The only good thing about the duke fiasco

[MotzaballZ]

What do you mean? Like, for personal gain because it's mutual: he makes money and we get the best possible deal.

[Zombie_Boy]

I'm still holding onto that faint glimmer of hope that this was all an elaborate marketing stunt to get publicity generated around 3drealms cause they're going to release DNF ASAP!

A man can still dream, can't he?

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, I think this song fits very well: AC/DC-All Screwed Up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8rOk...feature=rec-r2

[Dash 9]

Originally Posted by Zombie_Boy

I'm still holding onto that faint glimmer of hope that this was all an elaborate marketing stunt to get publicity generated around 3drealms cause they're going to release DNF ASAP!

A man can still dream, can't he?

The whole 3DR going belly up (or close enough) was pretty much like a big wet fart; it made a lot noise, was terrible for pretty much anyone but then there was nothing else and people moved on. An ideal date for the game's release (if it would have been completed) would have occured when the intarwebs was still buzzing about the news.

[jordybb]

Whatever will be the reason i am true fan of Duke and can wait for lifetime.....

[Ang]

Originally Posted by jaimie10

Yeah I see your point. And listen, Im not a gamer, I play a lot of sports, I have a family, I have very little time to play games. I was interested in the development of DNf 3/4 years ago and have recently become interested as it seemed that DNF might have been close to completion. I'm not pissy that I won't get to play DNF, I'm pissy at the behaviour of GB and 3DR. The fact that I will never get to play DNF, doesn't bother me in the slightest, but it does bother me that true, loyal fans that have stuck by 3DR these past 12 years won't. Incompetence, arrogance and ineptitude bother me immensely. The way GB has responded to the media with childish comments such as WID & STFU - all that rubbish was forgiven because DNF, this incredible game, was due to be released. So like any 'genius' he was given a certain amount of latitude, he can act like a prima donna, he's developing DNF..

And yeah the DNF project team must have been aware that GBs primary goal was not releasing DNF ASAP and that must have alerted some of them to the fact that funding may have run out at some stage. But how were they to know when? Anyway, my main point regarding the responsibility of the DNF's team employment status was that GB had a direct influence over it. If he had concentrated on releasing a game instead of piss-farting about like he has been then not only would we be playing DNF, but the entire DNF team would still be employed, working on the next DN.

I can't believe I'm even posting this, I care less about the game and more about GBs reprehensible behaviour and attitude. OK I'm being slightly facietious here, but seriously this guy has some kind of obligation to the hard core 3DR/DNF fans to keep them informed and updated. He needs to remember who's paying his mortgage.

Well written! I'm glad and surprised to find this kind of mature posts here at the forum.

Anyway. I had also been following this game for 12 years. Checking by the forum some times.
And for 3-4 years ago so did I write my first post here (this is the second), and I claimed that the game would never be released. (and of course people were against me)
However, it was pretty clear even some years back. They never released any screenshots, videos or anything. The only thing we heared about the game was from GB. He told people how big the game where going to be and how long it was at that point and so on.
But it all seemed very much like like a big fraud. You could easily recognize the pattern after a while.

What's typical with this kind of companies are that they release very promising ideas, but you or anyone else are not allowed the see it. And when people and investors are getting suspicious so will they release "a milestone", but still only in text. It's only air in reality, nothing. A bubble. (Just like EESTOR, doing the exaclty same thing)

What also happened back then was that someone left 3DRealms, and if I remembered right so did he claime that he couldn't see an end to the development. Of course did GB defended DNF, but I can imagined it pissed off some investors. And we know now with the facit in our hands that it was true.



Maybe GB was a big fraud. Fooling everyone around and in the end got a lot of money out of this. Money that belongs to the investors of 3DRealms.
Or maybe he was completley incompetent. Have been working with games for 20 years and still didn't know how things works, and having the team working (if they have been working?) on stupid/irrelevant/useless stuff because of the lack of leadership. Maybe he was to proud to admit that he is not only worthless as a teamleader, but also had no clear goal in mind and didn't at all care for either the product or the company, or maybe tge most important his investors, which he owes a lot of money to.

