Hit Detection in the game

Danule · 03-08-2008, 10:52 AM

just wanted to bring up a topic that ive been thinking about lately that i see is really missing in games, Will the computer AI react to where you shot them? it seems in most games (apart from resident evil 4) that when you shoot some one in the leg it does nothing to slow them down, id like to see some limping if some one was shot in the leg. or i would like to see them fling back a little if they are shot in the shoulder or something. that would make the game a lot more fun when shooting enemies i think. I know i herd George talking about taking limbs off people so maybe this IS in the game. i surely hope soooo.

jagguar20 · 03-08-2008, 01:02 PM

I hope that too!
Alien limb party time!

JobivanHiob · 03-08-2008, 01:09 PM

LIMBS and so? CONFIRMED!

If George enjoys it shooting baddies limbs off, it has to be satisfying!

03-08-2008, 01:57 PM

Yes good idea. And may be if you hit the enemy in the hand he drops the gun.

evanazzo · 03-08-2008, 02:33 PM

That would be awesome. RE is about the only series I've played with hit detection as described and it would be awesome in Duke

Kien · 03-08-2008, 05:12 PM

I remember Sin. You could not kill enemies bye shooting them in the legs.

Mr.Fibbles · 03-08-2008, 09:16 PM

If you blow of someone's legs, they will die. There is an artery there and they will bleed to death.

I remember that per-pixel detection is in. I think it was once said that you could blow off individual fingers. I can't remember when that was though.

peoplessi · 03-09-2008, 07:06 AM

I think we discussed in a similar thread, http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18479 . But was it confirmed? I don't think so. edit: wrong, indeed it was

Will it's graphic engine allow multiple shot zones like in SOF2?

GB: "This is more of a gameplay thing, than a graphics thing. But DNF has per pixel collision on characters."

JobivanHiob · 03-09-2008, 08:23 AM

your qoute is 5 years old

But I have a big question. Does per pixel collision on characters mean that you can make holes into these pixels???? Because Doom 3 haven't got real dismemberment

Please for George's sake

Danule · 03-09-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kien

I remember Sin. You could not kill enemies bye shooting them in the legs.

i always wanted that, maybe if you shoot them in the legs enough they fall to the floor and slowly bleed to death or something hahaha.

Danule · 03-09-2008, 09:43 AM

i also hope that blood that splatters around and bodies don't disappear. that would be great, at least maybe if you have the option if your hardware is good enough or something.

madhatter man · 03-09-2008, 10:06 AM

Resident evil: umbrella cronihicals had hit detection.

Nihilanth · 03-09-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

Does per pixel collision on characters mean that you can make holes into these pixels???? Because Doom 3 haven't got real dismemberment

That's because per pixel collision is not about dismemberment but about pixel-precise collision detection, as opposed to hitboxes. Basically bullets hit target when they actually hit the character pixels instead of hitting their hitbox, if I'm correct.

Danule · 03-09-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madhatter man

Resident evil: umbrella cronihicals had hit detection.

i tried playing that game. man that wii controller is a pain in the ass.

madhatter man · 03-09-2008, 04:23 PM

I found the wii controller to be better than the wii zapper while playing.

peoplessi · 03-10-2008, 04:19 AM

madhatter, I think most games have some sort of hit-detection, at least shooters

03-10-2008, 09:54 AM

Does anyone remembers Bushido Blade (or something like that)
When you hit someone on the leg, they actually couldn't walk anymore...
Sonething like this would be cool in a shooter like DN

Danule · 03-10-2008, 11:52 AM

never played that. but yeah man that would be sweet shoot them in the leg, and they limp around, or in the hand and they cant shoot you anymore or something.

froggerdonkey · 03-10-2008, 11:55 AM

If it's as detailed as SOF2 is for hit detection (fingers,eyes etc) along with all the different animations depending on where they get hit, it'll be awesome. Not that it wont be anyway.

peoplessi · 03-10-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sim2322

Does anyone remembers Bushido Blade (or something like that)
When you hit someone on the leg, they actually couldn't walk anymore...
Sonething like this would be cool in a shooter like DN

I remember that, truely unique game.

