split duke by the waist. That way we can make one upper body version for each gun but without all the animation frames. It would need some con code obviously to keep the models aligned and animating in synch. It also wouldn't work to well for 8-bit mode.

[vakooja]

Originally Posted by Parkar

Looks good, might have gone abit overboard with the contrast on the duke skin. You would hardly ever see shading almost completly black like this on skin.

Can't say I don't agree. How's this one?

[Parkar]

Just judging by the flats that looks better .

[Corvin]

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

It's not possible to do that using the 1.3D scripting commands. Prior to EDuke, it was not even possible to detect which weapon the player was using at a given time. The closest you could come would not be very close (maybe constantly using tossweapon and then having the tossed weapon become an invisible barrier in front of the player that tries to slow him down for a length of time depending on which weapon it is)

The Mod is called - Weaponry TC- and was for v1.3D I just checked. So I'm not sure how he pulled it off but he did it.

http://archive.dukertcm.com/knowledg...-minor/wtc.exe

Description :
Duke now runs at different speeds depending upon how much he is
carrying
Weapons weigh different amounts
Heavy weapons include:
Missile launcher
Plasma launcher
Sniper rifle - not physically heavy, just bulky
Ladders
Man traps
Four sample maps - a new map, two maps from NW3, and E1L1

[Hendricks266]

Originally Posted by vakooja

Can't say I don't agree. How's this one?

Could you post it at ImageShack or elsewhere so it won't be affected by 3DR's 512x512 image distortion?

[Nimoy]

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

@Nimoy: The player has about 100 tiles, and each one of them shows him holding a weapon. That means you need a 100 new tiles for each weapon you show him holding. For all 10 weapons, that's about 1000 tiles of art. Even assuming that some are minor edits of others, that a hell of a lot of tiles. I don't know how you reach the conclusion that it's easy.

For someone who knows what they're doing with art, this would just be tedious work. Easy, it just takes time. Also, in terms of everything, its just simple to achieve, just tedious and takes time.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Corvin

The Mod is called - Weaponry TC- and was for v1.3D I just checked. So I'm not sure how he pulled it off but he did it.

http://archive.dukertcm.com/knowledg...-minor/wtc.exe

Description :
Duke now runs at different speeds depending upon how much he is
carrying
Weapons weigh different amounts
Heavy weapons include:
Missile launcher
Plasma launcher
Sniper rifle - not physically heavy, just bulky
Ladders
Man traps
Four sample maps - a new map, two maps from NW3, and E1L1

Ok, YES, it is a mod using only 1.3D commands.

Well, in his code there are elaborate nests of ifpinventory commands, which is typical of pre eduke mods that attempt to do anything interesting with code. As far as I can tell, he is setting the player's default run speed to a low value, and then giving the player tiny boosts of steroids at certain times, depending on how much the player is holding. Some of the inventory slots are used as variables in combination to try to track how much the player is holding. Cool! Ironically, the weapons themselves are quite boring.

[NightFright]

@vacooja:

Forgive me for my ignorance or poor eyesight, but the difference compared to existing Duke skin is hardly noticable, at least it appears so. Additionally, the skin has lost a bit of its sharpness, probably during editing. In general, the effort is praiseworthy, though. Although I think especially Parkar's Duke model is one of the best ones we currently have and does not need as much attention as other models, especially most of the babes.

[Hendricks266]

It probably lost sharpness due to the 511x511 thing.

[NightFright]

Maybe the face can just be cut out and copied over existing skin. If it is such a huge advance over the current one. However, note that there would be several other palettes concerned by this.

[Hendricks266]

Why don't we try Hunter_rus' palmaps?

[Tea Monster]

Way back in the days of Quake 2, before they had skeletal animation with bones, they had a system called 'VWep' which allowed old MD2 player models to be seen with multiple weapons. Is there anything in the spec for the MD3 format that could accommodate this?

Also, is there anything in the Wiki on how to implement Pal maps? If there are suddenly a load of new skins flying around, this would help with pack file sizes.

[Roma Loom]

There is a thread by Hunter_Rus somewhere which explains palmaps in detail.. but still it was pretty confusing for me to understand how the pal definitions work.. but imagine how we can replace for example texture #4210 and its 19 colored instances with only one texture and 2 mask textures... that would save some video memory and HRP size.

[Spiker]

Here is the thread about palmaps

And here is some exaple of defining it (Yes these defs are quite confusing)

tint { pal 1 red 100 green 120 blue 148 flags 1 }
tint { pal 2 red 255 green 128 blue  50 flags 0 }
tint { pal 4 red   0 green   0 blue   0 flags 0 }
tint { pal 6 red 224 green 255 blue 112 flags 3 }
tint { pal 7 red 172 green 157 blue 140 flags 0 }
tint { pal 8 red 178 green 250 blue 258 flags 0 }

