IGN Hands On

DerricktheW · 08-26-2008, 05:12 PM

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/902/902936p1.html

With a good number of videos

The only somewhat bad thing is he's constantly bitching about the graphics not being remade.

alexgk · 08-26-2008, 05:29 PM

I like the blurry effect when you're hit

Steve · 08-26-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexgk

I like the blurry effect when you're hit

I'm not fan of it.

You can turn it off which is good

George Broussard · 08-26-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerricktheW

The only somewhat bad thing is he's constantly bitching about the graphics not being remade.

People don't really understand how much work that would be. Duke 3D is a "real" game, meaning that it has a lot of scope and assets, even for an old game. As they stand, Doom and Duke 3D have more content that 99% of XBLA games.

The Bionic Commando remake is fantastic but that was probably a 20 man team on that game for a year. We had 3-4 people on this for 6 months and still managed to add a tremendous amount of cool features.

There's no way we could have updated 5000 textures or turned things into a real 3D engine.

jagguar20 · 08-26-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Broussard

We had 3-4 people on this for 6 months and still managed to add a tremendous amount of cool features.
.

Wow seriously? I never thought that so few people could port a game in just 6 months, and add new features!!
Anyways let's remember that 1 3DRealms developer = 100 normal devs.

d3ad connection · 08-26-2008, 08:33 PM

It seems like I'm the only one glad they kept the original graphics.

Steve · 08-26-2008, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

It seems like I'm the only one glad they kept the original graphics.

I'm glad they did... but not glad about the widescreen thing

Ah well

Joe Siegler · 08-26-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

It seems like I'm the only one glad they kept the original graphics.

No you're not. I personally never cared for the HRP. I prefer the original. To me (the gamer, not the 3DR person) the HRP changes the entire "feel".

DerricktheW · 08-26-2008, 08:40 PM

Oh no, I was NEVER complaining about you guys using the original graphics. I was saying it was annoying that Hilary kept complaining about it not having a new look.

I'm completely satisfied with a game that still stands the test of time, not a game sold on graphics.

Personally, I didn't even like the makeover Bionic Commando received. It made bullets near invisible, making it hard to see them.

Steve · 08-26-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerricktheW

Oh no, I was NEVER complaining about you guys using the original graphics.

We know

I'm very tempted to grab a 360 controller and plug it into my computer... Get some Duke3d + controller action in early

MegaMustaine · 08-26-2008, 09:20 PM

I hate the HRP, and the original graphics are a must for me. The only thing I'm disappointed about is the wide screen. Other than that the port seems to be perfect.

Weses · 08-27-2008, 12:19 AM

I don't care about the graphics not changing and the screen not being very big. As long as it's Duke and I can seen whos ass I'm kicking, you have my buy.

I play my 360 on my PC moniter anyway, shouldn't be that hard to see because I'm close enough.

Talos · 08-27-2008, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

It seems like I'm the only one glad they kept the original graphics.

No you're not. I don't like the HRP. It destroys the whole feeling 3DR gave to the original Duke3D. I wonder why so many guys love it though... I think it's hideous. I'm so glad they've ported the original to the 360.

Edit: I see Joe thinks the same about it - thats cool.

Woutsie · 08-27-2008, 04:35 AM

Those vids are great!

Retodon8 · 08-27-2008, 07:13 AM

I never tried the HRP, but part of the reason is that I expect to prefer the original stuff anyway.
Sure, 3D enemies are cool, but they're made by different artists, who likely interpret a set of pixels differently than I would have, resulting in an enemy that doesn't look exactly right to me.
Everybody has developed a personal look on the game for him-/herself.

An official high res makeover might still have that problem.
Just look at Diablo 3, where some fans disagree with the actual developers, even though that's how they see their universe themselves.
Like George said, it would've been way too much work to redo everything anyway.
I'll just play DNF for high res stuff.

Speaking of 3D enemy models...
The border around the viewport of the game, also the masthead for this subforum, seems to include a render of the original Queen 3D model.
Does that mean 3DR still has those models?
I found some DN3D and SW renders over at Hash.com, but this seems to be a different render of the Queen.
That could mean the original models aren't lost (or that 3DR didn't upload all their renders there).

