Duke Nukem Forever : Saturation Enhancement

[Commando Nukem]

http://www.duke4.net/images/news/dnfthumb_feb15_08.jpg
http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/screenshots/pdm/40262709.jpg
http://images.slashdot.org/articles/06/07/prey4.jpg

What do these three images have in common? Three different games. Yes. Three First person shooters. Yes. All sorta... kinda...desaturated. Eh?

Now im usually the last to criticise of "small" things when it comes to Duke Nukem Forever. Any media is good media right now. However as a few have stated. The next gen "style" seems to be uh...Grey. A lot of drab, desaturated and downright DREADFUL feeling palletes. Odd turqoise gree, blue grey, white grey, grey-grey brown-grey. Everything is muddied with a little grey on the RGB scale. What happend to 255 0 0, 0 255 0, and 0 0 255 is what I want to know. Solid oranges and reds, and brilliant vibrant colors seem to have dissappeared. Not to mention red blooded flesh tones. Why does everyone look like a zombie now? Why?

Well, those of us who feel Duke Nukem Forever needs to break this trend have been thinking im sure... and well after reading a post in another thread here a few minutes ago I went and took a few images related to Duke Nukem Forever and decided to show you just a quick fix for this. I used paint shop pros "effects--->Enhance Photo--->Automatic Saturation Enhancement". It took about two seconds to set this image up.



Left to right:

Left: Undoctored Cycloid.
Right: Enhanced Cycloid with minor spottage of red glow on the claws, arm and saturation enhancement.

Left: Undoctored Duke.
Right: Saturation enhancement, and one level of sharpening.

Left: The classic Duke3D image. The left is desatured.
Right: The normal image.

Should 3DR increase the color in the game to give it that life it needs?

[JobivanHiob]

wow awesome, now I like the pics even more. The enhancements are really great!!!
this little editing gives a totally different vibe. I like ist very much. Wonder why 3D Realms goes with the typical doom 3 color palette?!

[Phayzon]

I really dont know, while It'd be nice for DNF to break the grey trend, the colors look like what bloom effects do, which i hate with a burning passion.
Basically, I dont want a grey DNF, but Id rather have that than a bloomy DNF

[sRfuzzyLogik]

I'd wait until you see images of a location with lots of light and color before I start complaining about the color. Most of it is probably done by the location/lighting of the scene. It'd look pretty stupid with a vibrant Duke in a very dreary location. Now... inside a flashy Vegas hotel? different situation, and we've yet to see any pics like that.

I have to admit the enhanced pics look cool and alive, but I wouldn't make what we've seen a representation of the entire game...

[Komb.at]

I'd appreciate a choice of "rendering style" like Farcry had. That quite an easy option to make that satisfies a lot of different tastes ...

[Commando Nukem]

Originally Posted by sRfuzzyLogik

I'd wait until you see images of a location with lots of light and color before I start complaining about the color. Most of it is probably done by the location/lighting of the scene. It'd look pretty stupid with a vibrant Duke in a very dreary location. Now... inside a flashy Vegas hotel? different situation, and we've yet to see any pics like that.

I have to admit the enhanced pics look cool and alive, but I wouldn't make what we've seen a representation of the entire game...

mmmm no... What im talking about has to do with the skins and textures. This problem has been in nearly every next gen game, and it something I personally adjusted for myself in DooM 3 after I played through it once.

Even in the scene with the flashing lights from the teaser, or the shot of the Pigcop, the creatures themselves lack flesh tones and color. They look dead and dreary.

For instance, im preparing another image based on the octa, pig and, trooper. The Octabrains brain is much more vibrant and looks great enhanced. It all blends together. Some call this "style" but it just looks kinda bland to me.

[Mr.Fibbles]

I can see what you mean. The old pure hue colors are missing in some of the modern shooters. I wouldn't say it is completely lacking though.
You have to give leeway for these games based on ships and in space. The metallic and cinder block feel is what makes it "sci-fi" for some people. Of course, bright colors and energy also add to the feel. I think it comes down to environment really. Fighting in a ship should feel like you are constrained a bit. Real Space ships aren't roomy by any standards due to all the machinery and such keeping you alive on them.

[JobivanHiob]

Originally Posted by Komb.at

I'd appreciate a choice of "rendering style" like Farcry had. That quite an easy option to make that satisfies a lot of different tastes ...

brilliant idea, an vibrant color mode for the oldschool gamers!

[sRfuzzyLogik]

are we forgetting that this was from a teaser trailer and not a trailer, quite possible done in said manner to keep most detail out but to just give a good idea as to what to expect? All i'm sayin' is that i'm going to reserve my judgment on it's "color" (which can be drastically different under different lighting conditions) until we see a real trailer or some hi-res ingame SS's in locations where it's not dark/smoky with fairly "simple" lighting...

again, the enhanced pics look great - and I wouldn't doubt that in fully-lit locations the game looks like that.

