Source code for older games

[Altered Reality]

I hope this hasn't been asked before. I'd like to know what happened (as in: is it still available? Could it -technically and legally- be released?) to the source code of the following games:
1) Balls of Steel
2) Blake Stone
3) Duke Nukum
4) Duke Nukem 2
5) Raptor
6) Stargunner
7) Xenophage

[DOSGuy]

A source code release for Stargunner was considered and may occur in the future. Jason Blochowiak released Xenophage as freeware in his recent interview in the Apogee Legacy series, so I think you'd have to ask him about a source code release. The remaining games are still for sale, so they probably won't see source code releases for a while. Wolfenstein 3D and Shadow Warrior have had source code releases despite being for sale, so it could happen, but I'd be surprised. Raptor is not only still being sold for DOS, but Mountain King Studios (formery Cygnus) still sells an updated Win32 version as well, so I doubt they would allow a source code release.

[Symok]

Also, source for the really old games (Original Duke, etc) is most likely lost due to the volitility of the storage material (magnetic disks).

What would you do with the source to the original Duke, anyway?

[Spartan_234]

Originally Posted by Symok

Also, source for the really old games (Original Duke, etc) is most likely lost due to the volitility of the storage material (magnetic disks).

What would you do with the source to the original Duke, anyway?

- I'd put in a sound system so that it can play MIDI music and digitized sounds from Duke3D.
- I'd make the graphics VGA and increase the framerate to 60 fps.
- I'd put in more cheat codes (god mode, all weapons, etc.)
- I'd put in a DOS extender to get rid of those stupid 640k memory limitations.

That's what I'd do. What are your ideas for the original Duke Nukum source code?

[IceColdDuke]

Only other game from Apogee id want source code to is Blake Stone...and the only other game id want source for is Diablo.

[XPM]

Another idea would be to perhaps port it to other platforms (Without having to use dosbox)

I can still see it ...commander keen running native on linux x86!

[Joe Siegler]

I asked Jason about source. He said he didn't have it; he tried to find it, but couldn't. I think you guys might need to accept that several of these things are lost to the ages. Backup systems generally didn't exist back then.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by Altered Reality

I hope this hasn't been asked before. I'd like to know what happened (as in: is it still available? Could it -technically and legally- be released?) to the source code of the following games:
1) Balls of Steel
2) Blake Stone
3) Duke Nukum
4) Duke Nukem 2
5) Raptor
6) Stargunner
7) Xenophage

1) Wildfire would have to do that
2) Don't think it exists.
3) Pretty sure it doesn't exist.
4) Pretty sure it doesn't exist.
5) Scott Host has that, you'd have to ask him.
6) Unknown
7) Lost for now.

[Xerxes]

Duke Nukem 1 isn't really that complicated so you could rewrite it if you wanted to...

It'd still take some time...

[Altered Reality]

Originally Posted by Spartan_234

- I'd put in a sound system so that it can play MIDI music and digitized sounds from Duke3D.
- I'd make the graphics VGA and increase the framerate to 60 fps.
- I'd put in more cheat codes (god mode, all weapons, etc.)
- I'd put in a DOS extender to get rid of those stupid 640k memory limitations.

That's what I'd do. What are your ideas for the original Duke Nukum source code?

1) I'd change its level interpretation code. I'd base the new code on a 3D engine, so that, where the original game would load and place a tile, the new code would load and place a 3D object.
2) I'd do the same thing for sprites, to have them replaced with 3D models. I'd love to see Parkar's Duke model kick ass in an updated Duke Nukum.
3) I'd add the mighty foot to Duke's weapons. Press space to kick, like in DNMP.

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

1) Wildfire would have to do that
2) Don't think it exists.
3) Pretty sure it doesn't exist.
4) Pretty sure it doesn't exist.
5) Scott Host has that, you'd have to ask him.
6) Unknown
7) Lost for now.

Argh. Down the drain go my hopes.

[IceColdDuke]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

I asked Jason about source. He said he didn't have it; he tried to find it, but couldn't. I think you guys might need to accept that several of these things are lost to the ages. Backup systems generally didn't exist back then.

Are you talking about Blake Stone(if so that sucks), if that source code is lost is it legal to say modify the Wolfenstein source code or a port to support Blake Stone?

As far as raptor I mean just as a side project it would be fun just to add weapons or levels same with Wacky Wheels.

[moron]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

Duke Nukem 1 isn't really that complicated so you could rewrite it if you wanted to...

