George and/or Scott-Why didn't you trademark the portal technology?

[Kev_Hectic]

Originally Posted by fuegerstef

If they had included this into the SP or official MP it would have been unique.

The funny thing is, the build that 3D Realms canceled in 1998 did have that feature. They were called portal mines.

There's an old E3 98 video interview of that feature being shown off in here somewhere: http://www.apogeegames.com/prey/files/files.htm

[Denz]

Game Design decisions? You weren't there when they had to take such decision to not put it in the game.

[avatar_58]

Anyone who has tried that mod should know WHY its not included. There are bugs and clipping issues out the ass, and many of them aren't solveable. If they had put useable portals into Prey they would have to make it very limited, because there are tons of issues.

I'm curious how many Portal will have. The first thing I'm doing is shooting two portals right next to each other, and then I'm shooting some at the corners of walls, etc.

Honestly whatever people want to do with portals can be done via mods, Prey's singleplayer and multiplayer is fine as it is. HH wanted to focus on story and the experience not just portals.

[Jigsaw]

Originally Posted by ADM

You might be suprised to know that the majority of the gaming market are gamers who aren't hardcore.. so they DO need the help. Just because you think it's dumb doesn't mean others do.

Majority always wins.

That's what different difficulty settings are for. The easiest could have the symbols, the harder ones not. Problem solved. That way "hardcore gamers", as you put it (dunno what's "hardcore" about using the head), could have enjoyed the game without feeling treated like a retard.

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Anyone who has tried that mod should know WHY its not included. There are bugs and clipping issues out the ass, and many of them aren't solveable. If they had put useable portals into Prey they would have to make it very limited, because there are tons of issues.

Of course these issues would have been taken care of, if a Portal gun/tool would have been incorporated professionally into the game. The didn't fix the issues, because they didn't need to. Including or excluding that thing isn't a quick "let's do it" or "let's not" decision. If they had decided to include it, they whole game and whole levels would be different.

[avatar_58]

All I'm saying is there is a damn good reason why Portal has bland boxy levels, because its simply for them to just attach portals to their surface. Would you have wanted the level design in prey to match? I know I wouldn't.

[Jigsaw]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

All I'm saying is there is a damn good reason why Portal has bland boxy levels, because its simply for them to just attach portals to their surface. Would you have wanted the level design in prey to match? I know I wouldn't.

"Portal" is going to be a free bonus to "Half Life: Episode 2". I gurantee you the game would look a whole lot different if it were a full blown stand-alone title. Also, it's still half a year untill Episode 2 is going to be released. Who is to say that they don't overhaul the level design and we didn't just see an early promotional video?

[avatar_58]

Portals have to either stick to a surface or clip it. For a retail game they MUST stick to surfaces because clipping looks bad and causes errors. Okay - so sticking right? How do I stick a portal to a surface that isn't flat? What if there is a piece jetting out near the portal?

Eventually you would be designing your entire game around stopping clipping issues and it would look terrible compared to how Prey looks now.

[Zegraphoob]

Originally Posted by ADM

You might be suprised to know that the majority of the gaming market are gamers who aren't hardcore.. so they DO need the help. Just because you think it's dumb doesn't mean others do.

Majority always wins.

No, that's what difficulty levels are for. But even without those symbols the spiritwalking puzzles were still ridiculously easy. If it is to "appeal to the non-hardcore crowd", then at least not advertise this game as having mind boggling puzzles

[oak man]

Originally Posted by KaiserSoze

Now that Valve has came out with plans for "Portal" tech, is there any reason 3drealms/Apogee didn't patent the tech?

I mean, you guys originally thought up this idea way back with the old Prey stuff in the 90's.

I think this "portal" tech is gonna be cropping up *alot* in various games now and it's kinda ironic 3drealms won't be getting a cut of it.

Thanks.

Well you can't realy patent an idea that has been around since the dawn of sci fi movies(possbly before that too). everyone uses portals. Evan the Mario brothers had a form of portals(warp zones). 3DR/Apogee didn't think of the portal concept, they used it to it's full potential, and did a good job with it. Evan Diablo had portals as someone mentioned earlier.
So if they want to patent portals and call it their own, thats like saying "I invented pencils"

[Jigsaw]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Portals have to either stick to a surface or clip it. For a retail game they MUST stick to surfaces because clipping looks bad and causes errors. Okay - so sticking right? How do I stick a portal to a surface that isn't flat? What if there is a piece jetting out near the portal?