Malgon · 03-12-2008, 02:32 AM

I think it's a good system to have, since the enemy won't have one canned animation when getting shot, but will actually stumble if shot in the leg, or keel over if shot in the stomach and so on. I guess blowing off limbs will have the same effect too.

Angilion · 03-15-2008, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danule

i always wanted that, maybe if you shoot them in the legs enough they fall to the floor and slowly bleed to death or something hahaha.

Forget slowly - a thigh wound can kill you from blood loss in hardly any time, even if the shock doesn't. The femoral artery is huge, for a human artery, and humans pump blood around at startling rates. 6 litres a minute at rest is normal and your heartbeat can easily reach double your resting rate. A person could bleed to death in a a few minutes from a thigh wound, maybe sooner.

Antikorper · 03-15-2008, 08:48 AM

I hope you can crush enemies partly or in whole under falling stuff or by running over them with a car and the amount of crushed stuff would depend on how they get crushed.

Danule · 03-15-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angilion

Forget slowly - a thigh wound can kill you from blood loss in hardly any time, even if the shock doesn't. The femoral artery is huge, for a human artery, and humans pump blood around at startling rates. 6 litres a minute at rest is normal and your heartbeat can easily reach double your resting rate. A person could bleed to death in a a few minutes from a thigh wound, maybe sooner.

yeah thats what i meant by slow, compared to games now where they die instantly from getting shot in the legs.

Dimebog · 03-15-2008, 01:51 PM

Guys remember BLOOD? That game had per pixel shot detection, ie - it had true hitscan - your bullets went right through sprite transparency.

Talking about losing your limbs - Deus Ex, anyone?

jagguar20 · 03-15-2008, 04:34 PM

I would love to shot one of those fat hovering guys (the ones that whisper: executor! or something like that) and be able to get his belly riped and pieces of green meat and metal start falling down!

Nyteshadow · 03-16-2008, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimebog

Talking about losing your limbs - Deus Ex, anyone?

I remember that. Brings back some memories.
I want to see arms, legs, heads and other appendages blown off

Stevey Boy · 04-22-2008, 10:53 AM

Id like to see it so that you can blow the gun out of their hand, then when they run to get it you blast their legs out so they fall over, thatd keep me happy for ages

Alpha-One · 04-22-2008, 01:02 PM

the damage model should be like in KINGPIN-LIVE OF CRIME, with bullet holes in the bodys and so on...a little bit splatter like in condemned 1+2 or doom 3 would be great

Klaus Kinski · 04-22-2008, 03:23 PM

But the big question here is: will the point of impact influence the animation?
Blowing off a limb is easy but injuring one and having a completely new set of for erxample leg movement, maybe even entire body movement (as limping affects ore than just the legs), is a ompletely different thing. Limping means a least three times the animations for the legs movement. It's highly doubtful they do that for every enemy.

04-22-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus Kinski

But the big question here is: will the point of impact influence the animation?
.....
It's highly doubtful they do that for every enemy.

Although you must admit they had all the time in the world to work on it, well, I guess at least 3 years, such the bigger question is: how much of this time did 3DR invest into the animation department?

Klaus Kinski · 04-22-2008, 06:23 PM

Now you're being unfair! They switched engines.

The most important question is: Do we really need it?
Given the fact that DNF should be a fast paced, action focused FPS, I'd say no. Such a gimmick, and it would be nothing more in such a game, is not worth the effort and money. Save that for Splinter Cell or something similar. A game where it makes a real difference.

Ravey · 04-22-2008, 06:57 PM

I think hit detection works much better with human characters than aliens, like in Goldeneye it makes more sense to have humans react and have hit detection animations than it would to see another species have them. Maybe limping for the biped creatures though, or if creatures flee they would leave a blood trail behind them.

Danule · 04-22-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaus Kinski

Now you're being unfair! They switched engines.

The most important question is: Do we really need it?
Given the fact that DNF should be a fast paced, action focused FPS, I'd say no. Such a gimmick, and it would be nothing more in such a game, is not worth the effort and money. Save that for Splinter Cell or something similar. A game where it makes a real difference.

i think we need it, and i hope its implemented.