It'd still take some time...

its been done theres a vershon floting around on the internet that looks/feels just the same (the name has been changed) but its great and includes sorce code so if you realy want to make you own fan based game that would be the way to go although there are some sticky copyright problems as far as names and stuff

[Cipher]

What happened to the source code to Terminal Velocity? It was such an awesome game; I'd love to see a port made.

[Symok]

Me too. It works near flawlessly in dosbox but an advanced and improved windows version would rock.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by Cipher

What happened to the source code to Terminal Velocity? It was such an awesome game; I'd love to see a port made.

I'm sure TRI has that. The decision to release that would come from them, not us, though.

Remember, the original author has to give permission for that. In most cases it's someone else, not us. Sometimes, we'll release it with their permission, but since TRI is a seperate company, they may wish to handle it on their own.

However, we've never asked. I can't recall being asked about it before.

[filipetolhuizen]

I'd love to see a Windows version of TV too. The Macintosh version is way ahead of the DOS version. How about a port of Corridor 7?

[The Dukenator]

http://www.formspring.me/GeorgeBroussard/q/374903423

[filipetolhuizen]

The webpage was not found...

[The Dukenator]

From above link:
Doing Duke Nukem 1 and 2 for XBLA is a no-brainer. The problem is, we don't have the source code and the programmer claims to have lost/deleted the original discs with the code on them.

[Michael-2792]

[Michael-2792]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

Duke Nukem 1 isn't really that complicated so you could rewrite it if you wanted to...

It'd still take some time...

This is a great idea!
If you can do it alone go there!
I know nothing about programming. I can not help you.

At the time I thought to redo a level of Duke Nukum or Duke Nukem II with the DNMP editor, but ... Too hard for me ^^'
Now, I do not know if I am able to do this.

[Xgthug]

Honestly, you would think a company would keep better track of this kind of stuff.

What about Monster Bash? Is the source still around for that?
It would be a blast to get my hands on that source code, tweaking variables and whatnot.
I have always felt that this title has been severely neglected over the years. Aside from cancelling the sequel, Monster Bash VGA, which I would have killed for, they never bothered to release any goodies for the game, like level editors and patch updates and whatnot.

[Malvineous]

I'm sure the Monster Bash source is still around, the programmer released the decompression code a little while back so that Szevvy could add support for it to Wombat. Perhaps he'd be willing to entertain the idea of open-sourcing it?

[retrojeff]

Originally Posted by Malvineous

I'm sure the Monster Bash source is still around, the programmer released the decompression code a little while back so that Szevvy could add support for it to Wombat. Perhaps he'd be willing to entertain the idea of open-sourcing it?

do you have a link to where it was released/posted

[Malvineous]

It was on Gerald Lindsly's "blog" I guess, which has now been replaced by a wiki, but the code is still there. Gerald Lindsly was behind the FAST game engine used by Monster Bash.

[Frenkel]

No chance of any more hints about the compression used in Monster Bash? I've been sitting here for hours changing bits in mb1_h10.txt, firing up the game, and looking to see what the change is... not even a *little* hint? -- szevvy

This would take too much space here on my homepage (well, actually not that much room... LZW source code currently posted to the bottom of this page). I have some C code to decompress the entries in BASH?.dat files. Perhaps post soon? It really crunches out LZW QIK (of course, FAST!) Any requests to see here? VOTES?:

you mean apart from me? --szevvy

Frenkel Smeijers votes. Zero X. Diamond votes, too. Szevvy would be quite happy to temp-host if it's too big...

I've spent countless sleepless hours working out the files for Monster Bash. I'm up to the stage where I can even draw levels with foreground/background-on tiles, draw most sprites correctly, extract all the music, and so on. However, I've found that there's some kind of error in my un-LWZ'ing, and the background data for level 4 in bash1 doesn't work and drops bytes. Please, put me out of my misery and put that "C/386 code to extract the BASH?.dat files" up so I can see what I'm doing wrong. I've learned all about compression, EGA planes, and much else for this... it's driving me nuts. -- szevvy

Wow! Surprised at the response. I am particularly encouraged by your progress, Szevvy. Way ^5 on redoing the LZW unpack!

Source

[Glassagate]

That would be neat if the source for Monster Bash were released.

[retrojeff]

@Frenkel - thanks, his c2 page was interesting.
@Malvineous - thanks also, do you know if Wombat open source?

[Malvineous]

Wombat's not open source, but if you ask Szevvy he might send you the code. You probably don't need the source though, it will only help you figure out the file formats - and if that's what you're after, Wombat stores most of those in text files that come with the download.