I think clipping shouldn't be a problem, or at least a little one that can be avoided by changing their graphical design. There is no need to completely stick them to a wall. They just as well can float over them, like they already do. After all, they are just rips in space.

Originally Posted by oak man

3DR/Apogee didn't think of the portal concept, they used it to it's full potential

No, not even close.

[ADM]

Originally Posted by Zegraphoob

No, that's what difficulty levels are for. But even without those symbols the spiritwalking puzzles were still ridiculously easy. If it is to "appeal to the non-hardcore crowd", then at least not advertise this game as having mind boggling puzzles

Mind boggling does NOT equal difficult. In fact it has nothing to do with difficulty at all.

Mind boggling = stunning, shocking, amazing puzzles. Which I agree it did have.

[Jigsaw]

Originally Posted by ADM

Mind boggling does NOT equal difficult. In fact it has nothing to do with difficulty at all.

Mind boggling = stunning, shocking, amazing puzzles. Which I agree it did have.

Yeah, some where pretty cool. Especially the cube. The game could have used more of that.

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Jigsaw

I think clipping shouldn't be a problem, or at least a little one that can be avoided by changing their graphical design. There is no need to completely stick them to a wall. They just as well can float over them, like they already do. After all, they are just rips in space.

Have you even tried the portal mod? Don't just argue for the sake of argueing, try it and witness the issues at hand. The portals are actually 3D and have space, making them very hard to get right and not clip anything.

[Jigsaw]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Have you even tried the portal mod? Don't just argue for the sake of argueing, try it and witness the issues at hand. The portals are actually 3D and have space, making them very hard to get right and not clip anything.

Yeah, I have. But like I already said: it's just mod, not a professional part of the game. Issues can be solved... not by Joe Sixpack with some modding abilities, but by professional game designers with real insight into the engine and whatnot. There is always a workaround, otherwise games would have stopped evolving years ago.

I don't argue because of argument's sake but because I hate it when potential is wasted. I know that putting more work into the portals would have extended the development time even more. I also know that it may not have been worthwhile from a financial point of view. After all, game companies are not the Salvation Army. I'm just saying that Prey could have been an even better game than it already is, if the potential had been used.

I still love Prey for what it is, but just think what it could have been...

[ADM]

Think what it IS. Like I mentioned already it wouldn't have fit with the current storyline in Prey 1 and from a game design perspective flooding the player with tonnes of abilities without letting them get used to one long enough is not very smart to do.

There's always Prey 2 and there's a reason why the ability to create portals yourself were left out. Most likely for the reason avatar said and also it opens up more issues such as restricting the player within game space. Sure it could be done.. anything can be done, but was it worth the time needed to spend fixing the issues? Or was it just something they left for Prey 2.

We'll see. Until then there is a mod there that does exactly what you want.. take it as it is.

[avatar_58]

I would gladly take Prey as it is over Prey that has been cut down due to portal issues.

[Jigsaw]

Yeah. I will wait. I don't have any other choice anyway. Whats done is done.

"Don't mourn spilled milk", as the saying goes.

The mod's fine to fool around with it, but of course Prey lacks a fitting level design. Anyway, you guys have some valid points and I will shut up on this issue now. You won!

[wackybrak]

I think Portal is going to be great. The problem with Prey 2 is that the whole "portal technology" was hyped up when in reality, it had little bearing on the way the game played. PORTAL on the other hand will utilize the full potential of the tech without having to focus on "story".

I'm curious how many Portal will have. The first thing I'm doing is shooting two portals right next to each other, and then I'm shooting some at the corners of walls, etc.

That is most likely not going to be an issue. Not to sound like a fanboy, but Valve usually releases non-buggy products. And I expect they'll anticipate someone shooting a portal at a corner, or right next to each other.

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by wackybrak

Valve usually releases non-buggy products.

*cough* Steam *cough*

[Straw Dog]

Originally Posted by wackybrak

Not to sound like a fanboy, but Valve usually releases non-buggy products.