Ravey · 04-22-2008, 08:24 PM

It's better not to get stuck in 1996, although i'm all for older graphics I think the mechanics definately need to adapt in their own way.

Tim. Just Tim. · 04-22-2008, 08:41 PM

If DNF will truly be the most interactive game to date (and I sincerely hope that is what we're all waiting for), then the hit detection will also have to be way beyond anything we've ever seen before. Im expecting to be able to shoot out windows, break down doors, burn plants, break bottles, and all kinds of stuff like that. Heck even Duke3d had that stuff 10+ years ago. Of all this 'stuff' that we will be able to shoot, the enemies are by far the most important. I want to see as many different enemy deaths as there are pixels making up that enemy.

Ravey · 04-22-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha-One

The damage model should be like in Kingpin: Life of Crime, with bullet holes in the bodys and so on...a little bit splatter like in condemned 1+2 or doom 3 would be great.

I wouldn't mind something similar to the firework explosion effects in Kingpin either.

Klaus Kinski · 04-23-2008, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim. Just Tim.

I want to see as many different enemy deaths as there are pixels making up that enemy.

Ragdolls?
I don't think they make many custom death anymations anymore, not with ragdolls being standard right now.

vcatkiller · 04-23-2008, 03:29 AM

It would be cool if they could merge the two - custom death animations and ragdoll. Maybe something like intelligent wound clutching with the force applied to the location of the final hit causing the ragdoll to kick in after the final animation, instead of just whack dead flop.

Not sure on the math required behind it, but it could be interesting.

Tim. Just Tim. · 04-23-2008, 09:53 AM

Theres definetly lots of progress to be made in this area. Who says ragdolls and death animations cant be combined somehow? Or maybe a different technique altogether.
I personally like death animations better than ragdolls. Especially if each enemy has 20 different death animations, depending on the method of death. I think that Ive seen everything that ragdolls has to offer.
One thing Ive always hated about ragdolls is that your body seems to have infinite mass until you die. So if a grenade goes off under your feet and you survive, it doesnt affect you at all. But if that same grenade takes all of your HP, then you go flying across the map. In one piece. No good.

03-08-2008, 01:57 PM	#4
DukePatso Guest	Re: Hit Detection in the game Yes good idea. And may be if you hit the enemy in the hand he drops the gun.

03-10-2008, 09:54 AM	#17
sim2322 Guest	Re: Hit Detection in the game Does anyone remembers Bushido Blade (or something like that) When you hit someone on the leg, they actually couldn't walk anymore... Sonething like this would be cool in a shooter like DN

03-08-2008, 10:52 AM	#1
Danule	Hit Detection in the game just wanted to bring up a topic that ive been thinking about lately that i see is really missing in games, Will the computer AI react to where you shot them? it seems in most games (apart from resident evil 4) that when you shoot some one in the leg it does nothing to slow them down, id like to see some limping if some one was shot in the leg. or i would like to see them fling back a little if they are shot in the shoulder or something. that would make the game a lot more fun when shooting enemies i think. I know i herd George talking about taking limbs off people so maybe this IS in the game. i surely hope soooo. __________________ is it weird when a psychonaut plays psychonauts?

03-08-2008, 01:02 PM	#2
jagguar20	Re: Hit Detection in the game I hope that too! Alien limb party time!

03-08-2008, 01:09 PM	#3
JobivanHiob	LIMBS and so? CONFIRMED! If George enjoys it shooting baddies limbs off, it has to be satisfying! __________________ Stay up to date with http://dukewatch.blogspot.com for the UNEXPECTED and PREPARE YOURSELF for SHOCK and AWESOME on Penny Arcade EXPO from September 3-5! Onebullit: "If DNF comes out in 2010 i will buy 2 copies and send you one." pjVgt regading DNF at PAX:"I would seriously shit my pants and pre-order three copies - one will be sent to Jobi" Last edited by ADM; 03-08-2008 at 01:58 PM. Reason: merged posts.