Lt.Havok:
The banks do get problems thanks to people like GB. All that money that has been paying his team for 12 years (30+ people getting paid full salary and he of course who could claim extra salary as a team leader) are gone! The banks, or other kinds of investors (Take2?), then gets to an hard decision after maybe 6 years and still no product, to either break the deal with 3DRealms an lose all the money, or putting in more money and hoping the game will sell so good so it could cover the extra spendings.

And now he is gone. And so the money. And there is no product. The game, or what I have seen of it, doesn't look like 30 people has been working on it for 12 years. Not even for one year.

[lordlonelobo]

Originally Posted by Ang

Well written! I'm glad and surprised to find this kind of mature posts here at the forum.

Anyway. I had also been following this game for 12 years. Checking by the forum some times.
And for 3-4 years ago so did I write my first post here (this is the second), and I claimed that the game would never be released. (and of course people were against me)
However, it was pretty clear even some years back. They never released any screenshots, videos or anything. The only thing we heared about the game was from GB. He told people how big the game where going to be and how long it was at that point and so on.
But it all seemed very much like like a big fraud. You could easily recognize the pattern after a while.

What's typical with this kind of companies are that they release very promising ideas, but you or anyone else are not allowed the see it. And when people and investors are getting suspicious so will they release "a milestone", but still only in text. It's only air in reality, nothing. A bubble. (Just like EESTOR, doing the exaclty same thing)

What also happened back then was that someone left 3DRealms, and if I remembered right so did he claime that he couldn't see an end to the development. Of course did GB defended DNF, but I can imagined it pissed off some investors. And we know now with the facit in our hands that it was true.



Maybe GB was a big fraud. Fooling everyone around and in the end got a lot of money out of this. Money that belongs to the investors of 3DRealms.
Or maybe he was completley incompetent. Have been working with games for 20 years and still didn't know how things works, and having the team working (if they have been working?) on stupid/irrelevant/useless stuff because of the lack of leadership. Maybe he was to proud to admit that he is not only worthless as a teamleader, but also had no clear goal in mind and didn't at all care for either the product or the company, or maybe tge most important his investors, which he owes a lot of money to.

Lt.Havok:
The banks do get problems thanks to people like GB. All that money that has been paying his team for 12 years (30+ people getting paid full salary and he of course who could claim extra salary as a team leader) are gone! The banks, or other kinds of investors (Take2?), then gets to an hard decision after maybe 6 years and still no product, to either break the deal with 3DRealms an lose all the money, or putting in more money and hoping the game will sell so good so it could cover the extra spendings.

And now he is gone. And so the money. And there is no product. The game, or what I have seen of it, doesn't look like 30 people has been working on it for 12 years. Not even for one year.

This is a good idea, except you're way off base.

There are leaked screenshots and videos, both of which are proof enough the game itself exists.

There are no investors in 3DR, so no one was being defrauded. The only one that could (and does) claim losses is Take Two, and that's yet to be settled.

No banks were involved, and no private investors money was at stake.

[Ang]

Ok. The problem is that we still haven't seen anything about the game. Just some few poor looking levels in the desert or in an building and few enemies. And the little we have seen doesn't look good at all, especially not when they should have a couple of years development behind them..

And they must have gotten money from somewhere. 30+ employes, softwares, hardwares, office space and so on do cost a hell lot of money. And they haven't released any product for over 12 years, and the money they made back in 1997 could not last for more than few years. (if even that)
Someone must have lost a whole lot of money.

[Gornemant]

side products, rights on all the duke games, may payne, prey...

[walker4409]

Originally Posted by Ang

Well written! I'm glad and surprised to find this kind of mature posts here at the forum.

Anyway. I had also been following this game for 12 years. Checking by the forum some times.
And for 3-4 years ago so did I write my first post here (this is the second), and I claimed that the game would never be released. (and of course people were against me)
However, it was pretty clear even some years back. They never released any screenshots, videos or anything. The only thing we heared about the game was from GB. He told people how big the game where going to be and how long it was at that point and so on.
But it all seemed very much like like a big fraud. You could easily recognize the pattern after a while.