I've had nothing but problems with the source engine. Constant crashes only resolved by switching from Nvidia to ATI and constant sound stuttering, still unresolved by Valve 2 years after the release of HL2 and something which almost every single player of a source engine based game has encountered. I think Source is the most bug ridden engine available to date. Sin Episodes and Vampire Bloodlines (both made with Source) have had exactly the same problems. Hate it, and hate Valve. Love their games, just hate them.

[Zegraphoob]

Originally Posted by ADM

Mind boggling does NOT equal difficult. In fact it has nothing to do with difficulty at all.

Mind boggling = stunning, shocking, amazing puzzles. Which I agree it did have.

It's indeed shocking how it's yet another easy "spiritwalk through the forcefield and turn it off behind the corner" you encounter every 5 minutes. And amazing the developers didn't have more imagination. But the puzzles didn't stun or amaze me at all, and it seems I'm not the only one if these threads and aother forums are any indication, by far.

[Zogger]

tbh I did think those puzzles got a bit repetitive. It could have done with some more spinning cubes, and more impressive appearing corridor effects... That one can never get overused*, and you can probably make it into a puzzle somehow.

I also liked the confusing portal corridor where you can end up going round in circles. I should take a noclip around to see what that corridor actually looks like.

Anyway. More interesting stuff in general. I found the architecture section in this page and the pages it links to on the valve developer wiki quite interesting:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w...r_Mapping_Tips

particularly http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w...evel_design%29 and http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w...evel_design%29

Prey did use these, but it never really quite seemed to be on the scale of HL2 in that respect.

*don't take me literally on that one .

[Denz]

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w..._lostcoast.jpg


It's really cheap. Because you can see the end when you turn back. And only need to do 10 steps to finish it. Actually the ones in HL2 game (not that lost coast, the full game) have more sense.

[DekenFrost]

Originally Posted by Zegraphoob

It's indeed shocking how it's yet another easy "spiritwalk through the forcefield and turn it off behind the corner" you encounter every 5 minutes. And amazing the developers didn't have more imagination. But the puzzles didn't stun or amaze me at all, and it seems I'm not the only one if these threads and aother forums are any indication, by far.

Sadly I have to agree.

I say it again i love the game but you cannot say it had amazing puzzles becouse it is just not true. Yes the cube was nice, but only visually. Even newbie players should be able to figure out what to do once in it.

The gravity changers where nice too, but not exactly very hard either. And that about sums up all the puzzles, apart from the boss fights of course.

But what really is a shame is that, as stated above, the spirite usage is limited only to deactivate the next force field. And that really gets repetitive very quickly.

BUT i don´t think that the devs do not have enough imagination. They clearly wanted to make the game easy and non-frustrating to give new players a good experience as well. Of course that way they couldn´t put in too many hard puzzles.

But thats where Portal kicks in. Portal, and this is just a guess, will not have the dense storyline or imersion like prey. But who cares since it will only be a puzzle game. I like puzzles and portal will give me just that little bit that i couldnt get from prey.

[Denz]

I'm sure Prey 2 will be filling everything Prey 1 lack.

[SpinX]

It seems that valve lovin is in, and 3Drealms bashing too...

and for what reason... 3Drealms is plain and simple THE best game developer in the world...

Balls of steel, wacky wheels, raptor, duke nukem, max payne, prey... they are just the best

[Steve]

max payne, prey.

They did not develop those games. At all. Never. They only had input - they were not the dev team.

[Jigsaw]

Yeah. Max Payne is from Remedy and Prey from Human Head Studios.

[0marTheZealot]

Originally Posted by SpinX

It seems that valve lovin is in, and 3Drealms bashing too...

and for what reason... 3Drealms is plain and simple THE best game developer in the world...

Balls of steel, wacky wheels, raptor, duke nukem, max payne, prey... they are just the best

3DR hasn't put out a game this century...

[Malgon]

Is it a convenient time for Valve to release info about Portal, after Prey's release? Yes, of course they are riding on the hype brought around by it. All in the timing I think.
Were Portals used as effectively in Prey compared to those shown in the Portal video? No, not imo. But there's nothing stopping HH from listening to any criticism levelled at the game, and then adding those features wanted by the community into Prey 2 or even 3. We really don't know what could be done with puzzles in future sequels.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by Mr.Sociopath

just wondering..why aren't george or anyone from 3Dr commenting on valve using portals??..

What's to comment on - really? I'm not sure what you would want us to say.