[WoodenSword]

i voted for yes.....the adjusted pics look excellent...but...

let's leave this "tiny" little detail for DNF 2!!!!!!

....

for the sake of all of us......!!!

[Commando Nukem]

Additionally...



As you can see here I also did a little artistic change with the eyes. Thats not really important though. You can see the difference in the SKIN the deeper browns and such give a better contrast and don't make everything look as muddied and contrastless

Originally Posted by WoodenSword

i voted for yes.....the adjusted pics look excellent...but...

let's leave this "tiny" little detail for DNF 2!!!!!!

Why the wait? This isn't a huge change. Its adjustments to skins and lighting really. Take a few hours.

[Sweden]

I voted no! Because i like the way it looks like right now.

I myself think that the new duke nukem game will have a darker, more horror thing in the game while kicking alien ass, while you still can have fun with loads of diffrent colors in las vegas and i think that will be enough for our eyes.

And if there is a area 51 i dont want some shiny place with vegas lightning around. I want military police, or aliens looking dark and scary in some sort of way. And the area itself should just give u the feeling about conspiricy and secret stuff. Maybe someone get my point. I belive this is how the game is being built. Both shiny and totaly fun but also with scary/dark tone.

This is just my thoughts

[Suppressor1]

I neither like the red eyes nor the bloom effects.

[sRfuzzyLogik]

I like the first ones more - but again, we'll have to wait and see what the finished project looks like!

[Waiter]

Originally Posted by Commando Nukem

As you can see here I also did a little artistic change with the eyes. Thats not really important though.

No, I hope so, because it sux. The rest of it looks good although I think you've taken it too far. Would be better somewhere in between.

I belong to the people who want a colorful DNF. I think it's because I've always seen Duke and the games as kind of deliberately cartoonish rather than being as realistic as the tech allows.

I'm not really a fan of just enhancing the colours either on the other hand, I think it's much more a question of light and color than of saturation.

[Commando Nukem]

Originally Posted by Suppressor1

I neither like the red eyes nor the bloom effects.

I did no blooming. I merely upped the saturation. All the red eyes are here is just a red smudge I put over it. Like nearly all the enemies in Duke3D.

Originally Posted by sRfuzzyLogik

I like the first ones more - but again, we'll have to wait and see what the finished project looks like!

I guess we will indeed.

Originally Posted by Waiter

No, I hope so, because it sux. The rest of it looks good although I think you've taken it too far. Would be better somewhere in between.

I belong to the people who want a colorful DNF. I think it's because I've always seen Duke and the games as kind of deliberately cartoonish rather than being as realistic as the tech allows.

I'm not really a fan of just enhancing the colours either on the other hand, I think it's much more a question of light and color than of saturation.

Give me the skin files from a standard DNF enemy and i'll do it the right way! Right here its just a basic one size fits all adjustment. Its really about editing the characters skin and breathing life into it. The enviroments are basically impossible to guess at this point since its all blurred to kingdom come.

Well heck, its not even that Duke was cartoonish, its just that this "Style" doesn't fit 50% of the look of reality. I've never seen real life as bland as some of the games try to make it look in the attempt at being realistic. DNF better not be a DooM3 or a Silent Hill or a Condemned where its all about the "dark mood". Duke3D had a few errie parts. But nothing that rang as OHMYGODHORROR.

Like I said, its just a one size fits all attempt at showing how a little injection of color and contrast could really liven up the characters and the enviroments. Grey should be grey. But the red and blue of Dukes shirt and jeans should be red and friggin blue. Vibrant like in reality. Wood should look like wood. Too oftend in games lately its all about this dull look.

The last game I played that really felt about right visually was Half Life 2. It had contrasts and color while still maintaining a "hyper realistic" vibe.

[Daedolon]

If DNF looks anything like Doom3 or Prey, I'm probably not going to finish it.

[Duke's New Chainsaw]

What was wrong with Prey? That game was pretty colorful.

I agree with this thread, though. I noticed the color seemed pretty meh. Even the EDF are grey.

But maybe the game coloring is not as the video/pics lead us to believe.

[Caine]

i have to admit that many games look the same colourwise, too many are dark, blank etc. duke was alaways colourful and i hope duke 4ever will be as colourful as the 2001 trailer, best stuff !

[Little Conqueror]

DNF is already more colorful than most of the games that have been released lately. While it's true that games as a whole are desaturating everything to the extreme, I feel that the saturation that's in the example pics is over the top and detracts from the environment.

[peoplessi]

I'm with him ^

[WoodenSword]

Originally Posted by Commando Nukem

Additionally...


Why the wait? This isn't a huge change. Its adjustments to skins and lighting really. Take a few hours.

I'd rather have DNF a few hours earlier....thank you! I can't wait any longer!!!

Seriously now, i am no expert here but i really doubt that the designers haven't thought about this up to now (10 years of development-> shifting engines doesn't matter for this issue). I believe it is a conscious decision.