What's typical with this kind of companies are that they release very promising ideas, but you or anyone else are not allowed the see it. And when people and investors are getting suspicious so will they release "a milestone", but still only in text. It's only air in reality, nothing. A bubble. (Just like EESTOR, doing the exaclty same thing)

What also happened back then was that someone left 3DRealms, and if I remembered right so did he claime that he couldn't see an end to the development. Of course did GB defended DNF, but I can imagined it pissed off some investors. And we know now with the facit in our hands that it was true.



Maybe GB was a big fraud. Fooling everyone around and in the end got a lot of money out of this. Money that belongs to the investors of 3DRealms.
Or maybe he was completley incompetent. Have been working with games for 20 years and still didn't know how things works, and having the team working (if they have been working?) on stupid/irrelevant/useless stuff because of the lack of leadership. Maybe he was to proud to admit that he is not only worthless as a teamleader, but also had no clear goal in mind and didn't at all care for either the product or the company, or maybe tge most important his investors, which he owes a lot of money to.

Lt.Havok:
The banks do get problems thanks to people like GB. All that money that has been paying his team for 12 years (30+ people getting paid full salary and he of course who could claim extra salary as a team leader) are gone! The banks, or other kinds of investors (Take2?), then gets to an hard decision after maybe 6 years and still no product, to either break the deal with 3DRealms an lose all the money, or putting in more money and hoping the game will sell so good so it could cover the extra spendings.

And now he is gone. And so the money. And there is no product. The game, or what I have seen of it, doesn't look like 30 people has been working on it for 12 years. Not even for one year.

Here you are buddy, you see you can post the truth and nothing but the truth and people still don´t believe you. People believe what they WANT to believe . I knew it was a fraud when they used DNF to push the Nintendo-gamecube

---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------

There´s one person who f** us all for at least 8 years ....his name= GB

[Wamplet]

There is another good thing to come out of this: work experience.

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by Ang

Ok. The problem is that we still haven't seen anything about the game. Just some few poor looking levels in the desert or in an building and few enemies. And the little we have seen doesn't look good at all, especially not when they should have a couple of years development behind them..

And they must have gotten money from somewhere. 30+ employes, softwares, hardwares, office space and so on do cost a hell lot of money. And they haven't released any product for over 12 years, and the money they made back in 1997 could not last for more than few years. (if even that)
Someone must have lost a whole lot of money.

They also piggied back the profit from Max payne and Prey and some other games. The only thing suprising about this whole fiasco is how long they lasted without releasing a game.

[v5l]

Just for you T2 fanboys...

T2 is now deep in the red numbers for the third quarter straight.
Net revenue is down to 136 mio this quarter compared to 433 mio same quarter last year or $625 mio to $1,214 mio if you take the first 3 quarters of each year.

They do about everything to get to dollars, assets and IPs to settle the big questionmark hanging over their head. This reachout for duke IP is no incident. Investors are running away.

If they can't release GTA V and VI soon, they go the way of the Dodo .

edit
http://media-newswire.com/release_1098194.html
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:TTWO look at 1/5 Y, compared to other IT titles and trading volumes on announcements. I specially like the 0 Cents dividend after the hit year of 2008, asking myself what the dividend 2009 will be with half the net revenue or less.

/analytics off

[ReadOnly]

Originally Posted by v5l

If they can't release GTA V and VI soon, they go the way of the Dodo .

They have Bioshock 2 and Mafia 2 in the early 2010.

[v5l]

We are talking about a $600mio gap to 0 Cents dividend. You need multiple AAA titles on all platforms to make that up... they even stated that 2008 was extraordinary because of gta in their financial release.

I'm not saying that they will perish, hence the smily... but they are in quite troubled water. With next years earnings, they have first to pay for the $115.9 mio losses they have generated this year until now.