Mr.Fibbles · 08-27-2008, 11:16 AM

I enjoyed reading the comments on the IGN hands on. . .if nothing else it revealed the ignorance of some people there. Everyone knows DNF was never on the Doom engine. . .
And why did he call Duke 3D a Doom clone? Two different engines, two very different stories. . .besides, Duke was around long before the Sarg.

I think people under estimate how much work it is (would be) to update the graphics for Duke 3D. There really are 5000 graphics and they aren't simple graphics either.

If I had a 360, I would get the game so I could do some MP with some friends with 360s. Of course, I don't have a 360 but I want one more than I did before.

Denz · 08-27-2008, 01:22 PM

I always played without the music in Duke 3D, and i must say with music it does not feel the same from seeing those videos.

MegaMustaine · 08-27-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denz

I always played without the music in Duke 3D, and i must say with music it does not feel the same from seeing those videos.

I'm sure you can turn it off. I never play with the music either.

Steve · 08-27-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMustaine

I'm sure you can turn it off. I never play with the music either.

Ditto. Although I only turn it off when Dukematching

Retodon8 · 08-27-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fibbles

And why did he call Duke 3D a Doom clone? Two different engines, two very different stories. . .

Back when DN3D came out, there weren't any "first person shooters".
There was Wolfenstein 3D, which was great when it came out, it became pretty popular, but it was somewhat simplistic.
Then came Doom, with multiplayer, more graphical detail than you could ever want, the need for a new computer to have it playable in full screen, lots of new gameplay elements...
It probably was the perfect game for some, and it became really popular.
Of course then everybody wanted a piece of the pie, and other companies tried to copy the game.
Hence, Doom clones.
The words "first person shooter" only became popular some years, and many Doom clones later.

When I read Duke Nukem would go 3D I actually thought negatively about it:
Come on! Are they serious, yet ANOTHER Doom clone? Why is Apogee doing this to that little platformer guy?
Of course that was before I read some of the reviews and got somewhat curious myself.
A 99-or-so% crashed download (ARGH!), and a looong second, complete download of the shareware later, and I was completely sold.

Best Doom clone ever, and obviously much more than that.

StixnStonz · 08-27-2008, 02:40 PM

im used to duke on the n64, the music seems weird to me i hope i can turn it off but even if i cant i still cant wait!

kp1197 · 08-27-2008, 06:02 PM

I second that. Does 3DR has the original 3d models or clay sculptures? And which *did* they use? I've always been curious how they made the Duke Nukem 3d enemies. If 3d realms still has the original 3d models, could they give them to the HRP community?

Retodon8 · 08-27-2008, 06:35 PM

See the link I gave in my earlier post.
There are more renders if you browse through the gallery (check bread crumbs at the top).

Apparently the 3D models were made by Chuck Jones, or at least some of them.
I think the enemies were mostly based on virtual models.
The program is called Animation Master, by Hash, apparently.
Not sure if they sold a different program back in the day.
Hopefully somebody 3DR can shed some light.

TerminX · 08-27-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

No you're not. I personally never cared for the HRP. I prefer the original. To me (the gamer, not the 3DR person) the HRP changes the entire "feel".

I agree, actually. I think the HRP would be better if it was more consistent with the original game... if everything was the same palette, same overall quality, et cetera. It's too much of a mashup of random stuff for my tastes.

Retodon8: that's actually not the queen, it's a protector drone/newbeast. They were originally blue.

Steve · 08-27-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerminX

Retodon8: that's actually not the queen, it's a protector drone/newbeast. They were originally blue.

Well, you learn something new everyday!

Mr.Fibbles · 08-27-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp1197

If 3d realms still has the original 3d models, could they give them to the HRP community?

IIRC, the models used by 3DR as bases etc had (have) ridiculous poly counts. Poly counts that would need optimization to run through eduke32 without laging horribly. Rendered to 8-bit sprites they look like they may not have the number of polygons they do, but I think I remember there was discussion about this once: those models are comparable to modern game models as far as number of polygons and details.

There are quite a few inconsistencies in the HRP but the majority of the major models (monsters, weapons, and even the babes that are done) were done by a fairly small group of people. Of course, even then you can't keep consistency really well. Obviously though, the HRP is not "finished" like Duke3D and the XBLA version of Duke3D, which is what the IGN article was about.