03-08-2008, 02:33 PM	#5
evanazzo	Re: Hit Detection in the game That would be awesome. RE is about the only series I've played with hit detection as described and it would be awesome in Duke

03-08-2008, 05:12 PM	#6
Kien	Re: Hit Detection in the game I remember Sin. You could not kill enemies bye shooting them in the legs. __________________ I want protozoid slimers!

03-08-2008, 09:16 PM	#7
Mr.Fibbles	Re: Hit Detection in the game If you blow of someone's legs, they will die. There is an artery there and they will bleed to death. I remember that per-pixel detection is in. I think it was once said that you could blow off individual fingers. I can't remember when that was though. __________________ http://thaunandshad.com

03-09-2008, 07:06 AM	#8
peoplessi	Re: Hit Detection in the game I think we discussed in a similar thread, http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18479 . But was it confirmed? I don't think so. edit: wrong, indeed it was Will it's graphic engine allow multiple shot zones like in SOF2? GB: "This is more of a gameplay thing, than a graphics thing. But DNF has per pixel collision on characters." __________________ Duke Nukem Forever Who am I to judge? Last edited by peoplessi; 03-09-2008 at 07:08 AM.

03-09-2008, 08:23 AM	#9
JobivanHiob	Re: Hit Detection in the game your qoute is 5 years old But I have a big question. Does per pixel collision on characters mean that you can make holes into these pixels???? Because Doom 3 haven't got real dismemberment Please for George's sake __________________ Stay up to date with http://dukewatch.blogspot.com for the UNEXPECTED and PREPARE YOURSELF for SHOCK and AWESOME on Penny Arcade EXPO from September 3-5! Onebullit: "If DNF comes out in 2010 i will buy 2 copies and send you one." pjVgt regading DNF at PAX:"I would seriously shit my pants and pre-order three copies - one will be sent to Jobi"

03-09-2008, 09:43 AM	#11
Danule	Re: Hit Detection in the game i also hope that blood that splatters around and bodies don't disappear. that would be great, at least maybe if you have the option if your hardware is good enough or something. __________________ is it weird when a psychonaut plays psychonauts?

03-09-2008, 10:06 AM	#12
madhatter man	Re: Hit Detection in the game Resident evil: umbrella cronihicals had hit detection.

03-09-2008, 04:23 PM	#15
madhatter man	Re: Hit Detection in the game I found the wii controller to be better than the wii zapper while playing.

03-10-2008, 04:19 AM	#16
peoplessi	Re: Hit Detection in the game madhatter, I think most games have some sort of hit-detection, at least shooters __________________ Duke Nukem Forever Who am I to judge?

03-10-2008, 11:52 AM	#18
Danule	Re: Hit Detection in the game never played that. but yeah man that would be sweet shoot them in the leg, and they limp around, or in the hand and they cant shoot you anymore or something. __________________ is it weird when a psychonaut plays psychonauts?

03-10-2008, 11:55 AM	#19
froggerdonkey	Re: Hit Detection in the game If it's as detailed as SOF2 is for hit detection (fingers,eyes etc) along with all the different animations depending on where they get hit, it'll be awesome. Not that it wont be anyway.

03-12-2008, 02:32 AM	#21
Malgon	Re: Hit Detection in the game I think it's a good system to have, since the enemy won't have one canned animation when getting shot, but will actually stumble if shot in the leg, or keel over if shot in the stomach and so on. I guess blowing off limbs will have the same effect too. __________________ -Most wanted games: Doom 4, Tomb Raider, Beyond Good and Evil 2

03-15-2008, 08:48 AM	#23
Antikorper	Re: Hit Detection in the game I hope you can crush enemies partly or in whole under falling stuff or by running over them with a car and the amount of crushed stuff would depend on how they get crushed.

03-15-2008, 01:51 PM	#25
Dimebog	Re: Hit Detection in the game Guys remember BLOOD? That game had per pixel shot detection, ie - it had true hitscan - your bullets went right through sprite transparency. Talking about losing your limbs - Deus Ex, anyone? __________________ The Postmortem - a Blood and Blood II: The Chosen community.