Looking at these numbers, I think DNF is not the major problem

So they need about $1'000'000'000 Net rev a year to operate profitable.
I'd stay with a indipublisher.

[RuskiSnajper.]

It's in 3D realms hands to release the game , no take two nor any other publisher taking ownership will even make anything good to a game later.


You can see that take two will never get DNF as well as community suggests the same.

[ReadOnly]

Community matters not.

[RuskiSnajper.]

I mean , the "Take 2 sucks" tag

[Mcclure5]

You guys just don't get it. I have been on here a few times in the past months and assured everyone the game will be released, and whomever cares to dig, I also mentioned the demise of 3drealms but left apogee alone...... persay indirectly ...
Millions of dollars and twelve years of development to be f ucked off in one day? haha... No.....

Who would intentionally ruin their career and company even if the pay wasn't good or the game wouldn't guarentee finishing?

Who would (and for those of you who are older and know how fast life goes by) give up the rights to something you created that literally thousands have waited twelve years on?

Who reading this would let their only actual dream die.

ya know, some people LOVE fishing... Some people LOVE basketball, hell some people love collecting coins... the point is, they LOVE it.... and anyone who has felt that desire in their hearts should know what this is.. That man loves making games and is obsolutely obsessed in making this. Enough so that he rejects his publisher to finish when they want it done... and to make it perfect ...also enough so that he loses his company in the process.

That is someone who is not in business for the money... but because he loves what he does......

Concieted , maybe, egotisitc , maybe, stubborn , definitely. But none of those traits stop ANY man from having a dream and loving what he does......

I am going to say this one more time, and I am so ready for the bashing...

This game will be released

[JobivanHiob]

Originally Posted by Mcclure5

You guys just don't get it. I have been on here a few times in the past months and assured everyone the game will be released, and whomever cares to dig, I also mentioned the demise of 3drealms but left apogee alone...... persay indirectly ...
Millions of dollars and twelve years of development to be f ucked off in one day? haha... No.....

Who would intentionally ruin their career and company even if the pay wasn't good or the game wouldn't guarentee finishing?

Who would (and for those of you who are older and know how fast life goes by) give up the rights to something you created that literally thousands have waited twelve years on?

Who reading this would let their only actual dream die.

ya know, some people LOVE fishing... Some people LOVE basketball, hell some people love collecting coins... the point is, they LOVE it.... and anyone who has felt that desire in their hearts should know what this is.. That man loves making games and is obsolutely obsessed in making this. Enough so that he rejects his publisher to finish when they want it done... and to make it perfect ...also enough so that he loses his company in the process.

That is someone who is not in business for the money... but because he loves what he does......

Concieted , maybe, egotisitc , maybe, stubborn , definitely. But none of those traits stop ANY man from having a dream and loving what he does......

I am going to say this one more time, and I am so ready for the bashing...

This game will be released

quoted for the truth! Spread the truth!

[WoodenSword]

Wow! When i read your post Mcclure5 I swear i could hear strings playing an inspiring tune like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wRkzCW5qI

great!

[Kray]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

"We want to give Prey as much space as possible, so this meant getting Duke Forever done early in 1998." - Scott Miller, 1997

"We're confident that DNF will be one of the greatest, if not the greatest, game of 1998. And this confidence is not misplaced." - Scott Miller, 1997

"We expect 1998 (our 11th year in the gaming business) to be our best yet, with all kinds of stuff happening with Duke Nukem Forever, Prey, Max Payne, and Descent: Freespace." - Joe Siegler, 1997

"Duke Nukem Forever is a 1999 game and we think that timeframe matches very well with what we have planned for the game." - George Broussard, 1998

"We expect 1999 (our 12th year in the gaming business) to be our best yet, with two new Duke Nukem games coming out, as well as Max Payne (with Prey on the horizon, too)." - Joe Siegler, 1998

"Trust us, Duke Nukem Forever will rock when it comes out next year." - Joe Siegler, 1999