Polishing a product I guess would include making everything consistent (ironing out those rough edges), wouldn't it? Maybe we should start renaming the HRP to "HRP Beta" so people realize that it really is a work in progress (despite the fact that I am pretty sure it is mentioned in the readme).

MegaMustaine · 08-27-2008, 08:01 PM

The biggest issue I have with the HRP is that it just changes the feel of the game. No matter how consistent it could be it just would not feel the same, and it doesn't. Don't get me wrong as I feel that the people involved with the HRP did a fantastic job and the textures and models are excellent. It is cool to mess with the HRP every now and again but if I'm in the mood for Duke 3D, there is no match for the original art and 8bit mode.

Weses · 08-27-2008, 11:34 PM

The comments that are following the review saying "They should've improved the graphics. I'm very disappointed" need to stop. Look at Doom on Xbox Live, it has the same graphics as the PC and people still play it and like it. I'm totally fine with this Duke Nukem 3D keeping the original graphics. It feels good to have a blast to the past with no changes but with added extras. I'm going to be very angry if a bunch of reviews start saying "Shame they couldn't improve the graphics for the 360". They need to look at other Xbox Live Arcade games. Most of them are old arcade games with the graphics not improved at all. Yet they're still great to play.

Freakin' IGN and their users need to understand that it's an old game like 90% of the other games on XBLA and that graphics aren't everything.

Retodon8 · 08-28-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerminX

Retodon8: that's actually not the queen, it's a protector drone/newbeast. They were originally blue.

Originally as in: blue sprites for palette shifting?
Or as in: they were planned to be blue in-game originally?
Also, are you sure?

The lady seems to have an extra set of scythe-like appendages in the new image.
Compare with the Queen, then with the offspring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fibbles

(despite the fact that I am pretty sure it is mentioned in the readme).

Like people ever read those.

TerminX · 08-28-2008, 01:03 AM

Yes, I am sure.

08-26-2008, 05:12 PM	#1
DerricktheW	IGN Hands On http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/902/902936p1.html With a good number of videos The only somewhat bad thing is he's constantly bitching about the graphics not being remade. Last edited by DerricktheW; 08-26-2008 at 05:20 PM.

08-26-2008, 05:29 PM	#2
alexgk	Re: IGN Hands On I like the blurry effect when you're hit __________________ Playable demo this year! Confirmed!!

08-26-2008, 08:33 PM	#6
d3ad connection	Re: IGN Hands On It seems like I'm the only one glad they kept the original graphics.

08-26-2008, 08:40 PM	#9
DerricktheW	Re: IGN Hands On Oh no, I was NEVER complaining about you guys using the original graphics. I was saying it was annoying that Hilary kept complaining about it not having a new look. I'm completely satisfied with a game that still stands the test of time, not a game sold on graphics. Personally, I didn't even like the makeover Bionic Commando received. It made bullets near invisible, making it hard to see them. Last edited by DerricktheW; 08-26-2008 at 08:42 PM.

08-26-2008, 09:20 PM	#11
MegaMustaine	Re: IGN Hands On I hate the HRP, and the original graphics are a must for me. The only thing I'm disappointed about is the wide screen. Other than that the port seems to be perfect. __________________ This signature is a 77/100!

08-27-2008, 12:19 AM	#12
Weses	Re: IGN Hands On I don't care about the graphics not changing and the screen not being very big. As long as it's Duke and I can seen whos ass I'm kicking, you have my buy. I play my 360 on my PC moniter anyway, shouldn't be that hard to see because I'm close enough.

08-27-2008, 04:35 AM	#14
Woutsie	Re: IGN Hands On Those vids are great!