And i really doubt that this is only personal taste and a matter of a few hours.It is not only skin and textures.Decisions like that can affect the whole graphic balance of the game and in some cases even gameplay,atmosphere,music.

[themetal]

duke's model could use a little color to it, but I voted no because I think it should only be limited to duke, aliens are supposed to be ugly scary ******s, not very colorful so.

[Malgon]

I voted yes on what's been shown so far, but to be fair it isn't representative of the final product, and we have seen no environmental shots to suggest that there maybe a lot of colour (Vegas obviously). A bit of colour would help it to differentiate from what games are doing these days, but we've only seen 1 teaser trailer.

Basically as long as it takes a nice middle ground of bleak muted/bright colourful then I'll be alright with it.

[jagguar20]

Vivid colors for the win!!

But I think that it should have the system that Gears of War had: You could choose between "dead gray", gray, or hue colors.

[Malgon]

Yeah I forgot to mention that I think different render modes are a nice idea too. I don't know how hard it is to implement though.

[jagguar20]

Maybe they take 10 years! joke

[fast-1]

does it matter.

[Commando Nukem]

Originally Posted by fast-1

does it matter.

This is a big part of the experience. So yes, it does. Dreary grey graphics can damage the fun factor.

[Neptune]

where'd that image of the cycloid emperor come from?

[rockmanekuzu8]

Originally Posted by Sweden

I voted no! Because i like the way it looks like right now.

I myself think that the new duke nukem game will have a darker, more horror thing in the game while kicking alien ass, while you still can have fun with loads of diffrent colors in las vegas and i think that will be enough for our eyes.

And if there is a area 51 i dont want some shiny place with vegas lightning around. I want military police, or aliens looking dark and scary in some sort of way. And the area itself should just give u the feeling about conspiricy and secret stuff. Maybe someone get my point. I belive this is how the game is being built. Both shiny and totaly fun but also with scary/dark tone.

This is just my thoughts

Well said dude, most likely when we see the Trailer we should be able to get a better judgment for the game's looks later.

[LeadBullet]

All the screenshots\video released so far seemed to be in pretty dim lighting.

I think some of the issue with newer games is the lighting style they use is more realistic and more expensive, and there are performance hits if polygons are being lit by multiple lights at once. So because of that I think it forces them to try to make lights not "touch" which ends up giving us darker environments. Then real-time shadows brings things down more.

If you look at the full size capture from the teaser video, and look up near the very top of his body where all the bright lights are, there is a good variety of color there. The only problem is color isn't going to show up much in the darker lighting. Since we haven't seen any bright environments yet, I'd imagine thats why we aren't seeing much color either.

The only image that really seemed to improve from the edits in my opinion was the Duke3D boxart which actually was lacking in color for some reason.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Neptune

where'd that image of the cycloid emperor come from?

It's in an article in the next Dallas Business Journal (and can be found, along with discussion, here.)

I really like the touchups on the Octabrain and the Cycloid Emperor himself (not the backgrounds) and I agree that a bit more color couldn't hurt here.

Ofcourse they shouldn't go overboard, because having dreary looking stuff can add to the whole 'deserted planet' feel, if 3DR so chooses to use that. And ofcourse, having to much color will make every Next-gen-tech-fanboy cry 'kiddie' which will probably hurt sales

[Xavier]

People are weird, some people complain of how Duke looks and now the colors? I say let them just finish the game, do you want them to change what they got and have to test through the game to check if everything looks good, though they wouldn't really have to in the colors case...

Anyways, in my opinion, its their game let them build it, if they feel like giving duke a big bushy beard and a backwards baseball cap and they say its Duke it is Duke cause its their game [though in everyones opinion that sure as hell is not Duke anymore ], and I'd like to say 'When It's Done' make all the changes you damn well please.

But yeah i agree that the colors aren't too colorful, but there is going to be a ton of mods for such things [most likely] and i don't care what the final looks like as long as it's out [except that bushy beard thing that would kinda spoil the game lol], but yeah i'm just annoyed at people thinking such tiny things need changed when they are probably going to be modded anyways .

PS - Ignore me .

[rockmanekuzu8]

WHATEVER guys, George knows what he's doing. 3DR will deliver a super killer game at the end, keep the faith. Don't judge a book by its cover until you have seen the rest. We have not seen the rest yet, then we can decide. Thanks.

[Nihilanth]

I voted no, because I like the grey look. I even played Far Cry in Cold render mode, because it felt a lot more realistic to me.

[GOK]

I vote no - we have only seen a few selected screens that give us just a hint of what the game may or may not be.

Such a silly thread.

[ryche]

I can see differences in the pictures. I like the saturation changes in the pictures but since we don't know what the released game will look like by then I put indifferent.

[HazMat]

I would like it if the eyes were slightly glowing on all the aliens presented so far.

[X-Vector]

The enhancements in the first picture are nice.
Still not what I'd want the game to look like, but better than the originals (except for the Duke3D image of course).

The additions to the teaser screengrabs look silly.