"We expect 2000 (our 13th year in the gaming business) to be our best yet, with the forthcoming Duke Nukem Forever & Max Payne." - Joe Siegler, 1999

"When it's done in 2001." - 2000 Christmas card

"DNF will come out before Unreal 2." - George Broussard, 2001

"If DNF is not out in 2001, something's very wrong." - George Broussard, 2001

"DNF will come out before Doom 3." - George Broussard, 2002

Nice work! The best & smartest thing GB could do now is to sell the Duke IP to someone else. McClure just posted some crazy nonsense about how GB has a dream and he won't let it die blah blah blah. Dude, are you high? GB's dream is to continue doing what he's been doing for the last 12 years...nothing. Of course there will always be brain washed people out there who live in a fantasy land and really believe DNF will come out someday. I don't know whats sadder GB's work ethic & incompetence or the nut jobs that continue to defend him.

[JobivanHiob]

Originally Posted by WoodenSword

Wow! When i read your post Mcclure5 I swear i could hear strings playing an inspiring tune like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wRkzCW5qI

great!

haha! yes really great!

[MrAdidaking]

Originally Posted by tazman

After twelve years of complete failure to deliver a single game - The hopes and dreams of many gamers shattered on waiting and waiting for the duke to arrive.
The only good thing thats come out of this is that the said leader of the project will NEVER ever be given the chance to control the release of a game again.
I really do hope take two get control of duke as thats the best chance you will ever see of the game being finished.
I really dont care if i am banned from forums for this but brussards breath taking incompetence since he has been in control of this game is astounding.
Even when he was offered money to finish a game to a set deadline he still sticks to fingers up to the helping hand.
If duke stays in brussards control - you can bet on duke - never being released.
A complete and utter failure from start to begining and single handedly destroyed the duke franchise.
You would really think he would do the decent thing and pass control to someone who KNOWS what there doing - but dont bet on it.

everything you have said is absolutely true.

[defragen1]

Lol people are dumb ****s for shit talking GB
just plain stupid

and if anyone says the graphical state of the current DNF build does not look good
then you know nothing about games and you should probably uninstall windows right about now

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by Mcclure5

Who would (and for those of you who are older and know how fast life goes by) give up the rights to something you created that literally thousands have waited twelve years on?

If it's not helping me finacially then I have to let it go and get rid of the dream, even if i worked on it for years. That's life.

ya know, some people LOVE fishing... Some people LOVE basketball, hell some people love collecting coins... the point is, they LOVE it.... and anyone who has felt that desire in their hearts should know what this is.. That man loves making games and is obsolutely obsessed in making this. Enough so that he rejects his publisher to finish when they want it done... and to make it perfect ...also enough so that he loses his company in the process.

And get's people fired and then goes gambling in Vegas, not the kind of boss I would work for.

That is someone who is not in business for the money... but because he loves what he does......

If he loves what he is doing so much then why didn't he invest his OWN money into the project instead of gamble it all away in Vegas? George lucas put his own money in Empire strikes back because he loved it and wanted to get it finished.

This game will be released

The question is not will it be released, it's when. If it takes to long then people won't care for it anymore, everyone would be saying "14+ years of development on this game and it's just an average FPS?".

Thoughts in bold.

[Semaj]

Originally Posted by Mcclure5

You guys just don't get it. I have been on here a few times in the past months and assured everyone the game will be released, and whomever cares to dig, I also mentioned the demise of 3drealms but left apogee alone...... persay indirectly ...
Millions of dollars and twelve years of development to be f ucked off in one day? haha... No.....

Who would intentionally ruin their career and company even if the pay wasn't good or the game wouldn't guarentee finishing?

Who would (and for those of you who are older and know how fast life goes by) give up the rights to something you created that literally thousands have waited twelve years on?

Who reading this would let their only actual dream die.

ya know, some people LOVE fishing... Some people LOVE basketball, hell some people love collecting coins... the point is, they LOVE it.... and anyone who has felt that desire in their hearts should know what this is.. That man loves making games and is obsolutely obsessed in making this. Enough so that he rejects his publisher to finish when they want it done... and to make it perfect ...also enough so that he loses his company in the process.