Alternatively I'm going through documenting all these game file formats on the ModdingWiki which is (hopefully) a bit easier to read. The format for the Monster Bash DAT file and sprites are already up on there.

[Xgthug]

I decompiled Monster Bash... Is it okay to say that here? :P

[Malvineous]

Great, tell me the file format of the levels please!

Seriously, decompiling has its uses, but sometimes getting the source code makes things far easier...!

[jbailey]

Decompiling has its' uses, but you probably have 1 big file that's all
assembly code, right? As I understand it, you can't get usable C code
unless the debug information was left in the exe, that's usually striped
out in release versions.

[Jeffpiatt]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

I'm sure TRI has that. The decision to release that would come from them, not us, though.

Remember, the original author has to give permission for that. In most cases it's someone else, not us. Sometimes, we'll release it with their permission, but since TRI is a seperate company, they may wish to handle it on their own.

However, we've never asked. I can't recall being asked about it before.

Seeing that TRI is now part of Microsoft Games Studios. We will never see the source code for that game unless it is put out as an XNA sample.
With blake stone maybe a modification of the ROTT code would work better since most of the code improvements in Stone are also implemented in Rott.

[retrojeff]

Originally Posted by Jeffpiatt

Seeing that TRI is now part of Microsoft Games Studios. We will never see the source code for that game unless it is put out as an XNA sample.
With blake stone maybe a modification of the ROTT code would work better since most of the code improvements in Stone are also implemented in Rott.

Why never? Microsoft has contributed GPL'd source code to the Linux kernel as an example.

[Psycho87]

Originally Posted by jbailey

Decompiling has its' uses, but you probably have 1 big file that's all
assembly code, right? As I understand it, you can't get usable C code
unless the debug information was left in the exe, that's usually striped
out in release versions.

Yes, variable and function names, classes and structures, aswell as comments are lost, but with a lot of patience going over the disassembly, interpreting it, you can definitely convert it back to usuable C(++) code.

I actually have a copy of the Supaplex disassembly made by Herman Perk. He commented most of it and it is very easy to work with. Granted, Supaplex is a fairly simple game, and it was all written in 8086 assembly (no 80186+ instructions used), but Monster Bash and the Keen series really wouldn't be that different.

Some time ago, I actually tried disassembling Blood, but The Interactive Disassembler recognized over 3000 functions in the initial auto-analysis. Monster Bash and the Keen series however, are much smaller. I think it's doable, but it would still require a lot of patience and time.

A source code release of Monster Bash would be great, has anyone tried e-mailing around to see if it still exists and, if so, who has it?

As for the Commander Keen series, I believe I read a post by Joe once on these forums about John Romero planning to release the source code of these games? I couldn't find anything on Romero's website, though.

[Jeffpiatt]

Originally Posted by retrojeff

Why never? Microsoft has contributed GPL'd source code to the Linux kernel as an example.

They put out code to let linux function better with windows but I do not see The game arm putting out code for a flight sim game unless it is for xbox arcade code training.

[Xgthug]

Originally Posted by jbailey

Decompiling has its' uses, but you probably have 1 big file that's all
assembly code, right? As I understand it, you can't get usable C code
unless the debug information was left in the exe, that's usually striped
out in release versions.

Yes, one massive file of pure face-rape. I naively opened it with Reverse Engineering Compiler, and then my brain exploded, naturally.

This is a job for someone with far greater knowledge than my own.

Any takers?

[Malvineous]

What would you hope to achieve by getting hold of a documented disassembly?

[Xgthug]

Originally Posted by Malvineous

What would you hope to achieve by getting hold of a documented disassembly?

Documented? As in understandable?
Modifying simple variables... Running speed, jumping height, enemy behavior... You know, easy tweaks, just for fun.


Cool story, bro's:

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Monster Bash is one of the first things I remember in my life.
I was 3 years old when it came out, and most people cannot even fathom how much I cherished this game, and a lot of people think it's weird how obsessed I am about a game that was never even really popular.
I eagerly desire more of it, but sadly, the game's legacy died long ago with the cancellation of the sequel, Monster Bash VGA.
When I was little, I always wanted to make my own levels for it, and after 17 years of playing the game, I am still very interested in modifying it.
I find it sad how few people other than me appreciate the game, even if I take it to a somewhat unhealthy level.

[Psycho87]

Originally Posted by Malvineous

What would you hope to achieve by getting hold of a documented disassembly?

Reconstruct a C version and port it to modern operating systems. It would allow for easy modding of the game. http://keenmodding.org/