08-27-2008, 07:13 AM	#15
Retodon8	Re: IGN Hands On I never tried the HRP, but part of the reason is that I expect to prefer the original stuff anyway. Sure, 3D enemies are cool, but they're made by different artists, who likely interpret a set of pixels differently than I would have, resulting in an enemy that doesn't look exactly right to me. Everybody has developed a personal look on the game for him-/herself. An official high res makeover might still have that problem. Just look at Diablo 3, where some fans disagree with the actual developers, even though that's how they see their universe themselves. Like George said, it would've been way too much work to redo everything anyway. I'll just play DNF for high res stuff. Speaking of 3D enemy models... The border around the viewport of the game, also the masthead for this subforum, seems to include a render of the original Queen 3D model. Does that mean 3DR still has those models? I found some DN3D and SW renders over at Hash.com, but this seems to be a different render of the Queen. That could mean the original models aren't lost (or that 3DR didn't upload all their renders there). __________________ Retodon8 Sheep happens! Last edited by Retodon8; 08-27-2008 at 07:16 AM. Reason: Found a link to the render after all

08-27-2008, 11:16 AM	#16
Mr.Fibbles	Re: IGN Hands On I enjoyed reading the comments on the IGN hands on. . .if nothing else it revealed the ignorance of some people there. Everyone knows DNF was never on the Doom engine. . . And why did he call Duke 3D a Doom clone? Two different engines, two very different stories. . .besides, Duke was around long before the Sarg. I think people under estimate how much work it is (would be) to update the graphics for Duke 3D. There really are 5000 graphics and they aren't simple graphics either. If I had a 360, I would get the game so I could do some MP with some friends with 360s. Of course, I don't have a 360 but I want one more than I did before. __________________ http://thaunandshad.com

08-27-2008, 01:22 PM	#17
Denz	Re: IGN Hands On I always played without the music in Duke 3D, and i must say with music it does not feel the same from seeing those videos. __________________ *crunchy superman said:* 10 years and two complete restarts - that's either one very effective filter, or a whole lotta shit. :D

08-27-2008, 02:40 PM	#21
StixnStonz	Re: IGN Hands On im used to duke on the n64, the music seems weird to me i hope i can turn it off but even if i cant i still cant wait! __________________ http://www.dreamsfade.com xbox live gamertag: Careful Line

08-27-2008, 06:02 PM	#22
kp1197	Re: IGN Hands On I second that. Does 3DR has the original 3d models or clay sculptures? And which did they use? I've always been curious how they made the Duke Nukem 3d enemies. If 3d realms still has the original 3d models, could they give them to the HRP community?

08-27-2008, 06:35 PM	#23
Retodon8	Re: IGN Hands On See the link I gave in my earlier post. There are more renders if you browse through the gallery (check bread crumbs at the top). Apparently the 3D models were made by Chuck Jones, or at least some of them. I think the enemies were mostly based on virtual models. The program is called Animation Master, by Hash, apparently. Not sure if they sold a different program back in the day. Hopefully somebody 3DR can shed some light. __________________ Retodon8 Sheep happens!

08-27-2008, 08:01 PM	#27
MegaMustaine	Re: IGN Hands On The biggest issue I have with the HRP is that it just changes the feel of the game. No matter how consistent it could be it just would not feel the same, and it doesn't. Don't get me wrong as I feel that the people involved with the HRP did a fantastic job and the textures and models are excellent. It is cool to mess with the HRP every now and again but if I'm in the mood for Duke 3D, there is no match for the original art and 8bit mode. __________________ This signature is a 77/100!

08-27-2008, 11:34 PM	#28
Weses	Re: IGN Hands On The comments that are following the review saying "They should've improved the graphics. I'm very disappointed" need to stop. Look at Doom on Xbox Live, it has the same graphics as the PC and people still play it and like it. I'm totally fine with this Duke Nukem 3D keeping the original graphics. It feels good to have a blast to the past with no changes but with added extras. I'm going to be very angry if a bunch of reviews start saying "Shame they couldn't improve the graphics for the 360". They need to look at other Xbox Live Arcade games. Most of them are old arcade games with the graphics not improved at all. Yet they're still great to play. Freakin' IGN and their users need to understand that it's an old game like 90% of the other games on XBLA and that graphics aren't everything. Last edited by Weses; 08-27-2008 at 11:40 PM.

08-28-2008, 01:03 AM	#30
TerminX	Re: IGN Hands On Yes, I am sure. __________________ EDuke32 \| Duke4.net forums, the largest Duke Nukem 3D community on the Internet Visit #eduke32 on irc.freenode.net!