03-15-2008, 04:34 PM	#26
jagguar20	Re: Hit Detection in the game I would love to shot one of those fat hovering guys (the ones that whisper: executor! or something like that) and be able to get his belly riped and pieces of green meat and metal start falling down!

04-22-2008, 10:53 AM	#28
Stevey Boy	Re: Hit Detection in the game Id like to see it so that you can blow the gun out of their hand, then when they run to get it you blast their legs out so they fall over, thatd keep me happy for ages

04-22-2008, 01:02 PM	#29
Alpha-One	Re: Hit Detection in the game the damage model should be like in KINGPIN-LIVE OF CRIME, with bullet holes in the bodys and so on...a little bit splatter like in condemned 1+2 or doom 3 would be great

04-22-2008, 03:23 PM	#30
Klaus Kinski	Re: Hit Detection in the game But the big question here is: will the point of impact influence the animation? Blowing off a limb is easy but injuring one and having a completely new set of for erxample leg movement, maybe even entire body movement (as limping affects ore than just the legs), is a ompletely different thing. Limping means a least three times the animations for the legs movement. It's highly doubtful they do that for every enemy. __________________ "Violence is stupid because an eye for an eye makes everyone blind." - jimbob "But hey when in doubt - Zombies!!!" - Kalki "OMG WTF BOO!!" - Aegeri

04-22-2008, 06:23 PM	#32
Klaus Kinski	Re: Hit Detection in the game Now you're being unfair! They switched engines. The most important question is: Do we really need it? Given the fact that DNF should be a fast paced, action focused FPS, I'd say no. Such a gimmick, and it would be nothing more in such a game, is not worth the effort and money. Save that for Splinter Cell or something similar. A game where it makes a real difference. __________________ "Violence is stupid because an eye for an eye makes everyone blind." - jimbob "But hey when in doubt - Zombies!!!" - Kalki "OMG WTF BOO!!" - Aegeri

04-22-2008, 06:57 PM	#33
Ravey	Re: Hit Detection in the game I think hit detection works much better with human characters than aliens, like in Goldeneye it makes more sense to have humans react and have hit detection animations than it would to see another species have them. Maybe limping for the biped creatures though, or if creatures flee they would leave a blood trail behind them.

04-22-2008, 08:24 PM	#35
Ravey	Re: Hit Detection in the game It's better not to get stuck in 1996, although i'm all for older graphics I think the mechanics definately need to adapt in their own way.

04-22-2008, 08:41 PM	#36
Tim. Just Tim.	Re: Hit Detection in the game If DNF will truly be the most interactive game to date (and I sincerely hope that is what we're all waiting for), then the hit detection will also have to be way beyond anything we've ever seen before. Im expecting to be able to shoot out windows, break down doors, burn plants, break bottles, and all kinds of stuff like that. Heck even Duke3d had that stuff 10+ years ago. Of all this 'stuff' that we will be able to shoot, the enemies are by far the most important. I want to see as many different enemy deaths as there are pixels making up that enemy.

04-23-2008, 03:29 AM	#39
vcatkiller	Re: Hit Detection in the game It would be cool if they could merge the two - custom death animations and ragdoll. Maybe something like intelligent wound clutching with the force applied to the location of the final hit causing the ragdoll to kick in after the final animation, instead of just whack dead flop. Not sure on the math required behind it, but it could be interesting.

04-23-2008, 09:53 AM	#40
Tim. Just Tim.	Re: Hit Detection in the game Theres definetly lots of progress to be made in this area. Who says ragdolls and death animations cant be combined somehow? Or maybe a different technique altogether. I personally like death animations better than ragdolls. Especially if each enemy has 20 different death animations, depending on the method of death. I think that Ive seen everything that ragdolls has to offer. One thing Ive always hated about ragdolls is that your body seems to have infinite mass until you die. So if a grenade goes off under your feet and you survive, it doesnt affect you at all. But if that same grenade takes all of your HP, then you go flying across the map. In one piece. No good.