That is someone who is not in business for the money... but because he loves what he does......

Concieted , maybe, egotisitc , maybe, stubborn , definitely. But none of those traits stop ANY man from having a dream and loving what he does......

I am going to say this one more time, and I am so ready for the bashing...

This game will be released

How many times do you need to see that dreams alone mean nothing? They may "want" to release the game just as muchas anyone else, but that doesn't mean they have any ability to actually release the game. They may live, breath, and dream of DNF every waking moment, but if they don't have a team to make the game or the rights to release the game, there is nothing 3DR can do for DNF. In that regard, 3DR has dropped the ball. In the real world, nothing they feel towards DNF matters at all.

[Suppressor1]

So true

[defragen1]

any news on the court case?

[Ironside]

Originally Posted by Ang

GB was a big fraud. Fooling everyone around and in the end got a lot of money out of this. Money that belongs to the investors of 3DRealms.

Thats about what happened and he wont let go of Duke either.

[fast-1]

They just took everything we typed to seriously.

They should just do what they feel is good in the future. Not try to do everything we say here.

[Ironside]

What?
They dont do shit.
Radar group is trying to sell ideas? WTF Scott must think everyone is stupid and he is the only person who can think up characters in a multiverse.

[WoodenSword]

I haven't seen it been post before (i think) but Trammell Isaac has continued his Wild Ride (part III):

http://talkinrealatyou.blogspot.com/

[fast-1]

If a games DEVELOPER has a game nearly finished got proof of it. Then the PUBLISHER sues them and not help them.

Then that publisher is a ******.

I wrote a strong word then to see what would happen and it got the *.

So maybe Take 2 should try to forgive and forget.

Stop being a greedy son of a bitch.

[ReadOnly]

Originally Posted by fast-1

If a games DEVELOPER has a game nearly finished got proof of it.

What's the definition of a nearly finished game? How many years more?

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by ReadOnly

What's the definition of a nearly finished game? How many years more?

Not years, months. If it's nearly finished it shouldn't even have any years left to work on it.

[ReadOnly]

Then it never was "nearly finished".

[Alexander]

Oh please, is this T2 vs. 3Drealms debate still going on? Can't believe it.
Well, it does beat the fanatical Micheal Jackson forums....

There is really one good thing that came out of it. The released material.
I don't mean the eyecandy for us fans, though.
Just the possibility how the artwork could inspire other artists or developers.
And that is, by all means something positive. Remember, I said "inspire", not motivate to steal ideas.

[MrAdidaking]

Originally Posted by Semaj

How many times do you need to see that dreams alone mean nothing? They may "want" to release the game just as muchas anyone else, but that doesn't mean they have any ability to actually release the game. They may live, breath, and dream of DNF every waking moment, but if they don't have a team to make the game or the rights to release the game, there is nothing 3DR can do for DNF. In that regard, 3DR has dropped the ball. In the real world, nothing they feel towards DNF matters at all.

This is absolutely true. I'll give you that George/3DR is very passionate about DNF. But this kind of reminds me of John Romero (I know he released the game, but he was not focused and driven.) or Valve (I also am aware they have released their games that they have promised. Again, not focused and driven. Unable to meet deadlines and manage the finishing of games.) I personally believe that the original legends of the industry have a very lazy mentality. There is a reason why other gaming companies, like ID are successful. To my knowledge, they are very into meeting deadlines. ( I have stated elsewhere on this forum that I have not enjoyed their recent games, however, they did sell 3 and a half million copies of Doom 3. They also finished it in a timely manner.)They run their company with both a creative vision and a business mentality. At the end of the day, 3DR WAS a business and therefor needed to be treated as such. It is not all about creativity. I think that George wanted to prove that creativity was the answer to gaming just like John Romero.

[Dukefan24]

Creativity IS the answer. But it's common business sense that you'd think twice before starting an expansive product all over again, 2 times in a row.