defineconv  5 253 15 // REDPAL   -> brown
defineconv 10 252 10 // BLUEPAL  -> dark red
defineconv 11 252 11 // BLUEPAL  -> green
defineconv 12 252 12 // BLUEPAL  -> gray
defineconv 13 252 13 // BLUEPAL  -> dark gray
defineconv 14 252 14 // BLUEPAL  -> dark green
defineconv 15 252 15 // BLUEPAL  -> brown
defineconv 16 252 16 // BLUEPAL  -> dark blue
defineconv 17 252 11 // BLUEPAL  -> green
defineconv 18 252 12 // BLUEPAL  -> gray
defineconv 19 252 12 // BLUEPAL  -> gray
defineconv 20 252 12 // BLUEPAL  -> gray
defineconv 21 252 21 // BLUEPAL  -> red
defineconv 22 252 11 // BLUEPAL  -> green
defineconv 23 252 23 // BLUEPAL  -> yellow
defineconv 24 253 12 // REDPAL   -> gray
defineconv 25 249 21 // GREENPAL -> red

defineconv 13 253 12 // REDPAL   -> gray
defineconv 14 253 11 // REDPAL   -> green
defineconv 17 249 17 // GREENPAL -> blue
defineconv 19 249 21 // GREENPAL -> red
defineconv 20 249 17 // GREENPAL -> blue
defineconv 24 250 21 // GREYPAL  -> red

defineconv 17 251 17 // BROWNPAL -> blue
defineconv 19 251 21 // BROWNPAL -> red
defineconv 20 251 17 // BROWNPAL -> blue

defineconv 17 248 17 // SPECPAL  -> blue
defineconv 19 248 21 // SPECPAL  -> red
defineconv 20 248 17 // SPECPAL  -> blue




// tints for the palmaps
//

tint { pal 210 red  90 green  20 blue   0 flags 0 } // 10 = blue  dark red    77 20  4
tint { pal 211 red 110 green 110 blue  70 flags 0 } // 11 = blue  green 	  86 86 52
tint { pal 212 red 140 green 130 blue 130 flags 0 } // 12 = blue  gray  	  93 83 83
tint { pal 213 red  75 green  69 blue  69 flags 0 } // 13 = blue  dark gray   46 46 46
tint { pal 214 red  55 green  55 blue  34 flags 0 } // 14 = blue  dark green  46 46 27
tint { pal 215 red 115 green  70 blue  40 flags 0 } // 15 = blue  brown 	  82 48 24
tint { pal 216 red  30 green  30 blue  60 flags 0 } // 16 = blue  dark blue   21 27 46
tint { pal 217 red  30 green  30 blue 240 flags 0 } // 17 = brown blue   WARNING: inaccurate
tint { pal 221 red 185 green  40 blue  20 flags 0 } // 21 = blue  red   	 145 33  0
tint { pal 223 red 195 green 165 blue  10 flags 0 } // 23 = blue  yellow	 145 110 0

tint { pal 210 red 110 green  20 blue  10 flags 0 } // 10 = blue  dark red    77 20  4
tint { pal 211 red 144 green 144 blue  92 flags 0 } // 11 = blue  green 	  86 86 52
tint { pal 212 red 175 green 160 blue 160 flags 0 } // 12 = blue  gray  	  93 83 83
tint { pal 213 red  98 green  90 blue  90 flags 0 } // 13 = blue  dark gray   46 46 46
tint { pal 214 red  66 green  66 blue  40 flags 0 } // 14 = blue  dark green  46 46 27
tint { pal 215 red 151 green  85 blue  52 flags 0 } // 15 = blue  brown 	  82 48 24
tint { pal 216 red  40 green  45 blue  84 flags 0 } // 16 = blue  dark blue   21 27 46
tint { pal 217 red  30 green  30 blue 240 flags 0 } // 17 = brown blue   WARNING: inaccurate
tint { pal 221 red 250 green  52 blue  20 flags 0 } // 21 = blue  red   	 145 33  0
tint { pal 223 red 250 green 200 blue  20 flags 0 } // 23 = blue  yellow	 145 110 0


texture 4888 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/4888.png" }
   bluepal  { file "4888_bluetpal.png" }
}

// Trooper (1680)

model "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper.md3" {
   scale 9 shade 2
   skin { pal 0 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 1 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 2 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_red.png" }
   skin { pal 5 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 9 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 11 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_green.png" }
   skin { pal 12 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_gray.png" }
   skin { pal 18 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_gray.png" }
   skin { pal 21 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_red.png" }
   skin { pal 22 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_green.png" }
   skin { pal 25 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }

   skin { pal 10 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_green.png" }
   skin { pal 13 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 14 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 15 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 16 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 17 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 19 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 20 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 23 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   skin { pal 24 file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_blue.png" }
   glow { file "highres/sprites/monsters/1680_trooper_g.png" }

   bluepal  { file "1680_trooper_bluepal.png" }
   brownpal { file "1680_trooper_brownpal.png" }
// greypal  { file "foobar" }
// greenpal { file "foobar" }
// redpal   { file "foobar" }
// specpal  { file "foobar" }

  
  
}

// Access Switch 2 (170/171)
model "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.md2" {
   scale 10 shade 0
   skin { pal  0 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal  1 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal  2 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal  5 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal  9 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 11 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 12 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 18 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 21 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 22 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 25 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 10 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 13 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 14 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 15 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 16 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 17 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 19 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 20 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 23 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }
   skin { pal 24 file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2.png" }

   bluepal  { file "0170.png" }
 
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal_fine.png" xscale 0.3 yscale 0.6 }
   glow { file "highres/sprites/switches/0170_accessswitch2_glow.png" }
   frame { name "idle" tile 170 }
 }

[Tea Monster]

Hell yeah!