[Laser Eyes]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

What's to comment on - really? I'm not sure what you would want us to say.

Call them copycats.

[Orochi Avlis]

Originally Posted by Laser Eyes

Call them copycats.

What, they're in grade 2 all of a sudden?

[Joe Siegler]

Indeed. I don't see any need to comment on it. Prey is what it is, and Portal is what it is.

[SpinX]

I think that at 3drealms they are saying to eachother; now that is the reason why we don,t post screens and info about duke nukem forever

[Zixinus]

Okay.
That last three pages were tiring. They were silly. It was about "OMG teyh coppiezd Prey!1!1!!!!11!LOL" and why "no they not" and "es tey di".

[insulting mode off]

well i would think that valve is just copying 3drealms. and wouldn't surprise me since they do have an alliance with EA now.

EA is the publishers of their games. They just release and publish their games, and perhaps market them, but they do not interfere with what Valve is doing. Valve saw to that, as they did not want to create another hype pusher of themselves. They don`t like EA, I think. But they still need to publsih their games, and only EA was willing with Steam about. Remember, that Vivendi cutted itself from Valve becuse of Steam.

This thing by Valve is such a blatant ripoff.

How come? Becuse they USED AN IDEA? I don`t recall having a Portal-making gun before, and I played lots of games.

Oh wait, now that I think about it... OMG VALVE IS RIPPING OFF FROM THE CREATORS OF FLASHBACK! THEY ARE TEH SUCKORZ!
Why?
Becuse in Flashback you had a teleport device. Trow and teleport yourself to where you want to. It has handy and neat.
Wait. That`s not right.
:P

People should really see this to realise that Portal is no Prey rip-off. If you really want to call it rip-off than call it rip-off of this game. It is definitely the same concept and gameplay, but I hope more refined. They should really explore more of portal feature in Prey. Patenting Portals would left us with a game that explores very little of so much playing possibilities. I don't understand how someone wants that if he is not a fanboy, or developer in which case I understand the concern.

Portal is by no means ripoff from Prey. Yes they took an element, but they given it a twist. Every other future in Portal seems totally unrelated to Prey.

It's not like it make's prey a lesser game. please people. No it doesnt affect prey. Dont act like girls..."heeey!!! she has the same skirt as i do, i should have bought them all, damned!!!" "im so totally not original now",...jank jank...

Totally aggre.

just wondering..why aren't george or anyone from 3Dr commenting on valve using portals??.. I bet they are forking angry ..or shamefull not to have put dynamic portals first?(since they reserved the idea for prey 2 obviously ) ..
i'm sad for them

Why aren`t they commenting? Cause they don`t have anything to COMMENT ON?

I've had nothing but problems with the source engine. Constant crashes only resolved by switching from Nvidia to ATI and constant sound stuttering, still unresolved by Valve 2 years after the release of HL2 and something which almost every single player of a source engine based game has encountered. I think Source is the most bug ridden engine available to date. Sin Episodes and Vampire Bloodlines (both made with Source) have had exactly the same problems. Hate it, and hate Valve. Love their games, just hate them.

I had no problems with all those games you described, except for Bloodlines.

But Bloodlines`s case is an exception as they got a barely done engine, unlikne SiN. Also, I heard that its a norm for Trorika (or whatever were their name) for bugfixing their games AFTER they release them.
Otherwise, I never encountered a problem worth mentioning.

Call them copycats.

They would be copycats if they implented portals as Prey did.


Prey and Portal are barely related to eachother. For one thing, their appraoch to portals are different. For Prey, there were merely fancy doors. Yes they had more potential then that, but that was it was used.

Portals RELIES on the technology. It is an active gameplay element, unlike Prey, where they were more of a detail then anything. They were there to make more sense towards the level, as how do you get suddenly from one point of the Spere to another that seems totally unrelated to the previous area.

In Portal, you don`t create them for fun. You have to use them if you want to live. The Portal gun is your only weapon and your only chance of survival.

Portal actively uses the portal technology, while Prey only uses it passively. Big difference.

The only reason to sue, if the code was identical to what Prey uses. And just byu the look, you can see that they are not.
You cannot patent and copyright ideas. That would be plain idocy.

Now shut up and play Prey or something.

[Mongorian]

Doom had portals first.